sexual assault and alcohol

VeganInTraining

I don't remember the exact statistic, but more than 75% of sexual assaults involve alcohol.

If both parties are drunk and perhaps the assailant was in a black out, would you still lable the assailant as "rapist?" How do you feel about the prospect of prosecuting a case in which the victim was very drunk and only remembers pieces of the night? If you were a on a joury, and a person is claiming they were raped, there is evidence that sex took place between victim and alleged assailant, perhaps the victim has bruises, but there are no witnesses and both parties were drunk, which conclusion do you think you would come to and why?

Grimmerick

Mmmm Toughie, well I would have to see some other physical signs not just bruises(I bruise stupidly easy) to brand somebody for life as a rapist. Especially if they were both wasted drunk. There just wouldn't be enough evidence for me to make that judgement, maybe if the guy had prior charges against him or had a history of rape or deviant behavior, but it would have to be pretty solid.

TheRoadDog

There is no such thing as "Justifiable Rape.' I don't care if you're drunk, drugged or priapistic, "No" is No. I don't care if she said yes up until penetration and then changed her mind. It's still No, and any other course of action besides withdrawal is a crime.

And....if she is claiming rape afterwards, when, in reality, she said yes, then she should suffer the same punishment as a rapist would, if convicted.

LuckyLeprechaun

Road Dog, can we be sure that she remembers whether she said yes or no? Just asking. Embarrassment may cause a girl to say the next morning that she said no, when in reality she said something like "I'm soooooo wasted, why not?"

Just stirrin' the pot....

poisongirl6485

Well I think we're asking two separate questions. If a man rapes a woman in a blackout state, is he still responsible? Absolutely yes. His choice to drink to that point of blacking out does not excuse his actions while he was in that state.

Now, if a woman claims rape when she really was just drunk, is it still rape? Maybe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure there's something that says that someone who is intoxicated is not legally capable of actually consenting to sex, so therefore it could be rape.

mikajoanow

If someone falls asleep at the wheel when they are drunk are they still responsible if they kill someone in a crash?

I actually went through something like this over 10 years ago. For me it was for more embarrassing to admit what had happened to me. I support most women who come forward because I know exactly how hard that is, it was impossible for me. And if you have ever been raped, you know that claiming rape is not the easy way out.


I also don't think drinking turns most people into monsters. I have been intoxicated many times and I have always managed to not murder anyone or rape anyone.

california_peach

Quick question. If you are that drunk how could you rape someone. Not sure it would even be possible. I think both parties would be passed out in a giant puddle of vomit.

TheRoadDog

Road Dog, can we be sure that she remembers whether she said yes or no? Just asking. Embarrassment may cause a girl to say the next morning that she said no, when in reality she said something like "I'm soooooo wasted, why not?"

Just stirrin' the pot....

I'm sure this has happened. Very sad that two persons lives have to suffer for a drunken encounter.

I couldn't begin to cover all the variables, I'm just making a simple statement: "No means No." At any time in the encounter, no matter how far along it has progressed, a woman has the right to say no.

It may be frustrating. It may be unfair. The man's recourse is to not ask her out again. I've been there. I've ended a date with a bad case of Blue Balls, but I'd rather take my over excited self home and take care of it myself than wake up the next morning and know that I had forced myself on someone or bullied them into sex when they did not want it.

poisongirl6485

Road Dog, can we be sure that she remembers whether she said yes or no? Just asking. Embarrassment may cause a girl to say the next morning that she said no, when in reality she said something like "I'm soooooo wasted, why not?"

Just stirrin' the pot....

I'm sure this has happened. Very sad that two persons lives have to suffer for a drunken encounter.

I couldn't begin to cover all the variables, I'm just making a simple statement: "No means No." At any time in the encounter, no matter how far along it has progressed, a woman has the right to say no.

It may be frustrating. It may be unfair. The man's recourse is to not ask her out again. I've been there. I've ended a date with a bad case of Blue Balls, but I'd rather take my over excited self home and take care of it myself than wake up the next morning and know that I had forced myself on someone or bullied them into sex when they did not want it.

:drinker:

macpatti

If the victim remembers enough to consider it rape, then she should notify the police. I would have no problem finding someone guilty of an act the performed while under the influence if the victim has a good case.

adrian_indy

Having sex with some one who is passed out is rape. Not being able to consent is the same as saying no in my book. People want to get drunk and have sex, fine with me, but if you are engaging in intercourse with someone who can barely speak or keep their eyes open, you are risking being accused of rape everytime.

futiledevices

Yup, it's rape. When you're drunk, you still understand english and the word "no".. the unfortunate thing is that as soon as a woman goes to report that she's been raped to the cops, they'll ask her what she was wearing, how she spoke, if she laughed, how she laughed, blah blah blah.. That's rape culture for you.

summalovaable

Yup, it's rape. When you're drunk, you still understand english and the word "no".. the unfortunate thing is that as soon as a woman goes to report that she's been raped to the cops, they'll ask her what she was wearing, how she spoke, if she laughed, how she laughed, blah blah blah.. That's rape culture for you.

I think its more an issue of when the person isn't able to say the word no.

As much as I'll be hated for saying this, I think the police have a right to be skeptical as to how the woman was portraying herself. Now I'm not implying that dressing more revealing is an open invitation for anyone to have sex. But if a man is in equally intoxicated, and believes he is receiving signals, if the woman never says "no" is it rape? Or is it a matter of several misinterpretations and a woman's inability to say no (ETA: out of self conscious issues, not inability due to being passed out... that's never acceptable)

I suppose that's my biggest concern, there's a difference between drunken sex you regret, and passed out or blacked out rape. Police should not believe every woman who cries rape, and they do have an obligation to hear understand the full story. I wouldn't say its unfortunate, I would say its necessary.

futiledevices

No, a man isn't "receiving signals".. that's an excuse. It's also incredibly sexist that women apparently can't wear what they want without worrying about some man attacking her. Are we supposed to live in fear? If he wants to have sex with her, he needs to ask for consent, not just go for it.

summalovaable

No, a man isn't "receiving signals".. that's an excuse. It's also incredibly sexist that women apparently can't wear what they want without worrying about some man attacking her. Are we supposed to live in fear? If he wants to have sex with her, he needs to ask for consent, not just go for it.

I think were making two very different assumptions and generalizations.
To me, rape from intoxication is not necessarily "attacking". A woman may have agreed to become intimate with a man, but the two had very different interpretations of what intimate meant. If a woman does not intend to have sex, but allows everything else... and does not say "no" directly up until that point this is where things become tricky. Is the assailant to assume that she is not interested if she has shown interest? In an ideal case (or a case where you were dealing with a half decent, or preferably sober gentleman), they would ask consent. However, in the heat of the moment its not always "ideal"

Now, in the case is as the OP stated. I would say its not quite a yes or no answer. If BOTH parties were black out drunk, whose opinion matters most? What if the male had accused the female of rape (And now that I think of it, its very ignorant to assume this is a case between a man and a woman... but nonetheless), would it be rape if the male made the accusations? He was in no better a condition than the female. You say bruises were found, but that's again not very valid evidence. I've literally dragged friends who were passed out drunk and they've woken up with marks on their arms.

Unless one of the parties has enough valid evidence, I do not believe it would or should be considered rape.

futiledevices

If you're being realistic, it's obviously a woman.. women don't rape men. That just doesn't happen & if it did, or ever has, it's an extremely rare occurrence and not a real problem of the world.

I think it's pretty easy to tell if someone is interested or not just by body language. If someone is resisting, they're obviously not interested.. if someone is passed out and unconscious, that's not an invitation to abuse their body. Rape can't be taken lightly and it's important not to jump to the conclusion that the person is simply lying to cover up their embarrassment, because that already happens far too often enough.

Bonita_Lynne_58

Road Dog, can we be sure that she remembers whether she said yes or no? Just asking. Embarrassment may cause a girl to say the next morning that she said no, when in reality she said something like "I'm soooooo wasted, why not?"

Just stirrin' the pot....

I'm sure this has happened. Very sad that two persons lives have to suffer for a drunken encounter.

I couldn't begin to cover all the variables, I'm just making a simple statement: "No means No." At any time in the encounter, no matter how far along it has progressed, a woman has the right to say no.

It may be frustrating. It may be unfair. The man's recourse is to not ask her out again. I've been there. I've ended a date with a bad case of Blue Balls, but I'd rather take my over excited self home and take care of it myself than wake up the next morning and know that I had forced myself on someone or bullied them into sex when they did not want it.

^^^^This! That's what I taught my son. No is always no! Rape is never justifiable. Alcohol or other drugs do not excuse rape. If a man can't control his behavior then he has no business getting drunk/high.

thor1god1of1awesome

Rape is rape. No means no. To me its pretty simple. There is a no excuse in my book. I agree with roaddog a 100%

micls

If you're being realistic, it's obviously a woman.. women don't rape men. That just doesn't happen & if it did, or ever has, it's an extremely rare occurrence and not a real problem of the world.

That's a ridiculous comment. Women DO rape men. Men are far less likely to report it however. It is a real problem, regardless of the fact that it is less prominent than the other way around.

Mcctin65

Road Dog, can we be sure that she remembers whether she said yes or no? Just asking. Embarrassment may cause a girl to say the next morning that she said no, when in reality she said something like "I'm soooooo wasted, why not?"

Just stirrin' the pot....

I'm sure this has happened. Very sad that two persons lives have to suffer for a drunken encounter.

I couldn't begin to cover all the variables, I'm just making a simple statement: "No means No." At any time in the encounter, no matter how far along it has progressed, a woman has the right to say no.

It may be frustrating. It may be unfair. The man's recourse is to not ask her out again. I've been there. I've ended a date with a bad case of Blue Balls, but I'd rather take my over excited self home and take care of it myself than wake up the next morning and know that I had forced myself on someone or bullied them into sex when they did not want it.

Very well said.

adrian_indy

Road Dog, can we be sure that she remembers whether she said yes or no? Just asking. Embarrassment may cause a girl to say the next morning that she said no, when in reality she said something like "I'm soooooo wasted, why not?"

Just stirrin' the pot....

I'm sure this has happened. Very sad that two persons lives have to suffer for a drunken encounter.

I couldn't begin to cover all the variables, I'm just making a simple statement: "No means No." At any time in the encounter, no matter how far along it has progressed, a woman has the right to say no.

It may be frustrating. It may be unfair. The man's recourse is to not ask her out again. I've been there. I've ended a date with a bad case of Blue Balls, but I'd rather take my over excited self home and take care of it myself than wake up the next morning and know that I had forced myself on someone or bullied them into sex when they did not want it.

Very well said.

I've been in mid penetration when a girl changed her mind once. It sucked, but I stopped. Now, I might have laid a few lines on her to see if I could get her to change her mind, but once it became apparent that she didn't want to continue, it was off to sleep for me. Now I could go on a rant about how she was indecisive, led me on, came back to my hotel room, gave me signals, got me all hot and bothered, but why? What ever she did, what ever mistakes she made are her mistakes, they don't have to be mine.