Is prison strict enough?
Grimmerick
Posts: 3,342 Member
Someone mentioned something in our death penalty post and it was a great debate subject. Are our prisons strict enough? It seems like some people dont' mind prison because for some it's easier than living outside on the streets. Should we get rid of television/internet and other non necessitites that make prison more comfortable for inmates. Also keep in mind that some of these extras probably keep the prisoners settled and happy so less riots and violence which keeps the guards safer. Toughie
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Personally, I am of two minds about this. I have seen several prisons, and I know several people that work in them/have worked in them. I even have a former friend who is in prison now.
All that said, I think there needs to be a balance. Prison advocates have worked for decades to get prisons to where they are now. The idea now seems to be to use the prison system as a social work system as well - giving the inmates the opportunity to improve to the point that they don't relapse and come right back to prison after they are released.
While I agree with this idea, and applaud the efforts, only a subset of the total prison population will benefit from this. Numerous studies show only small, but significant, gains in reducing repeat offenders. I am also bothered that inmates have more opportunities than most school kids - many states, inmates can earn bachelor and master degrees for free, have better nutrition meals than can be offered through the school lunch programs, and have free healthcare.
Of course, despite the benefits of being in prison, I certainly don't plan on doing anything to put me in a position to take advantage of those benefits :laugh: .
Personally, I think we need to remove all the amenities - TV, weight rooms, libraries, internet access, etc. Take prison back to just being a consequence for your actions. You sit in a cell most of the day, get just basic meals, some time in a common area or outside to keep you from going insane from being in your cell, and that is it.
Next, reinstate the benefits programs that have a direct impact on reducing repeat offenders, but on a much smaller basis, and have a rigorous qualification process to identify those prisoners who are most likely to not become repeat offenders with the help. I'd initially limit it to first time offenders, with non-violent crimes. Tie performance in the program to an accelerated release, and give them a longer parole period, with requirements to show improvement once they are out.0 -
Sometimes I think not, since there are so many that "don't mind" going.....Where else can you get free rent, cable, exercise rooms, meals, and even an education?
I do somewhat understand why some of these things are necessary, to make a prisoner a better being in our society, but I was watching a show about the Russian prisons, and WOW...
Prison there is no free ride, no matter your charge, you sit in your cell for most of the day, if you are allowed to come out to exercise, then you cannot even walk upright, you must walk bent at the waist, while a prison guard holds your handcuffed arms from behind, you are taken to an enclosed room, where you can run around in a circle for I think am hour. You never see sunlight....there are no windows....there is no tv....there is no radio.....I really don't think they even have books but not sure on that one.....you must address each guard with "Yes officer"...and the food....its like this muck...really....a piece of bread and what looks like something that has been thrown in a blender and pureed.....it has a lovely shade of tan to it...
These people are there to do their time, not hang out, make friends, watch tv, play games, get 3 full course meals each day...now granted, the Russian prison system my be a little extreme, but if we took some of their ways, maybe people here would be a little more reluctant to commit a crime in the first place....it shouldn't be so comfortable that you don't mind going back, it should be a place that you are terrified to go to......0 -
I know many people in an out of prison and ive never once met one that was allowed to use the internet.
also tvs,and such you cant take everything away from these people it will lead to tension and eventually riots makeing it an unsafe enviroment for the gaurds and inmates alike0 -
I do agree with that, but then I think about these prisons in Russia that I saw a show one.....they have never had a riot...at all....and no escapes......and I was actually shocked at that by the way they handle these prisoners....you would think they would lash out any chance they got, but it was quite the opposite...0
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I do agree with that, but then I think about these prisons in Russia that I saw a show one.....they have never had a riot...at all....and no escapes......and I was actually shocked at that by the way they handle these prisoners....you would think they would lash out any chance they got, but it was quite the opposite...
That is such a diffrent culture than ours,if that were the way thing were here ther would be riots.I think the justice system is screwed they are giving to much time for minor offenses.My brother is a parolee he recently got sent up for a year for a violation. You know what his violation was he got a cab home that was pulled over for running a red light,the cab driver had meth an a gun on him so the cops arrested my brother and he was violated for it. hows that for god use of tax payer money that paid for his year in prison0 -
I definitely agree with that one, way too many people crowding up the system for stupid and minor offenses... I mean, people that go to jail and have to do time for driving on suspended license and things like that...I just don't get....give them a fine..and move on....even drug offenses I sometimes think they are too harsh on......0
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The question isn't whether it is strict enough as much as whether it works to reform prisoners. It doesn't.0
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The question isn't whether it is strict enough as much as whether it works to reform prisoners. It doesn't.
no but it being stricter will not reform people,you have to want to reform you cant be forced to0 -
A little info about a Sheriff in Arizona, I think all jails should be run like this one!
Sheriff Joe Arpaio (in Arizona) is doing it RIGHT!! He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them. He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights. Cut off all but "G" movies. He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects. Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.
He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only let in the Disney channel and the weather channel. When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.
He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value. When the inmates complained, he told them.....this is a good one......"This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."
He bought Newt Gingrich's lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place. You have to love this guy!!
More on the AZ Sheriff:
With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record), the Associated Press reports:
About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to
their government-issued pink boxer shorts. On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 degrees inside the week before. Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on their chests and dripped down to their pink socks. "It feels like we are in a furnace," said James Zanzot, an inmate who has lived in the tents for 1 1/2 years. "It's inhumane."
Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is
not one bit sympathetic He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and
they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit any crimes... so shut your damned mouths."0 -
I love Sheriff Joe! We lived in AZ for 5 years and I gladly voted for him every time. He's nuts but he's good at his job.
IMO, prisoners shouldn't get anything that isn't necessary to survive that they wouldn't get for free if they were law abiding citizens. They can get a hugh school diploma/GED but cllege costs law abiding citizens money so no for criminals. I have to pay for cable so why should they get it for free? Prisoners have the right to remain silent. If they don't like prison then don't be a scumbag and they won't go back otherwise STFU.
That said, I think petty offenses such as small amounts of pot, etc aren't part of that. I'm talking identity theives, murderers, rapists, forgery, felony theft, armed robbery, B&E, etc.0 -
All I can say is that I REALLY hope I never find out!0
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A little info about a Sheriff in Arizona, I think all jails should be run like this one!
Sheriff Joe Arpaio (in Arizona) is doing it RIGHT!! He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them. He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights. Cut off all but "G" movies. He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects. Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.
He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only let in the Disney channel and the weather channel. When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.
He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value. When the inmates complained, he told them.....this is a good one......"This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."
He bought Newt Gingrich's lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place. You have to love this guy!!
More on the AZ Sheriff:
With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record), the Associated Press reports:
About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to
their government-issued pink boxer shorts. On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 degrees inside the week before. Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on their chests and dripped down to their pink socks. "It feels like we are in a furnace," said James Zanzot, an inmate who has lived in the tents for 1 1/2 years. "It's inhumane."
Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is
not one bit sympathetic He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and
they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit any crimes... so shut your damned mouths."
Well, if there is any justice in the world, it looks like "Sheriff Joe" is going to get an intimate look at life from the inside. Hope he likes his XXXL sized pink boxers.0 -
Personally, I believe we spend entirely way too much on our federal prison system. Most criminals that serve time in a federal prison come out better fed, fit, and equipped criminals. We need to just go medieval on our prisoners from now on. That way being sentenced to federal prison or jail will actually be a deterrent for big time criminals. No more being able to run your organized crime family from within prison walls.0
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I know many people in an out of prison and ive never once met one that was allowed to use the internet.
also tvs,and such you cant take everything away from these people it will lead to tension and eventually riots makeing it an unsafe enviroment for the gaurds and inmates alike
I don't care if people want to riot and b***h and moan while they're in prison. C.O.'s and guards know what their job is: it's to control the prisoners. Prison is supposed to send a message to criminals that their behavior has serious, potentially life ending consequences. Prison shouldn't be a pleasant experience. PERIOD.0 -
A little info about a Sheriff in Arizona, I think all jails should be run like this one!
Sheriff Joe Arpaio (in Arizona) is doing it RIGHT!! He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them. He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights. Cut off all but "G" movies. He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects. Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.
He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only let in the Disney channel and the weather channel. When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.
He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value. When the inmates complained, he told them.....this is a good one......"This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."
He bought Newt Gingrich's lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place. You have to love this guy!!
More on the AZ Sheriff:
With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record), the Associated Press reports:
About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to
their government-issued pink boxer shorts. On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 degrees inside the week before. Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on their chests and dripped down to their pink socks. "It feels like we are in a furnace," said James Zanzot, an inmate who has lived in the tents for 1 1/2 years. "It's inhumane."
Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is
not one bit sympathetic He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and
they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit any crimes... so shut your damned mouths."
I think Sheriff Joe has got the right idea. The less of my tax dollars that gets spent on feeding, providing shelter, and sequestering criminals from normal society, the better. More county jails used to use chain gains. They need to use them more. I see lots of work that these prisoners can be doing, like picking up litter and mowing grass on state highways, to name a few.
Most criminals who land themselves in jail were not contributing members to society. Why not put them to use while they're inside?? Maybe then they'll gain an appreciation for contributing to the communities that they grew up in.0 -
A little info about a Sheriff in Arizona, I think all jails should be run like this one!
You mean the same Sherrif Joe who has ignored rape victims and not investigated? The man will be seeing how his regime works form the inside. They are currently reinbvetigating four HUNDRED cases that he has screwed up.
But hey, he treats people like ****, he must be a good American!0 -
A little info about a Sheriff in Arizona, I think all jails should be run like this one!
Sheriff Joe Arpaio (in Arizona) is doing it RIGHT!! He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them. He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights. Cut off all but "G" movies. He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects. Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.
He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only let in the Disney channel and the weather channel. When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.
He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value. When the inmates complained, he told them.....this is a good one......"This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."
He bought Newt Gingrich's lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place. You have to love this guy!!
More on the AZ Sheriff:
With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record), the Associated Press reports:
About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to
their government-issued pink boxer shorts. On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 degrees inside the week before. Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on their chests and dripped down to their pink socks. "It feels like we are in a furnace," said James Zanzot, an inmate who has lived in the tents for 1 1/2 years. "It's inhumane."
Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is
not one bit sympathetic He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and
they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit any crimes... so shut your damned mouths."
I think Sheriff Joe has got the right idea. The less of my tax dollars that gets spent on feeding, providing shelter, and sequestering criminals from normal society, the better. More county jails used to use chain gains. They need to use them more. I see lots of work that these prisoners can be doing, like picking up litter and mowing grass on state highways, to name a few.
Most criminals who land themselves in jail were not contributing members to society. Why not put them to use while they're inside?? Maybe then they'll gain an appreciation for contributing to the communities that they grew up in.
It's posts like these make me realise that there's more than just an ocean between our two nations.
Shudder.
Yes, let's let crazed sadists run our prisons. That's going to work....0 -
It works better than treating rapists and child molesters better than law abiding citizens who are down on their luck. Where else but America would someone rob a bank, then sit and wait for the police? Some guy did that recently because he couldn't get medical care because he didn't have insurance. So he figured he'd commit a crime, go to prison, and get the medical attention he needed. Welcome to Amerika! Give us your poor, your hungry, your down trodden - and we'll bash them, make fun of them, and tell them to hurry up and die already. :rolleyes:0
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I'd rather see prisoners spend their days living as normal a life as possible. To me, jail/prison is meant to keep people from living in society. It is meant to take away their freedom. It shouldn't be a means of treating them as less a human being. I don't think they need internet and computer time, but I have no issue with decent meals and some form of entertainment. I know I'd go crazy being locked up in a cell all day with no interaction. That should not be the goal of our prison system.0
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i think the fact that life is better for some in prison, does not mean that prison is too tough, more that life is unreasonably *kitten* for many. How awful must your life be if youd rather be in jail than live your normal life?0
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Really? You knowingly supported someone you believe is nuts? Wow,,,I love Sheriff Joe! We lived in AZ for 5 years and I gladly voted for him every time. He's nuts but he's good at his job.
<<SNIP>>
I guess sheriff Joe's plan to discourage immigration by decriminalizing the abuse and molestation of brown kids may land him in some hot water. Classy guy,,,
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While riding my motorcycle I was hit by a kid in a car running from the cops. Ugly crash - if I hadn't gotten my motorcycle into the ditch I would've been killed. If I'd been in a car I probably would have been killed. As it is I climbed into the ambulance with a nasty compound fracture to the right wrist. The kid who hit me is doing 2 years for Aggravated Vehicular Assault.
To me the question is not "Is prison strict enough?" The question is "What are they going to do with this kid in 24 months to teach him not to do crap like that anymore?!?!" I still ride a motorcycle, this kid's only 24 years old, what are they doing to keep this from happening again?
I met him. talked with him. Decent kid, bad choices. We talk about "rehabilitation", but I don't like that term. This kid was never 'habilitated' in the first place. Somebody needs to teach him how to function as a member of a modern society. How do you do that?0 -
Really? You knowingly supported someone you believe is nuts? Wow,,,I love Sheriff Joe! We lived in AZ for 5 years and I gladly voted for him every time. He's nuts but he's good at his job.
<<SNIP>>
I guess sheriff Joe's plan to discourage immigration by decriminalizing the abuse and molestation of brown kids may land him in some hot water. Classy guy,,,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
While riding my motorcycle I was hit by a kid in a car running from the cops. Ugly crash - if I hadn't gotten my motorcycle into the ditch I would've been killed. If I'd been in a car I probably would have been killed. As it is I climbed into the ambulance with a nasty compound fracture to the right wrist. The kid who hit me is doing 2 years for Aggravated Vehicular Assault.
To me the question is not "Is prison strict enough?" The question is "What are they going to do with this kid in 24 months to teach him not to do crap like that anymore?!?!" I still ride a motorcycle, this kid's only 24 years old, what are they doing to keep this from happening again?
I met him. talked with him. Decent kid, bad choices. We talk about "rehabilitation", but I don't like that term. This kid was never 'habilitated' in the first place. Somebody needs to teach him how to function as a member of a modern society. How do you do that?
Unfortunately, as we are finding out, we may have limited options. When the important windows of childhood development are missed, the result is often a permanently "impaired" individual. When children do not have adequate nutrition, emotional support, exposure to words and books, etc., they are left with deficits that will affect them for a lifetime. Ultimately, what we do not invest in our children, we will end up spending two, three, four times as much on prisons, police, etc.
I don't claim for a second that there are any easy answers.0 -
His mom was crying at the sentencing, she yelled "you can't take him away" and tried to wrestle with the bailiff. The judge read his resume, and it was long but minor. Just a lifetime of bad decisions and it was clear that mommy & daddy had rescued him every time. Caught with a little pot, stole a car and took a joyride. Never hurt anybody (before this), just dumb stuff and never saw any real consequences. Maybe they can teach him something. I hope so.Unfortunately, as we are finding out, we may have limited options. When the important windows of childhood development are missed, the result is often a permanently "impaired" individual. When children do not have adequate nutrition, emotional support, exposure to words and books, etc., they are left with deficits that will affect them for a lifetime. Ultimately, what we do not invest in our children, we will end up spending two, three, four times as much on prisons, police, etc.
I don't claim for a second that there are any easy answers.0 -
There always has to be a happy medium between reform/rehab/education and punishment. I think prisoners should have access to highschool level educational material for free, college courses should come from what ever they get paid working prison jobs. They shouldn't go to prison and come out with a free college education, doesn't seem fair.
On the flip side, while prison, the taking of somes freedom is a punishment. While prisons should be strict, they do not have to be harsh. When the desperate, ignorant, uneducated or sociopathic commit crimes, as they have throughout history, even the most harshest of penalties has seemed to sway the criminal. So if it is deemed that these harsher and harsher punishments are not a deterrent, then at what point are we just seeking vengeance? Besides, humane treatement of a prisoner isn't exactly me being weak or liberal minded, it's more of me just wanting a system that works because throwing a moral deviant in a cage surrounded my other deviants and giving them no access to any type of corrective training, exercise or education is just really a formula to creat a more depraved criminal.0 -
And then once you've created that "more depraved criminal", he gets released. We absolutely cannot afford LWOP for every minor thug,,, these folks are going to get back out. What can we do that makes them not repeat? I don't know what the answer is, but I bet it ain't 23 hours a day in lockdown and 1 hour a day plotting revenge on the world with their fellow knuckleheads...0
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So we should treat prisoners better than law abiding citizens? I wasn't making that story up about the guy who committed a bank robbery so he could get medical care. We don't want to create "depraved criminals" so we give them food, clothing, shelter, higher education, gym access, cable TV, ice cream, conjugal visits, etc, etc, etc. We don't give those things to law abiding citizens or even children. 1 in 45 kids in this country doesn't have ANY of that stuff besides the clothes on their backs. They are homeless kids in America. 1 in 45. But prisoners should get free cable TV or they'll get angry? What about those millions of people who have nothing at all? Aren't you worried that they might get pissed? Or is that when the cries of "Get a job scumbag!" come out? Hey, they can just commit a petty crime and get treated like royalty compared to their current life and those same people who spit on them will say "Well we'd better give him free Ice cream too or he'll get out and commit more crimes." People are in such a desperate state that some of them are committing crimes so they CAN go to prison because it will improve the quality of their life. That shouldn't be happening. Ever.0
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if its so great in prison, why arent you trying to get in there?0
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Because I'm not homeless with no job and no insurance and wondering where my next meal will come from.if its so great in prison, why arent you trying to get in there?
I never said it was great. I said it's better than being homeless on the streets wondering when you will eat again.0 -
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So we should treat prisoners better than law abiding citizens? I wasn't making that story up about the guy who committed a bank robbery so he could get medical care. We don't want to create "depraved criminals" so we give them food, clothing, shelter, higher education, gym access, cable TV, ice cream, conjugal visits, etc, etc, etc. We don't give those things to law abiding citizens or even children. 1 in 45 kids in this country doesn't have ANY of that stuff besides the clothes on their backs. They are homeless kids in America. 1 in 45. But prisoners should get free cable TV or they'll get angry? What about those millions of people who have nothing at all? Aren't you worried that they might get pissed? Or is that when the cries of "Get a job scumbag!" come out? Hey, they can just commit a petty crime and get treated like royalty compared to their current life and those same people who spit on them will say "Well we'd better give him free Ice cream too or he'll get out and commit more crimes." People are in such a desperate state that some of them are committing crimes so they CAN go to prison because it will improve the quality of their life. That shouldn't be happening. Ever.
Medical care in prison nope none of that,they will stich you up is you get shanked yeah,but ive known plenty of people that have died from pneumonia in prison because they wouldnt treat it. I know someone who was bite by a brown recluse and they wouldnt treat it. My brother has almost died in prison 3 times that I recall from the excellent medical care they offer. The dumb *kitten* that robbed that bank should have just gone to the ER.No gyms in Cali or TX prisons,no cable tv either. If they can get someone on the outside will to buy one of the pre approved tvs then they might get 3 channles.Very few people in prison have tvs.The food is the basic lowest ammount of calories they can get to survive,and once again if you dont have someone putting money on your books thats all you get.Food is very frequantly modly stale ect
Internet access is a myth,there is NO internet in prison.If there was how many people would be using it to commit crimes..lol The ones that are on the internet otherwise are doing it through contraband cell phones.The only ones that get ice cream are those with the money on their books to buy it,but then again there is no ice cream in commisarry and none served in the regular meals so im not sure where your getting that. But yes quality of life is great in prison,lets see theres the rape and beatings thats always a good time.Lets see theres one hour to stand in a little cage once a week for a lot of inmates.Then theres the sickness lice scabies that runs rampent.the hepities c that runs rampent.You never know when someone is going to slice you open. Sounds like a dream to me where do I sign up:huh:0
This discussion has been closed.