conventional vs natural therapies

hookilau

Let me first say, I don't believe in 'T2D reversal' or 'T2D cures'.

I came across this interesting article while searching for something else, but thought it might help others.

We hear a great deal of conflicting advice in regards to how to control this disease & slow or halt it's progression.

Thought I'd share :drinker:

http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/111412p28.shtml

mrron2u

That was a good read! I think "remission" sounds like a more accurate term to describe diabetes that is under control for a prolonged period of time without the use of medicine. That is what I am striving for. Thanks for sharing - knowledge is power!

scubasuenc

First of all I don't think you can cure type 2 diabetes. Once your body's mechansim for dealing with carbohydrates is broken, I don't believe it can be fixed. However with diet and exercise it can be controlled. I'm not even sure remission is a valid term because a cancer patient waits for the cancer to return but has little control over when it will come back. Diabetes is not like that, ongoing diet and exercise are the key to remaining in control.

Part of the reason why the conventional approach uses medications is that most of those diagnosed with type 2 diabetes have been told for years they need to change their diet and exercise. I knew I needed to do that, but did not do it. Medications were needed to get my BG under control because I was unable to do it through diet an exercise alone.

For me the 'switch' was flipped when I was put on one insulin shot a day. I could see the progression and I didn't want to go there. That is what gave me the motivation to change my diet and exercise. I have followed a more conventional diet and exercise route - I eat between 100-125g of carbs most days, get about 40% of my calories from protein and about 30% from fat. I also exercise over 300 minutes most weeks.

If my A1C remains in the non-diabetic range I will get rid of the last medication, 500mg of metformin per day, after my next test in Sept. Even at that point I know I will have to remain vigilant. Once I reach my goal weight my plan is to reduce the amount of exercise, but I intend to keep my diet very similar to what it is now. While I don't check my BG during the day very often any more, only if I'm feeling hypo, or I'm curious about how a new food affects me, I continue to check my fasting numbers. While they don't tell the entire story, they are a daily reminder that I need to keep an eye on what I eat.

cwrig

Im in 100% agreement with scubasuenc. Well said.

While this article did have useful information to distribute, it is unfortunate and sad they they resort to misleading terminology to get people to read it. Diabetes is currently not curable, cannot go into remission and is not reversible. While the dietary advise is useful and important; the misleading terminology tends to discredit the article.

The Sun has no need to boast of it's brightness.

The other thing I have learned "on this journey" is often traditional care gets knocked for the treatments they use. The sad truth is the majority of diabetic patients are not compliant in the dietary and lifestyle instructions. I have diabetic friends that eat whatever they want and simply up their meds to compensate. While I think this behavior is atrocious, I fear it is all too common. While diet and exercise can often help control BG levels, most patients do not comply ergo Doctors must provide more aggressive medication to keep patients alive.

In my personal experience, my doctor stressed nutrition and enrolled me ina 4 week education class. He was quick to take me off meds once my diet and exercise was managing my BG levels. Based on my personal experience, traditional care is not as dogmatic and backward as many of these articles suggest.

hookilau

Just to clarify. I posted the link to this article as a way of bridging the differences between conventional tx vs. natural therapies. The goal was not to polarize people to choose sides, rather to illustrate that this is a multi-faceted issue.

Another excerpt from an additional article from the same source http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/020314p10.shtml

High or Low Carb?
The new guidelines note that there’s no conclusive evidence regarding an ideal amount of carbohydrate intake for people with diabetes. “We still have a lot to learn about carbohydrates and how different carbohydrates may affect blood glucose levels and glycemic control,” Urbanski says, adding that “many of the studies about carbohydrate are small, have low retention rates, and/or were of short duration.”

The 2008 guidelines recommended a minimum carbohydrate intake of 130 g/day, which was based on providing enough glucose to fuel the central nervous system without relying on glucose production from ingested protein or fat. The new guidelines don’t have this recommendation. (referring to the New ADA Guidelines)

source: Evaluating the New ADA Guidelines — There’s No One-Size-Fits-All Diet Plan
By Constance Brown-Riggs, MSEd, RD, CDE, CDN
Today’s Dietitian
Vol. 16 No. 2 P. 10

Edited to add source & for typos

Alsvic

I tend to agree with the previous statement from Scubasuenc and Cwrig. I do find it somewhat alarming that educated people believe that diabetes is in remission based on A1c results. I could achieve great results if I cut my carbs to thirty or forty grams a day. But even after six months or even years eating just one Banana Split would drive my glucose levels to the top end of the range.

Scubasuenc is correct for what ever reason our body's mechanism for dealing with carbohydrates is broken. Cwrig is also correct in that a side benefit of paying attention to our diet is losing weight. My doctor told me that if I did not lose weight I would end up being a diabetic. She was right, at 350 pounds I was diagnosed.

Now I have started paying attention to my diet and low and behold my B/G levels are falling into the "normal range" , but wait I have also started to lose the weight that supposedly caused my diabetes in the first place.

So for the sake of argument does the fact that I lost weight mean my diabetes is in remission? (the article would have you believe this) I believe a side benefit of eating to control my blood glucose levels is a natural tendency to eat at a deficit of calories, hence I have lost weight.

The article stated that people who gain back their weight back tend to have the diabetes come back. I think they (Nutritionists and dieticians) are refusing to look at the simpler explanation. People who gain the weight back are no longer paying attention to their diet and for that reason alone their blood glucose levels are going back up.

Just because we are able to treat this disease with diet alone does not constitute a remission. If you stop treatment, the disease does not come back. How can something comeback that never was gone in the first place?

BigGuy47

Just to clarify. I posted the link to this article as a way of bridging the differences between conventional tx vs. natural therapies. The goal was not to polarize people to choose sides, rather to illustrate that this is a multi-faceted issue.

The article works hard to present a case of approach A versus approach B. I don't believe that a singular approach is the right for everybody. Rather than choosing A or B my approach may be a combination of Conventional and Alternative. My choice is C (my own proven methods).

Regarding exercise, both methods recommend exercise. Good advice.

Regarding Fat intake, the alternative approach is OK with fats. I like this because fat is delicious. The conventional approach is still trying to sell a low fat diet. It's failed for more than 30 years why stop now?

Regarding Protein, both approaches encourage a fair amount of protein. However, the alternate approach says diabetics should practice a gluten free diet. :noway: Absurd.

Regarding carb, the alternative approach suggests avoiding all wheat products. Child please. Why should I have to avoid wheat products if I currently eat wheat (in moderation) and my A1C numbers are solid.

Controlling blood sugar is unique to the individual. We have to find a method that works for us. There will never be a one size fits all approach to controlling diabetes. After reading that article there appears to be plenty of bad information coming from both sides.

Note - It's difficult not to talk about the semantics. The article expends a great deal of energy working over the terms: remission, cure, reversing, etc. I prefer the term "controlled", it keeps me aware that I have to be mindful of my health.

amberj32

I tend to agree with the previous statement from Scubasuenc and Cwrig. I do find it somewhat alarming that educated people believe that diabetes is in remission based on A1c results. I could achieve great results if I cut my carbs to thirty or forty grams a day. But even after six months or even years eating just one Banana Split would drive my glucose levels to the top end of the range.

Scubasuenc is correct for what ever reason our body's mechanism for dealing with carbohydrates is broken. Cwrig is also correct in that a side benefit of paying attention to our diet is losing weight. My doctor told me that if I did not lose weight I would end up being a diabetic. She was right, at 350 pounds I was diagnosed.

Now I have started paying attention to my diet and low and behold my B/G levels are falling into the "normal range" , but wait I have also started to lose the weight that supposedly caused my diabetes in the first place.

So for the sake of argument does the fact that I lost weight mean my diabetes is in remission? (the article would have you believe this) I believe a side benefit of eating to control my blood glucose levels is a natural tendency to eat at a deficit of calories, hence I have lost weight.

The article stated that people who gain back their weight back tend to have the diabetes come back. I think they (Nutritionists and dieticians) are refusing to look at the simpler explanation. People who gain the weight back are no longer paying attention to their diet and for that reason alone their blood glucose levels are going back up.

Just because we are able to treat this disease with diet alone does not constitute a remission. If you stop treatment, the disease does not come back. How can something comeback that never was gone in the first place?

If I cut my carbs to 30-40 a day my blood sugar would be very low. After lunch yesterday, which was a large salad with lots of veggies, 1 string cheese and 2 tbsp of italian dressing, plain yogurt, equal and blackberries - total 37 carbs - and my blood sugar was 80 two hours after. I personally don't think if i ate a banana split that my blood sugar would be thru the roof. I've been pushing the envelope with my carbs lately and my blood sugar isn't going very high. After my July 4th 1700 calorie feast it was only 90. All that just to say that everyone with diabetes is different and what works for one person might not work for the next. I think it also depends on when they "catch" your diabetes. I was periodically checked for diabetes since my mom has it and three months prior to my diagnosis my fasting blood sugar was fine.

I think diabetes has something to do with being overweight but not every overweight person has diabetes and people that are skinny get diabetes. I think the doctors are just making educated guess and they really don't know. Our body's mechanism that deals with carbohydrates could be broken. I definitely agree with you that the people that had diabetes come back and gained weight was because they weren't watching their diet.

At a diabetic class I attended, she said we have so many beta cells and once you get diabetes they start decreasing and you can't get them back, so diet and exercise help slow the process.
Here's an interesting article. - http://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/544820

GlucernaBrand

This is a wonderful discussion and I appreciate everyone's realistic and honest thoughts about managing diabetes. I think that everyone is agreeing that there is no one right way to manage diabetes that works for everyone, and that each person needs to find the combination of food choices, exercise, and medication that works best for them. ~Lynn /Glucerna

hookilau

This is a wonderful discussion and I appreciate everyone's realistic and honest thoughts about managing diabetes. I think that everyone is agreeing that there is no one right way to manage diabetes that works for everyone, and that each person needs to find the combination of food choices, exercise, and medication that works best for them. ~Lynn /Glucerna

DenDweller

Thanks, hookilau, for posting the source material.

Diabetes is indeed a very personal and complex puzzle. Conflicting definitions, studies and information abound.

A special thank you, however, must go to BigGuy47 for finding the one unassailable, universal truth in this mess:

I like this because fat is delicious.

Amen, brother. Amen.

hookilau

Thanks, hookilau, for posting the source material.

Diabetes is indeed a very personal and complex puzzle. Conflicting definitions, studies and information abound.

A special thank you, however, must go to BigGuy47 for finding the one unassailable, universal truth in this mess:

I like this because fat is delicious.

Amen, brother. Amen.

:laugh: