Debatable Debating

Join

Girl Scout cookie ban

245

Replies

  • CasperO
    CasperO Posts: 2,913 Member
    That's disgusting.
    <<snip>>
    Transexual/transgender people exist. Therefore they are deserving of rights and respect. If you've got a differing opinion I can't wait to hear it.
    + 1
    +2
    + 3
    <<snip>>
    +4
    <<snip>>
    +5
  • castadiva
    castadiva Posts: 2,016 Member
    That's disgusting.
    <<snip>>
    Transexual/transgender people exist. Therefore they are deserving of rights and respect. If you've got a differing opinion I can't wait to hear it.
    + 1
    +2
    + 3
    <<snip>>
    +4
    <<snip>>
    +5
    +6
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,788 Member
    I just re-read the article. Transgendered 7 year old? Really? Anybody know of the article that substantiates the claim that someone had their 7-yr old transgendered? I don't believe it. Can't believe that any Doctor would allow it. Are we really talking about someone that is transgendered at 7 yrs old? Changes the focus a little.

    One of you "researcher" types, please, fill me in, because is this is a boy that chooses to dress in girls' clothes, I have a much different opinion.
  • CasperO
    CasperO Posts: 2,913 Member
    Not a choice. Many kids like this are genetically female or hormonally female or both. 1 human being in 1500 is not strictly either/or female/male in medical and genetic terms.

    Imagine if you felt like you feel and were who you are and yet somehow, inexplicably, you had a vajayjay. That's kind'a what this is like, and you don't have to be 22 to know something's up.


    Edit - I just reread your post. What do you mean "someone had their 7-yr old transgendered?". There was no surgery here. "Had"?
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,788 Member
    Not a choice. Many kids like this are genetically female or hormonally female or both. 1 human being in 1500 is not strictly either/or female/male in medical and genetic terms.

    Imagine if you felt like you feel and were who you are and yet somehow, inexplicably, you had a vajayjay. That's kind'a what this is like, and you don't have to be 22 to know something's up.

    I believe you are talking about a Hermaphrodite. I have a family friend that was born with both genitalia. A decision was made at birth. Surgery was done. This is more common than you might know. She was listed as female on her Birth Certificate and was, in fact, in the Girl Scouts herself.

    I would hope that the parents of this child did not wait until they were 7 yrs old to make such a decision.

    btw -- my friend is one of the most beautiful, 6' 4" women I know.
  • jamk1446
    jamk1446 Posts: 5,577 Member
    Roaddog, here is a link to an article and video of the 7 year old child. We're not talking post-operative transgendered; I don't believe any doctor would perform the operation until maturity.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/bobby-montoya-girl-scouts_n_1033308.html
  • castadiva
    castadiva Posts: 2,016 Member
    From what I gather online, the child self-identifies as female, though the physical biology is male. I would certainly hope no reputable surgeon would conduct a surgical sex-change operation on a young child, nor that any parent would permit that. Gender-determination surgery on a child that displays hermaphroditic charcteristics is something very different.

    I can't find anything to say whether or not the cellular or hormonal biology has been explored, but does that really matter?
  • Regmama
    Regmama Posts: 399 Member
    On the Planned Parenthood link: http://www.opposingviews.com/i/relationship-between-girl-scouts-planned-parenthood

    As for me, I hated girl scouts (petty girls, totally not worth it). ON the other hand my dad and I were a part of the (at the time) Indian Princesses (now called Y-Princesses). Totally more fun, less cliquish and at teh middle school level it turns co-ed to Trailblazers. Those truly are some of my fondest memories with my dad. And, as an alternative to the Girl Scouts there is an organization (Christian Based) called American Heritage Girls. Next year we will be signing our daughter up for that, though, considering it's with girls, my guess is that I'll hate it because little girls are so petty, it doesn't matter what their beliefs.
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,788 Member
    Roaddog, here is a link to an article and video of the 7 year old child. We're not talking post-operative transgendered; I don't believe any doctor would perform the operation until maturity.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/bobby-montoya-girl-scouts_n_1033308.html

    Thanks for the info. In this instance, this child should not be allowed into the Girl Scouts.
  • mikajoanow
    mikajoanow Posts: 584 Member
    http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/27/health/transgender-kids/index.html

    ^^Great video. I have three boys, none have ever expressed a feeling that they were the transgender. If they did, I would believe them.

    I don't know enough about the child that took part in the girl scouts to know if that child really feels they are transgendered. Saying you like girl toys is not enough for me. But I assume the mother has seen and knows more than what was on the video. If the kid is transgendered then I am happy the GS let her in. :)
  • castadiva
    castadiva Posts: 2,016 Member
    Roaddog, here is a link to an article and video of the 7 year old child. We're not talking post-operative transgendered; I don't believe any doctor would perform the operation until maturity.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/bobby-montoya-girl-scouts_n_1033308.html

    Thanks for the info. In this instance, this child should not be allowed into the Girl Scouts.

    Why? I'd love to know your reasons. To me, the child is pre-pubertal, so there's no 'risk' in having a biologically male child in a group with females (even if there were, male and female children mix daily at school without anyone getting too worried about it). If the child self-identifies as female, and wishes to participate in an activity aimed at the group they identify with, then where's the harm?
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,788 Member
    Roaddog, here is a link to an article and video of the 7 year old child. We're not talking post-operative transgendered; I don't believe any doctor would perform the operation until maturity.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/bobby-montoya-girl-scouts_n_1033308.html

    Thanks for the info. In this instance, this child should not be allowed into the Girl Scouts.

    Why? I'd love to know your reasons. To me, the child is pre-pubertal, so there's no 'risk' in having a biologically male child in a group with females (even if there were, male and female children mix daily at school without anyone getting too worried about it). If the child self-identifies as female, and wishes to participate in an activity aimed at the group they identify with, then where's the harm?

    I'm not sure there is any harm done. At 7 yrs old, though, I question who's agenda this is. This child may go through many changes over before puberty. He may be heterosexual, homosexual, asexual, or even may go through with the transgender operations, but that is going to be quite a ways off. My main argument is it's the "Girl" Scouts. He is a boy at this moment.

    But that is not my main reason. My main objection is why does everyone else have to make changes to accomodate one person? There is always that one person that wants to make a statement my infiltrating some previously restricted club or organization. Sometimes a group of people that share unique characteristics want to get together, without it becoming some kind of Civil rights movement.

    There are men only clubs, women only, adults only, kids only. What's wrong with that? Some gal recently tried joining a men's only country club and, when she was denied, threw a fit, took legal action. I'm pretty sure she won, because otherwise we would be stepping all over her civil rights with such gender bias. Is it right? What was her point? Forcing herself into a group that doesn't want her? I can't join the local Women's only health club. Am I being discriminated against. Hey! I would like to take a steam bath with a group of naked Mom's. Maybe I should contact a lawyer.

    I'm a biker. I ride with bikers. I don't want you following along in your VW. Does that make me a d*ck?

    I smoke cigars. I have a group of guys that come over regularly. (most of them ride over on a motorcycle). We smoke cigars, drink bourbon, talk about riding and motorcycles and hot girls in leather. If you aren't interested in any of those things, why would you force your way into my group.

    It's the GIRL Scouts. This boy's Birth Certificate says "Male". I say get him into a group that helps potential transgendered kids adapt and cope.
  • mikajoanow
    mikajoanow Posts: 584 Member
    Roaddog, here is a link to an article and video of the 7 year old child. We're not talking post-operative transgendered; I don't believe any doctor would perform the operation until maturity.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/bobby-montoya-girl-scouts_n_1033308.html

    Thanks for the info. In this instance, this child should not be allowed into the Girl Scouts.

    Why? I'd love to know your reasons. To me, the child is pre-pubertal, so there's no 'risk' in having a biologically male child in a group with females (even if there were, male and female children mix daily at school without anyone getting too worried about it). If the child self-identifies as female, and wishes to participate in an activity aimed at the group they identify with, then where's the harm?

    I'm not sure there is any harm done. At 7 yrs old, though, I question who's agenda this is. This child may go through many changes over before puberty. He may be heterosexual, homosexual, asexual, or even may go through with the transgender operations, but that is going to be quite a ways off. My main argument is it's the "Girl" Scouts. He is a boy at this moment.

    But that is not my main reason. My main objection is why does everyone else have to make changes to accomodate one person? There is always that one person that wants to make a statement my infiltrating some previously restricted club or organization. Sometimes a group of people that share unique characteristics want to get together, without it becoming some kind of Civil rights movement.

    There are men only clubs, women only, adults only, kids only. What's wrong with that? Some gal recently tried joining a men's only country club and, when she was denied, threw a fit, took legal action. I'm pretty sure she won, because otherwise we would be stepping all over her civil rights with such gender bias. Is it right? What was her point? Forcing herself into a group that doesn't want her? I can't join the local Women's only health club. Am I being discriminated against. Hey! I would like to take a steam bath with a group of naked Mom's. Maybe I should contact a lawyer.

    I'm a biker. I ride with bikers. I don't want you following along in your VW. Does that make me a d*ck?

    I smoke cigars. I have a group of guys that come over regularly. (most of them ride over on a motorcycle). We smoke cigars, drink bourbon, talk about riding and motorcycles and hot girls in leather. If you aren't interested in any of those things, why would you force your way into my group.

    It's the GIRL Scouts. This boy's Birth Certificate says "Male". I say get him into a group that helps potential transgendered kids adapt and cope.

    The girls scouts are an inclusive organization so the ones who are complaining (like the girl calling for a cookie boycott) are actually the ones who are trying to change the club to fit what they believe.

    Not to mention this kid probably wouldn't be very welcomed in the boy scouts. In our house right now, we are trying to decide where we are going to go as far as scouting is concerned. I personally hate that they are allowed to go into the public schools and then reject some boys and keep other boys from roles of leadership.
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,788 Member

    The girls scouts are an inclusive organization so the ones who are complaining (like the girl calling for a cookie boycott) are actually the ones who are trying to change the club to fit what they believe.

    Not to mention this kid probably wouldn't be very welcomed in the boy scouts. In our house right now, we are trying to decide where we are going to go as far as scouting is concerned. I personally hate that they are allowed to go into the public schools and then reject some boys and keep other boys from roles of leadership.

    I don't care for how the scouting organization is defined or operated. Had any of my girls wanted to join scouting, I would have let them. I probably would have become involved, but I would have been one of those parent's that didn't become part of the "inner circle".

    As I've said before, I don't like Gangs of any kind. Once a group of people puts the group above the individual, I am against it. That goes for scouting, Crips, 1 percenters, the Catholic Church, Christianity, Congress, whatever.

    If you come to my house, you will be treated with respect, until you prove you don't deserve it, then you are unwelcome. If I come to your house, I will treat you, your home and your friends with respect.
  • mikajoanow
    mikajoanow Posts: 584 Member

    The girls scouts are an inclusive organization so the ones who are complaining (like the girl calling for a cookie boycott) are actually the ones who are trying to change the club to fit what they believe.

    Not to mention this kid probably wouldn't be very welcomed in the boy scouts. In our house right now, we are trying to decide where we are going to go as far as scouting is concerned. I personally hate that they are allowed to go into the public schools and then reject some boys and keep other boys from roles of leadership.

    I don't care for how the scouting organization is defined or operated. Had any of my girls wanted to join scouting, I would have let them. I probably would have become involved, but I would have been one of those parent's that didn't become part of the "inner circle".

    As I've said before, I don't like Gangs of any kind. Once a group of people puts the group above the individual, I am against it. That goes for scouting, Crips, 1 percenters, the Catholic Church, Christianity, Congress, whatever.

    If you come to my house, you will be treated with respect, until you prove you don't deserve it, then you are unwelcome. If I come to your house, I will treat you, your home and your friends with respect.

    Well then I am coming to your house as soon as the snow melts ;) :P
  • mommared53
    mommared53 Posts: 9,543 Member
    Roaddog, here is a link to an article and video of the 7 year old child. We're not talking post-operative transgendered; I don't believe any doctor would perform the operation until maturity.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/bobby-montoya-girl-scouts_n_1033308.html

    Thanks for the info. In this instance, this child should not be allowed into the Girl Scouts.

    Why? I'd love to know your reasons. To me, the child is pre-pubertal, so there's no 'risk' in having a biologically male child in a group with females (even if there were, male and female children mix daily at school without anyone getting too worried about it). If the child self-identifies as female, and wishes to participate in an activity aimed at the group they identify with, then where's the harm?

    I'm not sure there is any harm done. At 7 yrs old, though, I question who's agenda this is. This child may go through many changes over before puberty. He may be heterosexual, homosexual, asexual, or even may go through with the transgender operations, but that is going to be quite a ways off. My main argument is it's the "Girl" Scouts. He is a boy at this moment.

    But that is not my main reason. My main objection is why does everyone else have to make changes to accomodate one person? There is always that one person that wants to make a statement my infiltrating some previously restricted club or organization. Sometimes a group of people that share unique characteristics want to get together, without it becoming some kind of Civil rights movement.

    There are men only clubs, women only, adults only, kids only. What's wrong with that? Some gal recently tried joining a men's only country club and, when she was denied, threw a fit, took legal action. I'm pretty sure she won, because otherwise we would be stepping all over her civil rights with such gender bias. Is it right? What was her point? Forcing herself into a group that doesn't want her? I can't join the local Women's only health club. Am I being discriminated against. Hey! I would like to take a steam bath with a group of naked Mom's. Maybe I should contact a lawyer.

    I'm a biker. I ride with bikers. I don't want you following along in your VW. Does that make me a d*ck?

    I smoke cigars. I have a group of guys that come over regularly. (most of them ride over on a motorcycle). We smoke cigars, drink bourbon, talk about riding and motorcycles and hot girls in leather. If you aren't interested in any of those things, why would you force your way into my group.

    It's the GIRL Scouts. This boy's Birth Certificate says "Male". I say get him into a group that helps potential transgendered kids adapt and cope.

    I'm giving you a standing ovation. I'm not good at putting things into words but you did an excellent job of saying what I would have said.
  • fbmandy55
    fbmandy55 Posts: 5,263 Member
    Roaddog, here is a link to an article and video of the 7 year old child. We're not talking post-operative transgendered; I don't believe any doctor would perform the operation until maturity.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/bobby-montoya-girl-scouts_n_1033308.html

    Thanks for the info. In this instance, this child should not be allowed into the Girl Scouts.

    Why? I'd love to know your reasons. To me, the child is pre-pubertal, so there's no 'risk' in having a biologically male child in a group with females (even if there were, male and female children mix daily at school without anyone getting too worried about it). If the child self-identifies as female, and wishes to participate in an activity aimed at the group they identify with, then where's the harm?

    But that is not my main reason. My main objection is why does everyone else have to make changes to accomodate one person? There is always that one person that wants to make a statement my infiltrating some previously restricted club or organization. Sometimes a group of people that share unique characteristics want to get together, without it becoming some kind of Civil rights movement.

    I agree with this. No one can suck it up and deal with life anymore. Everyone has to be catered to, people always have excuses as to why they are wronged. Life sucks sometimes, you move on.

    My son isn't going to be able to start school with his friends because of the birthday cut-off. I'm going to sue the school and demand they let him in and stop discriminating against him because of the month he was born. :noway:
  • VeganInTraining
    VeganInTraining Posts: 1,319 Member



    But that is not my main reason. My main objection is why does everyone else have to make changes to accomodate one person? There is always that one person that wants to make a statement my infiltrating some previously restricted club or organization. Sometimes a group of people that share unique characteristics want to get together, without it becoming some kind of Civil rights movement.

    There are men only clubs, women only, adults only, kids only. What's wrong with that? Some gal recently tried joining a men's only country club and, when she was denied, threw a fit, took legal action. I'm pretty sure she won, because otherwise we would be stepping all over her civil rights with such gender bias. Is it right? What was her point? Forcing herself into a group that doesn't want her? I can't join the local Women's only health club. Am I being discriminated against. Hey! I would like to take a steam bath with a group of naked Mom's. Maybe I should contact a lawyer.

    I'm a biker. I ride with bikers. I don't want you following along in your VW. Does that make me a d*ck?

    I smoke cigars. I have a group of guys that come over regularly. (most of them ride over on a motorcycle). We smoke cigars, drink bourbon, talk about riding and motorcycles and hot girls in leather. If you aren't interested in any of those things, why would you force your way into my group.

    It's the GIRL Scouts. This boy's Birth Certificate says "Male". I say get him into a group that helps potential transgendered kids adapt and cope.

    I get what you are saying and I agree....to an extent. I am OK with exclusive clubs and if the Girl Scouts Troop were to have said he is a "male" he is not allowed then i would be OK with that too. But, I don't think that just based off of a Birth Certificate he should be utterly excluded. It was that individual troop's choice to let her in and that's OK. If you're group of bikers wants to exclude my Subaru then that is fine, but what's the harm in another group deciding that my car is OK. It should be up to the troop and more specifically it should be up to the girls in the troop on the leaders. If the girls vote him out then fine, if they vote him in then that's cool too.
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,788 Member
    My son isn't going to be able to start school with his friends because of the birthday cut-off. I'm going to sue the school and demand they let him in and stop discriminating against him because of the month he was born. :noway:

    My daughter wasn't able to start either because of the cutoff. I knew she was ready, but they made it so difficult and expensive to get her evaluated that I said to hell with it and she started the next year.

    The payoff came when she was in third grade. School said she was too advanced and was getting bored. Skipped the 4th grade. Wanted to say "i told u so", but I didn't.

    In fact, I wish she hadn't skipped 4th. She would still be a senior and I would have got one more year with her at home.
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,788 Member
    I get what you are saying and I agree....to an extent. I am OK with exclusive clubs and if the Girl Scouts Troop were to have said he is a "male" he is not allowed then i would be OK with that too. But, I don't think that just based off of a Birth Certificate he should be utterly excluded. It was that individual troop's choice to let her in and that's OK. If you're group of bikers wants to exclude my Subaru then that is fine, but what's the harm in another group deciding that my car is OK. It should be up to the troop and more specifically it should be up to the girls in the troop on the leaders. If the girls vote him out then fine, if they vote him in then that's cool too.

    I would never turn your Subaru away, but I would give you the option to jump on the back of my bike and hang on.
  • MassiveDelta
    MassiveDelta Posts: 3,271 Member
    This isn't weather the the little boy should be in girls scouts its weather the parents are making the error by forcing the organization to allow him. Most importantly I dont care how "fair" it maybe be to be all inclusive. subjecting that little boy to a troop where every other little girl is going to be like "hey whats that little boy doing here" That is going to be very traumatic. I dont care what you all say if you think that wont or didn't happen you have forgotten what grade school was like.

    Little boys have cooties. Little boys who want to be little girls WHOA! Big cooties! I read through some stuff on transgender and it explains how even a child as young as 4 knows what they are supposed to be . I can assure you even a 7 year old girls also knows that little boy needs to be wearing a cub scout uniform.

    As for why their aren't one sole group called scouts. For starters Boys scouts starts at age 11-12 so they are older. The cub scout program is more suitable and I'm not sure you would find a lot of little boys enjoying craft time with the girls scouts. Boys and girls are different let them be different stop trying to make every one the same and stop trying to force them to accept things that are not natural for them. Little boys dont want to do girl things and vise versa.

    Flame away

    Ridiculous! You think it's "natural" for girls to do "crafts" and for boys NOT to? Neither are true. The only reason boys like to do "boy" things is because they are conditioned to. From the moment they are born, gender roles are forced upon them. It's a product of society and nothing more.

    No in fact not all girls like to do crafts as the one poster at the top of this page suggested she always wanted to do what the boys wanted. MY 11 year old daughter is very much what 20 years ago would have been referred to as a Tomboy. [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tomboy]

    Is she transgender absolutely not. She just likes bugs and dirt and playing sports and climbing trees. Not overly concerned with her hair and how it looks.

    The reason the Boy Scouts were started was to bring young boys together and teach about patriotism, values, morals and outdoor skills while bring them together socially. Learning many skills and leadership among your peers. It promotes a since of self worth among your peers and a gives a young man some goals to work towards.

    So to address what seems to be your blatant opposing attitude about forced gender roles...When would you start teaching a man how a man is supposed to act? When do you teach him to be strong and do whats right no matter what? when do you teach him that despite all other circumstances he is to protect and provide for his family at all costs? When do you teach a young girl about nurturing? When do you teach a young girl about how to respect her husband unconditionally? When do you teach a young man to love his wife in the same way? Im not saying that Scouts provides opportunities for all those things nor is it there responsibility but there are important gender roles in society regardless of weather you agree with them. Men and women are different and its for good reason.
  • MassiveDelta
    MassiveDelta Posts: 3,271 Member
    From what I gather online, the child self-identifies as female, though the physical biology is male. I would certainly hope no reputable surgeon would conduct a surgical sex-change operation on a young child, nor that any parent would permit that. Gender-determination surgery on a child that displays hermaphroditic charcteristics is something very different.

    I can't find anything to say whether or not the cellular or hormonal biology has been explored, but does that really matter?

    If this child is truly transgender then why restrict a doctor from preforming the surgery? Or is there some doubt that a child really can identify as a a different sex at such a young age. In which case all the more reason the kid needs to be around other young boys.
  • MassiveDelta
    MassiveDelta Posts: 3,271 Member
    Roaddog, here is a link to an article and video of the 7 year old child. We're not talking post-operative transgendered; I don't believe any doctor would perform the operation until maturity.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/bobby-montoya-girl-scouts_n_1033308.html

    Thanks for the info. In this instance, this child should not be allowed into the Girl Scouts.

    Why? I'd love to know your reasons. To me, the child is pre-pubertal, so there's no 'risk' in having a biologically male child in a group with females (even if there were, male and female children mix daily at school without anyone getting too worried about it). If the child self-identifies as female, and wishes to participate in an activity aimed at the group they identify with, then where's the harm?

    I'm not sure there is any harm done. At 7 yrs old, though, I question who's agenda this is. This child may go through many changes over before puberty. He may be heterosexual, homosexual, asexual, or even may go through with the transgender operations, but that is going to be quite a ways off. My main argument is it's the "Girl" Scouts. He is a boy at this moment.

    But that is not my main reason. My main objection is why does everyone else have to make changes to accomodate one person? There is always that one person that wants to make a statement my infiltrating some previously restricted club or organization. Sometimes a group of people that share unique characteristics want to get together, without it becoming some kind of Civil rights movement.

    There are men only clubs, women only, adults only, kids only. What's wrong with that? Some gal recently tried joining a men's only country club and, when she was denied, threw a fit, took legal action. I'm pretty sure she won, because otherwise we would be stepping all over her civil rights with such gender bias. Is it right? What was her point? Forcing herself into a group that doesn't want her? I can't join the local Women's only health club. Am I being discriminated against. Hey! I would like to take a steam bath with a group of naked Mom's. Maybe I should contact a lawyer.

    I'm a biker. I ride with bikers. I don't want you following along in your VW. Does that make me a d*ck?

    I smoke cigars. I have a group of guys that come over regularly. (most of them ride over on a motorcycle). We smoke cigars, drink bourbon, talk about riding and motorcycles and hot girls in leather. If you aren't interested in any of those things, why would you force your way into my group.

    It's the GIRL Scouts. This boy's Birth Certificate says "Male". I say get him into a group that helps potential transgendered kids adapt and cope.

    The girls scouts are an inclusive organization so the ones who are complaining (like the girl calling for a cookie boycott) are actually the ones who are trying to change the club to fit what they believe.

    Not to mention this kid probably wouldn't be very welcomed in the boy scouts. In our house right now, we are trying to decide where we are going to go as far as scouting is concerned. I personally hate that they are allowed to go into the public schools and then reject some boys and keep other boys from roles of leadership.

    So inclusive their entire organization revolves around people with vaginas The name girls scouts even implies you need to be a girl. Im not sure how this was missed. Actually the girl complaining is trying to keep what was already in place. Girl scouts go up to age 14-16 I cant wait till a smart 16 year old guy says hey I can hang out with these girls for a couple hours a week.

    "Reject some boys and keep other boys from roles of leadership" not sure what your referring to but when I was in scouts you earned your rank yourself based on how hard you worked and leadership from your peers based on criteria you had met within your troop. In very large troops they should be split into smaller patrols allowing several young boys to a an opportunity for a leadership roles.
  • MassiveDelta
    MassiveDelta Posts: 3,271 Member



    But that is not my main reason. My main objection is why does everyone else have to make changes to accomodate one person? There is always that one person that wants to make a statement my infiltrating some previously restricted club or organization. Sometimes a group of people that share unique characteristics want to get together, without it becoming some kind of Civil rights movement.

    There are men only clubs, women only, adults only, kids only. What's wrong with that? Some gal recently tried joining a men's only country club and, when she was denied, threw a fit, took legal action. I'm pretty sure she won, because otherwise we would be stepping all over her civil rights with such gender bias. Is it right? What was her point? Forcing herself into a group that doesn't want her? I can't join the local Women's only health club. Am I being discriminated against. Hey! I would like to take a steam bath with a group of naked Mom's. Maybe I should contact a lawyer.

    I'm a biker. I ride with bikers. I don't want you following along in your VW. Does that make me a d*ck?

    I smoke cigars. I have a group of guys that come over regularly. (most of them ride over on a motorcycle). We smoke cigars, drink bourbon, talk about riding and motorcycles and hot girls in leather. If you aren't interested in any of those things, why would you force your way into my group.

    It's the GIRL Scouts. This boy's Birth Certificate says "Male". I say get him into a group that helps potential transgendered kids adapt and cope.

    I get what you are saying and I agree....to an extent. I am OK with exclusive clubs and if the Girl Scouts Troop were to have said he is a "male" he is not allowed then i would be OK with that too. But, I don't think that just based off of a Birth Certificate he should be utterly excluded. It was that individual troop's choice to let her in and that's OK. If you're group of bikers wants to exclude my Subaru then that is fine, but what's the harm in another group deciding that my car is OK. It should be up to the troop and more specifically it should be up to the girls in the troop on the leaders. If the girls vote him out then fine, if they vote him in then that's cool too.

    First you called "him" "her" He is a him. So then a gay man should be using a the womans locker room at your gym. He shouldn't be excluded based on his birth certificate. Would you women feel uncomfortable about seeing a man walking around your locker room with his sausage dangling? I mean the management knows he is gay and since his orientation is toward men should he be in the same locker room as his sexual preference? Im sure you ladies would embrace that.

    The reason one group shouldn't is because its governed as a whole and if one affiliated group allows something then they all must. that one group has now opened up the entire organization to allowing males regardless of their gender orientation into "GIRL" scouts.
  • MassiveDelta
    MassiveDelta Posts: 3,271 Member
    I get what you are saying and I agree....to an extent. I am OK with exclusive clubs and if the Girl Scouts Troop were to have said he is a "male" he is not allowed then i would be OK with that too. But, I don't think that just based off of a Birth Certificate he should be utterly excluded. It was that individual troop's choice to let her in and that's OK. If you're group of bikers wants to exclude my Subaru then that is fine, but what's the harm in another group deciding that my car is OK. It should be up to the troop and more specifically it should be up to the girls in the troop on the leaders. If the girls vote him out then fine, if they vote him in then that's cool too.

    I would never turn your Subaru away, but I would give you the option to jump on the back of my bike and hang on.
    What about a kawasaki ninja does your group embrace crotch rockets or only HD? :)
  • VeganInTraining
    VeganInTraining Posts: 1,319 Member
    I get what you are saying and I agree....to an extent. I am OK with exclusive clubs and if the Girl Scouts Troop were to have said he is a "male" he is not allowed then i would be OK with that too. But, I don't think that just based off of a Birth Certificate he should be utterly excluded. It was that individual troop's choice to let her in and that's OK. If you're group of bikers wants to exclude my Subaru then that is fine, but what's the harm in another group deciding that my car is OK. It should be up to the troop and more specifically it should be up to the girls in the troop on the leaders. If the girls vote him out then fine, if they vote him in then that's cool too.

    I would never turn your Subaru away, but I would give you the option to jump on the back of my bike and hang on.
    Deal! Though one of these days I really gotta get a bike of my own. I'm tired of riding b****
  • VeganInTraining
    VeganInTraining Posts: 1,319 Member

    First you called "him" "her" He is a him. So then a gay man should be using a the womans locker room at your gym. He shouldn't be excluded based on his birth certificate. Would you women feel uncomfortable about seeing a man walking around your locker room with his sausage dangling? I mean the management knows he is gay and since his orientation is toward men should he be in the same locker room as his sexual preference? Im sure you ladies would embrace that.

    The reason one group shouldn't is because its governed as a whole and if one affiliated group allows something then they all must. that one group has now opened up the entire organization to allowing males regardless of their gender orientation into "GIRL" scouts.

    There is a difference between gay and transgender. If a guy has gone through the surgery to become a woman then she has the anatomy of a woman and should be allowed in the female locker room. I worked at a coffee shop where the bathroom was "butch" and "nellies" which ever you identified with that is which one you used.

    Also if it is governed as a whole, the whole can choose to leave things up to each individual troop. All of the armed forces are a "whole" but they are free to have their own tattoo, hair, etc. policy
  • mikajoanow
    mikajoanow Posts: 584 Member
    Roaddog, here is a link to an article and video of the 7 year old child. We're not talking post-operative transgendered; I don't believe any doctor would perform the operation until maturity.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/bobby-montoya-girl-scouts_n_1033308.html

    Thanks for the info. In this instance, this child should not be allowed into the Girl Scouts.

    Why? I'd love to know your reasons. To me, the child is pre-pubertal, so there's no 'risk' in having a biologically male child in a group with females (even if there were, male and female children mix daily at school without anyone getting too worried about it). If the child self-identifies as female, and wishes to participate in an activity aimed at the group they identify with, then where's the harm?

    I'm not sure there is any harm done. At 7 yrs old, though, I question who's agenda this is. This child may go through many changes over before puberty. He may be heterosexual, homosexual, asexual, or even may go through with the transgender operations, but that is going to be quite a ways off. My main argument is it's the "Girl" Scouts. He is a boy at this moment.

    But that is not my main reason. My main objection is why does everyone else have to make changes to accomodate one person? There is always that one person that wants to make a statement my infiltrating some previously restricted club or organization. Sometimes a group of people that share unique characteristics want to get together, without it becoming some kind of Civil rights movement.

    There are men only clubs, women only, adults only, kids only. What's wrong with that? Some gal recently tried joining a men's only country club and, when she was denied, threw a fit, took legal action. I'm pretty sure she won, because otherwise we would be stepping all over her civil rights with such gender bias. Is it right? What was her point? Forcing herself into a group that doesn't want her? I can't join the local Women's only health club. Am I being discriminated against. Hey! I would like to take a steam bath with a group of naked Mom's. Maybe I should contact a lawyer.

    I'm a biker. I ride with bikers. I don't want you following along in your VW. Does that make me a d*ck?

    I smoke cigars. I have a group of guys that come over regularly. (most of them ride over on a motorcycle). We smoke cigars, drink bourbon, talk about riding and motorcycles and hot girls in leather. If you aren't interested in any of those things, why would you force your way into my group.

    It's the GIRL Scouts. This boy's Birth Certificate says "Male". I say get him into a group that helps potential transgendered kids adapt and cope.

    The girls scouts are an inclusive organization so the ones who are complaining (like the girl calling for a cookie boycott) are actually the ones who are trying to change the club to fit what they believe.

    Not to mention this kid probably wouldn't be very welcomed in the boy scouts. In our house right now, we are trying to decide where we are going to go as far as scouting is concerned. I personally hate that they are allowed to go into the public schools and then reject some boys and keep other boys from roles of leadership.

    So inclusive their entire organization revolves around people with vaginas The name girls scouts even implies you need to be a girl. Im not sure how this was missed. Actually the girl complaining is trying to keep what was already in place. Girl scouts go up to age 14-16 I cant wait till a smart 16 year old guy says hey I can hang out with these girls for a couple hours a week.

    "Reject some boys and keep other boys from roles of leadership" not sure what your referring to but when I was in scouts you earned your rank yourself based on how hard you worked and leadership from your peers based on criteria you had met within your troop. In very large troops they should be split into smaller patrols allowing several young boys to a an opportunity for a leadership roles.

    There are already equal clubs for boys. They are inclusive to girls of a specific age, and they believe if a boy who truly identifies as a girl wants to be a girl scout that is their right.

    Boy Scouts are not inclusive to all boys. Gay Scouts will never be allowed positions of leadership. Atheist and agnostic children, need not apply as they are not allowed to be scouts at all. Girl Scouts include any religion including those with no theistic views, they also encourage all girls including lesbians (and obviously transgender girls.)
  • mikajoanow
    mikajoanow Posts: 584 Member
    Roaddog, here is a link to an article and video of the 7 year old child. We're not talking post-operative transgendered; I don't believe any doctor would perform the operation until maturity.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/bobby-montoya-girl-scouts_n_1033308.html

    Thanks for the info. In this instance, this child should not be allowed into the Girl Scouts.

    Why? I'd love to know your reasons. To me, the child is pre-pubertal, so there's no 'risk' in having a biologically male child in a group with females (even if there were, male and female children mix daily at school without anyone getting too worried about it). If the child self-identifies as female, and wishes to participate in an activity aimed at the group they identify with, then where's the harm?

    But that is not my main reason. My main objection is why does everyone else have to make changes to accomodate one person? There is always that one person that wants to make a statement my infiltrating some previously restricted club or organization. Sometimes a group of people that share unique characteristics want to get together, without it becoming some kind of Civil rights movement.

    I agree with this. No one can suck it up and deal with life anymore. Everyone has to be catered to, people always have excuses as to why they are wronged. Life sucks sometimes, you move on.

    My son isn't going to be able to start school with his friends because of the birthday cut-off. I'm going to sue the school and demand they let him in and stop discriminating against him because of the month he was born. :noway:

    I think the point that is being missed is that no one if forcing this on the Girl Scouts of America. They want to do this, just like boy scouts are allowed to discriminate, they are allowed to accept transgendered kids. And the girls who don't like it should suck it up or form a new type of girl scouts just like the many people who have been rejected by the Boy Scouts of America have had to do.
  • futiledevices
    futiledevices Posts: 309 Member
    Some of you guys are so ignorant, it honestly disturbs me. I feel like I should stop coming to this group. It's upsetting to see the awful comments people make sometimes.
This discussion has been closed.

Categories