Squats form check please!

EricMurano

Hi guys,

Can anyone point out any obvious problems with my form? I'll do more videos at different angles soon if that'll help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgZSv9xEvyw

Thanks in advance

Jeff92se

Looks perfect. how much weight is that? I see on the 1st 1 or two, your heels lifted up. but really that's a nickpic.

As the weights get heavier, you might want to pick a spot on the ceiling and look at that. So you head is up. Looking forward or down might allow your butt to raise first when you start to go up from the squat position. that will be bad. But again, as far as your current form, it's right now. nice boots for the job also

EricMurano

Thanks! I'll have to watch for heel raise tomorrow. I purposefully raise my toes so I push from my heels but obviously I'm letting that go early.

It was 90kg that time. I was up to 105kg the session before but I wanted to sure up my form before progressing further.

gp79

The one thing that stands out to me is your hip drive. More hip drive. According to Starting Strength, you will want your neck aligned with your spine, so the proper place to look would be 5 - 6 feet in front of you on the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgZSv9xEvyw

EricMurano

Do you mean that I should start pushing my hips forward sooner than I do?

Jeff92se

You want you head up, not down

EricMurano

I've heard of looking down and I've heard of looking straight ahead. Never heard of looking up at the ceiling.

FoxyMcDeadlift

When you walk out, you stumble a bit. A guy at my gym gave me a top tip for walking out, load the bar, one foot back, second foot back, then move your feet out into squating position. A little set up routine like this can save you a bit of energy and stop you slipping about. Especially handy as the weights get heavier

Think of it as a movement like 1-2 3-4.

MercenaryNoetic26

Very good! I think you're dropping the booty pretty good. Your knees appear to be going down in line with your toes. How does the movement feel? If it feels good, I wouldn't change anything. Every now and then my man reminds me to back the booty out more before going down. Otherwise, keep doin' what you're doin'.

(edit), yeah I noticed that it took a while to step back and begin the squat. The form itself was good.

Mike523

You want you head up, not down

Not according to Mark Rippetoe...

Jeff92se

You want you head up, not down

Not according to Mark Rippetoe...

That's great for Mark. Head down = possible bowing of back and more tendency to lift your rear first upon the first movement up. If you can prevent both while looking down on the ground, great. But why set yourself up for those tendencies?

Mike523

That's great for Mark. Head down = possible bowing of back and more tendency to lift your rear first upon the first movement up. If you can prevent both while looking down on the ground, great. But why set yourself up for those tendencies?

Here's an excerpt from Starting Strength:

Looking up at the ceiling when squatting has so many detrimental effects on proper technique that some law against it will eventually have to be adopted. It is the enemy of correct bottom position, hip drive out of the bottom, and correct chest position, the three most important factors in a safe, correct squat. This bizarre neck position is inherently unsafe anyway. To place the cervical spine in extreme hyperextension and then to place a heavy weight on the trapezius muscles directly underneath it is, at best, imprudent.

An upward-directed eye gaze quite effectively diminishes the ability to use the posterior chain during the drive up from the bottom. Try this: assume a good deep bottom position as described earlier, with knees out, toes out, and heels down. Put the chin slightly down and look at a point on the floor five or six feet in front of you. Now drive your hips up out of the bottom, and make note of how this feels. Now do the same thing while attempting to look at the ceiling You will discover an amazing thing — that chin-down (looking down keeps the chin down) with the neck in a normal anatomical position enables your hip drive. And it helps you keep your chest up, so that your upper back is in the normal anatomical position for the thoracic spine under load. Correct chest position is an important factor in placing the lumbar spine in the correctly extended, slightly arched position. Correct lumbar position is essential for full utilization of the hamstrings and glutes out of the bottom, because when they are stretched more completely they can contract more completely and generate more power over a longer range. So bad neck position sets up a series of bad positions that greatly diminishes the safety and effectiveness of the squat.

I'm certainly not an expert, but Rippetoe is and I tend to trust his opinion.

Jeff92se

I was taught to keep my head up from a world class powerlifter with a 800+lb squat.

It's certainly not some extreme position. A number of record holding power lifters that I had the pleasure of training with while I was competing all held the same opinion.

When I say look up, I mean find a spot on the ceiling that's pretty far in front of you. Not immediately above you.

Mark also mentions that a more horizontal back position involves more muscle mass. Well as your back goes horizontal, you are putting the bar futher from the centerline of your body. Increasing the lever pressure the weight is exerting on your back. Essentially turning the squat into a "good morning" back lift. That means in addition to actually lifting weight "up", you also have to lift the weight back into the more vertical position that you originally started at. Yes, head down might involve more muscles because you are asking your lower back to take on more load. The purpose of a powerlifter is to lift the most weight in a legal squat. Not to involve the most muscle.

Mike523

Good info Jeff. I think the difference in opinion boils down to your last statement. I think Rippetoe's purpose in Starting Strength is instructing beginner and intermediate trainees how to build functional real-world strength, not instructing competitive powerlifters how to lift the most weight in a legal squat. There's obviously a big difference between these 2 audiences, and I could see the recommended form being different.

Regarding the "good morning" lift, Rippetoe doesn't have the trainees changing back angle during the lift, so it's not really like a good morning. Here's what he recommends as proper botttom position:



It's all good man, I like hearing others' opinions on this stuff.

Jeff92se

I see what he means about keeping the spine angle consistent.

But I defer back to my 1st reply. In my experience, the lower you keep your head down, the greater the tendency for your butt to lift first out of the hole. And that will flatten your spine angle as you rise up. Essentially doing a good morning squat. Okay with 135lbs. Not okay with 405lbs.

IMHO, looking up isn't stressing the area of the spine with the weight on it. And the angle isn't severe as he implies in his article.

It's all good though. Thanks for the conversation

MercenaryNoetic26

Personally, I like to find a dirty spot on the mirror above and focus on it. You're not moving your head toward the ceiling you're just focusing your eyes forward and/or up. I find it helps me keep my composure. Kinda like if you turn your head to dig in your purse while you're driving and your hands kind of instinctively steer to the right. Men if you see women swerving they're probably digging around in their purse on the passenger seat. Sometimes things are taken too literally on here.

Is it "safe" to say keep your head/neck in line with your back throughout the movement?

EricMurano

When you walk out, you stumble a bit. A guy at my gym gave me a top tip for walking out, load the bar, one foot back, second foot back, then move your feet out into squating position. A little set up routine like this can save you a bit of energy and stop you slipping about. Especially handy as the weights get heavier

Think of it as a movement like 1-2 3-4.

Hehe yeah I've never been able to step back smoothly. I'll have to pay more attention to it though, as the weight is getting a little too serious for my stumbling steps. I'll try your suggestion. I might do some practice back steps with my working weight before my working sets.

Very good! I think you're dropping the booty pretty good. Your knees appear to be going down in line with your toes. How does the movement feel? If it feels good, I wouldn't change anything. Every now and then my man reminds me to back the booty out more before going down. Otherwise, keep doin' what you're doin'.

(edit), yeah I noticed that it took a while to step back and begin the squat. The form itself was good.

Thank you The movement felt fine in that video. It didn't feel right at 105kg though. I think I was pushing with the toes rather than the heels.


RE: head position I'll try looking both up and down during my warm ups but I'm pretty sure about looking straight ahead.

RE: Mark Rippetoe he's not as well known in the body building community as he is in the strength training community. I do watch his videos but I acknowledge that there's varying opinions with this stuff and there might not be one true way to do a power squat. I just want to avoid universally bad habits like the butt wink and knees caving in etc.


EDIT: I'm going to the gym in a few hours. I'll tape myself again along with two warm up sets: one with head looking up and one with head looking down. I'll let you know whether they feel 'right' or not. I'm also going to tape my dead lifts. I had some advice from a PT the other day. I didn't hire him but he thought my technique was so bad that he had to come tell me not to 'arch my back'. I'll post a new topic with my way and his way to see what everyone thinks.

FoxyMcDeadlift

Rippetoe is THE MAN when it comes to teaching people how to do the core lifts. If you havent already, watch his signature deadlift and squat instructional videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kawBY5p29fQ - Squat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA - Dealift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkF9QD7oCIA - EliteFTS so you think you can squat

mideon_696

Not too bad man.

More hip drive though. There's little to none at the moment.

Check this guy out. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DM3leg47WQ&feature=related

EricMurano

Rippetoe is THE MAN when it comes to teaching people how to do the core lifts. If you havent already, watch his signature deadlift and squat instructional videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kawBY5p29fQ - Squat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA - Dealift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkF9QD7oCIA - EliteFTS so you think you can squat

Oh I love the EliftFTS vids but I zone out while listening to him talk. I will make the effort to get through the whole series.

I've watched some of Rippetoe's videos and I've been trying to implement his recommendations. Sometimes it's hard to tell if you're doing something bad despite seeing video of yourself.

Not too bad man.

More hip drive though. There's little to none at the moment.

Check this guy out. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DM3leg47WQ&feature=related

I paid attention to hip drive tonight. I taped it and I'll chuck it up youtube soon. It felt easier to push the weight up using (what I think was) hip drive. You'll see in the vid and you'll be able to tell me whether I was actually using hip drive.

EricMurano

Ok here's the video with me paying attention to hip drive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5eONuh7G5Q

I didn't pay too much attention to pushing from the heels. Looking at the video I think I can see my feet rocking forward just a smidge on the way up then rocking back at the top of the movement.

Anyway I tried to snap my hips forward near the top of the movement. I found that it made it easy to get that last bit out. Is that what hip drive is meant to do for you?



I like looking forward but I tried looking up and looking down on my warm up with the empty bar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAlpAs8roBw

I didn't have the balls to try either way with heavier weights.

gp79

You want you head up, not down

Not according to Mark Rippetoe. I trust his instruction.

gp79

Ok here's the video with me paying attention to hip drive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5eONuh7G5Q

I didn't pay too much attention to pushing from the heels. Looking at the video I think I can see my feet rocking forward just a smidge on the way up then rocking back at the top of the movement.

Anyway I tried to snap my hips forward near the top of the movement. I found that it made it easy to get that last bit out. Is that what hip drive is meant to do for you?



I like looking forward but I tried looking up and looking down on my warm up with the empty bar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAlpAs8roBw

I didn't have the balls to try either way with heavier weights.

Reps 2, 3, 4 & 5, good hip drive in my opinion.

gp79

Also I might suggest posting your video's for form check on www.bodyrecomposition.com as well as Rips forum. Keep in mind that if you are going to post video's for form check, to read and follow their guidelines for taking the videos so you can be evaluated properly.

EricMurano

Thanks for your help guys

Also I might suggest posting your video's for form check on www.bodyrecomposition.com as well as Rips forum. Keep in mind that if you are going to post video's for form check, to read and follow their guidelines for taking the videos so you can be evaluated properly.

I'll look into it, thanks