From Pulldown to Pull-Ups/Chins?

Nopedotjpeg

Just recently restarted linear progression. I decided to do Practical Programming because I want to eventually build up to doing Pull-Ups and Chin-Ups (kind of lofty goal considering I weigh over 300 pounds). I've seem the tutorials and read about banded chin-ups in the book, but even with the band with the highest resistance my gym has, I could only get 3/4 way up to a full chin-up.

I've used Cable Pulldowns before, but not to consistently improve my strength in the move and to work up to a clear goal of a dead hang pull-up and chin-up. In SS and PP I know it says that if you're doing 15 bodyweight pull-ups to add weight. I'm not sure if this also means that's when you add weight though (as would be my case). Anyone have some ideas of what rep schemes to use for these? Also, should it be sets across or should I increase the weight each set?

Note: I don't have an assisted pull-up/gravitron machine at my gym, so that's not an option.

TheDevastator

I also weigh a lot (270) and am working towards doing chin-ups. I've been jumping up to the bar or using a step and doing negatives. I've been doing 2 sets of 5 of these.

For the cable pulldowns, I'd probably stick with a 5x5 program at 50-60% and add 5 lbs or the minimum amount of weight each session. I'm not sure if this is the best advice but I'm sure it would work.

Natx83

Def do the negatives, these greatly helped my chins and pulls. And I still do them at the end of workout, for something extra if I can still manange it.

tross0924

Well when I was there (300 lbs) I was doing P90X. They said to use a chair and use your legs to help you as little as possible, but do them with them. I think I averaged somewhere around 5 sets of 10 twice a week. Every week I pushed a little less with my legs. You can start scooting the chair farther away from you too, so it's not possible to use your legs as much.

Soooo . . . my advice would make sure you do the full range of motion. Use a chair or bench if you have to. Pick a set and rep count you want to do, and then do that many. As you get stronger, slide the chair farther away from you so that you're using it less and less. Once you can do even one without any assistance, do so, and then bring the chair back to finish your sets.

It'll take some time, but you'll get there if you keep at it. I think my first official non assisted pull up came 8 months into it and somewhere around the 240 lbs range.

rjingalls

I was unable to do any pullups for the longest time but not to long ago i started doing negatives, practically jumping to the top of the range of motion and going down slowly. In doing that ive gotten to the point where I can do about 4x15 now.
I used to use the bands but i dont feel like I got as much work out of them as with negatives.

dane11235813

I was unable to do any pullups for the longest time but not to long ago i started doing negatives, practically jumping to the top of the range of motion and going down slowly. In doing that ive gotten to the point where I can do about 4x15 now.
I used to use the bands but i dont feel like I got as much work out of them as with negatives.

4 X 15 at your weight? you're a beast RJ

i started being able to do 3-4 pullups and now i can get 8-9 solid reps. the chair idea and negatives are both great places to start if you don't have a pullup machine at your gym. you can do a million pulldowns but it's not going to replace doing actual pullups even if you're using a chair or just doing negatives.

iWaffle

I've always just used the pull down machine but I need more so based on some feedback here I've started with actual chin-ups and then negative chin-ups once I can't do any more in the set. I can do about 5 chin-ups before I switch to negatives. Once I can do 10 I'm going to switch over to pull-ups. Pretty sad but right now I can only do 1 on a good day.

Zero2hero2013

i have a similar problem, i can do chin ups and pull ups ( a few) but i cant manage one wide grip pull up yet. great ideas here and i will implement them, my plan is to do 4 sets of pull ups, 2 sets normal and 2 sets of 10 wide, negatives from around no 2 onwards lol. cheers for the ideas.

iWaffle

I did 5x8 on the negative chin-ups for 2 days this week. I just pushed a smith machine bar all the way up and used that. Just a slight hop and I can hold up my feet and slowly lower myself down. Now I'm sooooo sore. Not my lats or arms. My upper stomach. Wow! Had no idea that this worked your core that much. I don't remember every being this sore in my abs. I was just trying to do tricep push downs last night on a cable machine and ow ow ow that was quite painful for my abs.

Obviously this is a great exercise I've been missing out on. Soon as I'm not too sore I'm doing more of these. I tried last night but I had to quit cause I was laughing at how sore my abs were.

iWaffle

I was finally well enough to do more chin-ups today. Mentally I was thinking "Okay this is going to be tough" but to my surprise I actually did the first 5 really well. and just had to do 3 negatives on the first set. Of course by the time I got to the last set I could only do 1 before switching to negatives but I was encouraged by how well the first set went.

I think this works my stomach so much because I'm just doing these on a Smith machine. I paid more attention to it this time and I noticed that I'm holding my knees up parallel so my feet don't hit the ground on the way down. I'll just take this as a bonus exercise to go with the improved lats. Wider lats and a more muscle in the abs is a win-win in my book.

Zero2hero2013

my new routine has pull ups in it, tried to do some wide grips pull ups, and i can actually do 4-5 per set woohoo!
the only training i have been doing that i can think of that might help is, deadlifts, bent over rows, face pulls, squats and normal chin ups. keep trucking mate and i am sure before you know you will be doing them aswell. keep on keeping on mate!

Zero2hero2013

bates whats your stats mate? just checked you profile pics, looks like your quite a tall heavier guy? im 6ft 2 and weighing around 87-88kg. are you similar?

iWaffle

I'm at about 101 kg (223 pounds) right now and I'm 6' 2". I'm not really trying to lose weight now but I would like to be a bit leaner on the body fat % and that should help my ability to do pull ups better. I've been on vacation this whole last week so I haven't been in the gym for a solid week now. We'll find out tonight how well these chin-ups go since I feel totally rested and there's not a single sore muscle in my body. I plan on changing that tonight.

iWaffle

Still doing 5 sets of 8 chin-ups twice a week. I can now do the entire first set of chin-ups without doing negatives. While doing legs Saturday morning I attempted a wide grip pull up. Got one perfectly the first time but I don't know that I'm ready to try these seriously yet. Still going to keep working on the chin ups till I can do two sets without resorting to negatives. Then I'll probably trade out one day of chin-ups for pull ups.

iWaffle

I think these chin-ups have really boosted my bicep strength. I'm easily curling 50 lb dumbbells in sets of 6-8 reps even though it's my second exercise for bicep. I'm going to up those to 55 lbs this next week. I'm switching all my exercises to higher weight and lower reps. I normally did the 8-10 range but I think I'm getting better results from the lower weight and less reps. If i can do it more than 6 times it's time to add on some weight.

These chin-ups are still kicking my butt but I'm not giving up. I figure once I get my arms in a bit better shape I can punish my back and lats more with these things. I'm making strength gains really well and since I just reached goal this last week I added back in 500 calories a day to about 2500. This should help with everything I'm sure. Don't want to raise it too much because I still want to cut some body fat. Just don't want to rip through a pound a week anymore.

iWaffle

I'm up to the point where I can do sets of 5, 5, 4, 3 when I'm fully rested. That's serious progress. As soon as I can do 5x5 I'm changing one of my chin up days to pull ups. Of course I'll be back to doing negatives again but now that i see how well that works I'm actually eager to get started.

getsixpack

I don't do pullups at all cuz I heard they make ur back look smaller.... BUT I can do 15 reps which increased from! 10 reps before I started lifting heavy.... all I do is rows so I think that if you're not doing them already they could help you beat any pull up plateaus

iWaffle

I don't do pullups at all cuz I heard they make ur back look smaller.... BUT I can do 15 reps which increased from! 10 reps before I started lifting heavy.... all I do is rows so I think that if you're not doing them already they could help you beat any pull up plateaus

Just seated cable rows? Just started a new gym. They have a pull up assist machine. I'm debating trying that. Not sure if that just makes it too easy to ever get to the real thing.

Shfiftyfive

I don't do pullups at all cuz I heard they make ur back look smaller.

Bro science at it's finest.

Sidesteal

I don't do pullups at all cuz I heard they make ur back look smaller.... BUT I can do 15 reps which increased from! 10 reps before I started lifting heavy.... all I do is rows so I think that if you're not doing them already they could help you beat any pull up plateaus

They don't make your back look smaller. Pullups are great for back development.

iWaffle

Pullups are great for back development.

That's what I thought. I've seen these done by someone with no shirt on and the wide grip pull ups really engage the lats. In fact the main function of the latissimus dorsi is to pull your arms down toward your pelvis. Seems to me that wide grip pull ups is one of the best exercises you can do for this muscle. Since I think my lat development is lagging behind I'm wanting to get really good at this exercise. The end.

getsixpack

Prob but my back.is pretty well developed and my lats are huge I'll.get pics up after I'm done with my cut. I went to another gym yest and did some wide grip pulldowns but I still think dumbbell rows > lat pulldowns/pull ups

I don't do pullups at all cuz I heard they make ur back look smaller.

Bro science at it's finest.

Shfiftyfive

Prob but my back.is pretty well developed and my lats are huge I'll.get pics up after I'm done with my cut. I went to another gym yest and did some wide grip pulldowns but I still think dumbbell rows > lat pulldowns/pull ups

I don't do pullups at all cuz I heard they make ur back look smaller.

Bro science at it's finest.

Yes, because your anecdotal evidence is clearly more superior than others' anecdotal evidence.

wackyfunster

Prob but my back.is pretty well developed and my lats are huge I'll.get pics up after I'm done with my cut. I went to another gym yest and did some wide grip pulldowns but I still think dumbbell rows > lat pulldowns/pull ups

I don't do pullups at all cuz I heard they make ur back look smaller.

Bro science at it's finest.

Yes, because your anecdotal evidence is clearly more superior than others' anecdotal evidence.

Rows are a great back exercise, but nothing works your traps like weighted chins. Why not do both?

To OP: The advice on using a chair and/or doing negative reps is great. If your gym has a weight-assist machine, that can probably give you more assistance than the bands. Jumping chin-ups or negatives are just fine though, and will get you moving in the right direction! Just keep at it! It took me almost a year to be able to do body-weight chins when I started getting in shape, and I was pretty light (skinny-fat)... after a couple of years, I can now chin body-weight+75 pounds for reps! Just keep pushing and before you know it you'll be looking back and feeling AWESOME about how far you have come!