Veggies vs Meat
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I seem to remember reading something about Vegetarians having a higher conversion rate of ALA to EPA and DHA. I don't remember where I read this, and I don't know if the conversion rate would be high enough to compensate for a lack of EPA and DHA in the diet.
Guess my $.02 isn't very helpful. Carry on, kids.
Rocky, from what I know about the subject (not much) I have heard what you read as well as other things. I think V on V is right in saying that nobody really knows.
Anyway, good post.0 -
Mutt,
And there is another important thing you should know. Both animals and vegetables have been altered genetically for the past 6,000 years by unnatural selection. BIrds like chicken have been genetically selected for breeding by humans who wanted more meat on the bone. Ancient corn, which may have had one or two dozen scrawny kernals per ear, now have hundreds, because we like corn with more kernals. The Paleo diet, even if you knew what it was, even if you knew the percentage of veggies to meat, and even if you knew what people in your exact region ate 6000 years ago would nonetheless be impossible to reproduce because of genetic changes between wild oand cultivated food that have occurred over the years.
Although your diet is perhaps closer to mine than most Americans, you philosohy makes little sense to me.
Yep, you might enjoy Wheat Belly, haven't read it myself but made a splash in the Paleo community recently the premise of which is that wheat is dramatically different now and that has had a deleterious impact on our health. I've mentioned many times in my posts the fact that there isn't a single Paleo diet. It would have varied based on climate and region. I've often wondered if this could help explain the individual differences in our reactions to macro nutrients. Some people claim they try to eat the diet that suits their ancestry, that could tricky for many though. Regardless, Primal is a framework, a starting point, as I've also said many times before. Part of Primal is your own n=1, how do your respond to dairy for example or potatoes. Again, it isn't a rigid set of rules based on some idealized past that never existed. What it often equates to is eat whole, unprocessed foods, eliminate grains (including corn) and other sources of anti nutrients. The Primal concept is the framework, the lens through which decisions around nutrition may be viewed, informed by science. The science always wins.
As your wife has pointed out, it's impossible to eat the exact diet we evolved eat but the goal of Primal is to move closer to that general ideal. Where we differ in our beliefs of course is the degree to which we evolved to eat animal protein. My reading convinces me we are omnivores and optimal health can be obtained by including animal protein and vegetables in my diet.
Mutt,
Do you realize that Paleo is a phony diet? Not that I am criticizing eating less meat, but there is no way in Hell you could know what people GENERALLY ate 6000 years ago. In a few specific cases remains can be analyzed and things can be surmised from animal bones and ancient seeds and whatever was near sites of ancient human habitations, but as I have said a million times these are all anecdotal. But as you well know, different ancient sites reveal different results. As you also know, there is ample evidence that humans (e.g. Mayans) also ate humans, so you could just as easily argue for canabalism as a dietary choice. You cannot move closer to "that general ideal" when you don't know what the ideal is.
As for us being "omnivores," I have yet to hear a definition of that word that makes sense. Since every herbovore that I know of can eat meat, and since every carnivore I know of can eat plants, what exactly is an omnivore? The word is meaningless. If you define a herbovore as an animal that eats mostly vegetables, and a carnivore as an animal that eats mostly flesh, then that would seem a useable definition, but by that definition, humans are definitely herbovores. If we eat mostly meat, we get chronic health problems. And if these are the definitions you use, what is an omnivore?
So your dietary choices seem to revolve around two undefinable terms,"Primal diet" and "Omnivore." It sounds to me like this is just a cover for "eat anything you want." If I say the most common Primal diet 6000 years ago was "Cheeseburgers and Fries," prove I am wrong.
VegesaurusRex: Is this thread about using language to provoke those of differing viewpoints?? Or is it to actually discuss differing viewpoints intelligently?? Come on... This is not Logic or Intro to Eating 101... we aren't sophomores in college here (well, it seems most of us aren't anyway)... I am actually here to learn, not attack others because I don't like that they eat or don't meat. (Besides, I could give a rip if they don't eat meat... honestly.)
Jennie, I don't think using logic is either an insult to anyone or unfair. If I said to you that I eat "what God eats," you have a perfect right to ask me the following questions:
1. What does God eat?
2. How do you know that?
Same thing with Paleo :
1. What was the Paleo diet?
2. How do you know what the Paleo diet really was?
These are fundamental and important questions. How can you say you eat the same diet as so-and-so, if you have no idea what that diet was. I suggest that the Paleo diet should consist of mostly plants and for meat worms, insects, slugs and carrion.
I didn't mean using logic was an insult at all... LOL. I meant, the language you are using (semi-insulting) at times reminds me of back in the day in Logic 101 class.0 -
[I didn't mean using logic was an insult at all... LOL. I meant, the language you are using (semi-insulting) at times reminds me of back in the day in Logic 101 class.
Really? What language specifically?0
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