Liberals Against Abortion?

Espressocycle

I'm a pinko commie liberal, but I am troubled by abortion. Is it really that terrible to have to carry a baby to term and give it up for adoption? Or use birth control in the first place?

Now, I'm not in favor of banning abortion, since banning it has never been shown to reduce the actual number of abortions, only their safety. However, I do wish there was a movement dedicated to actually reducing abortions through better birth control, adoption and economic equality (so people can afford to raise their children).

MzFury

Growing up the child of a feminist activist stepmother, I learned early on the following:

1) We DO NOT use the word PRO-LIFE for anti-abortion positions, because it implies we are ANTI-LIFE.
2) Being PRO-CHOICE is ONLY about keeping the option legal - and SAFE. People tend to poo-poo the 60s and 70s feminist movement as radical and activist, forgetting or not having experienced the kinds of public health crises and horrors attached to back-alley abortions.

Note that COMMON GROUND was formed EXACTLY to join anti-abortion advocates and pro-choice advocates in the areas of advocacy where they agree - this used to include things like preventing teen pregnancy.

Now that *kitten* like Rick Perry are doing away with any sex ed in schools, we face fresh new hells of teen sexual health and pregnancy crises.

It is absolutely fine to be disturbed by abortion and to strive for less of it.

Furthermore, lots and lots and lots and probably really MOST women who have to go through it are usually not in wonderful circumstances and not over the moon about the abortion.

Ironically, especially women who really want a child, and find out that they have been carrying, say, a fetus with no brain, or a fetus that is going to kill THE MOTHER if she takes it to term, are the ones who generally least wish to have an abortion and are the ones who most need one of those evil, murder-provoking, very-hard-to-get late-term abortions. I honestly think most people don't know what late term abortion is about, and therefore it's very easy to be horrified and infuriated by them. However, the truth is that the majority of these are performed out of (very tragic) medical necessity on women who genuinely find their only other choice may be their own death.

So yeah: safe, legal, and FEWER abortions are all good goals.

VeganGal84

I'm ridiculously pro-choice. Like, holding a sign at a pro-choice rally kind of pro-choice.

However, I am not pro-abortion by any means. There is definately a difference.

Krizzle4Rizzle

I am pro-choice. If a 12 year old is raped and becomes pregnant I could not look her in the eye and tell her what she has to do with her body. Something like that is tramatic enough, it is completely up to the person. I think the goverment should stay out of it.

♥Faerie♥

I 100% agree with kristy.....I have always thought this, who is the gov. to be able to tell a 12 year old that was just raped by her father that she now has to carry a baby full term, and then give it up...or try and raise this child? The act itself is traumatizing enough.... These types of things are so personal, and unique, there should not be a blanket law on something like this....

VeganGal84

I agree that the government needs to STAY OUT OF ABORTION. It's a personal thing, and should not be open for debate.

juliecat1

Pretty much the same here.... no one is FOR abortion. I am for the rights of woman to have the choice of what to do with their bodies. No one should be forced to carry a child to term that doesnt want to.

Bonita_Lynne_58

I'm very much pro-choice. That does not mean I'm pro-abortion. In a perfect world there would never be unplanned pregnancies. This is not a perfect world. Every woman's situation is different.

baisleac

Is it really that terrible to have to carry a baby to term and give it up for adoption? Or use birth control in the first place?

I agree with other posters in that I think no one is actually PRO-abortion; it's simply of an argument of pro-choice or anti-choice.

I just want to answer each of the above questions.

If a child is unwanted (regardless of the circumstances of conception), YES, it can be terrible to carry a child to term; whether it is then given up for adoption or not. Pregnancy is NOT a comfortable state of being. Pregnancy can wreak havoc on a woman's body. Pregnancy has long term effects, well past giving birth.

2nd point. Birth control fails. I've gotten pregnant 3 times on hormonal birth control (once without); only one was carried to term. (1st pregnancy conceived while on full-strength othro-tri, carried to term. 2nd and 3rd on a low dose, ectopic and miscarriage. 4th no birth control, miscarriage). I'm thinking of going back on full-strength ortho-tri to attempt a second kid. :laugh:

SkateboardFi

Is it really that terrible to have to carry a baby to term and give it up for adoption?

um. from what i've heard, pregnancy and childbirth is pretty excruciating and emotionally draining. to demand that a woman go through this knowing she won't keep the child is extremely selfish. and adoption? there is a serious unbalance of children who need to be adopted versus parents willing to adopt.

Or use birth control in the first place?

i agree with this. i think schools need to include birth control options with sexual education instead of this 'abstinence' teaching because these same people who are anti-abortion will be calling these teen moms *kitten* in the back of their minds

Now, I'm not in favor of banning abortion, since banning it has never been shown to reduce the actual number of abortions, only their safety. However, I do wish there was a movement dedicated to actually reducing abortions through better birth control, adoption and economic equality (so people can afford to raise their children).

again, with adoption, it's a hit or miss, because there's a serious disproportionate ratio of children to be adopted to willing parents. and that's why we have foster care, and children bouncing from home to home. i believe with better birth control education there can be maybe a prevention of some, but the thing about it is that no birth control is 100%, and why should someone be penalized for taking every precaution and still ending up pregnant? bottom line, no woman should be told, or judged about what she can and cannot do with her body.

Espressocycle

I realize as a man I shouldn't talk, but honestly, if at some point a fetus is a person, it seems like "my body, my choice" just isn't enough of a reason to kill something. I guess it comes down to what's worse, killing somebody or forcing somebody to give birth.

VeganInTraining

I agree with you completely OP! I am vehemently against abortion, however, pro-choice for pretty much the reasons you stated. I would never pass judgement on someone who was raped and chose abortion, though i would encourage them to go the adoption route, regardless of chosen route I would love and support them. HOWEVER I do have a huge problem with people using abortion as birth control. The pull and pray method is not effective and if you get pregnant while using it then freakin woman up and carry the child to term. Of course I don't have a copy of it, but I imagine a handful of you have seen the email about all the famous/influential people who were carried to term either though they were born into very unfortunate circumstances...you never know what your unborn child will grow up to become

SkateboardFi

i've talked about this before, but let's look at the political side of it. people saying we shouldn't condone it because it's 'morally unjust'. america prides itself on having all these 'freedoms' and being separate from church and state, yet we are blaringly hypocritical when it comes to womens' choices of what to do with our bodies. we shove a hypothetical and speculated morality issue (when does an embryo become human???) down these ladies' throats and make them feel obligated to pop out unplanned babies.

now in some cases, it works out fine, the parents get their *kitten* in gear and do what they need to do to take care of this new life. but in MOST cases, this baby is born to a family which not only didn't plan it, but possibly doesn't even want it, and definitely not prepared for it. this can go one of several ways: 1. the child is mentally/physically abused as a result 2. the parents become another statistic for people who end up on government aid and the child grows up accustomed to poverty, deprivation and in most cases, criminal activity, or, 3. they get sent to foster homes/adoption agencies where one or a combination of the previous outcomes is tied into this one. i can pretty much guarantee that most criminals come from abusive, broken or impoverished homes.

now keep in mind, my mother was young when she had me. i was unplanned and when i was old enough to ask, she admitted that she considered abortion. she was 19, in college and had NO plans to have children. ever. i'm a lucky case, in that she changed her mind and her life to accomodate me, but expecting the same out of everyone else, and especially when these women might have come from homes mentioned in the previous paragraph and just following a vicious cycle.

debussyschild

This is a brave thread, lol. But a good one. Not too many people have the stone to discuss this topic in a civilized manner.

Me, I'm pro-choice. Like others who've posted, that doesn't imply that I'm pro-abortion.

I'm not a fan of abortion. And I thank God that I've never been in the position to ever contemplate having one. Even though politically I'm more of a conservative, I'm completely against the whole notion of preaching abstinence and temperance to our children. It's just stupid and has never had any success. People in our country who try to deny birth control (i.e. contraceptives; preventing pregnancy altogether) to anyone should be SHOT. Don't they know how many women in third world countries are raped or victims of incest and are denied any education about sex and birth control? Do they know how hard people from developed countries work to help those women have a CHOICE in the matter? In a developed and educated nation like ours, it seems completely backwards and ignorant to deny our youth (and adults) accurate and useful reproductive education. We live in a country where we are free to make our own choices, and while I would never recommend someone get an abortion, I support their right to choose to have one as well as to choose to use the most current methods available to prevent pregnancy in the first place. No government should EVER have the right to make those choices on behalf of its citizens. EVER.

Edit: Sorry to imply that "our" country is ever country. I mean my country, lol, the US. I do realize we have members on here from other countries and I'm glad we do

debussyschild

I agree with you completely OP! I am vehemently against abortion, however, pro-choice for pretty much the reasons you stated. I would never pass judgement on someone who was raped and chose abortion, though i would encourage them to go the adoption route, regardless of chosen route I would love and support them. HOWEVER I do have a huge problem with people using abortion as birth control. The pull and pray method is not effective and if you get pregnant while using it then freakin woman up and carry the child to term. Of course I don't have a copy of it, but I imagine a handful of you have seen the email about all the famous/influential people who were carried to term either though they were born into very unfortunate circumstances...you never know what your unborn child will grow up to become

I know of a woman who has somehow managed to have about a dozen abortions over the years... I'm surprised she's not been made barren as a result of all the scarring, but damn I wish she was already! Using abortion as a method of birth control is obscene and morally repugnant. It is a last resort. PERIOD. *steps off the soap box*

SkateboardFi

I agree with you completely OP! I am vehemently against abortion, however, pro-choice for pretty much the reasons you stated. I would never pass judgement on someone who was raped and chose abortion, though i would encourage them to go the adoption route, regardless of chosen route I would love and support them. HOWEVER I do have a huge problem with people using abortion as birth control. The pull and pray method is not effective and if you get pregnant while using it then freakin woman up and carry the child to term. Of course I don't have a copy of it, but I imagine a handful of you have seen the email about all the famous/influential people who were carried to term either though they were born into very unfortunate circumstances...you never know what your unborn child will grow up to become

I know of a woman who has somehow managed to have about a dozen abortions over the years... I'm surprised she's not been made barren as a result of all the scarring, but damn I wish she was already! Using abortion as a method of birth control is obscene and morally repugnant. It is a last resort. PERIOD. *steps off the soap box*

I mean..women who have had multiple abortions are few and far between. Most of us get our act together after the first pregnancy scare. I don't think women would be clamoring for the clinic in droves because abortion was no longer banned.

VeganInTraining

I agree with you completely OP! I am vehemently against abortion, however, pro-choice for pretty much the reasons you stated. I would never pass judgement on someone who was raped and chose abortion, though i would encourage them to go the adoption route, regardless of chosen route I would love and support them. HOWEVER I do have a huge problem with people using abortion as birth control. The pull and pray method is not effective and if you get pregnant while using it then freakin woman up and carry the child to term. Of course I don't have a copy of it, but I imagine a handful of you have seen the email about all the famous/influential people who were carried to term either though they were born into very unfortunate circumstances...you never know what your unborn child will grow up to become

I know of a woman who has somehow managed to have about a dozen abortions over the years... I'm surprised she's not been made barren as a result of all the scarring, but damn I wish she was already! Using abortion as a method of birth control is obscene and morally repugnant. It is a last resort. PERIOD. *steps off the soap box*

I mean..women who have had multiple abortions are few and far between. Most of us get our act together after the first pregnancy scare. I don't think women would be clamoring for the clinic in droves because abortion was no longer banned.

I definitely agree that just because abortion is no longer banned doesn't mean that people are going to be running to the clinic, like the OP said, banning it isn't going to minimize the number of abortions, just minimize the safety of these abortions. Like I said, I'm pro-choice but anti-abortion (and yes I realize that no one is "pro-abortion")

debussyschild: I am a victim of abstinence only education. For a while it did work, I waited until I was 20 to have sex, but because of my lack of education I was careless about protection because I simply didn't know my options or how to attain them. It wasn't until getting my first pap at 21 or 22 (which I thought was something that only older people needed to do, thank God for a woman who told me to go!) that I found out that condoms don't protect from every disease, and all the other birth control options available to me. Thank God, that I didn't end up with anything or a child! I am most definitely against abstinance only education...perhaps that could be a whole other thread lol

SkateboardFi

I agree with you completely OP! I am vehemently against abortion, however, pro-choice for pretty much the reasons you stated. I would never pass judgement on someone who was raped and chose abortion, though i would encourage them to go the adoption route, regardless of chosen route I would love and support them. HOWEVER I do have a huge problem with people using abortion as birth control. The pull and pray method is not effective and if you get pregnant while using it then freakin woman up and carry the child to term. Of course I don't have a copy of it, but I imagine a handful of you have seen the email about all the famous/influential people who were carried to term either though they were born into very unfortunate circumstances...you never know what your unborn child will grow up to become

I know of a woman who has somehow managed to have about a dozen abortions over the years... I'm surprised she's not been made barren as a result of all the scarring, but damn I wish she was already! Using abortion as a method of birth control is obscene and morally repugnant. It is a last resort. PERIOD. *steps off the soap box*

I mean..women who have had multiple abortions are few and far between. Most of us get our act together after the first pregnancy scare. I don't think women would be clamoring for the clinic in droves because abortion was no longer banned.

I definitely agree that just because abortion is no longer banned doesn't mean that people are going to be running to the clinic, like the OP said, banning it isn't going to minimize the number of abortions, just minimize the safety of these abortions. Like I said, I'm pro-choice but anti-abortion (and yes I realize that no one is "pro-abortion")

debussyschild: I am a victim of abstinence only education. For a while it did work, I waited until I was 20 to have sex, but because of my lack of education I was careless about protection because I simply didn't know my options or how to attain them. It wasn't until getting my first pap at 21 or 22 (which I thought was something that only older people needed to do, thank God for a woman who told me to go!) that I found out that condoms don't protect from every disease, and all the other birth control options available to me. Thank God, that I didn't end up with anything or a child! I am most definitely against abstinance only education...perhaps that could be a whole other thread lol

yes, i agree with the harms of strictly abstinence teachings. it's ironic. we live in a country that oversexualizes young women (think britney spears, miley cyrus, lindsey lohan), but get all in a huff when these girls end up pregnant, tell them they can't abort the baby, and then look down on them when they're teenage mothers on government aid

VeganInTraining

I had never thought about that SkateboardFi but you are so right....wow, that's pathetic!

Marig0ld

yes, i agree with the harms of strictly abstinence teachings. it's ironic. we live in a country that oversexualizes young women (think britney spears, miley cyrus, lindsey lohan), but get all in a huff when these girls end up pregnant, tell them they can't abort the baby, and then look down on them when they're teenage mothers on government aid

Very true. Shows like "Teen Mom" on MTV don't help things. Now young girls think that they can become celebrities just by getting knocked up. :noway: I don't have a kid but I know that there's nothing glamourous about it.

Espressocycle

If you want to prevent abortions, you should support sex-ed, birth control, universal healthcare, child care subsidies, paid sick leave and maternity leave, and decent schools in low-income areas. Most people who are anti-abortion are against all of those things, because they are not so much against abortion as in favor of an impoassibly high bar of personal responsibility.