Net Carbs?+ going over protein

MissLakeTime

I've been eating Quest bars a few times which puts me way over my less than 20g of carbs but after deducting the fiber I am good if looking at Net Carbs. My doctor (who I now think may be an idiot) told me a carb is a carb. Basically saying if I put a carb in my mouth if I don't exercise to burn it then it will be stored as fat. So how many of you are measuring net carbs or are you measuring carbs? I like the Quest bars (Double Chocolate Chunk) because of the fiber and also cause I get to satisfy my chocolate craving.

Quest Bars Chocolate Chunk:

Calories: 160
Fat: 6g (Sat FAt 2.5g & Trans Fat0)
Carbs: 25g - - package advertises 3g net carbs
Fiber: 16g
Sugars 1g
Protein: 20g

Also, I seem to be going over my protein% every day but not using up all my fat%. Is that horrible?

mrsfancyab

Some days I take in more protein too, but you don't want that to be a habit, because the protein will store in your body as glucose if you eat too much.

I always subtract my dietary fiber.

sljohnson1207

I've been eating Quest bars a few times which puts me way over my less than 20g of carbs but after deducting the fiber I am good if looking at Net Carbs. My doctor (who I now think may be an idiot) told me a carb is a carb. Basically saying if I put a carb in my mouth if I don't exercise to burn it then it will be stored as fat. So how many of you are measuring net carbs or are you measuring carbs? I like the Quest bars (Double Chocolate Chunk) because of the fiber and also cause I get to satisfy my chocolate craving.

Quest Bars Chocolate Chunk:

Calories: 160
Fat: 6g (Sat FAt 2.5g & Trans Fat0)
Carbs: 25g - - package advertises 3g net carbs
Fiber: 16g
Sugars 1g
Protein: 20g

Also, I seem to be going over my protein% every day but not using up all my fat%. Is that horrible?

What?!?! If you don't exercise, you won't burn it off, and it will be stored as fat??? Does your doctor know that you have a BMR? You are going to burn some carbs whether you exercise deliberately or not.

If your doctor has you on <20 total carbs per day, and doesn't have you on at least 75% fats, then something is wrong with what he says, because when you eat too much protein, your body turns it to sugar, and can store it as fat, too...just like carbs/sugar that don't get used up.

The reason your bar shows 3 net carbs is because they are subtracting fiber and sugar alcohols (erythritol), too. Get your fats up, try to eat within the carb limit (net carbs = 20), and keep your protein moderate.

Try for at least 5% carbs, 70% fat, 20% protein. So, if you were at 1600 cals, that would be 20 NET carbs, 124 g fats, 80 g protein. Drink plenty of water, watch out for eating too many artificial sweeteners and sugar alcohols, and use sodium on your food (don't go overboard, but don't restrict either).

BansheeCat

Ever since the growing conclusions that calories burn off differently depending on the source (hence some needing the keto or low carb diet vs low fat diet to have an effect on weight-loss and health) ----A carb being a carb is debatable until studies can prove it definitively IMO.

Carbs vs Net Carbs:
It all depends on the individual. Some people can be in ketosis with net carbs, higher carcbs (like 70 or 80 net), while some must count whole carbs or very low carb. I count net carbs and that works for me. They contribute 10% of my daily calories.

I agree with the other poster in regards to too much protein. Fat is your primary source of calories on Keto. Try to maintain higher grams of fat over protein. Not only do you prevent protein to glucose conversion but you're also protecting your kidneys and other organs. I have a friend who lost his due to high protein diet and had to get a transplant.

I take a daily walk with the dogs and started strength training. I've lost weight not exercising but this is isn't true for everyone. It might have something to do with Lean Body Mass. When body builders go on Keto to cut---a large percentage limit themselves to once a week if at all.

BansheeCat

Lean Muscle Mass not Lean Body Mass. If we had that we'd be doing tequila shots in Cabo wearing body baring bikinis.

deansdad101

I've been eating Quest bars a few times which puts me way over my less than 20g of carbs but after deducting the fiber I am good if looking at Net Carbs. My doctor (who I now think may be an idiot) told me a carb is a carb. Basically saying if I put a carb in my mouth if I don't exercise to burn it then it will be stored as fat. So how many of you are measuring net carbs or are you measuring carbs? I like the Quest bars (Double Chocolate Chunk) because of the fiber and also cause I get to satisfy my chocolate craving.

Quest Bars Chocolate Chunk:

Calories: 160
Fat: 6g (Sat FAt 2.5g & Trans Fat0)
Carbs: 25g - - package advertises 3g net carbs
Fiber: 16g
Sugars 1g
Protein: 20g

Also, I seem to be going over my protein% every day but not using up all my fat%. Is that horrible?

MLT;

"Idiot" may not be the best choice of words but "a carb is a carb" is almost as ignorant as "a calorie is a calorie" so there's little doubt about the "may be an...." part.

I'm not a fan of the Q-bars but NOT because of the carbs (which are actually 3 net as advertised - 25 - 16 - 6 (sugar alcohols) = 3).
Many have concerns with sugar alcohols in general (primarily due to gastric impacts) but the Erythritol contained in the bars appears to have less negative consequences that most other sugar substitutes.

The problem is the Protein - 20g is close to 25% of the daily total for many and that's in just one bar.

As you've seen, hitting daily macro targets isn't always easy and it seems that adding a food high in one item throws off another.
Fat too low, add meat, adds cals and no carbs but it throws protein out of whack.

The only way I am able to get even close on the daily totals is by planning the day ahead and adding or dropping items or adjusting portion sizes. Yes there are times where you just can't do it and yes it's a bit of a pain but it really does get a lot easier as time goes on.

For example, our breakfasts are pretty routine - basic 2 egg omelette to which we add cheese, spinach, bacon, garlic, whatever meat we have leftover, mushrooms or any other vegetables. On a day where we are planning a high fat, high protein dinner we might leave out the cheese and bacon due to the high protein and add more veggies for a total of 16 - 17 proteins all told.

A quick look at your diary shows a number of what I call "trick" foods that are whacking you hard in the area of protein in an attempt to meet the claims of "low carb" - powders, bars, a scoop of this or bar of that.

I'm guessing that you are currently eithercaught between different (diet) world concepts and beliefs, or, transitioning from one to another. Given the level of informed support and advice you've received from the "doc" it's no wonder.
5 "meals" a day,
CICO,
Boost up protein levels with supplements,
A carb is a carb
etc, etc, etc.

MrsF is exactly correct - excess protein IS a problem - more is NOT better.

Too low on fat AND too high on protein on any given day isn't "horrible", BUT on a continuous basis it absolutely can be not only counter productive (re weight loss) but also downright dangerous, health wise.

And, as you've seen, reducing cals isn't the solution when you notice that proteins are going over (that just aggrevates the problem by pushing the % well over 30%).

Dump the shakes, bars, etc and UP the fresh veggies.

The more you can home cook, the easier it will be to meet the targets (Many just can't due to schedules, jobs, other obligations, whatever, but IF you can, it really helps). For example, here's a taco soup recipe that appears to be significantly lower in macros than the one you are using - can't vouch for how it tastes but might be worth a try.
http://tinyurl.com/pdjvl58

ali59oc

I try to eat simple foods so a Quest bar (or anything like that) wouldn't be on my list. Too much protein is definitely a problem. I stalled big time upping my protein and am now back at 5/20/75 and feeling much better.

My doctor was a firm believer in calorie counting in January when we both started diets. She chose WW, I chose Keto. She read me the riot act, my cholesterol was going to go through the roof, etc.. Nine months later, she has lost 0 pounds and I've lost 60. I'm off all bp meds and my cholesterol numbers are perfect. She has even been consulting with a fellow doctor who is a big advocate of LCHF. She just had to see it for herself. NOW she's a fan! So some doctors can learn!

hookilau

There are a whole lot of variables that can make a difference. I can only tell you about my experience.

I'm T2D and my macros are set according to 'Optimal Ketogenic Living' plan because I still have 10-15 #'s of fat to lose. Recommendations are based on Phinney & Volek.

The premise is to 'feed' your lean body mass the protein it requires, keep below the carb limit of said lean body mass & let the fat fall where it may. There *is* a range for fat and while I'm still losing weight, I keep to the lower end of that. When I decide maintenance is in order, I'll up the fats again.

This is coming up on my second week with this change in macros, increase in protein, decrease in fat & less than 20g of NET carbs.

When I first tried to get my BG under control, I had to count gross carbs, as I continued on my Keto diet, and things normalized, I'm now able to work with net carbs.

Previously, I had to balance my gross carbs with blood sugar in mind. However, this turned out to be a double edged sword for me. I eat to my meter, this did not mesh well with keto goals, as I found that as my control became better, I could eat well over 75g of carbs (gross) and get good BG numbers. However, I began to put on weight & got kind of dumpy in the middle -____-

All of this despite weight training 3 x weekly & 3 30 minute dog walks per day.

Currently, I eat about 100g of protein per day, less than 20g of carbs & under 100g of fat if I can manage it.
I'm 45 yrs old, 5' tall & weight is 126#

I get even better BG's than I did before (Fasting ranges from 75-90 mg/dl,1 hour PP never goes higher than 120mg/dl and a casual BG usually finds me btw 105 & 115 mg/dl).

I used to try to keep protein low but since trying the macros this group (OKL) suggests, I've lost size & the additional weight I had put on during my foray into higher carbs.

Anyhow, for what it's worth, that's my experience. YMMV. :drinker:

While I'm NOT a fan of FB, the guidelines of the group *does* make sense & as someone who had been stalled since LAST NOVEMBER I'm pretty happy with the way things are going now.

ETA: to be a little more clear, I used gross carbs to get and maintain low BG's, I use net carbs to keep Keto for fat loss :drinker:
Using net carbs for less than 20g of carb for Keto purposes, just happens to keep the limit of both balanced.

MissLakeTime

Latest from my doctor:

I said:
Right now on MFP, my goals are set at which mimics a lchf diet/keto:
1200 calories
Carbs/Day 15g = 5%
Fat/Day 100.0g = 75%
Protein/Day 60.0 = 20%

HIS EMAIL RESPONSE AFTER MY ABOVE MESSAGE:

Your LACK of appropriate protein consumption contributes to fat preservation. If you need another copy of the metabolic management plan, I will be happy to provide it to you on Thursday. Proteins break down into Amino Acids which are then only absorbed if your body has a need for them. The only calorie counting anyone should ever do is for exercise to determine the amount of carbohydrates they need to consume (carb load) to pay for the vigorous energy expenditure.

Otherwise, if you are carb restricting, you are making your glucose from burning 3 parts of fat and 1 part of protein. If the protein is not there because you are not following the plan (eating or preferably drinking a protein shake containing 35 grams of protein), then the sugar does not get produced which means the fat that would have been used to make that sugar stays in place as unused fat (slow fat burning).

Fat, nor cholesterol, does not make people fat or have high cholesterol as, like proteins, fats also get broken down into the components of free fatty acids which also are only absorbed if you have a need for them (building blocks or to burn as a fuel source).

Carbs consumed and not immediately spent is what leads to fat production. Period!

At 35 grams of protein every 3 hours, you should be hitting a minimum of 175 grams daily. I don't care how much fat you eat although the more you eat, the less of your own fat will be used as the fuel source.

FIT_Goat

His response is "interesting" to say the least.

That said, there is some support that eating 30g+ of protein 3+ times a day does increase muscle rebuilding and synthesis--which burns extra calories. I don't have it in front of me but the science was discussed in the book "The Calorie Myth" by Johnathan Bailor. He states that the University of Illinois has found that this amount can trigger the creation of 250g of new tissue/day and burn approximately 540-720 calories in that process. I don't see it as necessary to eat every 3 hours, though. And trying to hit 175g a day seems a bit excessive. If you're hitting 175g, I hope your calories are higher than 1,200. You don't want protein to represent more than 50% of your calories.

I see this as you needing to make a decision. Are you going to continue with your doctor's plan or are you going to try a more traditional keto plan? Either way is fine, but I don't think you'll be able to do both. Your doctor is suggesting protein far in excess of what keto advocates would recommend. Even Lyle McDonald suggests 150g for the first 3 weeks and then backing off on it.

Personally, I think either one is fine. I'm much more tolerant of high protein intakes than some people around here. Still, I would make a decision and stick to one plan. Trying to blend both together is just going to be confusing, less effective, and give you a strained relationship with your doctor--even more than just telling him you're not doing his plan at all, because blending both makes it seem like you're just not being compliant with the plan and not that you've made a choice to ignore it.

kristafb

Your doctors approach is similar to the OKL groups , where the protein is a lot higher than traditional keto. I tried it for about a month and initially lost pounds that had been stubborn on regular keto. But now I'm gaining so I'm going back to traditional macros. I think if you are not comfortable with what your doctor is telling you to do the best thing to do is educate yourself and look for a physician who agrees and supports you.

As far as quest bars go, I eat them on occasion (very rarely) and have no ill effect from them.