Is prison strict enough?
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if its so great in prison, why arent you trying to get in there?Because I'm not homeless with no job and no insurance and wondering where my next meal will come from.
I never said it was great. I said it's better than being homeless on the streets wondering when you will eat again.
You asked if we should treat prisoners better than law abiding citizens, making it sound like prison isn't that bad. We should never treat prisoners as lower forms of human beings. I don't care what the crime. Take away their freedom, yes. But don't treat them horribly.0 -
if its so great in prison, why arent you trying to get in there?Because I'm not homeless with no job and no insurance and wondering where my next meal will come from.
I never said it was great. I said it's better than being homeless on the streets wondering when you will eat again.
You asked if we should treat prisoners better than law abiding citizens, making it sound like prison isn't that bad. We should never treat prisoners as lower forms of human beings. I don't care what the crime. Take away their freedom, yes. But don't treat them horribly.
Again, I said it's better than being homeless on the streets wondering where your next meal will come from. Where did I ever say to treat them horribly? Unless you think not giving them a free college education and giving them more than we give to millions of lw abiding citizens is somehow "treating them horribly" in which case what do you call the treatment of the poor and homeless in this country?
Fear, you didn't describe anything that law abiding homeless people don't deal with every day. Except that the food, clothing, and shelter is given to them. The "Go to the ER" comment is just silly. The ER will stabalize you then send you on your way along with a massive bill. The ER isn't free. It's more expensive than seeing a doctor. The man I spoke of earlier who robbed a bank had a growth on his chest. No doctor would do anything about it because he didn't have insurance. They wouldn't even look at him. The ER wouldn't do anything because he was stable. By ending up in the prison system he finally did get it looked at and removed. I'm sure some people do die in prison. I'm equally certain many law abiding citizens die because they don't get medical care either.0 -
Again, I said it's better than being homeless on the streets wondering where your next meal will come from. Where did I ever say to treat them horribly? Unless you think not giving them a free college education and giving them more than we give to millions of lw abiding citizens is somehow "treating them horribly" in which case what do you call the treatment of the poor and homeless in this country?
I don't think the poor and the homeless should be treated as less than human either.0 -
So we should treat prisoners better than law abiding citizens? I wasn't making that story up about the guy who committed a bank robbery so he could get medical care. We don't want to create "depraved criminals" so we give them food, clothing, shelter, higher education, gym access, cable TV, ice cream, conjugal visits, etc, etc, etc. We don't give those things to law abiding citizens or even children. 1 in 45 kids in this country doesn't have ANY of that stuff besides the clothes on their backs. They are homeless kids in America. 1 in 45. But prisoners should get free cable TV or they'll get angry? What about those millions of people who have nothing at all? Aren't you worried that they might get pissed? Or is that when the cries of "Get a job scumbag!" come out? Hey, they can just commit a petty crime and get treated like royalty compared to their current life and those same people who spit on them will say "Well we'd better give him free Ice cream too or he'll get out and commit more crimes." People are in such a desperate state that some of them are committing crimes so they CAN go to prison because it will improve the quality of their life. That shouldn't be happening. Ever.
like I said, I think they should be given access to high school eductation. College courses should be available with their own money they have to earn working in the prison. I'm not advocating giving them free anything except for the highschool stuff since every citizen should have access to it. Medical care is a necessity for humanitarian reasons. My philosophy on it is simple, if some one is bad, evil, criminal, that's on them and doesn't effect my values. Sure, if they break into my house, I'll kill em dead in a heartbeat. But if someone is in prison and is a horrible person, I don't advocate beating them or treating them over-harshly because that is not who I am.0 -
People are in such a desperate state that some of them are committing crimes so they CAN go to prison because it will improve the quality of their life. That shouldn't be happening. Ever.
Surely the answer is not to make prisons worse, but to make sure that people outside prison has a better lot?
If someone can't afford health care and chooses to commit a crime to get it, isn't something horribly wrong with that socierty? If someone has to go into thousands of dollars of debt to get an education isn't something wrong? (and we do that in my country though not to the same extent. The govt is also the ones giving the loans, intrest free. It also doesn't kick in till you make a certain amount of money. Still think it should be free)
American society is sick and needs fixing. Treating your prisonders as sub human won't fix it.0 -
if its so great in prison, why arent you trying to get in there?Because I'm not homeless with no job and no insurance and wondering where my next meal will come from.
I never said it was great. I said it's better than being homeless on the streets wondering when you will eat again.
You asked if we should treat prisoners better than law abiding citizens, making it sound like prison isn't that bad. We should never treat prisoners as lower forms of human beings. I don't care what the crime. Take away their freedom, yes. But don't treat them horribly.
Again, I said it's better than being homeless on the streets wondering where your next meal will come from. Where did I ever say to treat them horribly? Unless you think not giving them a free college education and giving them more than we give to millions of lw abiding citizens is somehow "treating them horribly" in which case what do you call the treatment of the poor and homeless in this country?
Fear, you didn't describe anything that law abiding homeless people don't deal with every day. Except that the food, clothing, and shelter is given to them. The "Go to the ER" comment is just silly. The ER will stabalize you then send you on your way along with a massive bill. The ER isn't free. It's more expensive than seeing a doctor. The man I spoke of earlier who robbed a bank had a growth on his chest. No doctor would do anything about it because he didn't have insurance. They wouldn't even look at him. The ER wouldn't do anything because he was stable. By ending up in the prison system he finally did get it looked at and removed. I'm sure some people do die in prison. I'm equally certain many law abiding citizens die because they don't get medical care either.
Almost everything you said about prison was false from the ice cream to the internet.As for the medical care if he was stable they absolutly would not remove the growth.In prison you get treated pretty much the same as you would in the ER if he was so stable the ER would not remove his growth then the prison would not have removed it either. Because it was not threatning his life at that momment.I get treated in the ER all the time since I dont have insurance,theve seen me for ear aches,and yes I got billed for it later but i did not have to pay at that momment.If you have an ear ache in prison they wont even look at you,if you have a growth the size of a babys head unless it being there will kill you they will not look at it they will not remove it. Yes the homeless deal with alot of stuff prisons do every day but it is a whole lot more violent in prison,when your on the streets you have a chance of getting away from the person who wants to shank you not so much when your trapped in a cell with them.You said we treat our prisons like royaltiy absolutly false yes they get clothes they get 1 pair of jeans and a jumpsuit you wear this al week. If prison is so great like you say why arnt all homeless people out starting a crime wave so they can go? Maybe because they would rather be on the streets than getting raped,beaten by inmates,beaten by gaurds,locked in a cold damp cell for 23 hours a day,so prsisoners are living the high life why isnt there a wave of homeless commiting crimes to go? And they guy with the growth I can garantee that he did not get it removed in prison if he was stable,the only way they will treat someone who is stable is if they have money on their books to pay for it,or if they get someone to pay for it.0 -
*sigh* I really wish people would read entire sentences. I NEVER said prisoners are treated like royalty. I said they are treated like royalty compared to how we treat our homeless. I stand by that assertion. We treat our homeless like thay are lower than dirt. This whole thread is full of people saying "Well we should give prisoners this and that and the other that we don't give to law abiding citizens or they might get mad." Whoopief*ingdo if they get mad. Don't like it? Don't be a scumbag criminal and you won't have to deal with it anymore.
If you are going to the ER for basic medical care that's foolish. Find an urgent care clinic or find a doctor who will let you pay cash. You'll save double to triple the cost.0 -
why would how you treat your hmeless have any bearing on the argument. If you think homeless should be treated better, why not have a thread about that rather than arguing that prisoners have it too good because there are unfortunately people in this world that have it even worse *shudder*.0
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This type of topic tends to combine a complex issue, a lot of emotion, and not a lot of in-depth knowledge. It's kind of like shaking a plate of jello. While everyone is shaking the plate, the jello moves a lot, but afterwards it goes back to exactly the shape it was before.0
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you could say that about any debate0
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*sigh* I really wish people would read entire sentences. I NEVER said prisoners are treated like royalty. I said they are treated like royalty compared to how we treat our homeless. I stand by that assertion. We treat our homeless like thay are lower than dirt. This whole thread is full of people saying "Well we should give prisoners this and that and the other that we don't give to law abiding citizens or they might get mad." Whoopief*ingdo if they get mad. Don't like it? Don't be a scumbag criminal and you won't have to deal with it anymore.
If you are going to the ER for basic medical care that's foolish. Find an urgent care clinic or find a doctor who will let you pay cash. You'll save double to triple the cost.
When you have absolutly no cash you go where you have to.And in no way shape or form do we treat our inmates better than our homless.That is a foolish statement.If that was true why is there not tons of homeless people commiting crimes to go to jail? Prisoners should not be given more than they already get,but half the crap people think they get is absolutly false like internet and cable tv land ice cream,and congul vist which as far as I know are almost compleatly fazed out. Ive been homeless and ive been to prison trust me homeless was better0 -
This type of topic tends to combine a complex issue, a lot of emotion, and not a lot of in-depth knowledge.
You really shouldn't assume who does and does not have in-depth knowledge.0 -
This type of topic tends to combine a complex issue, a lot of emotion, and not a lot of in-depth knowledge.
You really shouldn't assume who does and does not have in-depth knowledge.
I am reasonably confident that there aren't that many professional penologists or actual prison workers (or even past prisoners) participating in a debate board on MFP.
Nothing I have seen in the comments so far would give me reason to change my opinion. There is only one person so far making comments that seems to have even a semblance of insight. (and, no, it's not me)
So, if it's all the same to you, I'm going to stick with my original comment.
If there are any exceptions, I'll be happy to acknowledge them and give them the respect their knowledge and experience deserves.0 -
The last guy i knew who went to prison got gangraped. Sounds a blast doesnt it,0
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The things that FearAnLoathing is saying are true. All these amenities that you think prisoners receive are not fact. They don't have tvs unless they have $100 to buy them, usually given by family. They don't have internet. They don't have a/c. They don't have a means for many of the things that are being spouted as fact.
I really love the comment about the guards knowing what they signed up for so that person doesn't care if the prisoners riot. Nice. And, these guards are not in prison, they are law abiding citizens but you want to throw them into rioting prisons. You'd change your tune if you knew prison guards.
For the record, I worked at a prison for 5 years. I was not a guard, but I know how they are run. It's not as pleasant as people seem to think.
Also, I agree that we shouldn't compare how "good" prisoners have it to the homeless. Yes, we need to reform healthcare and how we treat all our citizens, but we shouldn't drag down treating prisoners humanely because we have other issues in this country. That comparison should be elsewhere.0 -
I feel badly for the guards. They have a very tough job. I sure wouldn't want to do it. But I have zero sympathy for the criminals. None. I really don't care what happens to them. Find an island somewhere and dump them in there to fend for themselves ala "Escape from NY" for all I care.
*Note, I'm not speaking of petty crimes like stealing a candy bar, having some pot on you, or doing 70 in a 60mph zone. I'm talking serious criminals who hurt others such as murderers, rapists, child molesters, identity theives, etc. If your crime caused someone else severe physical or emotional pain then I really don't care if you get beat up or worse in prison. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time and all that.0 -
I feel badly for the guards. They have a very tough job. I sure wouldn't want to do it. But I have zero sympathy for the criminals. None. I really don't care what happens to them. Find an island somewhere and dump them in there to fend for themselves ala "Escape from NY" for all I care.
*Note, I'm not speaking of petty crimes like stealing a candy bar, having some pot on you, or doing 70 in a 60mph zone. I'm talking serious criminals who hurt others such as murderers, rapists, child molesters, identity theives, etc. If your crime caused someone else severe physical or emotional pain then I really don't care if you get beat up or worse in prison. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time and all that.
Heres where the road gets tricky.Theres a saying "everybodys innocent in prison" and old joke based on people not owning up to what theve done.But at the same time it seems more and more people really are inncocent having being convicted of horrible crimes to spend big chuncks of life in prison just to have it come about that they were innocent. There has been many cases ive heard about lately in TX alone of people spending 20 + years in prison for rape or murder only to have it come out after dna tests that they were wrongfully convicted.What of those people? it seems more and more of these cases are coming to light now that dna is around and there are still many that are fighting just to get dna brought in.0 -
I feel badly for the guards. They have a very tough job. I sure wouldn't want to do it. But I have zero sympathy for the criminals. None. I really don't care what happens to them. Find an island somewhere and dump them in there to fend for themselves ala "Escape from NY" for all I care.
*Note, I'm not speaking of petty crimes like stealing a candy bar, having some pot on you, or doing 70 in a 60mph zone. I'm talking serious criminals who hurt others such as murderers, rapists, child molesters, identity theives, etc. If your crime caused someone else severe physical or emotional pain then I really don't care if you get beat up or worse in prison. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time and all that.
Heres where the road gets tricky.Theres a saying "everybodys innocent in prison" and old joke based on people not owning up to what theve done.But at the same time it seems more and more people really are inncocent having being convicted of horrible crimes to spend big chuncks of life in prison just to have it come about that they were innocent. There has been many cases ive heard about lately in TX alone of people spending 20 + years in prison for rape or murder only to have it come out after dna tests that they were wrongfully convicted.What of those people? it seems more and more of these cases are coming to light now that dna is around and there are still many that are fighting just to get dna brought in.
Well obviously I feel horrible for them. I wish there was some 100% accurrate method of determining who is guilty and who isn't. Who knows, maybe something like that (technological, scientific, who knows?) will be invented/discovered someday. If that day comes then go ahead and dump those loser scumbags on that remote island somewhere and let them kill each other off. You won't see me complain about it. I have no sympathy for criminals who hurt people. They had no sympathy for their victims.0 -
I feel badly for the guards. They have a very tough job. I sure wouldn't want to do it. But I have zero sympathy for the criminals. None. I really don't care what happens to them. Find an island somewhere and dump them in there to fend for themselves ala "Escape from NY" for all I care.
*Note, I'm not speaking of petty crimes like stealing a candy bar, having some pot on you, or doing 70 in a 60mph zone. I'm talking serious criminals who hurt others such as murderers, rapists, child molesters, identity theives, etc. If your crime caused someone else severe physical or emotional pain then I really don't care if you get beat up or worse in prison. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time and all that.
Heres where the road gets tricky.Theres a saying "everybodys innocent in prison" and old joke based on people not owning up to what theve done.But at the same time it seems more and more people really are inncocent having being convicted of horrible crimes to spend big chuncks of life in prison just to have it come about that they were innocent. There has been many cases ive heard about lately in TX alone of people spending 20 + years in prison for rape or murder only to have it come out after dna tests that they were wrongfully convicted.What of those people? it seems more and more of these cases are coming to light now that dna is around and there are still many that are fighting just to get dna brought in.
Well obviously I feel horrible for them. I wish there was some 100% accurrate method of determining who is guilty and who isn't. Who knows, maybe something like that (technological, scientific, who knows?) will be invented/discovered someday. If that day comes then go ahead and dump those loser scumbags on that remote island somewhere and let them kill each other off. You won't see me complain about it. I have no sympathy for criminals who hurt people. They had no sympathy for their victims.
I feel the same way,I find it absolutly disgusting that I know people doing 5+ years for having a bag of dope on them and then the pedos and rapists get freaking probation or suspended sentance.Makes no damn sense.0 -
I feel the same way,I find it absolutly disgusting that I know people doing 5+ years for having a bag of dope on them and then the pedos and rapists get freaking probation or suspended sentance.Makes no damn sense.
Holy CARP! We agree on something!! :panic: :laugh
When we lived in AZ our neighbors were a young couple with a 7yo, a 3yo, and a 2yo. We had an 8yo and a 5yo. The 7yo usually lived with his mother but the 2 younger ones lived there. They seemed like nice people. They argued quite a bit and I had to close the windows a few times when the foul language would start or continue outside.
Fast forward a year and they went to a friend's party in the court across the street. The wife (J) was talking with the husband of their friend. G (J's husband) got jealous and they started arguing. They left the party and went home where, apparently the fighting continued. It was summer so the 7yo was there. The fight turned violent. G punched and kicked J. At one point J was on the floor and he stomped on her head with steel toed boots on. When she stopped moving he loaded her barely conscious, incoherent body into the car along with all 3 kids at about 2am. He drove to CA. On the way he stopped for gas. The 7yo mentioned to the store clerk that his mommy was really hurt. The clerk took one look at her slumped and bloody in the car and called the police. G was arrested. J died 2 weeks later. G was found guilty of reckless manslaughter. He could serve as little as 7 years. IMO he should get 7years JUST for putting his kids through that several hour long drive with their dying mother. I HOPE he's raped daily. I have more sympathy for a mosquito that I swat than I do for anything he's going through.0 -
I feel the same way,I find it absolutly disgusting that I know people doing 5+ years for having a bag of dope on them and then the pedos and rapists get freaking probation or suspended sentance.Makes no damn sense.
Holy CARP! We agree on something!! :panic: :laugh
OMG its a sign of the end times the myans WERE RIGHT!!! :laugh:
I fully believe that the justice system is so flawed it needs to be compleatly reworked. Drugs are bad I get it,but someone should not get more time for having a rock on them than someone with violent offences. And its happening all the time0
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