sexual assault and alcohol
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Are you kidding me? Thank you for mansplaining that to me, but no.. you are living a man's experience of the world, not a woman's, so you can't tell me how "progressive" it is when it's just not.
I'm not quite sure what country you're living in, but I think woman's right in North America have greatly improved. But because you are SO certain your opinion is 100% correct. Please tell me what evidence there is that woman's rights in North America have not progressed within the last 100 years.
Next, you're going to try and tell me Evolution isn't real either :grumble: (....kidding)
If you think that men and women are equal, you are sadly mistaken. and I don't know what world YOU are living in if you think they are.0 -
also, I NEVER SAID RAPE WAS EVER JUSTIFIABLE. Please, can you people go back and READ. Find where I said that and show it to me.
Let's have a little lesson on privilege.
If you are born a man, you have male privilege!
if you are born white, you have white privilege!
if you are born straight, you are also privileged!
Thank you all for twisting my words so much.
We are all living in a patriarchy, by the way. In case you didn't know that, I'm sorry.. now you know.
Let's see how far this can be twisted, too.0 -
I don't remember the exact statistic, but more than 75% of sexual assaults involve alcohol.
If both parties are drunk and perhaps the assailant was in a black out, would you still lable the assailant as "rapist?" How do you feel about the prospect of prosecuting a case in which the victim was very drunk and only remembers pieces of the night? If you were a on a joury, and a person is claiming they were raped, there is evidence that sex took place between victim and alleged assailant, perhaps the victim has bruises, but there are no witnesses and both parties were drunk, which conclusion do you think you would come to and why?
If consent is not given, it's rape.
If a person is unable to give consent, it's rape.0 -
At what point does the "victim" need to take some responsibility for getting so incredibly drunk that they black out? Assuming they were't drugged, of course. People (men and women) should know that there are risks associated with getting completely tanked outside of alcohol poisoning.I don't remember the exact statistic, but more than 75% of sexual assaults involve alcohol.
If both parties are drunk and perhaps the assailant was in a black out, would you still lable the assailant as "rapist?" How do you feel about the prospect of prosecuting a case in which the victim was very drunk and only remembers pieces of the night? If you were a on a joury, and a person is claiming they were raped, there is evidence that sex took place between victim and alleged assailant, perhaps the victim has bruises, but there are no witnesses and both parties were drunk, which conclusion do you think you would come to and why?
If consent is not given, it's rape.
If a person is unable to give consent, it's rape.0 -
At what point does the "victim" need to take some responsibility for getting so incredibly drunk that they black out? Assuming they were't drugged, of course. People (men and women) should know that there are risks associated with getting completely tanked outside of alcohol poisoning.I don't remember the exact statistic, but more than 75% of sexual assaults involve alcohol.
If both parties are drunk and perhaps the assailant was in a black out, would you still lable the assailant as "rapist?" How do you feel about the prospect of prosecuting a case in which the victim was very drunk and only remembers pieces of the night? If you were a on a joury, and a person is claiming they were raped, there is evidence that sex took place between victim and alleged assailant, perhaps the victim has bruises, but there are no witnesses and both parties were drunk, which conclusion do you think you would come to and why?
If consent is not given, it's rape.
If a person is unable to give consent, it's rape.
If someone is too drunk to give consent, it is rape. Period.
It is NEVER the victim's "fault".0 -
At what point does the "victim" need to take some responsibility for getting so incredibly drunk that they black out? Assuming they were't drugged, of course. People (men and women) should know that there are risks associated with getting completely tanked outside of alcohol poisoning.I don't remember the exact statistic, but more than 75% of sexual assaults involve alcohol.
If both parties are drunk and perhaps the assailant was in a black out, would you still lable the assailant as "rapist?" How do you feel about the prospect of prosecuting a case in which the victim was very drunk and only remembers pieces of the night? If you were a on a joury, and a person is claiming they were raped, there is evidence that sex took place between victim and alleged assailant, perhaps the victim has bruises, but there are no witnesses and both parties were drunk, which conclusion do you think you would come to and why?
If consent is not given, it's rape.
If a person is unable to give consent, it's rape.
If someone is too drunk to give consent, it is rape. Period.
It is NEVER the victim's "fault".
I think that we often get into heated arguments about rape because people often get responsiblity, morality, and fault all mixed into one. If a girl drinks to much and pass out and is raped because of it. I think it is fair for me to say that she made some bad decisions and acted unwisely, as most of us in our lives will do (some more than others). But there is no moral judgement here. THe morality of rape is that no matter how foolishly or irresponisbly the victim has behaved, that just not justify the rapists behaviors.
I might be an idiot an leave all the doors in my house unlocked, the lights off, and the security system disarmed, but if someone breaks in and steals my stuff, they are still at fault, criminal, and liable for their own actions. I might have made a personal error in judgement that night in the rush to leave my house, but nothing I did was remotely criminal or immoral.0 -
So, I can go out, get wasted, sleep with some dude I dont know, cry rape and that I was "too drunk to consent" and he gets marked a sexual predator for the rest of his life? Seems fair.
At what point does the "victim" need to take some responsibility for getting so incredibly drunk that they black out? Assuming they were't drugged, of course. People (men and women) should know that there are risks associated with getting completely tanked outside of alcohol poisoning.I don't remember the exact statistic, but more than 75% of sexual assaults involve alcohol.
If both parties are drunk and perhaps the assailant was in a black out, would you still lable the assailant as "rapist?" How do you feel about the prospect of prosecuting a case in which the victim was very drunk and only remembers pieces of the night? If you were a on a joury, and a person is claiming they were raped, there is evidence that sex took place between victim and alleged assailant, perhaps the victim has bruises, but there are no witnesses and both parties were drunk, which conclusion do you think you would come to and why?
If consent is not given, it's rape.
If a person is unable to give consent, it's rape.
If someone is too drunk to give consent, it is rape. Period.
It is NEVER the victim's "fault".0 -
So, I can go out, get wasted, sleep with some dude I dont know, cry rape and that I was "too drunk to consent" and he gets marked a sexual predator for the rest of his life? Seems fair.If someone is too drunk to give consent, it is rape. Period.
It is NEVER the victim's "fault".
See adrian_indy's reply above. He said it better than I can.
Victim blaming just pisses me off too much to debate coherently.0 -
I didn't say it was their "fault" I said that people need to take responsibility for their drinking, for choices they make. Nobody deserves to be violated like that, however; if I make a stupid choice to get to black out stage, I have to assume bad things could happen to me. JMO.See adrian_indy's reply above. He said it better than I can.
Victim blaming just pisses me off too much to debate coherently.0 -
I didn't say it was their "fault" I said that people need to take responsibility for their drinking, for choices they make. Nobody deserves to be violated like that, however; if I make a stupid choice to get to black out stage, I have to assume bad things could happen to me. JMO.See adrian_indy's reply above. He said it better than I can.
Victim blaming just pisses me off too much to debate coherently.
The people who get raped will always live with the fact that someone violated their body. Always.0 -
I didn't say it was their "fault" I said that people need to take responsibility for their drinking, for choices they make. Nobody deserves to be violated like that, however; if I make a stupid choice to get to black out stage, I have to assume bad things could happen to me. JMO.See adrian_indy's reply above. He said it better than I can.
Victim blaming just pisses me off too much to debate coherently.
I understand what you are saying. Everyone needs to be held accountable for their own actions. And of course when I defend the victim of rape, I am assuming that they are, in fact, the victim and not framing the other party involved. But as I said before, most yound people in this nation and else where are going to do some rather foolish things in their life time, as I most certainly did. But saying that a victim should be accountable for her irresponsible behavior is sort of moot, since she paid a stiff price having being violated. No one should have to learn a lesson in that way, should they?
It's a complex issue. Because just like the ladies, men should be held accountable for their actions as well, and it is indeed risky to be so absolutely drunk that you can be so drunk and on auto-pilot that you can be in the position to be accused of rape. Once again, this is not a moral judgement, and if a person is falsely accused of rape it is traggic, but I wouldn't sit there and call him a dumb *kitten* because he will be learning his lesson in the court system. What further advice could I give?0 -
No, a man isn't "receiving signals".. that's an excuse. It's also incredibly sexist that women apparently can't wear what they want without worrying about some man attacking her. Are we supposed to live in fear? If he wants to have sex with her, he needs to ask for consent, not just go for it.
Wrote this a (long)while ago and though it was pertinent, I imagine there will be people that disagree with this mentality:
I will dress as I please, shaking my hips and strutting my luscious curves. You can not tell me the motion of my body justifies your crass comments or wondering hands. Don't grab my *kitten*, don't tell me where you want to put it, don't you dare follow me home. My legs are long, my breasts are supple but keep your hands off me! My shirt may be low, my skirt short but I said "No" D@mnit! I don't want to kiss you, I don't want you to touch me, you'd better walk away now! Stop treating me like that, stop saying I wanted it, keep your f**ing hands off me!!!
No one will tell me I am at fault simply because I am comfortable in my skin. I will dress as provocatively as I please and it's your responsibility to keep it i your pants. I amy dress like a sl*t. I may act like one; giving myself freely, but that is my choice. I mean what I say and I said "NO" mother f***er! My body is mine to give not yours to take.Then, since we men can't understand and you speak for women, would you do us a favor and tell them to please stop liking it when a man, "doesn't ask and just goes for it."
Ladies, do you prefer that a man ask if he has permission to kiss you or just lean in and go for it? Does it turn you on when a guy says "Would it be ok with you if we had intercourse? And could you sign this statement to that affect?"
DO NOT mistake what I am saying for any kind of rape justification. Like my fellow bros here I too have had to shut things down mid-coitus. Not my best night, but damn sure better than ignoring the girl. That is simply not an option.
YES men could ask for explicit permission before the occurence of a sex act. But if we did there would be no more sex acts.
I do agree with you that it does not matter what a woman wears, she could be stark naked. If she doesn't want you to touch her you don't touch her. Period.
I totally get what you're saying Brett. I remember my 1st boyfriend asking if he could kiss me and then asking if he could take off my shirt and i was like "dude, if you ask I'll probably say 'no' but if you just go for it, I'll probably go along for the ride." That being said, if someone does just go for it and I say "no" then they better back the heck off!0 -
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I totally get what you're saying Brett. I remember my 1st boyfriend asking if he could kiss me and then asking if he could take off my shirt and i was like "dude, if you ask I'll probably say 'no' but if you just go for it, I'll probably go along for the ride." That being said, if someone does just go for it and I say "no" then they better back the heck off!
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^^^^^This exactly! You said it much better than I did.0 -
Are you kidding me? Thank you for mansplaining that to me, but no.. you are living a man's experience of the world, not a woman's, so you can't tell me how "progressive" it is when it's just not.
No. I'm a feminist and yes men can be raped. The statistics have it much, much lower than men raping women, but there are instances of women raping men.That being said, there is a reason I can't leave my house unlocked or my children unattended. People will take advantage, so while I would never ever assign moral judgement to a rape victim or try to give a lady who was the victim of an attack my 20/20 hind sight into what she did foolishly, I just would give women the same advice I would give and have given my sister. Of course we want to have fun. Of course many young people want to go out and drink and have a good time. But no one else is going to look out for you like you will. So go out with friends, don't drink yourself into oblivion, don't go into strange places alone with strange people, have a DD. With fun, no matter what it is, almost always comes an inherent risk. You can still have a blast and manage those risks to minimize the risk that you will be a victim. And not to be an alarmist, but you have to realize that on any given night in any busy bar, there is at least one rapist. Statistically, there almost has to be. Don't let it be you.
No, No, No, No, NO. Women do NOT have to 'hide' themselves. Men need to stop raping! I'll repeat that because it's so basic but gets missed all the time. MEN NEED TO STOP RAPING. We need to stop telling our women how to avoid getting raped and telling our men not to rape. Because they do and in massive numbers.At what point does the "victim" need to take some responsibility for getting so incredibly drunk that they black out? Assuming they were't drugged, of course. People (men and women) should know that there are risks associated with getting completely tanked outside of alcohol poisoning.
None. It is NEVER the fault of the person being taken advantage of. It is ALWAYS the fault of the person who rapes her.So, I can go out, get wasted, sleep with some dude I dont know, cry rape and that I was "too drunk to consent" and he gets marked a sexual predator for the rest of his life? Seems fair.
The statistics of women 'crying rape' (and that is a DISGUSTING thing to say. I hate rape apologists) is so low its barely a blip.0 -
Are you kidding me? Thank you for mansplaining that to me, but no.. you are living a man's experience of the world, not a woman's, so you can't tell me how "progressive" it is when it's just not.
No. I'm a feminist and yes men can be raped. The statistics have it much, much lower than men raping women, but there are instances of women raping men.That being said, there is a reason I can't leave my house unlocked or my children unattended. People will take advantage, so while I would never ever assign moral judgement to a rape victim or try to give a lady who was the victim of an attack my 20/20 hind sight into what she did foolishly, I just would give women the same advice I would give and have given my sister. Of course we want to have fun. Of course many young people want to go out and drink and have a good time. But no one else is going to look out for you like you will. So go out with friends, don't drink yourself into oblivion, don't go into strange places alone with strange people, have a DD. With fun, no matter what it is, almost always comes an inherent risk. You can still have a blast and manage those risks to minimize the risk that you will be a victim. And not to be an alarmist, but you have to realize that on any given night in any busy bar, there is at least one rapist. Statistically, there almost has to be. Don't let it be you.
No, No, No, No, NO. Women do NOT have to 'hide' themselves. Men need to stop raping! I'll repeat that because it's so basic but gets missed all the time. MEN NEED TO STOP RAPING. We need to stop telling our women how to avoid getting raped and telling our men not to rape. Because they do and in massive numbers.At what point does the "victim" need to take some responsibility for getting so incredibly drunk that they black out? Assuming they were't drugged, of course. People (men and women) should know that there are risks associated with getting completely tanked outside of alcohol poisoning.
None. It is NEVER the fault of the person being taken advantage of. It is ALWAYS the fault of the person who rapes her.So, I can go out, get wasted, sleep with some dude I dont know, cry rape and that I was "too drunk to consent" and he gets marked a sexual predator for the rest of his life? Seems fair.
The statistics of women 'crying rape' (and that is a DISGUSTING thing to say. I hate rape apologists) is so low its barely a blip.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! I'm not excusing the behavior of the rapist. In theory a woman should be able to walk around naked if she wants to and fear no assault. But that is not the world we live in. I'm not about to crap on anyones good time, but it's not a good idea to walk around with our heads in the cloud because a certain percentage of the population are ALWAYS going to be predators. I'm not trying to be cynical, but that is the reality we live in. The vast majority don't need to be told rape is bad, we already know in this society. No where did I say that a woman should have to hide herself. Not once did I say that. But I were a woman, I think it's common sense not to go out alone, get blackout drunk with strangers, because you are gambling with your life. Just exercise a little caution.0 -
The problem is that women are the ones being told to "be careful not to get raped" when instead, men should be told not to rape anyone.. and that if you see a woman alone, leave her alone. if a woman is drunk, don't take advantage of her, etc.0
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The problem is that women are the ones being told to "be careful not to get raped" when instead, men should be told not to rape anyone.. and that if you see a woman alone, leave her alone. if a woman is drunk, don't take advantage of her, etc.
I'm pretty sure most men are told that raping people is bad.0 -
The problem is that women are the ones being told to "be careful not to get raped" when instead, men should be told not to rape anyone.. and that if you see a woman alone, leave her alone. if a woman is drunk, don't take advantage of her, etc.
I really doubt this is a "one or the other" situation. You should educate BOTH sides on the matter.
I do think as modern day women, however, we should be perfectly capable of taking care of ourselves, and placing ourselves in safe situations. (i.e. knowing your limit, sticking with friends or people you trust, avoid dark sketchy alley ways in the middle of the night)
I remember being little and (not the brightest) shoved by hand into my grandma's dogs mouth. The dog bit me out of instinct and my mother simply said "this will teach you to be a little more careful next time won't it!"
My story is not to imply that a male will rape by instinct (because that would be ignorant and wholly untrue), BUT I had put myself into a situation that was somewhat preventable. Yes, there is always a chance the dog would have bitten me regardless of what I did.. but my chance increased exponentially the second I placed myself in a poor situation and stopped thinking logically.(as logically as a 4 year old can think...) I just had to be aware that it WAS preventable.
So while we do not need to be told "be careful not to get raped" as women, we still need to make smart choices, and take care of ourselves instead of hoping everyone else in the world was raised properly.0 -
I remember a study I read in a social psych class (Malamuth, Haber, and Feschbach, 1980- Testing hypotheses regarding rape: Exposure to sexual violence, sex differences, and the “normality” of rapists) which showed some disturbing trends.
More than 50% of the men in the study admitted they would rape if they knew there would be no consequences. There was also a high percentage of men who thought women would enjoy being raped. I'm not sure on the percent of that as I've only just found the citation online. I'm sure I have the full source somewhere at home.
Anyway, interesting to think about. Alcohol provides more of a feeling that they would not get caught, and therefore may be more likely to act in an aggressively sexual way. I agree with whoever said that alcohol doesn't make you do bad things, it just makes it easier to do the bad things you want to do anyway. Punish 'em
As the Sublime song "Date Rape," goes:
The moral of the date rape story
It does not pay to be drunk and horny
But that's the way it had to be
They locked him up and threw away the key
Well, I can't take pity on men of his kind
Even though he now takes it in the behind0 -
The moral of the date rape story
It does not pay to be drunk and horny
But that's the way it had to be
They locked him up and threw away the key
Well, I can't take pity on men of his kind
Even though he now takes it in the behind
I used to rock this cd on the way to school every day of my senior year :smokin:0
