Girl Scout cookie ban
Replies
-
definitely more articulate than I about this. Thank you.What religion says that? Not Catholicism. The myth of Catholicism says that, but if you actually read up on the teachings as found in the Catechism you will not find it. As I always say, if you want to know the teachings of a religion look at what their religious documents state, not what someone you know who is of that belief states. Individuals, afterall, don't always get the story straight.
What religion says "I am the way and the truth and the light"? Or "Thou shalt have no other gods before me?"
Why is it some of you act like I'm making these things up out of thin air? Are you ashamed of your beliefs?
Or maybe I've been completely mistaken all these years. Apparently heaven has a very open door policy I was made unaware of in my Catholic upbringing... it's almost like they were teaching me the exact opposite...
The scripture your referring to is in Every religion that uses the New testament . Additionally Jewish religions who use the Torah or "old testament" would recognize All three of these statements immediately by the Jewish mind as claims to deity from Old Testament references. "I am the way, the truth, and the life: No one comes to the Father except through me."John 14:6
On top of that Much of the Koran shares many similar things with the old testament
"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)
I would however disagree. Christianity is not exclusive. Jesus Christ offers that gift to every person. But just like on Christmas morning; there is a gift under the tree for you, if you dont take that gift and open it and accept it as yours. Well then it never really belongs to you. His hand is open,holding it out, all you have to do is grab hold and accept it. No exclusions.
The door is there you just have to walk through it. There is no sign on the outside saying who is allowed. But you do have to recognize there is a door there reach out and turn that knob and walk through the door.
That sounds a little childish. "Hey Im not allowed in that room because I wont open the door and walk in. Thats not fair"0 -
The scripture your referring to is Every religion that uses the New testament believes that. Additionally Jewish religions who use the Torah or "old testament" would recognize All three of these statements immediately by the Jewish mind as claims to deity from Old Testament references. "I am the way, the truth, and the life: No one comes to the Father except through me."John 14:6
On top of that Much of the Koran shares many similar things with the old testament
"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)
I would however disagree. Christianity is not exclusive. Jesus Christ offers that gift to every person. But just like on Christmas morning; there is a gift under the tree for you, if you dont take that gift and open it and accept it as yours. Well then it never really belongs to you. His hand is open,holding it out, all you have to do is grab hold and accept it. No exclusions.
The door is there you just have to walk through it. There is no sign on the outside saying who is allowed. But you do have to recognize there is a door there reach out and turn that knob and walk through the door.
That sounds a little childish. "Hey Im not allowed in that room because I wont open the door and walk in. Thats not fair"
You're saying that Christianity is not exclusive so long as you're a Christian and you're calling me childish?
Maybe I haven't expressed myself properly. I do that. My original point was Regmama complaining that people who are for inclusion and tolerance often don't have such high ideals when it comes down to religion. I actually think she's very much correct. I like to think of myself as a tolerant person who is accepting of others. Except for religion. And the reason I have no problem not being inclusive to those with religious beliefs is because those religious beliefs are not at all inclusive to begin with.
We can see that here because I keep reading that "Christianity is plenty inclusive! If you're a Christian."
This derail is my own fault and you'll not hear any complaints from me if you all choose to move along. I know when I'm tilting at windmills.0 -
The scripture your referring to is Every religion that uses the New testament believes that. Additionally Jewish religions who use the Torah or "old testament" would recognize All three of these statements immediately by the Jewish mind as claims to deity from Old Testament references. "I am the way, the truth, and the life: No one comes to the Father except through me."John 14:6
On top of that Much of the Koran shares many similar things with the old testament
"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)
I would however disagree. Christianity is not exclusive. Jesus Christ offers that gift to every person. But just like on Christmas morning; there is a gift under the tree for you, if you dont take that gift and open it and accept it as yours. Well then it never really belongs to you. His hand is open,holding it out, all you have to do is grab hold and accept it. No exclusions.
The door is there you just have to walk through it. There is no sign on the outside saying who is allowed. But you do have to recognize there is a door there reach out and turn that knob and walk through the door.
That sounds a little childish. "Hey Im not allowed in that room because I wont open the door and walk in. Thats not fair"
You're saying that Christianity is not exclusive so long as you're a Christian and you're calling me childish?
Maybe I haven't expressed myself properly. I do that. My original point was Regmama complaining that people who are for inclusion and tolerance often don't have such high ideals when it comes down to religion. I actually think she's very much correct. I like to think of myself as a tolerant person who is accepting of others. Except for religion. And the reason I have no problem not being inclusive to those with religious beliefs is because those religious beliefs are not at all inclusive to begin with.
We can see that here because I keep reading that "Christianity is plenty inclusive! If you're a Christian."
This derail is my own fault and you'll not hear any complaints from me if you all choose to move along. I know when I'm tilting at windmills.
I guess you could call me a christian but I really dont like that because I think religion is bad. Im a christ follower. I believe the teachings of Jesus Christ and I try to live my life in emulation of those teachings. I think religion as a whole has done a disservice to what jesus christ taught. What I'm saying is if you believe then yay. But if you dont believe then why would you want to go to a place that you done believe in? I'm confused.
OR you want to believe in Heaven and Hell but not that God created them? Or no Hell and everyone goes to Heaven? Or what is it you believe?
Like the atheists that fight against a deity that doesn't exist. Im confused0 -
Roaddog, here is a link to an article and video of the 7 year old child. We're not talking post-operative transgendered; I don't believe any doctor would perform the operation until maturity.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/bobby-montoya-girl-scouts_n_1033308.html
Thanks for the info. In this instance, this child should not be allowed into the Girl Scouts.
Why? I'd love to know your reasons. To me, the child is pre-pubertal, so there's no 'risk' in having a biologically male child in a group with females (even if there were, male and female children mix daily at school without anyone getting too worried about it). If the child self-identifies as female, and wishes to participate in an activity aimed at the group they identify with, then where's the harm?
I'm not sure there is any harm done. At 7 yrs old, though, I question who's agenda this is. This child may go through many changes over before puberty. He may be heterosexual, homosexual, asexual, or even may go through with the transgender operations, but that is going to be quite a ways off. My main argument is it's the "Girl" Scouts. He is a boy at this moment.
But that is not my main reason. My main objection is why does everyone else have to make changes to accomodate one person? There is always that one person that wants to make a statement my infiltrating some previously restricted club or organization. Sometimes a group of people that share unique characteristics want to get together, without it becoming some kind of Civil rights movement.
There are men only clubs, women only, adults only, kids only. What's wrong with that? Some gal recently tried joining a men's only country club and, when she was denied, threw a fit, took legal action. I'm pretty sure she won, because otherwise we would be stepping all over her civil rights with such gender bias. Is it right? What was her point? Forcing herself into a group that doesn't want her? I can't join the local Women's only health club. Am I being discriminated against. Hey! I would like to take a steam bath with a group of naked Mom's. Maybe I should contact a lawyer.
I'm a biker. I ride with bikers. I don't want you following along in your VW. Does that make me a d*ck?
I smoke cigars. I have a group of guys that come over regularly. (most of them ride over on a motorcycle). We smoke cigars, drink bourbon, talk about riding and motorcycles and hot girls in leather. If you aren't interested in any of those things, why would you force your way into my group.
It's the GIRL Scouts. This boy's Birth Certificate says "Male". I say get him into a group that helps potential transgendered kids adapt and cope.
The girls scouts are an inclusive organization so the ones who are complaining (like the girl calling for a cookie boycott) are actually the ones who are trying to change the club to fit what they believe.
Not to mention this kid probably wouldn't be very welcomed in the boy scouts. In our house right now, we are trying to decide where we are going to go as far as scouting is concerned. I personally hate that they are allowed to go into the public schools and then reject some boys and keep other boys from roles of leadership.
So inclusive their entire organization revolves around people with vaginas The name girls scouts even implies you need to be a girl. Im not sure how this was missed. Actually the girl complaining is trying to keep what was already in place. Girl scouts go up to age 14-16 I cant wait till a smart 16 year old guy says hey I can hang out with these girls for a couple hours a week.
"Reject some boys and keep other boys from roles of leadership" not sure what your referring to but when I was in scouts you earned your rank yourself based on how hard you worked and leadership from your peers based on criteria you had met within your troop. In very large troops they should be split into smaller patrols allowing several young boys to a an opportunity for a leadership roles.
There are already equal clubs for boys. They are inclusive to girls of a specific age, and they believe if a boy who truly identifies as a girl wants to be a girl scout that is their right.
Boy Scouts are not inclusive to all boys. Gay Scouts will never be allowed positions of leadership. Atheist and agnostic children, need not apply as they are not allowed to be scouts at all. Girl Scouts include any religion including those with no theistic views, they also encourage all girls including lesbians (and obviously transgender girls.)
Ohh I think you are referring to Scout leaders not boys who have leadership roles. You are correct if you are openly gay you cant be a scout leader. Its not because that person is gay. Its because of the inappropriateness of the relationship. Just as it is inappropriate for a Man to take a bunch of teen girls on a camping trip. you dont want to be in that situation as a leader or as a parent. Its just wrong. Its a matter of being above reproach so that you are never in a situation that can ever be questioned. Its smart why take a chance. Never expose yourself to an opportunity and you never have to worry about it. Also Most of the time Adult leadership aren't technically scouts. These are men I think they must be 21 or older and they dont have to previously been a scout they are volunteers. You are skewing this in a such a way that it makes it sound like a gay teen would be able to be a patrol leader which I dont think is accurate. The whole basis of boy scouts has a underling essence of a persons faith, values, and morals.
Thats the scout oath if an athiest is ok saying "...to God and my country..." which Im guessing he isnt since he believes in no god.On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.
They aren't keeping atheists out The atheists are making a choice.
Again, Gay boyscouts can not advance into scout leader positions. We can spin it anyway we like but at the end of the day, they will not be leaders. And before they were sued they used to kick kids out regularly that were gay. As recently as 2003 an Eagle Scout was kicked out for being gay, even though they said it was because he talked about it on TV. (Who knows how many gay scouts are kicked out in a similar way, to this day)
As far as the oath and atheists goes, this is the girl scout oath
On my honor, I will try:
To serve God and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.
You can change the word God to mean anything in the GS pledge if one does not believe in god. In the boy scouts a/a kids are just simply not at all accepted. Girl Scouts are inclusive, Boy scouts are not. There really isn't much debate in that. I am not debating if they are allowed to do it or if they are not allowed to discriminate, the fact is, they do. And I for one am glad that the girl scouts choose not to discriminate.0 -
I guess you could call me a christian but I really dont like that because I think religion is bad. Im a christ follower. I believe the teachings of Jesus Christ and I try to live my life in emulation of those teachings. I think religion as a whole has done a disservice to what jesus christ taught. What I'm saying is if you believe then yay. But if you dont believe then why would you want to go to a place that you done believe in? I'm confused.
OR you want to believe in Heaven and Hell but not that God created them? Or no Hell and everyone goes to Heaven? Or what is it you believe?
Like the atheists that fight against a deity that doesn't exist. Im confused
I'll explain myself but I think we should move on after. This derail is my bad.
I am one of those atheists who fights against a deity who doesn't exist, but more to the point I argue with the believers of this deity. I don't believe in the existence of heaven or hell. I'm not asking to be let in if it does exist. I get that it's a club with a door policy. What I'm saying is don't pretend it's open to all to seem more open minded and inclusive. That is simply not the case. It's open to all FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST (with a few added caveats depending). That's EXclusive. Because you're excluding those of different faiths. That's fine! You have that right as it's your heaven. Just stop pretending it's open to all. It's not. It's open to Christians. Own up to that.
But I really needn't say anymore. I'm an atheist. To me you all may as well be arguing about who Zeus favors more.0 -
Like the atheists that fight against a deity that doesn't exist. Im confused
They don't fight a diety they debate with people.0 -
I guess you could call me a christian but I really dont like that because I think religion is bad. Im a christ follower. I believe the teachings of Jesus Christ and I try to live my life in emulation of those teachings. I think religion as a whole has done a disservice to what jesus christ taught. What I'm saying is if you believe then yay. But if you dont believe then why would you want to go to a place that you done believe in? I'm confused.
OR you want to believe in Heaven and Hell but not that God created them? Or no Hell and everyone goes to Heaven? Or what is it you believe?
Like the atheists that fight against a deity that doesn't exist. Im confused
I'll explain myself but I think we should move on after. This derail is my bad.
I am one of those atheists who fights against a deity who doesn't exist, but more to the point I argue with the believers of this deity. I don't believe in the existence of heaven or hell. I'm not asking to be let in if it does exist. I get that it's a club with a door policy. What I'm saying is don't pretend it's open to all to seem more open minded and inclusive. That is simply not the case. It's open to all FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST (with a few added caveats depending). That's EXclusive. Because you're excluding those of different faiths. That's fine! You have that right as it's your heaven. Just stop pretending it's open to all. It's not. It's open to Christians. Own up to that.
But I really needn't say anymore. I'm an atheist. To me you all may as well be arguing about who Zeus favors more.
How do you fight against something that doesn't exist. You're giving them wayyyyy too much credit.0 -
How do you fight against something that doesn't exist. You're giving them wayyyyy too much credit.
That's what I was trying to say. I'm not "mad at god". I don't believe any gods exist. I'm mad at people who tell me we have to display the Ten Commandments in public buildings. I'm not fighting an imaginary deity (I could care less) but the very real threat of theocratic rule (care very much).0 -
lol okay. I guess that just took me back. ITAHow do you fight against something that doesn't exist. You're giving them wayyyyy too much credit.
That's what I was trying to say. I'm not "mad at god". I don't believe any gods exist. I'm mad at people who tell me we have to display the Ten Commandments in public buildings. I'm not fighting an imaginary deity (I could care less) but the very real threat of theocratic rule (care very much).0 -
I guess you could call me a christian but I really dont like that because I think religion is bad. Im a christ follower. I believe the teachings of Jesus Christ and I try to live my life in emulation of those teachings. I think religion as a whole has done a disservice to what jesus christ taught. What I'm saying is if you believe then yay. But if you dont believe then why would you want to go to a place that you done believe in? I'm confused.
OR you want to believe in Heaven and Hell but not that God created them? Or no Hell and everyone goes to Heaven? Or what is it you believe?
Like the atheists that fight against a deity that doesn't exist. Im confused
I'll explain myself but I think we should move on after. This derail is my bad.
I am one of those atheists who fights against a deity who doesn't exist, but more to the point I argue with the believers of this deity. I don't believe in the existence of heaven or hell. I'm not asking to be let in if it does exist. I get that it's a club with a door policy. What I'm saying is don't pretend it's open to all to seem more open minded and inclusive. That is simply not the case. It's open to all FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST (with a few added caveats depending). That's EXclusive. Because you're excluding those of different faiths. That's fine! You have that right as it's your heaven. Just stop pretending it's open to all. It's not. It's open to Christians. Own up to that.
But I really needn't say anymore. I'm an atheist. To me you all may as well be arguing about who Zeus favors more.
Well he obviously favors Persephone more she was inexplicably more beautiful.0 -
Well he obviously favors Persephone more she was inexplicably more beautiful.
:drinker:
You may now all return to your regularly scheduled argument about cookies that has yet to mention cookies.
Sweet, delicious cookies...0 -
I would really like a thin mint.0
-
That's a whole other debate...chocolate and mint, YUCK! (when put together, that is)I would really like a thin mint.0 -
Say wha? Why would you say such an intolerant thing!
That's a whole other debate...chocolate and mint, YUCK! (when put together, that is)I would really like a thin mint.0 -
I liken it to drinking orange juice after brushing your teeth. I get the same sick feeling in my stomach with both.
Say wha? Why would you say such an intolerant thing!
That's a whole other debate...chocolate and mint, YUCK! (when put together, that is)I would really like a thin mint.0 -
HA!
I'm more of a Samoa man myself... think I ate enough to resemble an actual Samoan..0 -
Trefoils. Best shortbread cookie ever.0
-
HA!
I'm more of a Samoa man myself... think I ate enough to resemble an actual Samoan..
This...0 -
HA!
I'm more of a Samoa man myself... think I ate enough to resemble an actual Samoan..
I will kill for Samoas:
http://bakingbites.com/2008/01/homemade-girl-scout-cookies-samoas/0 -
That's a whole other debate...chocolate and mint, YUCK! (when put together, that is)I would really like a thin mint.
I agree. I LOATHE mint and choclate together....EXCEPT with thin mints! It's the only combo of the two that I'm ok with. Mint Meltaways- I will vomit.0 -
I love mint and chocolate together, but chocolate and orange is an abomination!
Really sorry to re-derail for a moment, but I feel really strongly about this. BrettPGH, just for you...
What I'm saying is don't pretend it's open to all to seem more open minded and inclusive. That is simply not the case. It's open to all FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST (with a few added caveats depending). That's EXclusive. Because you're excluding those of different faiths. That's fine! You have that right as it's your heaven. Just stop pretending it's open to all. It's not. It's open to Christians. Own up to that.
But I really needn't say anymore. I'm an atheist. To me you all may as well be arguing about who Zeus favors more.
Christians are as varied a group as any other - there are multiple interpretations and views of the Bible and different varieties of theology. Certainly, there are some groups within the Christian community who believe in the exclusion of non-Christians (or often, even those Christians who don't believe exactly as they do). Equally, there are other groups who believe, inclusively, that heaven is open to all, regardless of belief (or lack of), because God (notice I am not saying 'Christ') is omnipotent and omniscient, and crucially, all-loving. These groups prefer to look for the similarities at the base of faiths, or of a faith-free life lived well, rather than to carp on the differences. I understand where you're coming from, having encountered this sort of exclusive belief in certain parts of the population, Christian or otherwise, but please don't tar us all with the same brush. As in any large group, there are myriad understandings and approaches.
As for Zeus, my understanding is that he was pretty profligate in his favours...
Right, back on track now. If only I could buy Girl Scout cookies in the UK!0 -
Pardon my jumping around and lack of quoting here but I'm sick and too tired to really care. :laugh:
1. Gay men aren't allowed to e leaders because of homophobes. It has nothing to do with them going camping with kids. Those who would molest a child would be pedophiles, not homosexuals. Most molesters of young boys are heterosexual men. (Pennsylvania football anyone??)
2. I've never, ever heard of a fundie Christian who said that an Atheist/Muslim/any other denomination could go to Heaven. Heaven is an exclusionary club made up solely (supposedly) of believers in Jesus. If Gandhi isn't in your version of Heaven then don't bother claiming to be inclusionary. You're not.
3. Tagalongs are obviously the best.
4. If you want GS cookies and are outside the US, check at any American military base. They probably have websites where you can find someone. http://www.bookoo.com/ is a cyber yard-sale site for military (sort of like craig's list). Find one in your area and ask about buying cookies. Anyone can join, they just center around military families.0 -
Sorry to hear you're sick - feel better soon! :flowerforyou:
Thanks for the link - I shall check that out. I became slightly addicted to Mint Thins whilst staying with my godmother in the US. Probably not good for my MFP stats, but oh, so good for my chocaholic soul! Don't think I had Tagalongs.
Re. point 2 - you're right, no 'fundamentalist' (which I always think is the wrong word - the fundamentals of Christianity, as far as I'm concerned, mostly centre around 'love thy neighbour as thyself' and 'love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind') Christian would espouse that view. Many other types of Christian see things very differently from the evangelical churches who tend to make the headlines. Ghandi et al would be most welcome in my understanding of heaven.
Re point one. Yes. Well said.0 -
mmmm Samoa's! I have a case....not a box but a CASE of thin mints under my desk at the moment. At the end of the season last year the girl scouts donated a couple palates of cookies (no Samoas though
) so there is no shortage of girl scout cookies in my life. 0 -
I could take or leave the thin mints, but the ones with the chocolate, caramel, and coconut...........YUM!0
-
I could take or leave the thin mints, but the ones with the chocolate, caramel, and coconut...........YUM!
That sounds like my personal brand of any addictive drug you care to name - maybe it's just as well I can't find them here!0 -
agreed on the last partI could take or leave the thin mints, but the ones with the chocolate, caramel, and coconut...........YUM!0 -
You know what rocks, Thin Mint Ice Cream. I had it not to long ago and I have to say it was pretty darn delicious.0
-
Now that does sound good. We have a very thin mint candy here called 'After Eight' - no biscuit, just mint fondant in dark chocolate, about 1.5mm thick. I wonder if I could add those to icecream to have a similar effect? Was it based on vanilla, chocolate or mint icecream?0
-
I love mint chocolate chip ice cream! Never had thin mint ice cream, though. Orpheus, is 'After Eight' similar to Pepperidge Farm mint milano cookie? If so..........those are soooo good!0
This discussion has been closed.