Beginner - LOTS OF QUESTIONS!! Plz + thx :)

littlemissXsunshine

Hey all!! This is probably gonna be a long post.
So, I just started swimming 4 weeks ago. And exercising. I had not really exercised most of my life before that. Needless to say, I do not have much stamina. Regardless, I have been at the pool 1hr+ a day/7days a week for the last 4 weeks (on weekends I just fool around with my 5y/o daughter). I did not even really know how to swim. I couldn't swim underwater without plugging my nose or swim more than 25m without stopping completely out of breath, but I have been teaching myself a lot! I decided to learn Breast and I am *pretty* good at it (some random coach at the pool today said I had "a great whip-kick" hahaha). Last week I just started teaching myself Front Crawl/Freestyle. I have a really hard time with the breathing, but I am getting better. I am still winded after 25m though. But I can now swim 100m of Breast without stopping! Woooo!

Does anybody have any tips for for Free breathing and pull? That same coach said my Free was "smooth", but I don't feel like I'm doing it right at all. I think the breathing is the most important part right now, though. Also, I want to learn how to flip turn. I tried to do a somersault in the pool the other day to get started and I just got like a gallon of water up my sinuses. It huuuuuuurrrrrt. Also, I have applied at my university's fitness center for private lessons, but I haven't heard back yet. And unfortunately I live really far out in the middle of nowhere and there is not a Master's Club anywhere near me :frown:

I came up with this Workout Program and managed to complete it today in about an hour (which is a HUGE achievement for me lol) Does it look good?:

Warm-Up: (300m)
100m Free \
100m Back (slow)
100m Breast /

Drill: (200m)
50m Pull (breast)
50m Kick (breast)
(x2)

Main Set: (500m)
100m breast (5s rest)
25m free (10s rest)
75m free (30s)
50m free (15s)
50m free (15s)
75m free (30s)
25m free (10s)
100m breast (1min)

Laps: (300m)
25m Free x 12 (5s)

Cool Down: (200m)
100m x2 Breast (slow)

Total: 1500m


I really really love swimming, and I'm so glad to have found something that I enjoy so much. I've seen a lot of improvement already and it is so motivating. I have been to the gym EVERY SINGLE DAY for four weeks, and I WANT to. I'm so excited about swimming. Anyway, I really appreciate any input from you guys!!! :happy:

holly1283

Sounds as if you are off to a good start. If possible it might help your technic to get a few lessons or that helping person at the pool to make you more efficient. You've got good distance already. WOW The breathing can be practiced at the side of the pool by extending your arms, put your face in the water looking down at the bottom, blow out all your air bubbles in the water, turn your head to the side that you feel more comfortable with, breath in but don't over inflate your lungs, and start all over again. Do it slowly and practice, practice , practice. It is the best exercise IMO. Glad to have you join us.

Macstraw

What Holly said about free breathing is right on the money. In addition to practicing it while holding on to the wall, you can also practice it while using a kickboard - thereby killing 2 birds with 1 stone. If you use the kickboard, do 1 lap working on breathing to 1 side & the next lap working on breathing to the other (bi-lateral breathing is the most efficient way to go). Hold the kickboard so that 1 hand is at the top of it & the other is at the bottom. You'll be turning your head to the same side as the hand that's at the bottom of the kickboard - this simulates 1 hand being out over your head & the other arm back as though you just pulled with it. When you turn your head, think about turning your chin to your shoulder. This will help you concentrate on not lifting your head up before you turn to breathe. The movement should go from looking pretty much at the bottom of the pool to looking to the side without lifting the head, it should be a similar rotation to sitting in a chair & just turning your head to the side. Another big key to free breathing is controlling your breathing. This means not over-inflating your lungs & trying to expel the air rapidly - that's similar to making yourself hyperventilate. Instead, fill your lungs with enough air to get to the next breath & then expel it at a consistent rate. You can't control the breathing if you don't have enough time to take it in & expel it without having to rush to do it.....

The same breathing theory applies to flip turns or somersaults in the water - don't over breathe. To prevent the water from going up into your sinuses, you need to block it from getting through. Do this by putting air in your nose by breathing out through it, but not very hard. Don't think of it so much as actually breathing out, but think of it more as just setting an air block to keep the water from getting in. Also, remember that doing a somersault from a standing position in the water is probably a bit more of a "violent" (for lack of a better term) movement. It's much smoother doing it from already being in motion & will not pound the water into your nose quite the same way......

littlemissXsunshine

Thanks!! That all is great. I have tried grabbing the wall and doing the kickboard thing, but I have found that I made more progress just doing the laps. It's not exactly the same motion I think, because your body is sort of tied down on the wall, whereas when you're swimming your body is constantly moving. But I think what you said about controlled breathing is my problem. Because it's not that I'm over-exerting myself. As soon as I stop, my breathing is back to normal. I think I still have a bit of that panic about having my face in the water, and sometimes I still get water in my nose when I turn my head (which doesn't help the panic). I think you're right though about trying to rush it too much. Whenever I first start a lap I am calm and consistent and slow, and every stroke and breath is awesome, then I get halfway down the pool and I start to strain and I think I start to inhale too much too fast. I've been trying to tell myself "just keep breathing, just keep breathing" when I start to feel like that, because my inclination will be to jump up to the surface lol.

For the somersault/flip turn thing...I think that yeah...I may have just tried to hold my breath in which meant that I wasn't trying to keep water out. I've been trying to do the turtle float/mushroom float or whatever it's called. When I lean over really far though I feel like crazy pressure on my head...idk why.

Thank you both so much for your advice!!! I'm so glad to have found this group!! :happy:

mcruzin91

I would also add to rotate your hips whne you turn to breathe. It helps keep everything align and for me personally keeps me from spashling water into my nose during my pull. Whichever side you are breathing on open your hips to that side. Don't rotate so much that you turn over though. Also experiment with how many strokes you take between each breathe. I know the standard is 3 strokes, alternating breathing sides. But it's not a one size fits all. I started off with 2 strokes per breathe for a while, and now my standard is 5 pulls to 1 breathe on distance swims. Some of the best swimmers I've met use 2 strokes/breathe. Using less strokes per breathe allows you to relax and concentrate on technique while also building lung capacity instead of suffocating for air in between pulls.

smm773

Welcome to the group! I know that before I started with a trainer, I actually watched a lot of youtube videos on technique and strokes, etc. it was really helpful for me. i am sure i looked kinda of funny practicing sitting in front of my computer, but it definitely helped when i make the leap to the water. now i have a trainer that i meet with once a month, she evaluates my progress, and then gives me a new plan to work on for the next month.

the breathing was the hardest, but once i figured it out, i am doing well. she has me doing drills where i breathe every three strokes. pacing is very critical i think, and avoids the OMG i held my breath too long and now i think i'm going to drown moments.

I also have another drill that's helped where I use a barbell. both hand out in front holding barbell. pull with one arm, and rotate to one side and breathe. face goes back in, pull with other arm, rotate, and breathe. i do 200m of these.

hope it helps. but most of all, great that you are getting in the water and working on it!

littlemissXsunshine

mcruzin91 it's really funny that you say that, because today for the first time I tried changing my strokes/breath. I was actually starting to feel really comfortable breathing (YAYY!!), so I decided to try to hold it longer. I did....I guess it would be... every 4th stroke?? (Like... Right/Breathe - Left - Right - Left - Right/Breathe - Left...etc.) Always on the right side...but it felt great!!! Not constantly breathing, so I had more opportunity to think about my pull and kick. I averaged around 25 strokes per lap, which I guess is not great, but I felt like I was cruising right along, barely getting tired!!! :happy: It was awesome!!

How many strokes do you guys get per lap?? I want to kind of gauge what my goal should be haha.

smm773 I have been watching lots and lots and lots of youtube videos I practice strokes at the computer, I even practiced breathing in the tub once. lol. I think I need to find some more about freestyle pull. And yeah, the breathing has absolutely been the hardest part!!! I feel like once I start to feel comfortable in breathing, no matter what stroke, I make progress all the time.

Thanks again. You guys are awesome! I really hope I can meet for private lessons soon. I feel like I'll make a lot of progress.

Macstraw

I go about 22 strokes, & I've always been a distance swimmer as opposed to a being a sprinter, so my strokes are longer. I pull long, all the way down to my hip & reach out over my head instead of dropping my hand in right over it with my arm bent. I am a 4 stroke breather (always breathing to the left side), as I go back to before there was a real push for alternate side breathing. I can breathe to the other side if really pressed to, but this old dog is not too concerned with that "new" trick as 4 strokes per breath seems to work really well for me.....

A little test you can give yourself to show as a practical example how moving too quickly in the water with your head has an affect on you is this. Stand in the water & bend your legs, lowering yourself until your head is completely submerged. The first time, stand up slowly & you will just feel the water roll gently off you. You'll feel nice & relaxed because it's not a big deal. Do it again, but this time come up out of the water as quickly as you can. You'll feel how coming up quickly draws the water up with you & actually keeps it up around your face longer. You'll see how this can make you feel like you don't have enough time to breathe. The same thing happens when you're breathing while swimming - no matter the stroke - because turning your head (or lifting it for breast or fly) quickly draws the water with your face in the same fashion while you're trying to breathe. Conversely, a nice relaxed & controlled head movement when breathing allows the water to roll off you & you can take a nice relaxed breath....

As for turning your hips while doing freestyle, if you do it only turn them slightly because it's too easy to get in the habit of turning too far, causing your body to roll from side to side. When swimming freestyle, you're looking for efficiency & your focus should be on using as straight a line as possible moving forward. If you roll side to side your energy is going out & up instead of propelling you forward as well as it should be. In that same vein, be careful how far you turn your head to breathe. One of the biggest things I see with the kids I coach & people at my gym is that they turn their heads so far that they're looking at the sky (or ceiling when indoors). They think it buys them extra breathing time, but it's unnecessary to turn that far. Again, it throws all your energy out t the sides & hinders your forward progress. Think about turning so that your chin touches your shoulder, you'll get plenty of time to breathe if you start your head turn as the arm on the side your breathing to pulls down. You can keep your head turned to the side like that until that same arm comes over the top, it will actually trigger your turn back into the water so that you're looking at the bottom if you need that much time. If you control how much air you're taking in instead of trying to draw in as much as you possibly can you'll have plenty of time to get more than enough air.....

littlemissXsunshine

So you know you're doing something wrong when you can swim 2x 400m breasts with only a short break and not feel overly tired, but can barely swim 50m of free without getting totally winded. I asked the lifeguard today and she said I'm over-rotating and that I should try bilateral breathing. Girl, if you think I'm over-rotating on my right side, you should see the left. I'm practically trying to climb out of the water. I don't know what to do about that. I did like 500m of just 25s practicing breathing and strokes with a kickboard and made no progress.

Macstraw

Look at the last paragraph in my last post on this thread. You don't need to turn too far to have enough time to take your breath, you'll have plenty of time to breath just turning so that your chin goes to your shoulder. It'll make your stroke more efficient, which means you'll go a little further with each stroke, which means less strokes per lap & not being as winded. You can practice the head turn while working with a kickboard, it'll give you a good amount of time to concentrate on it without having to pay attention to the mechanics of the stroke & that repetition will help it become more natural.....

smm773

Someone wise also told me that if you turn your head as if you are looking at your armpit too, that helps with the breathing. I have become less worried about how much I am breathing and more focused on being steady. i used to think i would win a prize if i held my breath and only breathed every so often . . .but i find steady wins the race.

hang in there . . you are doing great just by showing up and trying to improve yourself! give yourself some credit girl!

Ms_J1

I just wanted to add a couple things. It probably goes without saying, but when exhale always exhale through your nose. One benefit in exhaling through your nose is it keeps the water out when you learn to do flip turns.

Also, don't exhale completely. You want to keep some air in your lungs. If you ever pay attention to your breathing when you're sitting in a chair nice and relaxed, you'll notice your body doesn't exhale all the way. The same should be true when swimming. But for some reason, some beginner swimmers tend to blow out all their at once and when you blow out all your air, your lungs immediately want to inhale which throws off your breathing timing. And then when you wait to inhale depending on where you are in your stroke before your next available breath (if you can get past that uncomfortable I'm-dying feeling), your lungs will want to take too much air in on your next breath. And it just builds up from there and you get more and more tired because you've taken on too much oxygen and can't get rid of CO2 fast enough. You'll probably notice this problem more on flip turns when you get there.

Macstraw

Also, don't exhale completely. You want to keep some air in your lungs. If you ever pay attention to your breathing when you're sitting in a chair nice and relaxed, you'll notice your body doesn't exhale all the way. The same should be true when swimming. But for some reason, some beginner swimmers tend to blow out all their at once and when you blow out all your air, your lungs immediately want to inhale which throws off your breathing timing. And then when you wait to inhale depending on where you are in your stroke before your next available breath (if you can get past that uncomfortable I'm-dying feeling), your lungs will want to take too much air in on your next breath. And it just builds up from there and you get more and more tired because you've taken on too much oxygen and can't get rid of CO2 fast enough. You'll probably notice this problem more on flip turns when you get there.

That's what gives you that feeling of hyperventilating, because that's basically what you're causing to happen to yourself. It makes you feel panicky & that only makes you try to breathe in & out as much as possible even more.....

littlemissXsunshine

Also, don't exhale completely. You want to keep some air in your lungs. If you ever pay attention to your breathing when you're sitting in a chair nice and relaxed, you'll notice your body doesn't exhale all the way. The same should be true when swimming. But for some reason, some beginner swimmers tend to blow out all their at once and when you blow out all your air, your lungs immediately want to inhale which throws off your breathing timing. And then when you wait to inhale depending on where you are in your stroke before your next available breath (if you can get past that uncomfortable I'm-dying feeling), your lungs will want to take too much air in on your next breath. And it just builds up from there and you get more and more tired because you've taken on too much oxygen and can't get rid of CO2 fast enough. You'll probably notice this problem more on flip turns when you get there.

That's what gives you that feeling of hyperventilating, because that's basically what you're causing to happen to yourself. It makes you feel panicky & that only makes you try to breathe in & out as much as possible even more.....

I try really hard to constantly breathe out in a steady pace, and then I sort of blow the rest out of my nose when I come up so that I don't get water in my nose when I'm turning. I still get that sort of panicky feeling though sometimes, especially if I try breathing on my left side. I did 600m of freestyle drills today JUST practicing rotation and breathing. It's really slow, but I think I'm making progress.

And yeah, I've been realizing that the way I turn my head to breathe is sort of like....up and not back? If that makes sense? Like I'm trying to look at the wall like everyone says, but I think I'm still trying to lift my head too much and end up turning my body a lot to compensate and lowering my hips and etc. etc. I've been trying to sort of pull my jaw towards my shoulder more and not lift the rest of my head. If that makes sense lol. When I try it on the left side though I often end up sucking in water.

littlemissXsunshine

Aha...btw....I have been COMPLETELY exhausted the past few days. Like. Can't even stay awake at work. Is it because I am over-working myself? Or is it just because I never really exercised before and now I'm doing 1-2hrs 7 days a week and my body is really out of shape and having a hard time keeping up lol? I don't know how any of that works lol. I really don't want to slow down or take a break as I am really enjoying the swimming. Also, I've been getting weird bruises on the insides of my biceps. They're really lightly colored and don't hurt. I don't know haha.

ProfessorOwl

That's a lot. I might not hurt to take a day off. I find 60-90 minutes for 5-6 days a week is plenty. I get seriously burned out after a while otherwise.

Ms_J1

I swim 45-75 minutes a day, 5 days a week, sometimes 6. You need to give your body at least one day off a week, especially in the beginning as you're building strength.

littlemissXsunshine

hmm. okay. weekends I don't usually do a ton - mostly just fooling around with my daughter in the pool, maybe a few hundred meters. I guess I will go easier on those days. I need more sleep too I think haha!

Macstraw

I try really hard to constantly breathe out in a steady pace, and then I sort of blow the rest out of my nose when I come up so that I don't get water in my nose when I'm turning. I still get that sort of panicky feeling though sometimes, especially if I try breathing on my left side. I did 600m of freestyle drills today JUST practicing rotation and breathing. It's really slow, but I think I'm making progress.

And yeah, I've been realizing that the way I turn my head to breathe is sort of like....up and not back? If that makes sense? Like I'm trying to look at the wall like everyone says, but I think I'm still trying to lift my head too much and end up turning my body a lot to compensate and lowering my hips and etc. etc. I've been trying to sort of pull my jaw towards my shoulder more and not lift the rest of my head. If that makes sense lol. When I try it on the left side though I often end up sucking in water.

Don't push all of the rest of your air out of your nose, you just need to put enough there to block the water. Pushing all of it out causes that need to inhale & that panicky feeling because you have no air left. Think relaxed & controlled. You have the right idea about the head turn - don't lift, just pivot to the side. Jaw or chin to the shoulder is exactly what you want to do, concentrate during your workouts on that & it will become more natural.....

ProfessorOwl

Another thing about breathing is that your head should always stay in line with the rest of your body. When you rotate to breathe, if both of your eyes are above the surface of the water, you're lifting your head. I try to keep one eye below the water when I breathe, if that makes any sense.

In any case, practice slowly and stay relaxed as you are. If you can have a friend record video of you swimming even from above water, it would probably be very helpful to see exactly what you're doing and figure out how to correct.

littlemissXsunshine

Another thing about breathing is that your head should always stay in line with the rest of your body. When you rotate to breathe, if both of your eyes are above the surface of the water, you're lifting your head. I try to keep one eye below the water when I breathe, if that makes any sense.

In any case, practice slowly and stay relaxed as you are. If you can have a friend record video of you swimming even from above water, it would probably be very helpful to see exactly what you're doing and figure out how to correct.

Is there a good way to practice good alignment? Everybody says like "imagine a pole going from your head down your spine", but I still find that I turn my head weird and I don't have a very good feel for what that kind of alignment feels like lol. I've been trying to lift only one goggle out, and I still usually feel like I'm not out of the water enough, but I think I'm getting better. I still need to learn to relax more :P I think that's a big part of all of my problems hahaha. I did a lot of "catch-up" drills just practicing rotation and breathing again today.

Macstraw

What I tell the younger kids is to picture Superman flying over Metropolis - he's not picking his head up, he's looking down at the city as he flies over. The bottom of the pool is the city, you're watching over it as you fly over (a/k/a swim your lap). From there turn your chin to your shoulder to look at Supergirl flying next to you & then look back down at the city. No need to lift the head to do any of this. You can also practice on dry land - when you're sitting in a chair or on the couch look straight out in front of you, not higher or lower. This is a good way to have that "pole through your spine" feeling - picture it coming down through the top of your head & straight down through the bottom of the chair - using the pole as an axis just turn your head so that you're looking to the side until your chin touches your shoulder. Use the same axis to turn back so that you are again looking straight out in front. Practice to both sides to help with bilateral breathing, you can do this as often as you want because you don't need to be in the pool for it. Then just take that same feeling into the water with you the next time you swim.....

Ms_J1

Is there a good way to practice good alignment? Everybody says like "imagine a pole going from your head down your spine", but I still find that I turn my head weird and I don't have a very good feel for what that kind of alignment feels like lol. I've been trying to lift only one goggle out, and I still usually feel like I'm not out of the water enough, but I think I'm getting better. I still need to learn to relax more :P I think that's a big part of all of my problems hahaha. I did a lot of "catch-up" drills just practicing rotation and breathing again today.

As Smm773 pointed out earlier, when you turn to breathe, turn so that you're looking toward your armpit. As the water sweeps by you, it leaves a pocket of air under your armpit when you lift your arm out of the water. Turn your head so that you can take a quick breath from that pocket of air and then return it to the Superman position (good analogy Macstraw!). You're not literally cramming your head under your armpit - just turning it in that direction (back but still slightly down).

littlemissXsunshine

I practiced the looking over my shoulder thing and then did like 30 laps of just doing like catch-up drills practicing rotation and breathing. I think I am starting to do better! My swim lessons will start in about 2 weeks and I can't wait. When I applied I said that I couldn't swim freestyle, but hopefully by then I will have made a lot of progress.

ProfessorOwl

I practiced the looking over my shoulder thing and then did like 30 laps of just doing like catch-up drills practicing rotation and breathing. I think I am starting to do better! My swim lessons will start in about 2 weeks and I can't wait. When I applied I said that I couldn't swim freestyle, but hopefully by then I will have made a lot of progress.

At the rate you're going, I would certainly bet on that!

Macstraw

I practiced the looking over my shoulder thing and then did like 30 laps of just doing like catch-up drills practicing rotation and breathing. I think I am starting to do better! My swim lessons will start in about 2 weeks and I can't wait. When I applied I said that I couldn't swim freestyle, but hopefully by then I will have made a lot of progress.

Sounds to me like you already have made a lot of progress :-) You'll be surprised how quickly you will become comfortable with it, you'll start to forget to concentrate on it as it becomes natural (which is a good thing) & all of a sudden you'll realize you haven't paid attention to it in quite awhile but you've been doing it properly.......

littlemissXsunshine

I practiced the looking over my shoulder thing and then did like 30 laps of just doing like catch-up drills practicing rotation and breathing. I think I am starting to do better! My swim lessons will start in about 2 weeks and I can't wait. When I applied I said that I couldn't swim freestyle, but hopefully by then I will have made a lot of progress.

Sounds to me like you already have made a lot of progress :-) You'll be surprised how quickly you will become comfortable with it, you'll start to forget to concentrate on it as it becomes natural (which is a good thing) & all of a sudden you'll realize you haven't paid attention to it in quite awhile but you've been doing it properly.......

Thanks!! You guys have helped me a ton. Weirdly, I have had moments like that, where I realize that I'm not focusing on breathing at all and doing it totally naturally. Hopefully soon it will be much more than just moments!! Can't wait to get back in the pool tomorrow!

Macstraw

I will be VERY soon. Improvement is not linear, it's exponential & you're WELL on your way to getting to where you want to be......

cw106

Is there a good way to practice good alignment? Everybody says like "imagine a pole going from your head down your spine", but I still find that I turn my head weird and I don't have a very good feel for what that kind of alignment feels like lol. I've been trying to lift only one goggle out, and I still usually feel like I'm not out of the water enough, but I think I'm getting better. I still need to learn to relax more :P I think that's a big part of all of my problems hahaha. I did a lot of "catch-up" drills just practicing rotation and breathing again today.

As Smm773 pointed out earlier, when you turn to breathe, turn so that you're looking toward your armpit. As the water sweeps by you, it leaves a pocket of air under your armpit when you lift your arm out of the water. Turn your head so that you can take a quick breath from that pocket of air and then return it to the Superman position (good analogy Macstraw!). You're not literally cramming your head under your armpit - just turning it in that direction (back but still slightly down).

thanks .
that 1 tip has enabled me to complete 2km in alternate breat/crawl this week.

i did have few misshaps as i took it too literally initially! nothing like the feeling that water is bursting out of my ears to concentrate the mind.

juliet3455

Congrats on your great success so far.

I can't really add much since I only started swimming in February of last year. Two sets of lessons 5 weeks per set and twice a week. One of the items I keep in my mind for breathing came from one of the more mature instructors which was to " Keep the low side ear in the water when turning to breath " - this keeps you from over-rotating and prevents you from popping your head up out of the water for the weird looking " survival " breath that we have all taken at some time. It took me about 6 weeks of lessons before I finally put all the little pieces together. You are way ahead of that point already. You would be placed in the " Stroke Improvement Class " not any of the Learn to Swim Classes if you showed up at my local swimming pool.

Macstraw

Another way to keep from turning to far when breathing in freestyle is to think 1 goggle lens above the water & 1 goggle lens in the water.....