PALEO and Healthy Grains

maria_antoinette

In an effort to not totally knock out this food group and considering i am not trying to really lose weight.. just trying to be healthy and maintain.. I am wondering which grains are GOOD for us ..... I would not eat more then 1 serving anyway ..

I am just trying to make sure i am getting all nutrients possible..

maria_antoinette

After some searching I found these things.. that according to PALEO might be well tolerated and a good source of Vitamin C etc..

banana
raisins
swee tpotato
apple
wild rice and quinoa

deoxy4

You might want to search for foods that are nutrient and antioxidant rich with a low GI rating. For example, raisins are fairly nutrient rich and antioxidant rich but pack a very high sugar content causing a huge insulin spike. Blueberries are nutrient and antioxidant rich but contain much lower sugar content and don't cause a huge insulin spike. I find that most fruits are sugar bags which have been hybridized for sugar content which appeals to our sweet tooth. I only eat lower sugar content fruits and only when I am planning to exercise and combine them with foods that contain protein and fiber to minimize an insulin spike. I find more vegetables have a low GI rating and are more nutrient and antioxidant rich. Just my slant.

maria_antoinette

You might want to search for foods that are nutrient and antioxidant rich with a low GI rating. For example, raisins are fairly nutrient rich and antioxidant rich but pack a very high sugar content causing a huge insulin spike. Blueberries are nutrient and antioxidant rich but contain much lower sugar content and don't cause a huge insulin spike. I find that most fruits are sugar bags which have been hybridized for sugar content which appeals to our sweet tooth. I only eat lower sugar content fruits and only when I am planning to exercise and combine them with foods that contain protein and fiber to minimize an insulin spike. I find more vegetables have a low GI rating and are more nutrient and antioxidant rich. Just my slant.

Perfect. yeah what i did was have like 1/8 cup raisins with like 1 tablespoon of organic cream.. delicious snack...

Dragonwolf

In an effort to not totally knock out this food group and considering i am not trying to really lose weight.. just trying to be healthy and maintain.. I am wondering which grains are GOOD for us ..... I would not eat more then 1 serving anyway ..

I am just trying to make sure i am getting all nutrients possible..

Strictly speaking, there are no good grains according to Paleo philosophies. Cordain goes into great detail about the reasons why, and Sisson elaborates some more, as well. In short, it boils down to their high phytic acid content and relatively few nutrients for their carbohydrate load.

According to the more pragmatic versions of Paleo, grains are still, at best "neutral," and it's encouraged to keep them very limited and only consume if you're very active. These are part of the "safe starches" and pretty much only amounts to white rice, because it has the lowest phytic acid content and fewest antinutrients.

There really isn't any nutritional need for grains, because they don't contain anything that can't be obtained in greater quantities for fewer (more satiating) calories and carbohydrates in other sources. The idea of cutting out "food groups" only arises because of the USDA's arbitrary assignment of foods into such groups. The reality is that cutting out grains really isn't any different than cutting out soda or candy -- there really isn't much of a nutritional need for them, and consuming them risks over consumption, weight gain, and health problems.

That said, if you really feel the need/desire to include grains, I highly recommend looking at the Weston A. Price Foundation guidelines. It's Paleo-esque, but includes grains, but requires specific handling to reduce the phytic acid and anti-nutrient content of the grains.

What do you think you are nutritionally missing from not including grains in your diet? You mention you want to be healthy, which suggests that you don't think eliminating grains entirely is healthy.

Akimajuktuq

In an effort to not totally knock out this food group and considering i am not trying to really lose weight.. just trying to be healthy and maintain.. I am wondering which grains are GOOD for us ..... I would not eat more then 1 serving anyway ..

I am just trying to make sure i am getting all nutrients possible..

Strictly speaking, there are no good grains according to Paleo philosophies. Cordain goes into great detail about the reasons why, and Sisson elaborates some more, as well. In short, it boils down to their high phytic acid content and relatively few nutrients for their carbohydrate load.

According to the more pragmatic versions of Paleo, grains are still, at best "neutral," and it's encouraged to keep them very limited and only consume if you're very active. These are part of the "safe starches" and pretty much only amounts to white rice, because it has the lowest phytic acid content and fewest antinutrients.

There really isn't any nutritional need for grains, because they don't contain anything that can't be obtained in greater quantities for fewer (more satiating) calories and carbohydrates in other sources. The idea of cutting out "food groups" only arises because of the USDA's arbitrary assignment of foods into such groups. The reality is that cutting out grains really isn't any different than cutting out soda or candy -- there really isn't much of a nutritional need for them, and consuming them risks over consumption, weight gain, and health problems.

That said, if you really feel the need/desire to include grains, I highly recommend looking at the Weston A. Price Foundation guidelines. It's Paleo-esque, but includes grains, but requires specific handling to reduce the phytic acid and anti-nutrient content of the grains.

What do you think you are nutritionally missing from not including grains in your diet? You mention you want to be healthy, which suggests that you don't think eliminating grains entirely is healthy.

This this this. I don't really understand someone being on board with Paleo (some research into "why Paleo" would be in order, right?) and then thinking they are missing nutrients from avoiding a "food group". ??? Food groups are a human invention only; completely meaningless on a biological level. In fact, grains can block absorption of nutrients from far more beneficial foods, due to inflammation etc. There are so many societies that survived without grains, that it's obvious that they are not essential in any way.

That said, if one must have grains definitely check out WAPF. Grains aren't at all worth all that effort in my opinion. I don't need the starch, fibre (insoluble fibre hurts me), carbs, etc. However, other people feel differently. (However, keep in mind that Dr. Price didn't really push grains when he was here to speak for himself. But the WAPF points out how societies that did eat grain prepared them in a way to be the safest for consumption.)

maria_antoinette

I heard White rice was good for people like me who have a Thyroid Problem.. so maybe adding some White rice like 1/2 cup a day would not hurt...

maria_antoinette

I heard White rice was good for people like me who have a Thyroid Problem.. so maybe adding some White rice like 1/2 cup a day would not hurt...

I also read about some people having some deficiencies in vitamin C and having kidney issues.. I read this on the PALEO websites.. and so i am trying to find out if anyone here actually includes grains....

i will keep researching, its just hard to seperate what is fact and what is not.. so much info out their... and at least i feel that this group is REAL people talking in real TIME from real life experience... so thats why i ask..

maria_antoinette

What about these foods.. 1 serving a day... for extra Vitamin C

banana
raisins
swee tpotato
apple

Kinger138

What about these foods.. 1 serving a day... for extra Vitamin C

banana
raisins
swee tpotato
apple

Sweet potato, sure, as a safe starch. But watch the fruit...sugar, sugar sugar. Also be wary of the dreaded "Dirty Dozen" list when it comes to your fruits. If you're really feelin' the need for the Vitamin C and sweetness, go with berries. I buy frozen berries a lot. Low glycemic load, tasty, and during the summer pretty dang refreshing.

Howbouto

The reasons to exclude have been gone over above. But if you are interested in grains, I would start with ancient grains one at time. Try one, only once, and really pay attention over the next week to see they bother you.

http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Markets/10-ancient-grains-to-watch-from-kamut-to-quinoa

deoxy4

If you don't have a problem with nightshades you might consider bell peppers as a good low GI source of vitamin C. I take 2 grams of vitamin C as a supplement. I like to get my vitamins from food source but that is a lot of vitamin C to get from a food source. Luckily most vitamin C is made in GMP facilities and tightly controlled, unlike many supplements.

maria_antoinette

If you don't have a problem with nightshades you might consider bell peppers as a good low GI source of vitamin C. I take 2 grams of vitamin C as a supplement. I like to get my vitamins from food source but that is a lot of vitamin C to get from a food source. Luckily most vitamin C is made in GMP facilities and tightly controlled, unlike many supplements.

I totally forgot about that.. we can get VITAMIN C from veggies.... also a supplement would be great..

Dragonwolf

I heard White rice was good for people like me who have a Thyroid Problem.. so maybe adding some White rice like 1/2 cup a day would not hurt...

I also read about some people having some deficiencies in vitamin C and having kidney issues.. I read this on the PALEO websites.. and so i am trying to find out if anyone here actually includes grains....

i will keep researching, its just hard to seperate what is fact and what is not.. so much info out their... and at least i feel that this group is REAL people talking in real TIME from real life experience... so thats why i ask..

Umm.... grains don't contain Vitamin C by nature. Fruits, vegetables, and organ meats do, so if Paleo people are finding themselves deficient in Vitamin C, it's because they're basically living off of chicken breast, and if you find a grain-based item that has vitamin C and doesn't contain fruits, vegetables, or organs, it's artificially fortified. To be honest, I've never even associated grains with vitamin C, like....ever. I haven't even gotten to the point of eating organs yet, but I still go to them when thinking about vitamin C long, long before thinking about grains.

Seriously, you have to really try to end up deficient in vitamin C. There are documented cases of people eating nothing but meat for an entire year, under close medical supervision (and many more less supervised cases of Arctic travelers and dwellers living many years on almost nothing but meat) and weren't deficient in anything, much less vitamin C. (In fact, Steffanson's heath regressed in the years he after he reintroduced grains into his diet after his Arctic travels and life with the Inuit, including gaining a significant amount of weight and getting gingivitis again.)

Worried about your vitamin C intake? Then eat half a papaya, some broccoli, Brussels sprouts, bell pepper, or strawberries. Any one of those will supply you with more than the RDA for vitamin C, all for under 100 calories and only a couple of grams of carbohydrates (plus numerous other nutrients, including zinc, iron, K1, antioxidants, manganese, fiber, iodine, chromium, folate, and much more).

http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/two-brave-men-who-ate-nothing-but-meat.html
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002404.htm
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=109

I seriously think you need to do a Whole 30, to force yourself into a new mindset and just start eating real food, because if you eat real food, and you eat even a remotely reasonable variety of it, you will be very hard pressed to be deficient in just about anything.

Akimajuktuq

Totally agree with the above. Grains are useless for anything. Any nutrient in a grain will be in higher amounts in a better food.

I'd like to add to the above by saying that societies that lived almost entirely on animal foods gave preference to organs and fat. Living entirely on lean meat is actually impossible ("rabbit starvation"). When I lived on a reserve in northern BC they were being told to stop eating the fat from around the animal intestines. The people said "it's healthy" so the health professionals, trying to prove them wrong, sent a sample out to be analyzed. The fat (in that area they called it "bum guts" lol) turned out to be only 40% fat and was FULL of vitamins and minerals. It's what we would now call "brown fat" and is known to be very healthy to eat.

The Inuit (who I live with) ate almost all animal foods by necessity. They too preferred organs and fat and most lean meat was fed to the dogs. Marine mammal fat is full of vitamins and minerals. Whenever I have a bit of whale fat it's like someone turned a furnace on inside me. Consuming those healthiest animal fats actually increases metabolism and keeps a person warm in a cold climate. Inuit were NEVER known to have scurvy or any other diseases of nutrient deficiency. But they didn't turn their noses up at the most important foods: organs and fat.

There are no "essential grains" and no "food groups". If you agree that this lifestyle is healthy and something you want to continue you might like to stick to the many, many sources that focus on Paleo, Primal etc. Otherwise, yes, the information that you are going to find will be conflicting and confusing. While eating Paleo, how are you feeling? That's the TRUTH more than anything you can read in a book, online etc.

Also, commenting with these things in the general forums are just going to get you: "calories in and calories out are the explanation for everything in the entire universe". Not very useful in my opinion to reduce a complex biological system to just that.

maria_antoinette

calories in ,, calories out always has worked for me. 100% of the time.... and no health issues... no matter what kind of calorie... but at this age i noticed food intolerances that i did not have in the past... GLUTEN and DAIRY and SUGAR... so paleo is not so much what i am doing, but what i have to do for my stomach..

At this age I am looking for more then just calories in and calories out.... i am looking for GOOD calories in only.... and i want to be as healthy as possible ..... good FOR ME that is.. since we are all different..

so i am trying to get all my nutrients from what i eat .. and WHAT is essential to eat....

well thats what i am trying to figure out....

maria_antoinette

I only eat real food..

maria_antoinette

So ok Bottom line, grains are stupid just like sugar or junk food.... and vitamin C comes from alot of things I can eat in the form of veggies and fruit with low GI or whatever thats called..

ok great. that sounds good.. what about all they say about white rice and thyroid

Akimajuktuq

calories in ,, calories out always has worked for me. 100% of the time.... and no health issues... no matter what kind of calorie... but at this age i noticed food intolerances that i did not have in the past... GLUTEN and DAIRY and SUGAR... so paleo is not so much what i am doing, but what i have to do for my stomach..

At this age I am looking for more then just calories in and calories out.... i am looking for GOOD calories in only.... and i want to be as healthy as possible ..... good FOR ME that is.. since we are all different..

so i am trying to get all my nutrients from what i eat .. and WHAT is essential to eat....

well thats what i am trying to figure out....

This is something that is frustrating me… calories in and calories out have been PROVEN to not be a direct relationship. You might be better off sticking with SAD, which includes "healthy" grains and where restricting calories will always lead to the best outcome. Since it ALWAYS worked for you.

I do understand you are seeking information but I just wonder where you are getting that info? Such as that grains are a good source of vitamin C?

If things are harder "at this age" it's because calories in and calories out with little thought to food quality was NOT working. That's why your body responded negatively in some way at some point (food intolerances). Those foods were always hurting the body, we just come to believe that it's normal to feel like crap.

maria_antoinette

no.. lol.. i never said grains are good for vitmain c... ha ha ha.. i know that vitamin c comes from fruits and veggies.. i think everyone knows that...
i must have not explained myself.. that was seperate..
...
the grains were more in reference to things like white rice or maybe oats or something... i was just wondering if ANYONE thinks and can prove their is anything good about grains...

so far no one can up with anything we need it for...

Dragonwolf

no.. lol.. i never said grains are good for vitmain c... ha ha ha.. i know that vitamin c comes from fruits and veggies.. i think everyone knows that...
i must have not explained myself.. that was seperate..
...
the grains were more in reference to things like white rice or maybe oats or something... i was just wondering if ANYONE thinks and can prove their is anything good about grains...

so far no one can up with anything we need it for...

This is what you said:

I also read about some people having some deficiencies in vitamin C and having kidney issues.. I read this on the PALEO websites.. and so i am trying to find out if anyone here actually includes grains....

It's pretty hard to interpret that as anything other than "Paleo people cut out grains and ended up with vitamin C deficiency."

You also mentioned that you forgot that you can get vitamin C from vegetables, and the fruits you've listed aren't particularly great sources of vitamin C.

Perhaps you should take a little more time writing your forum posts before actually posting them, so that you make sure you're saying what you're trying to say?