Liberals Against Abortion?
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Yes, I thought that was common.really wow
i dont think its common at all0 -
What I worry about when it comes to abortion is the type of people who wouldn't get one. From personal experiences (and general assumptions) I always think education= pro abortion (for fear of ruining one's own life). Drug addicted, school drop outs = against abortion (because they can't afford it )
I KNOW those aren't the only two cases, but its always the general case I think of in terms of abortion. I'm not sure how abortion works in other countries, but I think abortion should be a government funded procedure (with limitations of course).
If you have become pregnant and don't want the child but can't afford the procedure, the government should offer assistance. Simple as that. If you can't afford a procedure which is minuscule in respect to the cost of raising a child you should have options.
apparently I'm a "drug addicted, school drop out" who is serving in the military, doesn't drink, smoke, or do drugs and is pursuing my degree in psychology. You say "education=pro abortion (for fear of ruining one's own life)" I didn't realize that education=selfish. I can get on board (though I don't agree) with people who get an abortion because they wont be able to give the child a decent life but abortion because it will ruin one's own life is selfish.
I definitely disagree that abortion should be government funded. If someone wants an abortion they will find the money (my friend who thinks that abortion is a valid form of birth control has had 3 on minimum wage) And abortion is WAY cheaper than carrying and delivering a child.
I said before, I'm pro-choice because people are going to get abortions no matter what but I would always recommend someone not get an abortion.
Aristotle was adopted, as was Bill Clinton and Malcom X. Is adoption ideal? no. But it sure beats the alternative! Ask a person who has graduated format he foster care system if they would have rather been aborted. I'm sure that some would say yes but I think that majority would say "no" I have a handful of friends that are eternally grateful that their mother's decided that though they personally couldn't raise them that at least she decided to give the kid a chance. Sure, if you give a child up for adoption, or it's born into a dysfunctional family (who's family isn't?) they may not thrive, but at least they were given the change and many of them do.0 -
Yes, I thought that was common.really wow
i dont think its common at all
I've heard of it and definitely understand it but I wouldn't call it common. I was pregnant before but I never had any children.0 -
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so? Theres quite a high proportion of adoptees who turn out to be serial killers too0
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LOL that they put Jesus on there.
Also, some of those people weren't adopted, but simply raised by a stepparent in addition to the birth parent. Or raised by relatives of the birth parents. That is not the same thing at all and not comparable to someone giving up a baby to adoption.
Not to mention that in my bit of research of just a few of the names on that list, the list is NOT accurate as several of the people I've looked up so far were NOT adopted, NOT raised by relatives, or anything even close.0 -
LOL that they put Jesus on there.
Also, some of those people weren't adopted, but simply raised by a stepparent in addition to the birth parent. Or raised by relatives of the birth parents. That is not the same thing at all and not comparable to someone giving up a baby to adoption.
Not to mention that in my bit of research of just a few of the names on that list, the list is NOT accurate as several of the people I've looked up so far were NOT adopted, NOT raised by relatives, or anything even close.
I laughed that they put Jesus on there as well. Sorry, apparently I quoted a crappy site, I couldn't find the one I was looking for so I took the first one I saw without checking out credibility. Sorry about that.
I agree that being raised with a stepparent is not the same as adopting but i would say that as far as abortion vs. someone else raising your child that being raised by relatives is similar, and surprisingly not something that has been brought up. The same? no, but similar because it's still choosing to have the child and allowing someone else to care for it.0 -
I think it is a bogus argument to show people who were adopted to go on to do great things as an argument against abortion. What statistics on how many become a Bill Clinton vs. how many become criminals. Besides, if you are using this as a pro-life argument, a persons success in life shouldn't be the deciding factor of their "worth" as a human. If the child was autistic or a mentally handicapped, you would still be pro-life, right?0
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I think it is a bogus argument to show people who were adopted to go on to do great things as an argument against abortion. What statistics on how many become a Bill Clinton vs. how many become criminals. Besides, if you are using this as a pro-life argument, a persons success in life shouldn't be the deciding factor of their "worth" as a human. If the child was autistic or a mentally handicapped, you would still be pro-life, right?
I absolutely would but how many people would consider a child having down syndrome a reason for abortion? countless. It is not a bogus argument because you never know what is going to happen. People are saying that adoption is a bad idea because those children aren't going to have good lives blah, blah, blah. The point of sharing that, apparently flawed, list is that being put of for adoption does not = terrible life. If it is bogus to give a list of people who have succeeded after adoption then is is equally as bogus to say that killing a baby is a better option that putting them up for adoption because then they will be caught in the system and subject to a crappy life.0 -
I think it is a bogus argument to show people who were adopted to go on to do great things as an argument against abortion. What statistics on how many become a Bill Clinton vs. how many become criminals. Besides, if you are using this as a pro-life argument, a persons success in life shouldn't be the deciding factor of their "worth" as a human. If the child was autistic or a mentally handicapped, you would still be pro-life, right?
I absolutely would but how many people would consider a child having down syndrome a reason for abortion? countless. It is not a bogus argument because you never know what is going to happen. People are saying that adoption is a bad idea because those children aren't going to have good lives blah, blah, blah. The point of sharing that, apparently flawed, list is that being put of for adoption does not = terrible life. If it is bogus to give a list of people who have succeeded after adoption then is is equally as bogus to say that killing a baby is a better option that putting them up for adoption because then they will be caught in the system and subject to a crappy life.0 -
I absolutely would but how many people would consider a child having down syndrome a reason for abortion? countless. It is not a bogus argument because you never know what is going to happen. People are saying that adoption is a bad idea because those children aren't going to have good lives blah, blah, blah. The point of sharing that, apparently flawed, list is that being put of for adoption does not = terrible life. If it is bogus to give a list of people who have succeeded after adoption then is is equally as bogus to say that killing a baby is a better option that putting them up for adoption because then they will be caught in the system and subject to a crappy life.
You're right, adopted kids often lead happy, normal, healthy lives, and I am a pretty big supporter of adopting kids who are already up for adoption. But with a world population of 7 billion, it's irresponsible to bring yet another child into the world when you know beforehand that you won't be able to keep/support it.
Besides, for many of us, abortion isn't "killing a baby".0 -
I think it is a bogus argument to show people who were adopted to go on to do great things as an argument against abortion. What statistics on how many become a Bill Clinton vs. how many become criminals. Besides, if you are using this as a pro-life argument, a persons success in life shouldn't be the deciding factor of their "worth" as a human. If the child was autistic or a mentally handicapped, you would still be pro-life, right?
I absolutely would but how many people would consider a child having down syndrome a reason for abortion? countless. It is not a bogus argument because you never know what is going to happen. People are saying that adoption is a bad idea because those children aren't going to have good lives blah, blah, blah. The point of sharing that, apparently flawed, list is that being put of for adoption does not = terrible life. If it is bogus to give a list of people who have succeeded after adoption then is is equally as bogus to say that killing a baby is a better option that putting them up for adoption because then they will be caught in the system and subject to a crappy life.
I'm not making an anti-adoption argument. I think adoption is wonderful. I making the argument that the outcome of the childs life should have no bearing on the argument. Whether it was a good life or a bad life should make no difference in the debate because both sides can equally point out both good and bad scenarios. The point I'm trying to make is if you are pro-life, would it matter to you if the child became a Doctor or a drug dealer? Would knowing that a child might have a terrible life make you pro-choice. No. Therefore knowing that the child might have a great life won't sway the pro-choice to be pro-life.0 -
I think it is a bogus argument to show people who were adopted to go on to do great things as an argument against abortion. What statistics on how many become a Bill Clinton vs. how many become criminals. Besides, if you are using this as a pro-life argument, a persons success in life shouldn't be the deciding factor of their "worth" as a human. If the child was autistic or a mentally handicapped, you would still be pro-life, right?
I absolutely would but how many people would consider a child having down syndrome a reason for abortion? countless. It is not a bogus argument because you never know what is going to happen. People are saying that adoption is a bad idea because those children aren't going to have good lives blah, blah, blah. The point of sharing that, apparently flawed, list is that being put of for adoption does not = terrible life. If it is bogus to give a list of people who have succeeded after adoption then is is equally as bogus to say that killing a baby is a better option that putting them up for adoption because then they will be caught in the system and subject to a crappy life.
I'm not making an anti-adoption argument. I think adoption is wonderful. I making the argument that the outcome of the childs life should have no bearing on the argument. Whether it was a good life or a bad life should make no difference in the debate because both sides can equally point out both good and bad scenarios. The point I'm trying to make is if you are pro-life, would it matter to you if the child became a Doctor or a drug dealer? Would knowing that a child might have a terrible life make you pro-choice. No. Therefore knowing that the child might have a great life won't sway the pro-choice to be pro-life.
haha we're basically saying the same thing here. My reason for saying that many adoptees do come out OK was in response to those that say that putting a kid up for adoption is less responsible than having an abortion because of the quality of life. Otherwise i would not have brought that into the debate.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!0 -
So how is the right of the "woman's choice" superior to the baby's "right" to life?
I am pro-life, not for any religious reason, just for moral reasons. I also believe the government, on the state level, has the grounds to get involved here because it's not just a personal choice of the mother when she IS affecting the life of another, whether it be the child or the fatehr of the child.
I also believe that abortion is used too openly as a form of birth control for women who are careless. I've known multiple people who have claimed to have 2, 3, 4 abortions just out of carelessness on their part. I know making abortion illegal would bring along other issues but I somewhat hope that people would be a bit more "safe" knowing that abortion was not an option if they were to get knocked up...That part is just a fantasy though
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I realize as a man I shouldn't talk, but honestly, if at some point a fetus is a person, it seems like "my body, my choice" just isn't enough of a reason to kill something. I guess it comes down to what's worse, killing somebody or forcing somebody to give birth.
Pretty much my stance as well. If it has a heartbeat-it's a living person. That's all it takes for me.0 -
The government doesn't consider it a person. Not really. Even the staunchest of pro life candidates don't. They don't want to change birth certificates to conception certificates. They don't want to issue death certificates for miscarriages. They don't want people to claim an embryo as a dependant on their taxes. They don't want to give social security/medicare to people 40 weeks sooner than they do now. Whether or not your kid can start kindergarten is based on their birthday, not their conception day.0
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They don't want to issue death certificates for miscarriages.
Except in whichever state it was that wanted to criminalise women who had miscarriages if it is deemed that their actions may have contributed in any way to the miscarriage...
Actually, having just googled, it seems that miscarriage has been criminalised in several states, including Utah, Alabama and Mississippi. Jaw currently hitting the floor - I love the USA, but sometimes the politicisation of personal choices and circumstances there leaves me reeling!0
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