Assaulting Assault Weaponry...
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n003k
Posts: 58
Who else here is from a state that has determined some weapons due to their looks are too dangerous for the populace to own?
Personally, here in CT we have an AWB, only saving grace is no magazine capacity laws to go with it! That said, I recently picked up a preban Bushmaster AR, so I got my bayonet lug! Now to get a bayonet...
Personally, here in CT we have an AWB, only saving grace is no magazine capacity laws to go with it! That said, I recently picked up a preban Bushmaster AR, so I got my bayonet lug! Now to get a bayonet...
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As if you don't have enough bayonets lying around this joint! As you well know, I too live in CT, a state with an AWB
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No matter how bad you think gun laws are in the US consider yourselves very lucky.
The laws over here in Ireland are insane.
Pump action or semi-auto shotguns can't have a capacity of more than three rounds (including one in the chamber).
No pistols over .22 rimfire (and then only pistols that are for use in Olympic Target shooting)
Practical Pistol Shooting competitions are banned.
A telescopic sight requires a separate licence from the gun.
A sound suppressor (silencer) requires a separate licence
Each magazine for a firearm needs a separate licence
If you have any more than one firearm you must have a gun safe
If you own a centrefire rifle, the building must have an alarm
If you own more than 3 firearms, the alarm must be monitored remotely by a security company
To get a licence, you must provide details of a doctor who will give a character reference for you in addition to the details of two other people who will give a character reference.
Crossbows and pepper-spray are illegal and can't be licensed at all.
:noway: :grumble:0 -
Oof! I knew it was bad and a good bit of that, but some of it still is surprising.
The scopes and silences key among them, often times I've heard that in most European countries use of silencers by gun owners is encouraged, is the licensing for them mainly a Ireland thing? Or are the rumors that make it over here wholly inaccurate?
The only thing really comparable is the fact that we also need to go through a special process for silencers though, takes 4-5months on average, but just makes sure you're not a felon basically.0 -
Well each European Country has different laws about firearms. As far as I know, England is about the only other country that is as restrictive as our laws.Oof! I knew it was bad and a good bit of that, but some of it still is surprising.
The scopes and silences key among them, often times I've heard that in most European countries use of silencers by gun owners is encouraged, is the licensing for them mainly a Ireland thing? Or are the rumors that make it over here wholly inaccurate?
The only thing really comparable is the fact that we also need to go through a special process for silencers though, takes 4-5months on average, but just makes sure you're not a felon basically.
The Government claim that having such restrictive gun laws is to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals. Strangely enough, most of the firearms being seized from criminals are fully automatic weapons. They've never been available to buy over here. So that sort of makes a mockery of the reason for the restrictive gun laws.
If you break down what I posted above:-
To own a centrefire rifle with a detachable magazine, a telescopic sight and a silencer, you would need:-
1 licence for the rifle
1 licence for the magazine
1 licence for the telescopic sight
1 licence for the silencer
A gun safe
And an alarm on your house0 -
The rules in the UK are restrictive, but we can't have the .22 pistols that you can, however, we can hold and attend practical shotgun competitions. In fact I was at one on Sunday.
I hold both an FAC (firearms certificate) and a shotgun license. To get an FAC, it's a long process and you have to prove a need such as target shooting or pest control. However for me, if we have to have restrictions, I would prefer it to be HARDER to get certified, but once certified, stop messing around with the calibres we can have. Every gun has a capacity to be lethal; it’s the person holding it that makes the difference. I'm happy with restrictions on people, not the calibres.
Having said that, the majority of gun crime in the UK is as a result of non-legal weapons, but it’s enough to produce more restrictions on the target shooting sport I love despite the fact that myself and all the people I know in the sport are law abiding, well balanced and in the main highly intelligent professional people.
Ooo, it’s a bit scary up here on my high horse....0 -
Ooo, it’s a bit scary up here on my high horse....
Well get down off the high horse and stand on the soap box beside me.
:laugh:0 -
We definitely are lucky over here...if I want to buy a rifle, I need only go to a gun shop, put down the money, and fill out a simple form. Some states have waiting periods, including mine, but with certain licensing, either to hunt or to carry a gun, you get that waived. I could even buy or sell a gun off of a friend.
And Bfit40, it's the same here really as far as the anti-gun groups go. Most guns used in crimes AREN'T legally purchased, or owned legally...yet the solution so many put forward is to limit what those that obey the law can do, or what they have to do to own the guns. California for example banned .50caliber rifles, to prevent them being used in crime. Seriously though, who carries around a 6-7foot long gun to hold someone up?0 -
Thomas - I have a Benelli M3 which is both semi and pump action 7 +1. It sits on my FAC, not my shotgun certificate because of the capacity. Do the restrictions in Ireland mean that you couldn't own one?0
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Thomas - I have a Benelli M3 which is both semi and pump action 7 +1. It sits on my FAC, not my shotgun certificate because of the capacity. Do the restrictions in Ireland mean that you couldn't own one?
Because it uses a shotgun cartridge it isn't classifiable as anything other than a shotgun.
The only way we could own the Benelli M3 would be to have a gunsmith permanently restrict it so that only two rounds can be put into the magazine tube. The restriction would have to be a metal plug welded into the magazine tube so it couldn't be removed.0 -
Bummer. Guess I won't be moving to Ireland anytime soon....Thomas - I have a Benelli M3 which is both semi and pump action 7 +1. It sits on my FAC, not my shotgun certificate because of the capacity. Do the restrictions in Ireland mean that you couldn't own one?
Because it uses a shotgun cartridge it isn't classifiable as anything other than a shotgun.
The only way we could own the Benelli M3 would be to have a gunsmith permanently restrict it so that only two rounds can be put into the magazine tube. The restriction would have to be a metal plug welded into the magazine tube so it couldn't be removed.0 -
Bummer. Guess I won't be moving to Ireland anytime soon....
If you like owning a gun, I wouldn't recommend it.
If the country was ever invaded, the resistance would consist of people running around with baseball bats. :laugh:0 -
Bummer. Guess I won't be moving to Ireland anytime soon....
If you like owning a gun, I wouldn't recommend it.
If the country was ever invaded, the resistance would consist of people running around with baseball bats. :laugh:
*plots* Muaahahahahaaaaa!0 -
I'm sorry...but I truly dont see the need to own an Assault Weapon. Are you afraid that the you're going to miss with the first round?
I have served in the US Army and qualified for Sniper School (but didnt because I was not going to change my MOS.
I have no issues with having them available, but I dont see an actual NEED. Homes security? can't be. If you are lucky enough to not get hit by my HS Shotgun, I guarantee I wont miss double-tapping you with my PX4 or Glock 23.
Someone please explain what the NEED is? The want, I totally get. The accessability, I totally get. But while, as a member of the NRA, I back the statement that Guns don't Kill People, People Do....the ease of access allows for stupid to get their hands on them...see the iHop massacre here in Carson City, NV as a simple example....
Again, I just want to understand the NEED, not the want.0 -
I'm sorry...but I truly dont see the need to own an Assault Weapon. Are you afraid that the you're going to miss with the first round?
I have served in the US Army and qualified for Sniper School (but didnt because I was not going to change my MOS.
I have no issues with having them available, but I dont see an actual NEED. Homes security? can't be. If you are lucky enough to not get hit by my HS Shotgun, I guarantee I wont miss double-tapping you with my PX4 or Glock 23.
Someone please explain what the NEED is? The want, I totally get. The accessability, I totally get. But while, as a member of the NRA, I back the statement that Guns don't Kill People, People Do....the ease of access allows for stupid to get their hands on them...see the iHop massacre here in Carson City, NV as a simple example....
Again, I just want to understand the NEED, not the want.
In the case of the general public disliking the AWB, I dislike it because of how honestly stupid the rules are (here, anyway.) If I want to have a bayonet lug AND a folding/collapsing stock on my AR15, that somehow makes it more dangerous than just having one or the other. I agree that certain types of people shouldn't own guns in general, but you'll actually be able to do more damage with a semi-auto or manual action weapon than a full auto (has to do with the climb.) So I suppose, no, no one NEEDS an assault rifle, but then again, there shouldn't be a ban against them.0 -
The need? Simple. The 2nd Amendment wasn't meant for hunting or home defense, it was a defense against tyranny, and allowed a culture that prevented something like Egypt or Libya from being necesary here in the US. There is no reason to stop the proud tradition.
In addition, many 'assault rifles', which really is just a name for guns that have 2 of a certain amount of cosmetic or comfort features, CAN be quite useful for home defense, hunting, or general sporting. What is your NEED for a home defense shotgun? What does buckshot do within 20 yards that 2 quick shots from a 5.56 or 7.62x39 wont accomplish? Especially with the newer tailor made defense and hunting rounds for them.
Also, explain to me how a gun with the following is more dangerous than say, a 12gauge semi with buckshot.
AR-15 with collapsing stock, flash hider/threaded barrel, detachable magazine, pistol grip, and bayonet lug.
That AR is a quintessential assault weapon. Only attribute it's missing is a grenade launcher (And do note, we're talking the type such as the m59/66 Yugo SKS has, not an M203 which qualifies as it's own weapon, and doesn't count towards the AWB parts.)
That collapsing stock will allow a shorter person to be comfortable shouldering it, as opposed to one set length off the bat. That flash suppressor or threaded barrel wont make one bit of difference either way whether you're using it for crime, or for legal activities. Detachable mag? Why the heck not. It's a simple feature that most weapons now have for convenience. Pistol grip also allows a more comfortable and ergonomic grip. The bayonet lug? It lets me put a pointy piece of metal on the end. Utterly useless for almost any activity legal or otherwise outside of a warzone. But for purists that like their weapons to look authentic, the lack of it is just a big glaring FU from the government.
My personal need for it is nil I'll add. However just because I don't NEED it, doesn't mean no one does. In addition, can you tell me how that iHop massacre would have been any less deadly if he had a pump action shotgun with an extended tube? Any pistol with a double stack magazine? A 'sporting' rifle that is semi auto, like say the FNAR?
Remember, different strokes for different folks. You might be comfortable with your shotgun and PX4 or G23. I'm comfortable with my CZ83 and my Benelli Supernova. Some people prefer rifles over shotguns though, and why tell them that because their rifle of choice, one developed with CQB in mind at that, is inferior or useless and they don't need it, would be rather insulting to them, and is shortsighted IMO.0 -
To everyone, please keep in mind my one Golden Rule when it comes to debates. Everyone is doing great thus far, but make sure to keep it that way. Thanks!0
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This has been edited by brittanyjeanxo. As stated, the ONE rule I have in this group is absolutely NO personal attacks. If you can't have a civil debate and insist on acting like a child, you will be treated as such. I will not hesitate to remove you from the group and report you to the moderators. Feel free to continue the debate if you think you can keep it civil. Thank you.0
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This is in reply to BigDaddyBRC's post that has since been edited out:
First off, I didn't say the 2nd Amendment was a culture, I said it ALLOWED a culture that helps PREVENT the need for a Libya or Egypt situation. Another way of wording it would be to say we don't HAVE to worry about it, because we have these weapons available to us, so the odds of the government going that far are exceptionally slim. Perhaps you should reread what I said in regard to that.
As far as high velocity piercing rounds, they make hollowpoints and various other cartridges that minimize penetration. Including frangible rounds. Also, that extra barrel length will MINIMIZE the chance of a miss when one isn't thinking clearly. Easier to be sure that 16" barrel thats on your shoulder is lined up with the guy in your house, than your 3.5". Also, assuming for some reason you DO choose to use a 5.56 FMJ, who says that the person that chooses to use it lives within 1 mile of a neighbor? Not everyone lives in a city or suburb. Once again, different strokes for different folks.
As I said, that AR is the quintessential "Assault Rifle" under law. But that M203 wouldn't make a non-Assault Rifle one either way. So, what is your point?
Local laws also DEFINE an assault rifle. With the federal AWB no longer in effect, there is no legal description in effect for one EXCEPT in localities, such as CT with assault weapon bans on the books. They DEFINE an assault weapon. The difference between an assault weapon is that an assault weapon MUST have a detachable magazine, and two of the following: Flash Suppressor/Threaded Barrel, Pistol grip, Folding/Collapsing Stock, Bayonet Lug, Grenade Launcher (Once again, M203 does NOT count. They refer to the style that attaches to the end of the barrel and requires a blank to use.) So, as you and I agree cosmetics DON'T make a gun more dangerous. And the difference between an assault rifle and non-assault rifle under state laws that define them are cosmetic features.
Also, a pistol has to reload in most cases after NINE SHOTS? Actually, most 9mm magazines are double stacks and easily hold 16+ rounds, as a standard capacity.
In this case, do you really know the difference? You DO realize assault rifles are SEMI AUTO under laws that define them, right? So I pull the trigger, it's ONE SHOT. Just like that semi auto handgun, or semi-auto shotgun. And odds are, rate of fire wont make one bit of difference in a shooting like that.
In addition, to wrap it up, the shooter used a modified chinese AK that was illegally made to fire full auto according to reports I've seen. Odds are it would be rather hard to control on full auto as such, and such guns have faded from primary use for CQB for a reason. Spray and pray is NOT superior to burst firing or single shot firing.
Frankly I'll also add any experience you have overseas or in a war zone is irrelevant, same as any experience I may or may not have. The need is simple, it can fill the NEED for a home defense weapon with a plethora of available ammunition. It can fill the NEED of a hunting rifle should one choose to use it in such a role. And it can serve the NEED of a fun range toy. You might not LIKE it, but that doesn't mean no one has a NEED for it.0 -
Wow...acting like a child? It was a debate. And I asked for the answer to NEED. Which was not answered.
Continue on..as you so shall. I'll leave this. Thanks for the name calling. Love you Mods!0 -
Wow...acting like a child? It was a debate. And I asked for the answer to NEED. Which was not answered.
Continue on..as you so shall. I'll leave this. Thanks for the name calling. Love you Mods!
My ONE rule was no personal attacks or insults. You almost did not go one sentence without insulting n003k. So, by disregarding the rules, you were acting like a child. Feel free to leave, that is your choice. Have a great day!0
