Spreadsheet vs. Scooby?

anask4

Hey everyone. I am having trouble deciding if I should use Heybale's spreadsheet or the "Accurate Calorie Calculator" (which takes body fat into account) on the scooby site to determine my TDEE. I am male, 19, 5'6", 16.4% body fat (according to the skin fold test from the spreadsheet), and weigh 140 lbs. I can only go to the gym twice a week because I am a college student.

In the exercise section on the spreadsheet, I enter 40 minutes a week of intense cardio, and 120 minutes of weight lifting. I dont enter anything in the daily activity section because I dont want to overestimate my TDEE. The spreadsheet says my TDEE is 2100, and a 15% deficit would put me at 1785 calories a day. On the scooby site I enter 3-5 hours a week of moderate exercise along with my BF % and it states my TDEE is about 2350. With a 15% deficit, my daily calorie goal would be 2000 calories.

My current goal is to drop my body fat down to 10-12% before bulking, I dont really care too much about what the scale says anymore.
With all of this in mind, which number should I use as my TDEE?

P.S. is a 15% deficit optimal for steady fat loss while maintaining LBM?

heybales

Since I'm biased I'll comment on the deficit part.
Minor deficit, enough protein, and strength training, have each on their own been shown in lab studies to help retain muscle mass (which is merely a part of LBM). But you should lose LBM, because you need less blood with loss body, less water with less body, ect. But those studies have shown muscle mass can be kept.
Since rarely is anyone getting the tests out the wazoo a research study would give you starting and during a diet study, doing all 3 is a great way to insure retaining muscle mass.
And you are going to try to do all 3, so I'd suggest safe.

But the reason why I used 2 studies to build that activity calculator.

1 hr of running is not the same as 1 hr of walking as 1 hr of lifting. But in the rough 5 level TDEE chart from a 1919 study it is. Plus that chart assumes daily life outside exercise is sedentary desk job with very little else going on. More recent studies have shown it's basis is no longer valid.

When you look at it like that, it's obvious 1 hr of each is not equal.

Is a weekly 5 hrs of walking the same as 3 hrs of lifting?

And how can a 5 level TDEE chart know what your exercise is exactly, or intensity on cardio that can effect the burn so much?

You can get to the same point though - use the 2350 for a month. If you only lose about 1 lb in that month eating 2000, then you'll know the 2100 was indeed closer to reality for TDEE, and you barely had a deficit.

Same with the 2100 and eating 1785, the Progress tab will take a months data of eating levels and what you lost in weight and help you tweak the Activity calc for true weight loss based TDEE going forward.

I'll also mention that many with Fitbit's or BodyMedia's were surprised that when they were honest with the activity levels and time, it came out within 5% of their device.

The better activity calc was merely to hone in on a best estimate, rather than waiting and see if results matched expectations.
I figured if so many were going to hammer down on the food side of the equation for accuracy licking a spoon, then why not get best estimate on the burn side too?

Also, if that was your own measuring of skinfolds, I'd use the measurement method averaged in, because in the hands of a skilled person, skinfold can be upwards of 5% accurate, but in non-skilled hands, way out potentially. At least if you average it in with measurement calc's used, your potential variance is narrowed down.

And lifting 2 x weekly is just fine.

anask4

Thanks for the advice! The U.S navy circumfrence method says my body fat is about 16.7% and the Covert Bailey method says about 11.42%. The skinfold said 16.4%. The average body fat given is 14.83%. I am hesitant to use the average value because the Covert Bailey method is giving me a much lower body fat percentage than the other two. Is the covert bailey method as viable as the other two?

Also, I never did a reset because at the end of August I went on a two week vacation during which I ate and drank whatever I wanted. Do you think I still need the reset or should I just stick to the 15% deficit?

heybales

You'll be able to tell real fast, guys do recover faster, more muscle mass and better hormones.
If you lose around what was expected, then that was long enough. If still very low, move on up in case body just adapted down quickly. In studies eating at lab measured TDEE, after 3 months, what had been suppressed by about 500 below what could have been, at risen to only being suppressed by about 250. Now, they did not attempt to eat at what TDEE could have been, but rather the measured suppressed value, and the body still repaired some. Would have been nice to see how fast recovery eating closer to potential TDEE, not suppressed. But study was on the effects of adaptation, not recovery.

The Navy and Covert use mainly different body parts, that's why it's a good combo on average. There was one other that had good ratings for certain BMI's, but these 2 actually were at the top for a wide range of body types, which I wanted to use.

But, you may know exactly which measurement of a body part is a tad out of proportion to rest of the body. Perhaps you know forearm is really big for small wrist, that'll throw it off.
You can test if you have a couple thoughts as to which measurement you think is the one making it a bad calculation for you to use.
Just change some of the values until it's more in line, then you'll know and can agree or disagree.

But indeed, use the correct measurements - but leave it out of your own average. Like J-Lo and her, huh, hip measurement, would throw it off big time.

Covert for guys uses - abs, hips, forearm, wrist.
Navy for guys uses - abs, neck, height.

But even if you use the average, meaning it appears your BMR and TDEE are higher than reality, after a month the Progress tab TDEE calc will help nail exact TDEE, and Activity calc adjustment will wipe out that issue. Besides the fact as fat is lost they usually tighten up. Though again, genetics and body parts, may have one part always bigger.