A good article on Overtraining
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Posts: 1,653 Member
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ask-the-muscle-prof-the-truth-about-overtraining.html
The two most prominently discussed causes of overtraining are training frequency and volume.1 One of the old school myths of bodybuilding is that training any body part more than once or twice per week will result in "going catabolic." However, there's plenty of research that shows the opposite.
In one recent example, researchers in Norway took elite strength athletes who were training squats, deadlifts, and bench press three times per week and turned up the training frequency to six times per week.2 I'm sure many of your overtraining alarms are going off, but the researchers actually found that their subjects' strength and hypertrophy skyrocketed! This isn't totally unexpected. In fact, many elite athletes, such as the legendary Bulgarian national teams, have been training 3-4 times per day for decades.3
Frequency is important because training increases protein synthesis, but in well-trained athletes, this response lasts only 16-24 hours.4 Thus, if you blast each body part only once per week, you only really boost protein synthesis for a day afterward. If you have specific goals for, say, your arms, legs, or glutes, why would you stop there? Why not allow for growth three times per week or more?
The next issue is volume, which refers to the number of sets performed during training. There are two schools of thought about how volume affects hypertrophy. The first is that all the body really needs is one hard set, as long as it is performed to failure. The second calls for a higher-volume, multiple-set approach. Recently some researchers at the University of Sydney in Australia studied volume in a bodybuilding population with this debate in mind.5 They followed three groups who performed 3, 12, or 24 sets of squats per week. Their conclusion: the higher the number of sets, the greater the gains.
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So I guess supplemented elite strength athletes and bodybuilders respond positively to training every day and massive reps.
How well does this concept work with normal people?0 -
Normal people, and in the context of the majority of MFP users - in a deficit to some degree or another?0
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Tagging to read the article later. However, the extract is a little polarized. They discuss training 6 x per week in the study, but then use 1 x a week as not ideal, and also mention why not 3 x a week.
I do agree however, that the issue of over-training is often overstated.0 -
I train alone almost all the time (eventually i will find a training partner!). Therefore, for safety reasons, I end up doing lower weights of the bench press than I probably would if I had a partner. So, at the end of a work set, I take my rest, and then feel like doing more, so I do … maybe one or 2 extra sets. Then, if I feel up to it, I bench a second time in the same week, 2 days later. I feel like this is producing better results for me than once a week. Purely anecdotal, I know, but 2 days a week on the upper-body stuff seems to help me, rather than just one. Maybe I’ll add the OHP to my twice-a-week routine.
Full disclosure: I am doing a 4-day a week 5-3-1 with squats, bench press, deadlifts, and OHP as the main lifts, with accessories each day. I also supplement with a protein powder (every day, just to get to my protein goal) and BCAAs (mostly just on lift days).0 -
Bump for later0
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I always took the CT Fletcher attitude to overtraining.....
Seems I was right....
I'd link a video, but I don't think its safe for MFP.0 -
I always took the CT Fletcher attitude to overtraining.....
Seems I was right....
I'd link a video, but I don't think its safe for MFP.
The mods are pretty relaxed in this group
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8_8phD7AwM
There we go.
"There aint no such Mutha****in' thing as overtraining"
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Well, I will say the "there's no such thing as overtraining" theory is pretty easy to test, if you don't feel like reading about it. Just go with a progressive routine, start fairly heavy so you don't waste time, and ignore any deload programming.0
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bump for later0
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So I guess supplemented elite strength athletes and bodybuilders respond positively to training every day and massive reps.
How well does this concept work with normal people?
Bodybuilders don't train every single day and always do massive reps.0 -
Well, I will say the "there's no such thing as overtraining" theory is pretty easy to test, if you don't feel like reading about it. Just go with a progressive routine, start fairly heavy so you don't waste time, and ignore any deload programming.
Well, the claim there is you won't be eating enough or sleeping enough if it causes a negative effect.
So at some point, your day is half sleeping and half working out and half eating...... Huh, something doesn't look right there....
And no other responsibilities like kids waking you up, or needing money for that food and gym or family, ect.
I'm sure with smart routine you could stretch the negative effects way far out, by not overdoing sets of muscles. Sure seems like you'd eventually get there though in general.0 -
Well, I will say the "there's no such thing as overtraining" theory is pretty easy to test, if you don't feel like reading about it. Just go with a progressive routine, start fairly heavy so you don't waste time, and ignore any deload programming.
Well, the claim there is you won't be eating enough or sleeping enough if it causes a negative effect.
So at some point, your day is half sleeping and half working out and half eating...... Huh, something doesn't look right there....
And no other responsibilities like kids waking you up, or needing money for that food and gym or family, ect.
I'm sure with smart routine you could stretch the negative effects way far out, by not overdoing sets of muscles. Sure seems like you'd eventually get there though in general.
Thats not really the point though is it.
Most people can't train all day long, for a regular person who has a life, there is absolutley no chance that they will get enough free time to overtrain.
Lets face it, if millitary basic isn't overtraining, you'd have to train all day long to achieve it, ergo its not worth worrying about.
If you are sore, it's not overtraining.
If you are a bit tired, you aren't overtraining.
If you are ill then its possible, but unlikely that you are overtraining.0 -
If people had reasonable deficits and eating goals, and their time available was for exercise, agreed it would be doubtful they could overtrain.
But sadly far too many have neither reasonable deficits nor good sleep habits. And while time in the gym may be limited to an hour daily, you can still get a lot done.
And I know the focus on those comments is strictly for lifting, and so many that actually watch the effects of lifting based on how much they eat can really notice the difference week to week. If they kept on going in the negative state, how long until overtraining would be an issue.
So I guess I'm just convinced it's a matter of perspective - what are you doing in general that would make overtraining possible or unlikely.
I'm purely guessing there are more in the camp that could make it possible if they weren't mindful of their training program.0 -
Most people can't train all day long, for a regular person who has a life, there is absolutley no chance that they will get enough free time to overtrain.
Lets face it, if millitary basic isn't overtraining, you'd have to train all day long to achieve it, ergo its not worth worrying about.
If you are sore, it's not overtraining.
If you are a bit tired, you aren't overtraining.
If you are ill then its possible, but unlikely that you are overtraining.
Why would you have to train all day? All you have to do is break down muscles without providing enough fuel/rest to repair. After a while, gains stop, then strength starts decreasing.
Take the angry unbeliever off his steroids, drop him down to 5 hours sleep/day, give him a 1000-day calorie deficit, and keep him on the same routine - he'll get the picture in a hurry.0 -
Most people can't train all day long, for a regular person who has a life, there is absolutley no chance that they will get enough free time to overtrain.
Lets face it, if millitary basic isn't overtraining, you'd have to train all day long to achieve it, ergo its not worth worrying about.
If you are sore, it's not overtraining.
If you are a bit tired, you aren't overtraining.
If you are ill then its possible, but unlikely that you are overtraining.
Why would you have to train all day? All you have to do is break down muscles without providing enough fuel/rest to repair. After a while, gains stop, then strength starts decreasing.
Take the angry unbeliever off his steroids, drop him down to 5 hours sleep/day, give him a 1000-day calorie deficit, and keep him on the same routine - he'll get the picture in a hurry.
How much of a hurry?
If that is the case, why don't they drop like flies at Lympstone?
(admittedly many drop out, but still....)
You still seem to have missed the point, which is that overtraining is basically a non-issue for most people, because life means that they simply do not have time to do so.0 -
Most people can't train all day long, for a regular person who has a life, there is absolutley no chance that they will get enough free time to overtrain.
Lets face it, if millitary basic isn't overtraining, you'd have to train all day long to achieve it, ergo its not worth worrying about.
If you are sore, it's not overtraining.
If you are a bit tired, you aren't overtraining.
If you are ill then its possible, but unlikely that you are overtraining.
Why would you have to train all day? All you have to do is break down muscles without providing enough fuel/rest to repair. After a while, gains stop, then strength starts decreasing.
Take the angry unbeliever off his steroids, drop him down to 5 hours sleep/day, give him a 1000-day calorie deficit, and keep him on the same routine - he'll get the picture in a hurry.
How much of a hurry?
If that is the case, why don't they drop like flies at Lympstone?
(admittedly many drop out, but still....)
You still seem to have missed the point, which is that overtraining is basically a non-issue for most people, because life means that they simply do not have time to do so.
I'm on a slight calorie deficit. 46 years old. I was doing squats and deads on the same day. For about two months I went heavy on both lifts. At 170bs, I was lifting around 315lbs for the squat and 350 lbs or so on the dead. Then added all the usual accessory lifts. That was on a 3 day lift program with some jogging (only 3 miles) and bball on Friday.
I was beat down, tired and sore all the time. I was over training IMHO.
You want to equate over training to time and volume. That's not the case. It can be lifting too heavy, too frequently.
You don't understand that bodybuilders can lift everyday if you program your lifts/reps/recovery correctly. I didn't and that's what happened.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8_8phD7AwM
There we go.
"There aint no such Mutha****in' thing as overtraining"
I think I will play this on my lazy mornings to get me up and going :laugh:0 -
Intensity definitely matters. The example with the Bulgarian weight lifting team, they wouldn't be performing max effort sets (as in to muscular fatigue) like many bodybuilders. Yes they still go to fairly high %'s of 1rm but rarely miss lifts. Missing lifts due to grinding reps REALLY hampers recovery IMO. A lot of the stuff they do is rep work at lower intensity to practice technique.
There is a reason why most good strength programs have deload periods though. Even the VERY high volume Russian programs realize that it isn't all about going balls to the wall indefinitely. Go hard, accumulate fatique, reduce volume and super compensate.
If you track your numbers and realize that you are losing strength (with adequate nutrition and sleep) then that is a pretty good sign that you may be overreaching and require a deload IMO.0 -
I consider myself an average person. 3x a week plus some cardio is plenty for ^me - and I need occasional weeks off. Didn't read the whole article but it seems like 6 day intensity is for serious athletes.0
