Putting my toe in the water
Replies
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I had a fabulous coffee shop date yesterday. No, there was no passionate kissing, but I'm not gonna “passionately” kiss anyone on the first day I meet him. Not my style. For me, being able to be comfortable with someone is part of what builds attraction. We’ve made plans to go out “for real” this time, and I can’t wait to see him all gussied up (he’s yummy). Plenty of attraction there.
As for point 4, I think I just must associate with a different crowd than you do. Because of the happy couples I’m observing most of them the man had to work hard to woo her. To hear them tell it, anyway.
If you were on a date with Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Denzel Washington or any other guy who you perceive as hot, you'd kiss if he wanted to. Even a small lip lock.
Wow.
DM, you are handsome. But this thought right here? If this thought was verbalized to me by a date or potential date, I would strongly consider throwing a water in his face or suggesting he has low self esteem.
Most women who are seriously looking for their special someone do not just jump at the chance to liplock a hot man.
Character in that area, as well as the quality of the date, along with a dash of "right moment" is what matters.
Yeah, I don't think so I would necessarily kiss one of those people either. I sometimes make jokes like "if Jon Hamm came up to me and was like 'wanna have sex' I would say 'your place or mine?'" but I mean those as jokes - strictly jokes - and I'm about 99% sure that other women who make similar comments mean the same thing. Some women might jump at the opportunity, but it is more because he is a celebrity.
There is a guy who I've kind of had a crush on for a while, and he is really cute. I have definitely had the opportunity to kiss him, but I've chosen not too because it is not something I do without getting to know the person better. It doesn't matter if you're gorgeous or not.0 -
I have two schools of thought for you on this:
1. Just say you are not ready or interested to meet at this time after all, but thanks for the offer.
2. If he seems like a nice guy, even though he is not what you are looking for, you could meet him just to get one date under your belt. This might help you to build confidence for when you do come across someone you actually like.
^^^ This - and a cup of coffee couldnt hurt, and it will get you out0 -
If you were on a date with Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Denzel Washington or any other guy who you perceive as hot, you'd kiss if he wanted to. Even a small lip lock.
ew. ew. and double ew.
If I had a great date with a hot guy that I didn’t know, and he gave me a light goodnight kiss, I’d allow it. If he tried to start making out/heavy kissing, I’d interpret it as not truly being interested in a relationship but rather trying to get in the sack and probably wouldn’t go out with him again. Even if he were rich and famous… **especially** if he were rich and famous. I’m sure other girls would invite him in and have a great time; it takes all kinds to run a world.0 -
Personally I would be a bit hurt or even miffed if I found out a lady agreed to a meeting just as a practice run for her.
Most ladies here have expressed that they consider it the guys responsibility to ask,plan,provide the first date so don`t be disingenuous regarding the reason for accepting.
You say yes then I am going to presume that you had at least a shadow of an interest in a potential relationship developing.
I'm not out to offend or hurt anyone. What I said above is what I needed to do for myself to feel comfortable on my very first date in recent times. I stand by the 'pick a nice guy and not a creep' for the comfort aspect. With that said, had he turned out to be prince charming then I would have gone on a second date, so isn't that the point of dating? Metaphorically try the person out and seeing what happens? But realistically, what are the chances there will be a second date anyway especially when you might not know yourself what you are looking for at the putting a toe in the water stage? If the OP were an experienced dater, my answer would most likely have been different...0 -
Personally I would be a bit hurt or even miffed if I found out a lady agreed to a meeting just as a practice run for her.
Most ladies here have expressed that they consider it the guys responsibility to ask,plan,provide the first date so don`t be disingenuous regarding the reason for accepting.
You say yes then I am going to presume that you had at least a shadow of an interest in a potential relationship developing.
I'm not out to offend or hurt anyone. What I said above is what I needed to do for myself to feel comfortable on my very first date in recent times. I stand by the 'pick a nice guy and not a creep' for the comfort aspect. With that said, had he turned out to be prince charming then I would have gone on a second date, so isn't that the point of dating? Metaphorically try the person out and seeing what happens? But realistically, what are the chances there will be a second date anyway especially when you might not know yourself what you are looking for at the putting a toe in the water stage? If the OP were an experienced dater, my answer would most likely have been different...
There, that is the answer I couldn't word Carl :flowerforyou:
First dates are always practice, it's all in how you look at it!0 -
If you were on a date with Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Denzel Washington or any other guy who you perceive as hot, you'd kiss if he wanted to. Even a small lip lock.
ew. ew. and double ew.
If I had a great date with a hot guy that I didn’t know, and he gave me a light goodnight kiss, I’d allow it. If he tried to start making out/heavy kissing, I’d interpret it as not truly being interested in a relationship but rather trying to get in the sack and probably wouldn’t go out with him again. Even if he were rich and famous… **especially** if he were rich and famous. I’m sure other girls would invite him in and have a great time; it takes all kinds to run a world.
I am the same as you Janie. I have hugged and some light kissed on the first date but I have never made out with a guy I just met on a first date. I just don't even see myself doing that.0 -
Personally I would be a bit hurt or even miffed if I found out a lady agreed to a meeting just as a practice run for her.
Most ladies here have expressed that they consider it the guys responsibility to ask,plan,provide the first date so don`t be disingenuous regarding the reason for accepting.
You say yes then I am going to presume that you had at least a shadow of an interest in a potential relationship developing.
I'm not out to offend or hurt anyone. What I said above is what I needed to do for myself to feel comfortable on my very first date in recent times. I stand by the 'pick a nice guy and not a creep' for the comfort aspect. With that said, had he turned out to be prince charming then I would have gone on a second date, so isn't that the point of dating? Metaphorically try the person out and seeing what happens? But realistically, what are the chances there will be a second date anyway especially when you might not know yourself what you are looking for at the putting a toe in the water stage? If the OP were an experienced dater, my answer would most likely have been different...
There, that is the answer I couldn't word Carl :flowerforyou:
First dates are always practice, it's all in how you look at it!
I was going by the context of the OP where she said she had no interest in him at all.
At that point to me saying yes for any reason would be wrong unless that was clearly expressed to him.0 -
Nope.When all these rules start getting thrown around, not just by you, but by anyone...Lord, there goes the fun.
You (women) just get to enjoy the date thinking everything went "flawlessly" without any form of planning. We (men) do the organization, we take care of all that part.
I can't think of no man who will arrive and throw all these rules at your face: this would be stupid (however that doesn't mean he doesn't use them as a guideline for his dates).
And from a purely statistical point of view (ROI = I want most of my dates to be successful), I agree with DMZ that we need to optimize dates for success (location, type of dates, time). :sick:
I think DMZ is a bit on the extremist side when he talks about these "Rules" (at least on this forum, because I'm sure he is more flexible in life), but these kind of rules are definitely good guidelines.
And "who" is with you on the date also entirely depends on "where" the dates happen. Extreme example: if you take me for a date (as a male) to a dinner with a table full of girl friends/girly girls then there is no way I'll be able to present myself in the right way for the "who" (me) to be the right person. So context matters... :happy:
Like for job interviews, I leave as little to chance as possible...0 -
Personally I would be a bit hurt or even miffed if I found out a lady agreed to a meeting just as a practice run for her.
Most ladies here have expressed that they consider it the guys responsibility to ask,plan,provide the first date so don`t be disingenuous regarding the reason for accepting.
You say yes then I am going to presume that you had at least a shadow of an interest in a potential relationship developing.
I'm not out to offend or hurt anyone. What I said above is what I needed to do for myself to feel comfortable on my very first date in recent times. I stand by the 'pick a nice guy and not a creep' for the comfort aspect. With that said, had he turned out to be prince charming then I would have gone on a second date, so isn't that the point of dating? Metaphorically try the person out and seeing what happens? But realistically, what are the chances there will be a second date anyway especially when you might not know yourself what you are looking for at the putting a toe in the water stage? If the OP were an experienced dater, my answer would most likely have been different...
There, that is the answer I couldn't word Carl :flowerforyou:
First dates are always practice, it's all in how you look at it!
I was going by the context of the OP where she said she had no interest in him at all.
At that point to me saying yes for any reason would be wrong unless that was clearly expressed to him.
That's interesting because I think I read into this that if the OP took the time to post and ask for opinions then it means she doesn't really even know what she wants with this specific guy. And if she is as early in the dating stage as suggested, then her head is probably swirling because someone showed some interest (I know that happened to me at least).0 -
Thank you all for your input. It has been rather... enlightening to see how this has grown throughout the day.
The money thing was just an example (and it is kind of big deal for me) but not my only reason for passing. I'm not into the guy. And being a little rusty, I don't want one of my first times out to be with someone where I'm looking at my watch every three seconds. I understand that it could be used as practice, I do. I get it. But I really don't want to look at dates like job interviews. Call me naive, romantic, whatever, but it's the way I see things.
Carl, I thank you for words - they will be utilized later tonight.
And really, thank you guys!0 -
Nope.When all these rules start getting thrown around, not just by you, but by anyone...Lord, there goes the fun.
You (women) just get to enjoy the date thinking everything went "flawlessly" without any form of planning. We (men) do the organization, we take care of all that part.
I can't think of no man who will arrive and throw all these rules at your face: this would be stupid (however that doesn't mean he doesn't use them as a guideline for his dates).
And from a purely statistical point of view (ROI = I want most of my dates to be successful), I agree with DMZ that we need to optimize dates for success (location, type of dates, time). :sick:
I think DMZ is a bit on the extremist side when he talks about these "Rules" (at least on this forum, because I'm sure he is more flexible in life), but these kind of rules are definitely good guidelines.
And "who" is with you on the date also entirely depends on "where" the dates happen. Extreme example: if you take me for a date (as a male) to a dinner with a table full of girl friends/girly girls then there is no way I'll be able to present myself in the right way for the "who" (me) to be the right person. So context matters... :happy:
Like for job interviews, I leave as little to chance as possible...
^This. Thanks buddy! Those are my points.
Let's not forget the OP's original concern. She just wasn't into this particular guy. She could easily copy and paste what Carl suggested or just outright ignore the message. Guys online are used to getting messages not responded to. And I'm sure someone will message her and strike her fancy. Many women do get a lot of messages and have good choices online.0 -
Nope.When all these rules start getting thrown around, not just by you, but by anyone...Lord, there goes the fun.
You (women) just get to enjoy the date thinking everything went "flawlessly" without any form of planning. We (men) do the organization, we take care of all that part.
I can't think of no man who will arrive and throw all these rules at your face: this would be stupid (however that doesn't mean he doesn't use them as a guideline for his dates).
And from a purely statistical point of view (ROI = I want most of my dates to be successful), I agree with DMZ that we need to optimize dates for success (location, type of dates, time). :sick:
I think DMZ is a bit on the extremist side when he talks about these "Rules" (at least on this forum, because I'm sure he is more flexible in life), but these kind of rules are definitely good guidelines.
And "who" is with you on the date also entirely depends on "where" the dates happen. Extreme example: if you take me for a date (as a male) to a dinner with a table full of girl friends/girly girls then there is no way I'll be able to present myself in the right way for the "who" (me) to be the right person. So context matters... :happy:
Like for job interviews, I leave as little to chance as possible...
Ok, I don't know any men that have gone through any amount of trouble other than saying how about here at this time.
Not a big stressor there.
And I am more than sure a woman spends double the time getting ready for the date. Having been present for males getting ready for anything from a dinner date to the prom, I can confirm this.
I do agree that the where matters, but not so much if it's a coffee shop and you're both coffee/tea lovers.
And life is all about chance. I'm not going to be comfortable if something is planned to a T because it leads me to believe a few things: A) You're a player and do this often enough to have a routine;
You're a control freak; C) You are taking the first date to an extreme that will probably not be maintainable once we begin a relationship.
Here's what I like to know when I am invited or inviting to a date: What time, where are we going, will it be more casual or dressy. That's all. Even when I do the planning. If a reservation is in order, then I will call it in but seriously. What else should there be??0 -
That's interesting because I think I read into this that if the OP took the time to post and ask for opinions then it means she doesn't really even know what she wants with this specific guy. And if she is as early in the dating stage as suggested, then her head is probably swirling because someone showed some interest (I know that happened to me at least).
If you look at her last sentence it was asking how to end communication with him so was going by that.0 -
Nope.When all these rules start getting thrown around, not just by you, but by anyone...Lord, there goes the fun.
You (women) just get to enjoy the date thinking everything went "flawlessly" without any form of planning. We (men) do the organization, we take care of all that part.
I can't think of no man who will arrive and throw all these rules at your face: this would be stupid (however that doesn't mean he doesn't use them as a guideline for his dates).
And from a purely statistical point of view (ROI = I want most of my dates to be successful), I agree with DMZ that we need to optimize dates for success (location, type of dates, time). :sick:
I think DMZ is a bit on the extremist side when he talks about these "Rules" (at least on this forum, because I'm sure he is more flexible in life), but these kind of rules are definitely good guidelines.
And "who" is with you on the date also entirely depends on "where" the dates happen. Extreme example: if you take me for a date (as a male) to a dinner with a table full of girl friends/girly girls then there is no way I'll be able to present myself in the right way for the "who" (me) to be the right person. So context matters... :happy:
Like for job interviews, I leave as little to chance as possible...
Ok, I don't know any men that have gone through any amount of trouble other than saying how about here at this time.
Not a big stressor there.
And I am more than sure a woman spends double the time getting ready for the date. Having been present for males getting ready for anything from a dinner date to the prom, I can confirm this.
I do agree that the where matters, but not so much if it's a coffee shop and you're both coffee/tea lovers.
And life is all about chance. I'm not going to be comfortable if something is planned to a T because it leads me to believe a few things: A) You're a player and do this often enough to have a routine; You're a control freak; C) You are taking the first date to an extreme that will probably not be maintainable once we begin a relationship.
Here's what I like to know when I am invited or inviting to a date: What time, where are we going, will it be more casual or dressy. That's all. Even when I do the planning. If a reservation is in order, then I will call it in but seriously. What else should there be??
Which kind of gets us back to the inevitable lose lose for a guy...do this and it is a problem,give any evidence there was no preparation and it is resented,goof up and pick a wrong location/event and many here have said that would be the first and last date.
Part of the reason for trying to formulate some sort of "rules" is because (not accusing you of it,just happen to be talking to you) of the cavalier attitude that many ladies seem to have where they expect much,contribute little and are willing to risk nothing as far as possible rejection.0 -
dang girl, it's just coffee.
why are you already looking at this as someone you could or couldnt spend the rest of your life with? :laugh: that's kind of hard to tell based off a few sentences on an online dating profile.
i would say if it seems like a nice guy then meet him for coffee. you never know how you might get on.
if you dont want to go, then just say no thanks.
i think you're over thinking this way more than you need to0 -
i think you're over thinking this way more than you need to
Oh, totally. I'll never dispute that :ohwell:0 -
Sometimes when I read these posts I think it's ironic that we are asking a bunch of single how to communicate with a potential suiter. It's kind of like going to a bar and asking for help with a drinking problem.0
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Which kind of gets us back to the inevitable lose lose for a guy...do this and it is a problem,give any evidence there was no preparation and it is resented,goof up and pick a wrong location/event and many here have said that would be the first and last date.
Part of the reason for trying to formulate some sort of "rules" is because (not accusing you of it,just happen to be talking to you) of the cavalier attitude that many ladies seem to have where they expect much,contribute little and are willing to risk nothing as far as possible rejection.
Sooooooooooo....What you're saying, darlin', is that you men are all screwed no matter what you do.
Good to know we are all actually the same under the whole gender thing.
Let's just put it this way, if you're (meaning any man/woman) a rule person, you'll do best with a rule person. If a person is about bending and breaking rules? They would not do too well with a rule-person. I know, I've been the rule person with the non-rule person. I'm not saying rule-people are better or worse than the non-rule people, I'm just saying once I ditched the rules and just got happy in my skin I enjoy the process more. :drinker:
Not suggested for all, though. But in more extreme cases, think "Along Came Polly".0 -
Sometimes when I read these posts I think it's ironic that we are asking a bunch of single how to communicate with a potential suiter. It's kind of like going to a bar and asking for help with a drinking problem.
:laugh:
:laugh: 0 -
Sometimes when I read these posts I think it's ironic that we are asking a bunch of single how to communicate with a potential suiter. It's kind of like going to a bar and asking for help with a drinking problem.
Haha I have thought that as well on occasion! Too funny! But a lot of people here have been in long term relationships so I think they know something!0 -
Which kind of gets us back to the inevitable lose lose for a guy...do this and it is a problem,give any evidence there was no preparation and it is resented,goof up and pick a wrong location/event and many here have said that would be the first and last date.
Part of the reason for trying to formulate some sort of "rules" is because (not accusing you of it,just happen to be talking to you) of the cavalier attitude that many ladies seem to have where they expect much,contribute little and are willing to risk nothing as far as possible rejection.
Sooooooooooo....What you're saying, darlin', is that you men are all screwed no matter what you do.
Good to know we are all actually the same under the whole gender thing.
Let's just put it this way, if you're (meaning any man/woman) a rule person, you'll do best with a rule person. If a person is about bending and breaking rules? They would not do too well with a rule-person. I know, I've been the rule person with the non-rule person. I'm not saying rule-people are better or worse than the non-rule people, I'm just saying once I ditched the rules and just got happy in my skin I enjoy the process more. :drinker:
Not suggested for all, though. But in more extreme cases, think "Along Came Polly".
I have to say, in defence of the guys, that I'm pretty useless at planning dates!! :laugh: (unless its a specific gig or movie or place I've been to before) I dont really consider directions, noise, time, crowds, service, last train home etc (and these are all good considerations when I think about it now.....facepalm!! :laugh: ) So, when a guy puts some thought into it, and we have a good time (obviously this would depend on if I like the guy and like the venue) and everything runs smoothly, then I am very appreciative of his efforts/suggestions.
I've never thought a guy is either ABor C if a date is thought out. As you've said, its not really stressful (but it does take some thought) to plan a time and a venue, so, for me, it would take a few more red flags in different areas to define ABorC.
I do hear what you're saying though, as being spontaneous and just going with the wind, also works well for me!!
At the end of the day, I think we all know that if the chemistry is right, and/or the company is right, then the actual venue has little to do with it. I could sit on the side of a river and talk for hours with the right person. So the actual venue will never be the deal breaker.
So I guess I'm seeing both sides. And I'm not really a rule person :flowerforyou:0 -
Sometimes when I read these posts I think it's ironic that we are asking a bunch of single how to communicate with a potential suiter. It's kind of like going to a bar and asking for help with a drinking problem.
Maybe, but haven't you learned a lot about the way the opposite gender thinks from the forum? I know I have and it's been helpful in putting my real life situations into perspective.0 -
Sometimes when I read these posts I think it's ironic that we are asking a bunch of single how to communicate with a potential suiter. It's kind of like going to a bar and asking for help with a drinking problem.
Maybe, but haven't you learned a lot about the way the opposite gender thinks from the forum? I know I have and it's been helpful in putting my real life situations into perspective.
Besides that 50% or more of all marriages end in divorce,that stat has remained steady for decades and out of the remaining 50% I would bet half of those are not happy.
If I am right that means a quarter of all marriages are not what they are desired to be when saying "I do" so I don`t think marrieds hold any special knowledge about relationships outside of those that have made it work.0 -
Maybe, but haven't you learned a lot about the way the opposite gender thinks from the forum? I know I have and it's been helpful in putting my real life situations into perspective.Besides that 50% or more of all marriages end in divorce,that stat has remained steady for decades and out of the remaining 50% I would bet half of those are not happy.
People who have been married or in LTRs for a long time can offer perspective that many singles who haven't been in a relationship longer than a few months wouldn't even know to consider. Living with someone for 15 years really opens your eyes to what's important to you. And what's not important to a relationship.
You're right that most married folks aren't ecstatically happy... there's a marriage book called Going All the Way that talks about how only 7% of first marriages (and 15% of all marriages) are rated by the couple as "exceptional" for satisfaction, longevity, and fulfillment.
And, yes, I've learned a LOT about the opposite gender from this board. Kinda depressing, though.0 -
Maybe, but haven't you learned a lot about the way the opposite gender thinks from the forum? I know I have and it's been helpful in putting my real life situations into perspective.Besides that 50% or more of all marriages end in divorce,that stat has remained steady for decades and out of the remaining 50% I would bet half of those are not happy.
People who have been married or in LTRs for a long time can offer perspective that many singles who haven't been in a relationship longer than a few months wouldn't even know to consider. Living with someone for 15 years really opens your eyes to what's important to you. And what's not important to a relationship.
You're right that most married folks aren't ecstatically happy... there's a marriage book called Going All the Way that talks about how only 7% of first marriages (and 15% of all marriages) are rated by the couple as "exceptional" for satisfaction, longevity, and fulfillment.
And, yes, I've learned a LOT about the opposite gender from this board. Kinda depressing, though.
This, 100%.
I marriage failed, but I learned about myself in the process. And while going through the process (marriage and divorce), it began to understand the things that I never did as a single woman. How my mom could put up with this or my married girlfriend could let her husband do that. I finally understood that some things *really* aren't important. And some things I let go of really *were* important.
Also, I learned how the seemingly perfect couples truely dealt with things...healthy and not.
So yes, what we learn about on these boards and how misled we were in our beliefs can be depressing but it allows you to let go of some junk and move forward with new knowledge.
ETA: Watching Sex in the City, Charolette was asked how often she was truely happy in her marriage. And she said "Everyday. Maybe not all day everyday, but everyday." Ecstatic? Perhaps not, but content with the love you have with your partner? Yes. Happy with the person you've decided to spend your life with? Yes. These things are important, but we have to remember we are human and have bad moments.0 -
Besides that 50% or more of all marriages end in divorce,that stat has remained steady for decades and out of the remaining 50% I would bet half of those are not happy.
If I am right that means a quarter of all marriages are not what they are desired to be when saying "I do" so I don`t think marrieds hold any special knowledge about relationships outside of those that have made it work.
Actually only about 25% of marriages end in divorce. The 50% figure is a misapplication of statistics. Marriage and divorce rates are figured on persons married per 1000 in the population. The divorce rate is half the marriage rate but there is a lag between time of marriage and time of divorce and several of those getting divorced are doing so multiple times.0 -
Besides that 50% or more of all marriages end in divorce,that stat has remained steady for decades and out of the remaining 50% I would bet half of those are not happy.
If I am right that means a quarter of all marriages are not what they are desired to be when saying "I do" so I don`t think marrieds hold any special knowledge about relationships outside of those that have made it work.
Actually only about 25% of marriages end in divorce. The 50% figure is a misapplication of statistics. Marriage and divorce rates are figured on persons married per 1000 in the population. The divorce rate is half the marriage rate but there is a lag between time of marriage and time of divorce and several of those getting divorced are doing so multiple times.
It is probably about 25-30% of marriages ending in divorce and I fully agree on statistical misapplication. A Time article below helps explain. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1989124,00.html
Divorce rates have been falling since about the 1980s and since late 2007, divorce attorneys are reporting a decline in cases. People are staying together in many cases because they can't sell the house to effectively complete a divorce. There are a lot of unhappily married people out there, but on the whole marrieds are happier than the single people.0 -
Besides that 50% or more of all marriages end in divorce,that stat has remained steady for decades and out of the remaining 50% I would bet half of those are not happy.
If I am right that means a quarter of all marriages are not what they are desired to be when saying "I do" so I don`t think marrieds hold any special knowledge about relationships outside of those that have made it work.
Actually only about 25% of marriages end in divorce. The 50% figure is a misapplication of statistics. Marriage and divorce rates are figured on persons married per 1000 in the population. The divorce rate is half the marriage rate but there is a lag between time of marriage and time of divorce and several of those getting divorced are doing so multiple times.
It is probably about 25-30% of marriages ending in divorce and I fully agree on statistical misapplication. A Time article below helps explain. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1989124,00.html
Divorce rates have been falling since about the 1980s and since late 2007, divorce attorneys are reporting a decline in cases. People are staying together in many cases because they can't sell the house to effectively complete a divorce. There are a lot of unhappily married people out there, but on the whole marrieds are happier than the single people.
So, damned if you do and damned if you don't... how uplifting :sad:0 -
Sometimes when I read these posts I think it's ironic that we are asking a bunch of single how to communicate with a potential suiter. It's kind of like going to a bar and asking for help with a drinking problem.
Your post implies an assumption that single people are single because because they have poorer relationship building skills. That's not necessarily the case 0 -
I'd say I have a lot more experience communicating with potential suitors than someone that's been married for more than a few years. All they know how to say is "Yes dear," "No, that doesn't make you look fat," and "You are right and I am wrong."Sometimes when I read these posts I think it's ironic that we are asking a bunch of single how to communicate with a potential suiter. It's kind of like going to a bar and asking for help with a drinking problem.0
