Football: Putting Bounties on players
Options
Replies
-
Football is my favorite sport. Rodney Harrison is my all time favorite player. He was called the "dirtiest" player.... please. Football is a tough physical sport. Plenty of players are hurt during "clean" play. The fact is, unless you're in the locker room with them, you have no idea what the coaches are telling them for motivation, and really, who cares? Aren't there bonuses in contracts for meeting certain criteria anyway? That's also a monetary incentive as well as the millions they get paid.They are paid to intentionally physically stop other players. Injuries are part of the game. They are always trying to intentionally hurt each other in some way to slow each outher down.Every team has a game plan to target and stop certain individuals. And what do you think goes on at the bottom of a pile on a loose ball? The players all understand what the game entails.They are in top physical amazing shape. Every game I watch I'm amazed that players bouce right back up from hits that would knock me out. Try doing the football speed run in place with up downs!
If this sort of thing bothers you, find another no contact sport like golf.
There is a tremendous difference between bonuses being paid out for legal play that advances your teams position against the opponent, and actively trying to maim someone. To put it to an extreme, it would be relatively easy to smuggle a blade on the field. I'm certain people don't think it would be in the sport's best interest to have players running around stabbing each other. Just because I don't want to see football degraded to a gang fight doesn't mean I don't have the stomach to watch it.
This^^^
It's a physical, rough sport - sure. That doesn't mean that intent to injure needs to be anywhere, in any sport. Injuries happen, yes, and THAT is what is part of the game. Intentionally hitting people with the intent to get them carted off the field and possibly end their career has no place in sports or life.0 -
Football is my favorite sport. Rodney Harrison is my all time favorite player. He was called the "dirtiest" player.... please. Football is a tough physical sport. Plenty of players are hurt during "clean" play. The fact is, unless you're in the locker room with them, you have no idea what the coaches are telling them for motivation, and really, who cares? Aren't there bonuses in contracts for meeting certain criteria anyway? That's also a monetary incentive as well as the millions they get paid.They are paid to intentionally physically stop other players. Injuries are part of the game. They are always trying to intentionally hurt each other in some way to slow each outher down.Every team has a game plan to target and stop certain individuals. And what do you think goes on at the bottom of a pile on a loose ball? The players all understand what the game entails.They are in top physical amazing shape. Every game I watch I'm amazed that players bouce right back up from hits that would knock me out. Try doing the football speed run in place with up downs!
If this sort of thing bothers you, find another no contact sport like golf.
There is a tremendous difference between bonuses being paid out for legal play that advances your teams position against the opponent, and actively trying to maim someone. To put it to an extreme, it would be relatively easy to smuggle a blade on the field. I'm certain people don't think it would be in the sport's best interest to have players running around stabbing each other. Just because I don't want to see football degraded to a gang fight doesn't mean I don't have the stomach to watch it.
Nobody's talking knives and weapons. I'm talking about playing football and letting them play the game. The game is physical and people get hurt and players are specifically going after other players all the time. Who the heck said anything about blades or that THAT was OK? Certainly I did not and to compare the two is ridiculous.0 -
Nobody's talking knives and weapons. I'm talking about playing football and letting them play the game. The game is physical and people get hurt and players are specifically going after other players all the time. Who the heck said anything about blades or that THAT was OK? Certainly I did not and to compare the two is ridiculous.
I agree that it is a ridiculous thought, and stated it was an extreme example before mentioning it. However, players can do things that are almost as dangerous without blades. In a pileup I could slide my hand under someone's facemask and gouge at their eyes. When standing up from a pile I could aim to jam my cleats on a players throat. When going for a tackle I could grab someone's facemask and force their entire body's momentum to jar the players neck directly. When going for the kicker I could aim to blow out his knee by tackling under the kick. I could work a plan with one my linebackers to hold my target stationary on a blitz so that he has a completely open shot against to do as much damage as possible. I could do that solo and take a late shot on the quarterback.
These things are against the rules for a reason. They can cause permanent and crippling harm to the players. When add financial incentive to injure opponents, the line on what is and isn't acceptable behavior on the field gets skewed. If your team is already losing but you'll make 5 grand taking out their QB, why not take the late hit penalty and try to put him down for good?
Noone is saying to take away the sports aggression, that's half of what makes it such a great thing to watch and play. I think it's very important that said aggression be channeled properly though, or the quality of the sport could suffer. "I want to hurt you so my team can win" is a very slight, but in my eyes very important, difference from "I want to hurt you so you get hurt".0 -
Ok so Football is my sport. I love the hard hitting bone crushing action. However I would not condone my team purposely trying to hurt another teams players.... However I have been known to scream at my T.V. "IF your gonna get a Facemask penatly you better bring my his helmet." This game is very physical and has been toned down more and more. They put Face gaurds on the helmets to stop player from bitting each other in the pile ups lol.0
-
Ok so Football is my sport. I love the hard hitting bone crushing action. However I would not condone my team purposely trying to hurt another teams players.... However I have been known to scream at my T.V. "IF your gonna get a Facemask penatly you better bring my his helmet." This game is very physical and has been toned down more and more. They put Face gaurds on the helmets to stop player from bitting each other in the pile ups lol.
I can get through a face guard in under 3 seconds if determined to. Not to bite, but there's a lot of nasty stuff you can do with hands if the guy can't defend his face.0 -
Football is my favorite sport. Rodney Harrison is my all time favorite player. He was called the "dirtiest" player.... please. Football is a tough physical sport. Plenty of players are hurt during "clean" play. The fact is, unless you're in the locker room with them, you have no idea what the coaches are telling them for motivation, and really, who cares? Aren't there bonuses in contracts for meeting certain criteria anyway? That's also a monetary incentive as well as the millions they get paid.They are paid to intentionally physically stop other players. Injuries are part of the game. They are always trying to intentionally hurt each other in some way to slow each outher down.Every team has a game plan to target and stop certain individuals. And what do you think goes on at the bottom of a pile on a loose ball? The players all understand what the game entails.They are in top physical amazing shape. Every game I watch I'm amazed that players bouce right back up from hits that would knock me out. Try doing the football speed run in place with up downs!
If this sort of thing bothers you, find another no contact sport like golf.
There is a tremendous difference between bonuses being paid out for legal play that advances your teams position against the opponent, and actively trying to maim someone. To put it to an extreme, it would be relatively easy to smuggle a blade on the field. I'm certain people don't think it would be in the sport's best interest to have players running around stabbing each other. Just because I don't want to see football degraded to a gang fight doesn't mean I don't have the stomach to watch it.
Nobody's talking knives and weapons. I'm talking about playing football and letting them play the game. The game is physical and people get hurt and players are specifically going after other players all the time. Who the heck said anything about blades or that THAT was OK? Certainly I did not and to compare the two is ridiculous.
I think you missed the point. I guess the question is intent. Yes, it's a rough sport and injuries will happen. But when guys are taking dirty shots with THE INTENT TO INJURE then that is not ok. I'm not sure how anyone can condone that. Just think of the other teams doing that to your team - you wouldn't be happy and would be the first person to yell about it. Keep the dirtiness out of it.0 -
Football is my favorite sport. Rodney Harrison is my all time favorite player. He was called the "dirtiest" player.... please. Football is a tough physical sport. Plenty of players are hurt during "clean" play. The fact is, unless you're in the locker room with them, you have no idea what the coaches are telling them for motivation, and really, who cares? Aren't there bonuses in contracts for meeting certain criteria anyway? That's also a monetary incentive as well as the millions they get paid.They are paid to intentionally physically stop other players. Injuries are part of the game. They are always trying to intentionally hurt each other in some way to slow each outher down.Every team has a game plan to target and stop certain individuals. And what do you think goes on at the bottom of a pile on a loose ball? The players all understand what the game entails.They are in top physical amazing shape. Every game I watch I'm amazed that players bouce right back up from hits that would knock me out. Try doing the football speed run in place with up downs!
If this sort of thing bothers you, find another no contact sport like golf.
There is a tremendous difference between bonuses being paid out for legal play that advances your teams position against the opponent, and actively trying to maim someone. To put it to an extreme, it would be relatively easy to smuggle a blade on the field. I'm certain people don't think it would be in the sport's best interest to have players running around stabbing each other. Just because I don't want to see football degraded to a gang fight doesn't mean I don't have the stomach to watch it.
Nobody's talking knives and weapons. I'm talking about playing football and letting them play the game. The game is physical and people get hurt and players are specifically going after other players all the time. Who the heck said anything about blades or that THAT was OK? Certainly I did not and to compare the two is ridiculous.
I think you missed the point. I guess the question is intent. Yes, it's a rough sport and injuries will happen. But when guys are taking dirty shots with THE INTENT TO INJURE then that is not ok. I'm not sure how anyone can condone that. Just think of the other teams doing that to your team - you wouldn't be happy and would be the first person to yell about it. Keep the dirtiness out of it.
Agree 100%. Football is the only sport I lvoe to watch. I love seeing the big hits but to intentionally hurt someone makes you a worse player in my opinion, and should cost you a lot of respect.0 -
Football is my favorite sport. Rodney Harrison is my all time favorite player. He was called the "dirtiest" player.... please. Football is a tough physical sport. Plenty of players are hurt during "clean" play. The fact is, unless you're in the locker room with them, you have no idea what the coaches are telling them for motivation, and really, who cares? Aren't there bonuses in contracts for meeting certain criteria anyway? That's also a monetary incentive as well as the millions they get paid.They are paid to intentionally physically stop other players. Injuries are part of the game. They are always trying to intentionally hurt each other in some way to slow each outher down.Every team has a game plan to target and stop certain individuals. And what do you think goes on at the bottom of a pile on a loose ball? The players all understand what the game entails.They are in top physical amazing shape. Every game I watch I'm amazed that players bouce right back up from hits that would knock me out. Try doing the football speed run in place with up downs!
If this sort of thing bothers you, find another no contact sport like golf.
There is a tremendous difference between bonuses being paid out for legal play that advances your teams position against the opponent, and actively trying to maim someone. To put it to an extreme, it would be relatively easy to smuggle a blade on the field. I'm certain people don't think it would be in the sport's best interest to have players running around stabbing each other. Just because I don't want to see football degraded to a gang fight doesn't mean I don't have the stomach to watch it.
Nobody's talking knives and weapons. I'm talking about playing football and letting them play the game. The game is physical and people get hurt and players are specifically going after other players all the time. Who the heck said anything about blades or that THAT was OK? Certainly I did not and to compare the two is ridiculous.
I think you missed the point. I guess the question is intent. Yes, it's a rough sport and injuries will happen. But when guys are taking dirty shots with THE INTENT TO INJURE then that is not ok. I'm not sure how anyone can condone that. Just think of the other teams doing that to your team - you wouldn't be happy and would be the first person to yell about it. Keep the dirtiness out of it.
Agree 100%. Football is the only sport I lvoe to watch. I love seeing the big hits but to intentionally hurt someone makes you a worse player in my opinion, and should cost you a lot of respect.
No, I didn't miss the point, I never said it was OK to intentionally say try to break someone's leg. I said: They are paid to intentionally physically stop other players. Injuries are part of the game. They are always trying to intentionally hurt each other in some way to slow each outher down. Every team has a game plan to target and stop certain individuals.
Hitting another player hard often knocks the wind out of them causing them to step out of play. It happens. No one is advocating breaking arms and legs - really, when did I say that? If a "bounty" is paid say if you sack the QB more than 3 times per game, I hardly see the harm in it. Everyone wants to sack the QB. I don't believe anyone is being paid to be little football hitmen out there. And I think players like Rodney were unfairly painted as "dirty" for playing the game just like everyone else - only maybe a little better.0 -
Football is my favorite sport. Rodney Harrison is my all time favorite player. He was called the "dirtiest" player.... please. Football is a tough physical sport. Plenty of players are hurt during "clean" play. The fact is, unless you're in the locker room with them, you have no idea what the coaches are telling them for motivation, and really, who cares? Aren't there bonuses in contracts for meeting certain criteria anyway? That's also a monetary incentive as well as the millions they get paid.They are paid to intentionally physically stop other players. Injuries are part of the game. They are always trying to intentionally hurt each other in some way to slow each outher down.Every team has a game plan to target and stop certain individuals. And what do you think goes on at the bottom of a pile on a loose ball? The players all understand what the game entails.They are in top physical amazing shape. Every game I watch I'm amazed that players bouce right back up from hits that would knock me out. Try doing the football speed run in place with up downs!
If this sort of thing bothers you, find another no contact sport like golf.
There is a tremendous difference between bonuses being paid out for legal play that advances your teams position against the opponent, and actively trying to maim someone. To put it to an extreme, it would be relatively easy to smuggle a blade on the field. I'm certain people don't think it would be in the sport's best interest to have players running around stabbing each other. Just because I don't want to see football degraded to a gang fight doesn't mean I don't have the stomach to watch it.
Nobody's talking knives and weapons. I'm talking about playing football and letting them play the game. The game is physical and people get hurt and players are specifically going after other players all the time. Who the heck said anything about blades or that THAT was OK? Certainly I did not and to compare the two is ridiculous.
I think you missed the point. I guess the question is intent. Yes, it's a rough sport and injuries will happen. But when guys are taking dirty shots with THE INTENT TO INJURE then that is not ok. I'm not sure how anyone can condone that. Just think of the other teams doing that to your team - you wouldn't be happy and would be the first person to yell about it. Keep the dirtiness out of it.
Agree 100%. Football is the only sport I lvoe to watch. I love seeing the big hits but to intentionally hurt someone makes you a worse player in my opinion, and should cost you a lot of respect.
No, I didn't miss the point, I never said it was OK to intentionally say try to break someone's leg. I said: They are paid to intentionally physically stop other players. Injuries are part of the game. They are always trying to intentionally hurt each other in some way to slow each outher down. Every team has a game plan to target and stop certain individuals.
Hitting another player hard often knocks the wind out of them causing them to step out of play. It happens. No one is advocating breaking arms and legs - really, when did I say that? If a "bounty" is paid say if you sack the QB more than 3 times per game, I hardly see the harm in it. Everyone wants to sack the QB. I don't believe anyone is being paid to be little football hitmen out there. And I think players like Rodney were unfairly painted as "dirty" for playing the game just like everyone else - only maybe a little better.
This whole bounty thing in question - the reason for the thread - is because it has an intent to injure. These guys are getting paid to have a guy carted off the field. That is intent to injure, beyond the scope of the game.
Sure, no one wants to see people breaking their necks in the game, and it does happen. But when a system is put into place to entice people to break necks is where I have an issue.0 -
No, I didn't miss the point, I never said it was OK to intentionally say try to break someone's leg. I said: They are paid to intentionally physically stop other players. Injuries are part of the game. They are always trying to intentionally hurt each other in some way to slow each outher down. Every team has a game plan to target and stop certain individuals.
Hitting another player hard often knocks the wind out of them causing them to step out of play. It happens. No one is advocating breaking arms and legs - really, when did I say that? If a "bounty" is paid say if you sack the QB more than 3 times per game, I hardly see the harm in it. Everyone wants to sack the QB. I don't believe anyone is being paid to be little football hitmen out there. And I think players like Rodney were unfairly painted as "dirty" for playing the game just like everyone else - only maybe a little better.
Pro players don't step out of play if they get the wind knocked out of them. It would have to be a whole lot more than just a hard hit to get put out of the game, and definitely more than that to have to be carried off the field. Getting paid for a sack, for something that actively advances the teams interests in the match, is one thing. It's already being done today, depending on the bonus layout of the player's contract. When that changes from being paid for a sack where the goal is primarily to get a down behind the line of scrimmage, to being paid for actively trying to hurt someone is where I see the problem. When you're offered money solely if the opponent is carried off the field in a stretcher, why wouldn't you do something dirty to get the payout? I think introducing rewards solely for the seriousness of the opponent's injury is tantamount to encouraging the 'breaking arms and legs' you mentioned.0 -
No, I didn't miss the point, I never said it was OK to intentionally say try to break someone's leg. I said: They are paid to intentionally physically stop other players. Injuries are part of the game. They are always trying to intentionally hurt each other in some way to slow each outher down. Every team has a game plan to target and stop certain individuals.
Hitting another player hard often knocks the wind out of them causing them to step out of play. It happens. No one is advocating breaking arms and legs - really, when did I say that? If a "bounty" is paid say if you sack the QB more than 3 times per game, I hardly see the harm in it. Everyone wants to sack the QB. I don't believe anyone is being paid to be little football hitmen out there. And I think players like Rodney were unfairly painted as "dirty" for playing the game just like everyone else - only maybe a little better.
Pro players don't step out of play if they get the wind knocked out of them. It would have to be a whole lot more than just a hard hit to get put out of the game, and definitely more than that to have to be carried off the field. Getting paid for a sack, for something that actively advances the teams interests in the match, is one thing. It's already being done today, depending on the bonus layout of the player's contract. When that changes from being paid for a sack where the goal is primarily to get a down behind the line of scrimmage, to being paid for actively trying to hurt someone is where I see the problem. When you're offered money solely if the opponent is carried off the field in a stretcher, why wouldn't you do something dirty to get the payout? I think introducing rewards solely for the seriousness of the opponent's injury is tantamount to encouraging the 'breaking arms and legs' you mentioned.
Right - and I don't think this is happening... I don't believe players are being paid to send guys off the field in a stretcher - yes that would be wrong. Bounties like I said for sacking the QB or other normal game play as extra incentive I see no issue. I have seen guys step out for a few plays who got the wind knocked out of them (some helped out) - of course it happens in pro ball.0 -
Right - and I don't think this is happening... I don't believe players are being paid to send guys off the field in a stretcher - yes that would be wrong. Bounties like I said for sacking the QB or other normal game play as extra incentive I see no issue. I have seen guys step out for a few plays who got the wind knocked out of them (some helped out) - of course it happens in pro ball.
So what you are saying is you don't believe the accusations being put forth about these bounties? The ones where intent to injure are a part of the payout.0 -
Right - and I don't think this is happening... I don't believe players are being paid to send guys off the field in a stretcher - yes that would be wrong. Bounties like I said for sacking the QB or other normal game play as extra incentive I see no issue. I have seen guys step out for a few plays who got the wind knocked out of them (some helped out) - of course it happens in pro ball.
This is what we were discussing:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/03/05/sport/nfl-bounty-scandal/index.html0 -
Right - and I don't think this is happening... I don't believe players are being paid to send guys off the field in a stretcher - yes that would be wrong. Bounties like I said for sacking the QB or other normal game play as extra incentive I see no issue. I have seen guys step out for a few plays who got the wind knocked out of them (some helped out) - of course it happens in pro ball.
This is what we were discussing:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/03/05/sport/nfl-bounty-scandal/index.html
Hadn't seen that article - just what was posted here. If this is true: "The NFL said as many as 27 players were paid up to $1,500 for vicious hits that would knock opposing players out of the game or force them to be carried off the football field." Meaning that they were paid not just to "hit" the intended player, but with the goal and intent of severly injuring them, then it's a sad day for the Saints.
I do see a difference though between being paid a bounty to target and hit someone, than to purposefully, intentionally, try to cause serious injury... it's where you draw the line... like say player B - every time you see player Z with the ball, I want you to hit him hard and stop that play! I think that is OK..... but saying "When player Z has the ball use that opportunity to wrap him up and twist his leg if you possibly can, maybe it'll break" = wrong.0 -
Hadn't seen that article - just what was posted here. If this is true: "The NFL said as many as 27 players were paid up to $1,500 for vicious hits that would knock opposing players out of the game or force them to be carried off the football field." Meaning that they were paid not just to "hit" the intended player, but with the goal and intent of severly injuring them, then it's a sad day for the Saints.
I do see a difference though between being paid a bounty to target and hit someone, than to purposefully, intentionally, try to cause serious injury... it's where you draw the line... like say player B - every time you see player Z with the ball, I want you to hit him hard and stop that play! I think that is OK..... but saying "When player Z has the ball use that opportunity to wrap him up and twist his leg if you possibly can, maybe it'll break" = wrong.
We are on exactly the same page then
0 -
Hadn't seen that article - just what was posted here. If this is true: "The NFL said as many as 27 players were paid up to $1,500 for vicious hits that would knock opposing players out of the game or force them to be carried off the football field." Meaning that they were paid not just to "hit" the intended player, but with the goal and intent of severly injuring them, then it's a sad day for the Saints.
I do see a difference though between being paid a bounty to target and hit someone, than to purposefully, intentionally, try to cause serious injury... it's where you draw the line... like say player B - every time you see player Z with the ball, I want you to hit him hard and stop that play! I think that is OK..... but saying "When player Z has the ball use that opportunity to wrap him up and twist his leg if you possibly can, maybe it'll break" = wrong.
We are on exactly the same page then
Ditto.0 -
Say in the event of a hit with the intention of seriously injuring, that caused a death, would anyone support criminal action... manslaughter?
Say a teammate came forward and said, "he was/ we were told to hit the person and injure them if possible". Would you justify the charges if it were able to be proved?0 -
Bounties are fine if they are carried out in a legal fashion. Rules are rules, and as long as the players aren't eye gouging, chop blocking, or a littany of other illegal his, then it should be fine. But is a coach is saying, "Hey, 100,000 grand if you horse collar that guy and snap his neck with an illegal move" then, the player and the coach should be fired and held accountable. Legally, I don't know what should happen. Even boxing and UFC have rules.0
-
Say in the event of a hit with the intention of seriously injuring, that caused a death, would anyone support criminal action... manslaughter?
Say a teammate came forward and said, "he was/ we were told to hit the person and injure them if possible". Would you justify the charges if it were able to be proved?
Hard to say because I don't honestly think any prosecutor could win that case. Is it manslaughter, though?
man·slaugh·ter/ˈmanˌslôtər/
Noun:
The crime of killing a human being without malice aforethought, or otherwise in circumstances not amounting to murder.
Definitely. What degree though is debatable.0 -
Players are already punished for hits that are deemed illegal or too violent both on the field and in the wallet (ask James Harrison and Ndumakong Suh). The fines that they are docked with far outstrip ANY bounties even contemplated - including the $10,000 one offered by Vilma. So let's not pretend that they are being paid bounties that would counteract the already in place rules and deterrents. Does anyone really think that winning $1,000 is going to motivate someone to risk at minumum a $10,000 fine or at worst a suspension that will cost the player hundreds of thousands of dollars?
Huge hits are celebrated by every sports outlet on earth. Have any of you ever watched ESPN?
The amounts talked about here are so miniscule. It would be like us pooling our money and offering $20 for the meanest post. Would that $20 be much if the post that won it got the winner booted from the forums?
Now, I know, we're talking about people getting hurt, but people get hurt playing football. It's a violent game. With or without bounties. Some of the most successful defensive players of all time have acknowledged that their midset when they hit someone is to destroy them. With or without bounties.
Did Jack Tatum need bounties? Jack Lambert? Lawrence Taylor? Ray Nitzchke?
If the amounts of money being discussed was substantial enough to insulate a player from any penalties that might otherwise result from an illegal hit, THEN I would agree that there was a problem. As it is I see this as nothing but hand-wringing.0
