Womens roll in society
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I think SAHDs like me work as hard as SAHMs with one huge improvement....I put out for my wife on command.
There's a lot of data out there that disputes the first point... not sure I want to comment on the second. :-D0 -
I think SAHDs like me work as hard as SAHMs with one huge improvement....I put out for my wife on command.
There's a lot of data out there that disputes the first point... not sure I want to comment on the second. :-D
What data? By who? What does it say? I guess I'm being a little facetious at this point. I look at a lot of threads like this and the ones about welfare or affirmative action, and it just looks like a breeding ground for people to brag about how hard they work. Funny, I've never heard anyone admit they sit on their butt all day in these debates.0 -
I've been a SAHM and I've worked full-time, outside fo the home for 20 years now. So, I can certainly speak from my own experience. I was just as busy working when I stayed home and I am working outside of the home. I don't know why you can't get your head around the fact that some SAHMs "work" just as many hours. I never claimed that ALL of them do. I never claimed there aren't lazy SAHMs who sit around watching soap operas all day. I'm disputing the claim that because women work outside the home means their work has doubled. Maybe for some, but not for all.Yes, this is what I do too. Plus an 8-10 hour shift of paid employment. That's really the point that macpatti can't seem to get her head round. We do all this PLUS paid employment.0 -
Not all working women have other people raising their kids, and I hate that assumption.
Not sure if this is directed at my comment, I said someone else is "taking care of the children" while mom is at work. Not "raising" them. What I mean by that is, SAHMs take care of their children all day. Working moms take care of their children when they're not working.
This seems a fallacious assumption to me, unless we're solely talking about the SAHM's of under-school-age children. If you are a SAHM of children who are at school all day, then you are only taking care of your children during the hours they are not in school, in common with many parents (not just mothers) who find ways to fit their working schedules around school hours.0 -
That statement was soley about SAHMs of under-school-age children.This seems a fallacious assumption to me, unless we're solely talking about the SAHM's of under-school-age children. If you are a SAHM of children who are at school all day, then you are only taking care of your children during the hours they are not in school, in common with many parents (not just mothers) who find ways to fit their working schedules around school hours.0 -
I don't know that I would say their responsibilities have doubled, just changed. While they're at work, someone else is taking care of their children. While it's true that some still have to go home to cook and clean, they would have done that anyway. A full-time working mom needs a housekeeper for sure!
So, to go back to your original statement, if your children are school-aged and you're a SAHM, equally, someone else is taking care of your children during the school day. Unless you, as a SAHM of school-age children, are working from home in a business or volutary context for the same number of hours as a mother working outside the home, the time during which you do not have primary care of the children is presumably available to you for the cooking and cleaning that some (I would say many) WOHM have to do as well as taking care of their working and childcare commitments. While I'm aware that some SAHM do run businesses from home that demand the equivalent of full-time outside-the-home hours, many do not. It would therefore seem logical to assume than many SAHM (of school-age children) have fewer responsibilities than a WOHM, who must typically keep up with the same responsibilities as a SAHM, in addition to her work responsibilities, resulting in what is often called a "double shift".0 -
Correct for SAHMs of school-aged children.So, to go back to your original statement, if your children are school-aged and you're a SAHM, equally, someone else is taking care of your children during the school day. Unless you, as a SAHM of school-age children, are working from home in a business or volutary context for the same number of hours as a mother working outside the home, the time during which you do not have primary care of the children is presumably available to you for the cooking and cleaning that some (I would say many) WOHM have to do as well as taking care of their working and childcare commitments. While I'm aware that some SAHM do run businesses from home that demand the equivalent of full-time outside-the-home hours, many do not. It would therefore seem logical to assume than many SAHM (of school-age children) have fewer responsibilities than a WOHM, who must typically keep up with the same responsibilities as a SAHM, in addition to her work responsibilities, resulting in what is often called a "double shift".0 -
I think SAHDs like me work as hard as SAHMs with one huge improvement....I put out for my wife on command.
There's a lot of data out there that disputes the first point... not sure I want to comment on the second. :-D
What data? By who? What does it say? I guess I'm being a little facetious at this point. I look at a lot of threads like this and the ones about welfare or affirmative action, and it just looks like a breeding ground for people to brag about how hard they work. Funny, I've never heard anyone admit they sit on their butt all day in these debates.
There are dozens of studies that suggest that, while the gap is narrowing, working women still tend to perform the balance of domestic chores. This isn't a comment on your personal arrangements (or indeed, frankly, my own), but it is what the balance of research indicates. If you don't believe me, check out google scholar.0 -
I think SAHDs like me work as hard as SAHMs with one huge improvement....I put out for my wife on command.
There's a lot of data out there that disputes the first point... not sure I want to comment on the second. :-D
What data? By who? What does it say? I guess I'm being a little facetious at this point. I look at a lot of threads like this and the ones about welfare or affirmative action, and it just looks like a breeding ground for people to brag about how hard they work. Funny, I've never heard anyone admit they sit on their butt all day in these debates.
Nope, I admit it. I sit on my *kitten* for hours, usually while on MFP. My lazy nature aside, I am really replying to this thread because I think that SAHD work as hard as SAHM. AND they usually have to do it without the support system of other stay at home parents. There are tons of SAHM clubs, but very few groups for dads. SAHDs do what I do, they do it without the same amount support that mom's get and if this poor fellow is to be believed they are being sexually harassed as well.0 -
Women's ROLES in society have changed, but not dramatically. Yes, more women work and more women obtain work in traditionally male-dominated jobs such as politicians, engineers, etc. However, the basic ROLE of being the "nurturer" remains the same.Do you think since women have been in the workplace that now their responsibilities have doubled combining working and the older female roll, now they work, clean, cook and take care of the kids? Or do you feel men have stepped up their roll in the home since most women work now too?0 -
Fact: Both SAHMs and moms who work outside the home have 24 hours a day.So, was there any, you know, factual stuff you wanted to throw my way? A bit of logic? Something actually relevant to the discussion?
Fact: SAHMS can "work" just as many hours as moms who work outside the home.
Fact: Unemployed single men have 24 hours a day. And.... ? Are you suggesting they work as hard as I do just cause they're, you know, *awake*?
The fact that everyone has 24 hours in their day doesn't mean those 24 hours are spent working.
My mum raised 5 kids. She worked damn hard, and I respect that. . But frankly, she did not put in the sheer numbers of labour that I do, and that the working mothers I know do. . She simply didn't. When her kids were in bed, she put her feet up. When my kid is in bed, I work several more hours. I work in the morning while my kid is still sleeping. Working mothers I know who don't bring work home with them still end up labouring late into the night, doing washing and ironing and cleaning. Stuff a well organised SAHM manages to get done during the day. I know I sure as nuts did when I was a SAHM, and so did my mother. When I was at home with my child, I had all the domestic work done by 11am. That's not an option for me now that I'm working full time, so it gets done at other times.
We simply, and straightforwardly end up with double the responsibility. We are responsible for our families AND we are responsible for our paid work. I don't believe it *should* be this way. I do believe that it ends up *being* this way.
I'm not sure why you find this so very hard to grasp. Your equations don't add up. They just don't. That you continue to repeat them doesn't make them any more true.
Yes, of course there'll be instances of individual mothers who go against this grain. But if you really think that this is the *general* trend - that SAHM and working mothers put in equal hours, I'm sorry, but I don't think you can support that with logic or evidence. The fact that you just repeat the same thing over and over suggests that that is certainly the case.
This ^^^0 -
I stayed at home with my son until he went to school at 5 years old and never thought of it as work it was pure pleasure and like one of the posters said I had plenty of time to get everything done so that when he went to bed I could put my feet up. We were broke but happy. Lovely.
Then I got a full time job and not enough hours in the day and my weekends taken up with chores not so pleasurable. But I could afford to buy him the stuff he needed as he got older and take him on holidays which were great. So it is all swings and roundabouts really you sacrifice one thing for another.0 -
Do you think since women have been in the workplace that now their responsibilities have doubled combining working and the older female roll, now they work, clean, cook and take care of the kids? Or do you feel men have stepped up their roll in the home since most women work now too?
I feel like men have stepped up - with or without kids. My husband does his share of household chores (laundry, cleaning, yard work, garbage duty, some cooking etc) and we both work FT. We split chores, not formally, we just work together to get things done.
If we have a child I will SAH and he will still work FT and also will do his share of parenting when he isn't working so I can get out of the house and work out, or do things outside the home. I will at that point assume most of the household chores. That doesn't mean his share of work is less though.
My parents both worked FT. My dad was the one who cooked most meals and taxi'd me & my friends around. I can't say my Mom was doing any more than my Dad. In fact my Dad worked 7 days a week, not just 5, and did all those other things. In my parents case I'd say my Dad did far more "work".0 -
Do you think since women have been in the workplace that now their responsibilities have doubled combining working and the older female roll, now they work, clean, cook and take care of the kids? Or do you feel men have stepped up their roll in the home since most women work now too?
I don't know what the rest of the world is doing, but my wife and I shared responsibilities. Raised three girls with no problems. No job or task in our household was or is gender specific. One of us, or, or often than not, both of us attended school meetings, went to games, chauffeered kids, hosted gatherings, whatever.0
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