Which lifting program for size AND strength?

Chaskavitch

I'm not sure this is the right forum for this question, but, as other posters have said, the main forums get a little...weird...sometimes, and most of you seem like you know what you're talking about

My sister and I are embarking on a bulking journey. She just finished 5th of 18 for her height class in an Open Figure competition (Loveland Warrior Classic on 8/22/14), and would like to progress to Physique next year. I'd like to focus more on usefulness/strength than size, but I figure they go hand in hand. She's already really lean, obviously, so she'd have to eat a LOT more to get out of her deficit and put on some muscle. I'm (and I'm guessing here) at about 25% body fat, so I'm probably technically not low enough to start a "bulk", per se, but we're lifting together, so I may as well get the benefits.

We currently do a lot of squatting (front and high back, mostly), bench (max of ~125# for me, ~150# for her), and I just picked up deadlift (up to 205 for a max, yay!), in addition to whatever accessory exercises we feel like. We don't push ourselves hard enough when we go just to lift, so adopting an established program seems like a good idea.

I see a lot of people suggesting Stronglifts and NROLFW for beginner weightlifters, but I feel like we have a good strength base and understanding of form already, and I wasn't sure if those programs would start off way too easy. I also looked into Wendler's 5/3/1 with accessory lifts, which claims it is good for gaining strength.

Does anyone have any recommendations and reasoning as to which program would be best for gaining size/strength while eating at a reasonable caloric excess?

DopeItUp

Any of the programs work just fine, it's just a matter of where you are in your lifting career and what speed of progress you can handle. A program like SL adds 5lbs to every workout (that's 15lbs/week to your squat alone!). Obviously very quick progression and the sort of progression speed that only beginners can really handle.

More advanced 5x5 programs like Madcow add only 5lbs a week instead. Intermediate programs like 5/3/1 add 5lbs(or 10lbs to lower body) per 4 weeks. If you fancy yourself an intermediate level lifter then 5/3/1 is a pretty good choice. It's very modular and flexible. I've been doing it for almost a year and I think it's great.

If you're curious as to where you fall in your lifts, try: http://www.strstd.com/

SideSteel

For clarification are you asking for 1 program that you both do that fits both goals?

If the answer is yes, I'd be more inclined to tell her to optimize her program for her goals and you lift with her and reap whatever benefits you get from it, although in either case one of you would end up with a program that's not likely a best fit for your goals. It sounds to me based on a 150# bench and based on her training experience that her programming would have different aspects to it based on her goals, that aren't necessarily going to be a good fit for you at least in terms of where your current needs are.

So for example (again just based on your stats) you would probably do well on something like Stronglifts or Starting Strength or another simple barbell based program with aggressive loading as it would get your lifts up faster than most other programs, but this probably wouldn't be an ideal program for your sister based on her needs/experience.

Chaskavitch

I was looking for something for size for her, strength for me. I know that strength would come with size, so I suppose I'd prefer a program more for size than anything, since my sister is the one with more specific goals. I just want to be able to lift heavier things (a 2x bodyweight deadlift would be amazing . I was asking mostly because the 5/3/1 book I have is focused on gaining strength, and I was wondering if there was anything more geared toward size, or if they just went hand in hand. She's been doing a lot of isolation work in prep for her show, and I'd like to back away from that and focus on compound lifts until she chooses another show..

You're right that I'm behind on overall weights. Part of that is that my lifting has been less than directed lately, and my maxes have actually dropped on squats and bench. I was up to 145# 1RM for bench like two months ago, now I struggle to do reps with 105#. I feel like I could catch up fairly quickly if I do as SideSteel suggested and start with a more "beginner" program with their aggressive loading.

Thanks for the advice, and for the suggestion of Madcow; I'd never heard of it before, and it looks interesting. I like that it has squats more often than 5/3/1

_errata_

TLDR: Any program that utilizes periodization. Working from low weight to heavy weight over a cycle of time will give you both size and strength and allow your muscles to recover from the intensity of heavy weight portion of the cycle:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_periodization_bible

Long Version:
Strength vs Size is primarily a function of intensity vs volume, that is, heavier weights + lower reps => more strength, and lighter weights + higher reps => more mass. The reason for this is that the type of lifts engage different types of hypertrophy. Heavier weights put more emphasis on mechanical tension, which increases strength faster. Higher reps will hit your metabolic system harder, given you a burn, and help you increase the size and amount of the mitochondria in your muscle fibers, which has a huge impact on size. This is the classic difference between Type 1 and Type 2 muscle fibers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeletal_striated_muscle

This is why you some guys are strong AF, but may not be mass monsters. So, how do you get both? Periodization. Simply stated, it is just working your way up from lower weight/higher rep sets to heavier weight sets over a period of time, commonly referred to as a cycle. At the end of each cycle you should be hitting a new max or personal record. Most advanced programs have some kind of periodization built in. 5/3/1 is a great example of a program that is working from lighter weights to heavier weights. Other examples include Ed Coan's 10 and 12 weeks cycles (use google), and Westside barbell programs. (http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Powerlifting/Westside.html)

These programs are typically for more advanced lifters because newb gains will outpace the progressions. There is nothing wrong with a new lifter doing them, but you might find that you can make faster progress than what is described in a typical cycle. Personally, I think it is best to get lifters on a periodization cycle asap because it teaches them to have reasonable expectations and hopefully allows them to avoid injury due to realistic expectations.

chrisdavey

5/3/1 with BBB assistance and a few isolation movements in higher rep ranges for muscle groups not hit well with the big compounds IMO.

Her: eat more (will gain strength and size)
You: eat less (should retain strength and possibly increase and shrink)

You may require the deload more often. I personally think every 4th week is way too quick for anyone in a surplus but that comes down to the individual.

_errata_

5/3/1 with BBB assistance and a few isolation movements in higher rep ranges for muscle groups not hit well with the big compounds IMO.

Her: eat more (will gain strength and size)
You: eat less (should retain strength and possibly increase and shrink)

You may require the deload more often. I personally think every 4th week is way too quick for anyone in a surplus but that comes down to the individual.

^^^This is what I should have written. BBB is "Boring But Big". Here is a link: http://www.t-nation.com/workouts/boring-but-big-3-month-challenge

tomcornhole

I agree with 5/3/1 plus BBB. 5/3/1 takes care of the strength side, BBB takes care of the mass side. But you better be willing to eat a metric *kitten* load of calories to fuel the growth. Without the right diet, BBB is just a lesson in fatigue and burnout.