Feminism
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Carl01
Posts: 9,370 Member
A take off from another thread but asking how the feminist movement of the 70s has changed relationship perceptions among both guys and ladies.
Has it changed what guys think a lady wants,has it changed what a lady expects or wants?
Has it changed what guys think a lady wants,has it changed what a lady expects or wants?
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I think that the feminist movement has taught women to expect more from life. I was just talking about this last night with my mother. Women used to be viewed as property. Women didn't get the vote until after African American men. (Proving that women were really considered to be the bottom of the food chain in the eyes of historical caucasian men.) Women were expected to keep the house clean, have supper ready, and ensure that the children were presentable and well behaved at all times, and the whole time doing it in heels and pearls. Women could not DO anything (What was expected of them or what they wanted) without being judged by someone else.
Now we can have jobs and make ALMOST equal wages for equal work, we can be single, independent, and have thoughts and opinions of our own. It's opened up a world of opportunity.
However, there are still women who like the concept of a nuclear family and life, who like to care for their husbands and children, who like being domestic, and power to them. . However, if they're also holding down a full-time job, I could see how they could get burned out - It's essentially having 2 full time jobs. In return they often like to have security, and a traditional minded man.
Personally, I want a partner - I don't care if you open the door for me, but you'd better respect my opinion, even if you don't agree with it. You can make more than I do, but don't talk down to me about how I spend my money. Nothing makes me crazier in a relationship than being dictated to or controlled. Second to that, is someone who lets me walk all over them. I love an intellectual man with a spine who lets me be me. . I offer the same in return.0 -
Okay, I'm a domesticated feminist.. haha
I'm won't be anybody's property. I will be heard. I will treat my man like a king and I will be treated like a queen. I work full time so I won't be the only one looking after the house.
I want a partner but want him to be take the role as the man in the relationship... whatever that entails.0 -
From society (work, family, etc.), yes guys think ladies want more control...Has it changed what guys think a lady wants, has it changed what a lady expects or wants?
In relationships, yes guys think ladies want more control...
BUT
If from society ladies expect and want more control, in relationship they still expect the same old.
We (men) didn't get the memo.0 -
This is a huge topic that I haven't got time to write about now, but basically, post feminism is about equality. In the workplace and in relationships. That doesnt mean that women should be less feminine or men should be less masculine! We are still different sexes. Its more about killing off the bad bits: being treated like 2nd class citizens, getting paid less for doing the same job, chauvanism, sexism, surpression, oppression........and living in a unified world of equality!
I think that both sexes got confused along the way: women became staunch feminists, burned their bra's and decided to tell men they didnt need them!! Which was rubbish, of course!! And men became weak and submissive and didnt know if they were coming or going!! I think human beings are happier with defined roles?? However, I think it had to go too far the other way, and exaggerate the point, in order to get back to equal footing?
I think we are now getting back to an equilibrium that both sexes are happy with (for the most part?) :bigsmile:0 -
Okay, I'm a domesticated feminist.. haha
I'm won't be anybody's property. I will be heard. I will treat my man like a king and I will be treated like a queen. I work full time so I won't be the only one looking after the house.
I want a partner but want him to be take the role as the man in the relationship... whatever that entails.
I love this! This is exactly my thoughts.0 -
I think it has..because I can support myself, I don't HAVE to find a man to support me. I'm able to choose partners for reasons other than financial.
Of course, the flip side is that I would have been better off making my selections based on responsibility instead of the string of hot losers I've had...but there ya go
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What brought the thread up was my observation of what ladies say and write here on MFP that in a relationship they seem to want to take a subordinate role,the guy being taller,somewhat dominant in personality etc.
Growing up through the 70s we were taught endlessly that treating a lady in any kind of "traditional" role was sexist and disrespectful.
My guess is that both men and women are now somewhat confused as to how to treat the other.
A guy is mystified to hear that what he thought was simply being respectful and courteous can be viewed as weak and a lady who wants to be strong and independent is finding "well not in that way though" crossing her mind often.0 -
Honestly, I watched my grandmother and mother both struggle to learn the "man chores" after death/divorce. So I learned early on to be independent.
I don't consider myself a feminist or any -ist really.
I love men, any shape/size/color. I love them and all the different things they bring to a relationship. But I have yet to meet a man I cannot function in this life without. And I know I will be able to provide for myself no matter what Life throws at me.0 -
I will treat my man like a king and I will be treated like a queen...I want a partner but want him to be take the role as the man in the relationship... whatever that entails.
Me too!
I am a strong woman, and I work in a male-dominated career. When I come home, I don't want to keep "playing a man," I want to be the woman. I am a bit old-fashioned in that respect (not others! lol), and looking for a man who can strike that balance, who can be strong, assertive, confident, take care of business but still respect me and my opinion. While he may, technically, be the "head of the househould," I will not allow myself to be dismissed as "the little woman."
Tough balance.0 -
I will treat my man like a king and I will be treated like a queen...I want a partner but want him to be take the role as the man in the relationship... whatever that entails.
Me too!
I am a strong woman, and I work in a male-dominated career. When I come home, I don't want to keep "playing a man," I want to be the woman. I am a bit old-fashioned in that respect (not others! lol), and looking for a man who can strike that balance, who can be strong, assertive, confident, take care of business but still respect me and my opinion. While he may, technically, be the "head of the househould," I will not allow myself to be dismissed as "the little woman."
Tough balance.
I think that sums up best what any relationship needs to be about.
With that being a constant every thing else seems to fall into place on its own.:drinker:
It is why no matter how heated an argument gets with one of my friends at some point we all just stop and say,it isn`t worth fighting about,you feel what you do and myself the same.
That is obviously different then living with someone where eventually in some things one has to go along with the other but I think that respect for anothers point of view will work out most of the time when mutual.0 -
And that's good. Because that means you're not broken.But I have yet to meet a man I cannot function in this life without. And I know I will be able to provide for myself no matter what Life throws at me.
Nobody wants to date broken person, nobody wants to fix other people's problem. You're actually at the top of your "attractivity potential" if that's the case.
Don't go and meet a man you cannot function without, but meet a man you can function with, and who will bring the best in you and who will grow with you!0 -
And that's good. Because that means you're not broken.But I have yet to meet a man I cannot function in this life without. And I know I will be able to provide for myself no matter what Life throws at me.
Nobody wants to date broken person, nobody wants to fix other people's problem. You're actually at the top of your "attractivity potential" if that's the case.
Don't go and meet a man you cannot function without, but meet a man you can function with, and who will bring the best in you and who will grow with you!
I love this. Exactly!0 -
What brought the thread up was my observation of what ladies say and write here on MFP that in a relationship they seem to want to take a subordinate role,the guy being taller,somewhat dominant in personality etc.
Growing up through the 70s we were taught endlessly that treating a lady in any kind of "traditional" role was sexist and disrespectful.
My guess is that both men and women are now somewhat confused as to how to treat the other.
A guy is mystified to hear that what he thought was simply being respectful and courteous can be viewed as weak and a lady who wants to be strong and independent is finding "well not in that way though" crossing her mind often.
I dont think wanting a tall guy to protect you implies youre surbordinate. It just implies that you like the physical nature of a man. I'm very independent, but I still like tall, protective gentleman! Like I said, feminism isnt about femininity and masculinity, its just about equality. It's a mental attitude not a physical desire. Just because a woman wants to cook and look after a house, doesnt mean she's submissive or wants to be controlled in any way. And just because a man puts his arm around a woman in a protective way doesnt mean he's controlling!
Just be a man and do what is instinctively manly, but dont look down on a woman or treat her like a lesser being. That's what went on pre feminism and what women have been fighting against.0 -
My ex in college stuck to the new-era woman persona pretty hard-core (which I appreciate) except... she also stuck to the traditionalist value scheme from a support perspective (guy pays for everything, bills, dinner etc.) which drove me nuts.0
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My ex in college stuck to the new-era woman persona pretty hard-core (which I appreciate) except... she also stuck to the traditionalist value scheme from a support perspective (guy pays for everything, bills, dinner etc.) which drove me nuts.
That's a nice double standard.0 -
My ex in college stuck to the new-era woman persona pretty hard-core (which I appreciate) except... she also stuck to the traditionalist value scheme from a support perspective (guy pays for everything, bills, dinner etc.) which drove me nuts.
I've seen that before.0 -
I completely agree with AnnaPixie!
I want the guy to take on the traditional male role and take charge, but that doesn't really make me submissive. However, a lot of the guys I meet, don't really take charge and I have lowered my expectations. It may be that I attract more passive guys or something...0 -
I have to ask then how many ladies are okay with either losing an argument or giving in on a disagreement?
By that I mean will do it without punishing a guy for hours/days or having to have some way down the road to even the score.
I see a lot of women saying basically don`t bother arguing with me because no matter what happens you will lose in some way at some time.
Is this just making a sarcastic quip or the truth?
My personal experience is that it tends to be the truth although no generalization is ever completely accurate.0 -
In another thread, pa_jorg commented that she thinks feminism is lot on those under 40-45. I really see where she's coming from there, but I see it a differently. Women are 40 have lived in the post feminist world and the things that feminists protested in the 1960s and 1970s were in place in the 1980s. Women born in the 1980s for example have only known the post feminist movement world and take for granted what was discussed. The workplace has changed dramatically.
I think there has been less gender role clarity in recent decades.0 -
I have to ask then how many ladies are okay with either losing an argument or giving in on a disagreement?
By that I mean will do it without punishing a guy for hours/days or having to have some way down the road to even the score.
I see a lot of women saying basically don`t bother arguing with me because no matter what happens you will lose in some way at some time.
Is this just making a sarcastic quip or the truth?
My personal experience is that it tends to be the truth although no generalization is ever completely accurate.
I'd like to think that after being married to someone and taking the time to work on myself and my mistakes, that I'm fine with losing an argument. I'm also fine with saying I'm sorry when I'm wrong. This is the problem that I was talking about earlier. When I'm wrong, I want to be called out on it.. I don't want someone letting me run wild (I don't but I'm using it as an extreme example). I want him to be comfortable enough with himself and with me that he can point out when I've overstepped. I'd like that same freedom.
To me, women (or people in general) who can't be wrong or give in yet pay back later are game players. That's not love. Love is about giving/ receiving.
I'm all about compromise too when it comes to some things. You say 10 oclock, I say 9 oclock.. well let's do 9:30 and make everybody happy. :bigsmile:0
