Losing Strength with Body Fat

JTick

I have always been obese, and didn't work out in a structured way until the beginning of 2013. So for the last year, I've been riding high on newbie gains and my strength has done fabulous things.

I try to get my protein, and I lift to preserve LBM. However, I am still trying to lose weight (fat) and I think we can all agree that when you're in a deficit, your lifts can suffer.

I'm following 5/3/1, and pulled 225 on deadlifts for the first time two cycles ago. I jumped past the number I should've pulled by 5 lbs, but dammit I wanted those two plates. I got one rep. The following cycle, I pulled that number again and got 225x4 on a 1+ set. So this cycle, I added my ten pounds and attempted 235 last night.

Major. Epic. Fail.

So here's my question:

At what rate can one expect to lose strength as they maintain a long term deficit? What should I expect from my numbers as I continue to drop weight?

I do think there were some other factors at play last night. I've been rehabbing a torn ankle tendon, and those last two cycles was doing no running of any kind. Last night I warmed up with a mile run, which I used to do before tearing my tendon. BUT, that was several cycles ago when my deadlift was still around 200...I don't think that was a good thing to throw back in on 5/3/1 week.

Also, my diet and protein intake have been piss poor this last month. I'm definitely fixing that this cycle.

But, for future reference, at what point do I need to make adjustments to the numbers I should be lifting?

DopeItUp

Well, I think you answered your own question as far as your one-time poor performance. Outside factors are usually to blame for situations like this.

As far as your question about strength loss, I don't think anyone is going to be able to answer that question with solid numbers.

From personal experience, I can tell you that a calorie deficit is basically a recovery deficit. The bigger the caloric deficit, the bigger the recovery deficit. So pushing for new maxes all the time and doing tons of lifting volume AND adding in other exercise (cardio for example) is going to impact your ability to recover and thus your lifts will suffer eventually.

Likewise, if you go for a MINIMAL caloric deficit and you focus on lifting only, no cardio, lower volume of work...you will fare a lot better. I can tell you that I've been in a deficit since April and I have been following this rule with excellent success. As I continue to lower my calories, I have been reducing heavy lifting volume, cutting out accessory movements and reducing overall time in the gym. I get plenty of rest to boot. I have actually made several PRs in the last few months while losing weight. In fact, I set new PRs in all 4 big lifts in the last 3 weeks. I am not a beginner either, most of my lifts are in the Advanced range.

In comparison, last year when I was in a deficit I was doing 3 days of lifting, 2 days of cardio and was doing lots of 5x5 work, squatting 2-3x a week, etc. My lifts ended up going backwards. I probably lost 5% off of my lifts over the course of 6 months. The upper body lifts especially. Too much time in the gym, too much overall exercise intensity actually had negative results.

Personally I think just about anyone except the high-level elites can at LEAST maintain their strength during a cut, if they adhere to the rules of minimal deficit, lowering of frequency/volume of lifting and avoiding conflicting exercises in general. Add them back in when it's time for maintenance/bulk.

_benjammin

^What he said^
My personal experience, during a 6 week cut and subsequent 4 week reverse (still in a deficit) I lost strength on my bench and OHP. Squat and DL went up and row stalled. I tried to maintain my "push" strength by decreasing volume but in the end, I deloaded, ramped back up but stalled before getting back to where I was and deloaded again.

JTick

Oh I agree that no one can give solid numbers. I've been (mostly) in a deficit for almost two years now, and this the first time that I feel really close to actually hitting a stall with the weights.

Unfortunately, less cardio isn't an option. I'm supposed to be moving into training for a full marathon here soon. I do accept that when that happens, I can pretty much expect to just minimize LBM loss, and not try to add pounds on to the lift every month. I have run a few half marathons thus far and my lifts have still progressed fine, but I've had to be very careful with planning races and tapers and recovery.

I am definitely very curious about what will happen next cycle when I try for that 235 again after having fixed the obvious problems that happened yesterday.

jquijas

One thing you can try (if you haven't already) is to plan your eating around your lifting times. I.E. if you are a morning trainer have either dinner closer to bedtime or go ahead and eat breakfast 30 mins or so before training. That way you would be well fueled for your workout.

JTick

One thing you can try (if you haven't already) is to plan your eating around your lifting times. I.E. if you are a morning trainer have either dinner closer to bedtime or go ahead and eat breakfast 30 mins or so before training. That way you would be well fueled for your workout.

I train at 5 pm, and eat lunch around noon, maybe a snack around 3. Anything other than that, I'm gonna throw up during a work out, and I'd also argue that meal timing is irrelevant for my purposes.

Sarauk2sf

Nothing to really add here as I pretty much agree with everything everyone has said.

Progress usually slows at a deficit (sometimes to a virtual standstill), but you should not be losing strength if you keep the deficit minimal and try to mitigate other factors that can impact training (which is the case whether you are at a deficit or surplus) like getting adequate sleep. The suggestion of timing your meals around you workout for energy purposes is also a good one (and possibly timing your macros so you have more carbs prior to lifting).

I can keep or even improve strength on a deficit even after lifting for 2 years - however, I cannot do that when I get shi!tty sleep or cut too hard.

gweneddk

I'd argue you really haven't lost any strength, and your gains have just slowed down a bit. If it starts getting to the point where a weight you could hit for a triple before is suddenly stapled to the floor, and this happens multiple times, I'd start to think you're losing strength.

As for slow gains, It could be because you're eating at a deficit, but some point you may also hit a limiting factor that will slow your gains. I am pretty sure back strength is the limiting factor for my DLs. I've put 45 pounds on my DL 1RM in about 20 months, which averages out to only about 2 lbs per month. But I did gain strength! Be patient, I'm sure your strength will come.

DopeItUp

One thing you can try (if you haven't already) is to plan your eating around your lifting times. I.E. if you are a morning trainer have either dinner closer to bedtime or go ahead and eat breakfast 30 mins or so before training. That way you would be well fueled for your workout.

That's a great point. Meal timing is largely irrelevant for most things but I do feel it has big implications for training performance. When I switched to working out after dinner (my largest meal and also containing the majority of my carbs) it made a big difference. I wait an hour or so for food to make it out of my stomach and then I go crush the weights.

I used to train after a small snack, before dinner and it was much rougher. MUCH rougher.

SideSteel

One thing you can try (if you haven't already) is to plan your eating around your lifting times. I.E. if you are a morning trainer have either dinner closer to bedtime or go ahead and eat breakfast 30 mins or so before training. That way you would be well fueled for your workout.

I train at 5 pm, and eat lunch around noon, maybe a snack around 3. Anything other than that, I'm gonna throw up during a work out, and I'd also argue that meal timing is irrelevant for my purposes.

Meal timing is very relevant for most people for training performance, especially in an energy deficit.

SideSteel

I can keep or even improve strength on a deficit even after lifting for 2 years - however, I cannot do that when I get shi!tty sleep or cut too hard.

aka all the time?

SideSteel

So just generally speaking some of the things I would look at when performance issues arise would be some of the following:

- level of leanness of the client.
- duration of diet
- aggressiveness of diet (size of energy deficit)
- macronutrient composition of diet
- sleep
- external factors that may impact recovery (activity outside of training)
- nutrient timing (this can be a big one in some people)
- programming (would a change in program variables mitigate the problem)

JTick

Ok, so looks like I might need to start treating myself like an athlete and time my meals better. What do you all recommend...do I just need carbs about sixty minutes before?

I am on a 500 calorie deficit, still have a good thirty pounds of fat to lose. I've been taking my sweet old time losing it, and am coming out of a diet break to get back into losing mode.

I am aiming for at least 120p/60f, and am getting about 200 carbs...1800 calories. I did have my protein higher, but I was having adherence issues and craving the carbs from all the cardio I do. Adherence has been much better since adding more carbs, but I'd be open to thoughts there.

I loosely follow 5/3/1, and absolutely love the way it works with my running. I say loosely because I did have my trainer help out with assistance work to address some imbalances I was having, but I love my assistance work as well.

Thank you all for the responses. This fail really frustrated me, so I appreciate the help.

SideSteel

The first thing I would do in your specific case, is nothing. Bad days happen to the best of us and in my opinion a practical approach would be to just let it go and accept it for now, HOWEVER if it becomes a pattern/happens somewhat regularly I would start paying close attention to some of the variables mentioned previously.

JTick

The first thing I would do in your specific case, is nothing. Bad days happen to the best of us and in my opinion a practical approach would be to just let it go and accept it for now, HOWEVER if it becomes a pattern/happens somewhat regularly I would start paying close attention to some of the variables mentioned previously.

Thank you. My plan right now is to keep my lifting numbers the same for next cycle and see what happens when I hit that 5/3/1 week again. I'll be back next month if there's another epic fail. :laugh:

Thanks again everyone for the thoughts!

gweneddk

I've experimented a bit with pre/peri workout nutrition until I found what works best for me: fat free Greek yogurt mixed with ~1/4 cup of fruit. I have had that 1-2 hours before my evening workouts pretty consistently for several years and that is what works best for me (doesn't bother my stomach at all, seems to give me enough energy to get through my workout, doesn't "cost" a lot of calories, etc.). Every once and awhile if I don't have yogurt I'll have something different: a piece of meat, string cheese, nuts, or 1/2 a quest bar or protein shake. None of those sit in my stomach as well but they are usually ok.

I am also a big believer in BCAAs which I start sipping during my warmup and throughout my workout.