What is this sorcery?

CARoberts73

I do about 25 - 35 carbs a day and I've been stuck for 3 weeks. Last night I had a "screw it" moment and had a big bowl of pasta. Today I'm down a pound.

Is it possible my "sweet spot" for carbs and weight loss is a big higher?

Am going to experiment the next few days with hovering around 50 and see what happens.

Is this a valid possibility? Or coincidence? Opinions, please.

ali59oc

I average 15g carbs a day BUT I can go as high as 45 and not go out of ketosis. Or gain weight. But I don't do it every day.

What was on the pasta? Butter? Olive oil? Some other fats? How much other fat did you eat that day? If it was fat, then it was the fat that made you lose, not the carbs. If you are in a stall, best way to get out is lower the carbs, up the fat, add salt. I wouldn't raise the carbs. You'll go out of ketosis and then there's that whole thing trying to get back and you will gain.

CARoberts73

Ahh, ok, yes there was probably quite a bit of fat: ground beef, butter, sauce.

nancytyc

I agree that increasing the fat, not the carbs is the key. When you seem to be in a prolonged stall (4 weeks or more) then try going on a fat fast. It ain't fun, but it does work. I can lose as much as 10 pounds in just five days of fat fasting. When I go back to my normal low carb high fat eating plan, I increase the carbs slowly over a few days, back up to my normal 20 - 30 net per day. I always gain back about 25% of the pounds lost, but I also keep off the 75% that I lost (about 7.5 pounds of the 10)

You can go online to find fat fast recipes, but I find that most are too high in carbs. On a fat fast, 90% of your calories must come from a fat source (butter, cream, cream cheese, sour cream, pork rinds, oils). No more than 10 carbs total (not net). As much water as you can stomach (adding MioFit gives extra electrolytes and sodium, a good idea during fat fasting). I consume extra caffeine during fat fasting. It helps with not feeling sluggish.

Try it and let me know if it helps any.

deansdad101

Low carb decreases T3(thyroid hormone), it's good to have a carb up once a week or so. I go to school and my days are long. I haven't gone grocery shopping in about 2 weeks for keto based foods. I found myself eating pho with eggs noodles after school. Sometimes some ice cream. Now lately 2 burgers, and sometimes a milk shake. I am losing weight just fine. So why change? If i do stall out, I'd make some changes, but right now, things are fine how they are. I eat what i want, and lose weight. A big part of all this is IF, I rarely eat breakfast, maybe 2x a week. I don't eat till 4-5pm, and it's not that much.(i don't think)

There are benefits to increases carbs once a week or so.

Pu;

Yes there are studies that demonstrate reduced T3 production; however, a number of them have been challenged by peer review for a couple of reasons.

First, very short term studies (3 - 10 days) are not of sufficient duration to allow acclimation rendering the results suspect.

Secondly, many argue that T3 production levels are relative to demand to metabolize the carbs so lower carb intake = lower demand.

Not questioning your research or what methods work for you, just think it's far too early for blanket statements like "there are benefits...."

More research needs to be done before we can state categorically that either T3 concerns or "carbing up" are issues which should be of concern. (IMO)

Conventional wisdom (which is often neither) held for years that carb "loading" was essential for long duration athletes. A number of recent studies have demonstrated otherwise.

Here's one example:
http://tinyurl.com/a3ex5pz

ali59oc

That pasta sounds pretty good! Except for the pasta part!

baconslave

That pasta sounds pretty good! Except for the pasta part!

oh yeah! I'd add some sour cream or cheese too...drooling.

CARoberts73

Thank you all for the responses! I was feeling pretty burned out and frustrated and I basically bombed it over the weekend.

Starting fresh today, going to shoot for keeping the carbs under 20 - 25 all week and I will watch the fat to make sure it's high enough.

I have high cholesterol, always have, since my 20's. It's genetic. (I take a statin, and at first I thought that was causing the stall -- I'm off it at the moment for that reason.) I think the reason I have trouble hitting the fat the way I need to for this, is in the back of my mind.....I'm super paranoid about the cholesterol issue. To the point where, if I eat too much high fat stuff I start to get very anxious that I'm ruining my health and going to die of a heart attack.....you know, like tomorrow.

I'm choosing this lifestyle over others because it's worked for me in the past, because it's very well suited to my tastes and preferences, and because type 2 diabetes is a huge issue (at least as big, if not bigger than the cholesterol) with the women in my family. I need to cut down my simple carbs and my sugars NOW if I'm going to have any chance at avoiding that particular fate.....or at least that is my reasoning.

It's funny that thyroid is mentioned here because I have 2 nodules, one of which was just biopsied for the second time last week. Dr is fairly certain it is cancerous.....so now I'm adding that into my big bag o'anxieties.

Sorry. I think I am rambling here.....I guess I just need support and reassurance that what I'm doing with this is the best choice given the circumstances and I'm not doing anything detrimental.

Leonidas_meets_Spartacus

Some of the cancer patients swear by ketogenic diet, cancer cells are dependent on Glucose/carbs. However, your body can survive on ketones and not depend on carbs. This way, you are not fueling cancer cells with carbs as they can't survive on ketones.

deansdad101

Thank you all for the responses! I was feeling pretty burned out and frustrated and I basically bombed it over the weekend.

Starting fresh today, going to shoot for keeping the carbs under 20 - 25 all week and I will watch the fat to make sure it's high enough.

I have high cholesterol, always have, since my 20's. It's genetic. (I take a statin, and at first I thought that was causing the stall -- I'm off it at the moment for that reason.) I think the reason I have trouble hitting the fat the way I need to for this, is in the back of my mind.....I'm super paranoid about the cholesterol issue. To the point where, if I eat too much high fat stuff I start to get very anxious that I'm ruining my health and going to die of a heart attack.....you know, like tomorrow.

I'm choosing this lifestyle over others because it's worked for me in the past, because it's very well suited to my tastes and preferences, and because type 2 diabetes is a huge issue (at least as big, if not bigger than the cholesterol) with the women in my family. I need to cut down my simple carbs and my sugars NOW if I'm going to have any chance at avoiding that particular fate.....or at least that is my reasoning.

It's funny that thyroid is mentioned here because I have 2 nodules, one of which was just biopsied for the second time last week. Dr is fairly certain it is cancerous.....so now I'm adding that into my big bag o'anxieties.

Sorry. I think I am rambling here.....I guess I just need support and reassurance that what I'm doing with this is the best choice given the circumstances and I'm not doing anything detrimental.

CAR:

You are, at least IMO, doing EXACTLY the "right" things to address your concerns and issues.

As others have said, the number of clinical trial results demonstrating positive results in virtually all of the areas which are directly relevant to your situation (T2D, Cholesterol levels, even growth of cancer cells, grows almost daily.

Regarding cholesterol specifically, be certain that your doc does a full count test (not just the simple 5 cent variety most docs do in office. The evidence is compelling now that it's not just LDL + HDL = Total. Much more important is the makeup of the LDL number (dense vs buoyant cells) so you'll want to have a baseline on which to compare your progress.

If you haven't already, I would encourage you in the strongest terms possible to learn all you can on your own as to "why" a LCHF lifestyle is the best course for you given your circumstances and concerns. You have received a good deal of info here but the more you can gain, the better prepared you'll be when dealing with the medical "professionals" (many of who remain locked in the past when it comes to diet and nutrition).

Some of the other threads here have a number of links that will prove worthwhile and these two are where I'd start if you haven't already: Both are available in ebook fashion and relatively cheap. (under $20 for both)

http://tinyurl.com/llp69au

http://tinyurl.com/ojgwlvb

The three authors are, arguably, the three "top" researchers/authors/"experts" in the field and have earned the respect they garner.

You might also do a search using their names in youtube as there are a number of videos (many of lectures they have delivered to the research community) available for free.

Best of luck on your journey.

Leonidas_meets_Spartacus

Some of the cancer patients swear by ketogenic diet, cancer cells are dependent on Glucose/carbs. However, your body can survive on ketones and not depend on carbs. This way, you are not fueling cancer cells with carbs as they can't survive on ketones.

Not all cancers.

Not true, its not all patients not so much on cancers. There are multiple large studies which showed that multiple cancers could be slowed down with ketogenic diets. Not every patient saw the same result.

DAM5412

CARoberts73, I am so sorry to hear that you are being screened for cancer. I will be pulling for you from afar! I can't imagine the stress you are feeling, but it sounds like you are not sitting idle, instead you are doing what you can and focusing on what is controllable. Good for you.

I have recently started LCHF, and also have concerns about both diabetes (both parents insulin dependent) and cholesterol (mom last year had triple bypass), but will work with my doctor and nutritionist to monitor not just my weight, but also my health.

Just keep at it and keep in communication with your doctors and be flexible to modify if/as needed.

CARoberts73

CAR:

You are, at least IMO, doing EXACTLY the "right" things to address your concerns and issues.

As others have said, the number of clinical trial results demonstrating positive results in virtually all of the areas which are directly relevant to your situation (T2D, Cholesterol levels, even growth of cancer cells, grows almost daily......

Thank you. I have done a bit of research, but I find it really overwhelms me and, as I work on the internet, I have learned to maintain a healthy skepticism about what I read. For that reason I am VERY grateful for the links and authors. That is one big thing I really needed. I don't mind doing independent research but having someone point me to respectable, proven, experienced sources.....that's invaluable -- thanks.

CARoberts73

CARoberts73, I am so sorry to hear that you are being screened for cancer. I will be pulling for you from afar! I can't imagine the stress you are feeling, but it sounds like you are not sitting idle, instead you are doing what you can and focusing on what is controllable. Good for you.

I have recently started LCHF, and also have concerns about both diabetes (both parents insulin dependent) and cholesterol (mom last year had triple bypass), but will work with my doctor and nutritionist to monitor not just my weight, but also my health.

Just keep at it and keep in communication with your doctors and be flexible to modify if/as needed.

Thank you

I know that thyroid cancer is, in most cases, highly treatable so I'm not freaking out as much as I would be otherwise.....but it's definitely in the back of my mind at all times. I appreciate the support.

ali59oc

A big part of my reason for choosing this way of eating was the cancer outcomes. I have had 13 melanoma skin cancers removed and i can't count the number of squamous cell carcinomas, there have been so many. I am anxiously waiting to see if this WOE has helped me in this regard.

I know exactly what you mean about thinking you're going to drop dead at any moment from all the fat!!! It takes a while to get the "food pyramid" fat idea out of your head and the keto fat idea in. I'm pretty over it now but it did take me a long time to think "fat is good".

You're doing great! Keep reading information, the groups here are fantastic, too. My favorite book is "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living".. It just makes sense.

deansdad101

I thought about this on the way home from school. It doesn't make sense. If all cancers feed on glucose, then diong a ketogenic diet would starve the cancer. It won't provide energy for the cancer. The system(cancer in this case) can be sustained without energy(glucose). So all cancers should be treatable with a ketogenic diet, which we both know isn't true.

Pu;

I hope you can forgive (and indulge) my preference for actual research over that which you "(know) doesn't make sense." but even if not, I'm guessing there are folks that might.

http://tinyurl.com/nhr7nbe
http://tinyurl.com/nkr8rhx
http://tinyurl.com/6kpmbgt
http://tinyurl.com/nz7v4kj

No one is saying "...all cancers..." OR that the research to date suggests that "...all cancers should be treatable...." OR even that the research can't be challenged on any number of basses.

Of course it would be nice if the studies were longer term, involved more subjects or were constructed closer to the design you might prefer - but they are what they are so far and a very large part of what they are is ENCOURAGING.

CARoberts73

A big part of my reason for choosing this way of eating was the cancer outcomes. I have had 13 melanoma skin cancers removed and i can't count the number of squamous cell carcinomas, there have been so many. I am anxiously waiting to see if this WOE has helped me in this regard.

I know exactly what you mean about thinking you're going to drop dead at any moment from all the fat!!! It takes a while to get the "food pyramid" fat idea out of your head and the keto fat idea in. I'm pretty over it now but it did take me a long time to think "fat is good".

You're doing great! Keep reading information, the groups here are fantastic, too. My favorite book is "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living".. It just makes sense.

Wow! OK well, if nothing else, your story puts my anxieties about one little thyroid nodule into better perspective!

I was looking at that exact book yesterday on Amazon, only 10 bucks for kindle, I think I will pick it up today.

Thanks~

deansdad101

A big part of my reason for choosing this way of eating was the cancer outcomes. I have had 13 melanoma skin cancers removed and i can't count the number of squamous cell carcinomas, there have been so many. I am anxiously waiting to see if this WOE has helped me in this regard.

I know exactly what you mean about thinking you're going to drop dead at any moment from all the fat!!! It takes a while to get the "food pyramid" fat idea out of your head and the keto fat idea in. I'm pretty over it now but it did take me a long time to think "fat is good".

You're doing great! Keep reading information, the groups here are fantastic, too. My favorite book is "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living".. It just makes sense.

Wow! OK well, if nothing else, your story puts my anxieties about one little thyroid nodule into better perspective!

I was looking at that exact book yesterday on Amazon, only 10 bucks for kindle, I think I will pick it up today.

Thanks~

CAR;

If you have the time take a look at this video interview with Dr Stephen Phinney (co-author of Art and Science).

http://tinyurl.com/o5u7z6x

It's only about a half hour long and puts a "face" to the name as well as gives some good background on his degree of expertise and knowledge.

CARoberts73

It's been added to the list of saved resources, DeansDad, thank you!