conflicting info from trainer...hmm

WeCallThemDayWalkers

OK... Saw a trainer tonight (after I had a rough experience with one this past weekend, another offered to take a look at my exercise/food diary and trouble shoot).

1. She says I'm eating too much protein and I should aim for about 15% of my macros as protein (about 65g) and that if I eat more protein it will be wasted as the body pushes out excess protein in urine, making basically expensive pee.

Thoughts? Rebuttals?

2. She also thinks I'm eating too many calories to lose weight and suggests 1600 with exercise (not eating back cals). Says my estimated BMR of 1550 is probably grossly overestimated and mine is likely more like 1300). Right now I've been doing about 1700-2000 which is what my "15% cut" range is, depending on activity level.

More thoughts? More rebuttals??

Anyone have similar interactions?

I am still more interested in the idea of getting my metabolism to a happier place, so...yeah. Just fishing for more info I guess.

LOL...by seeking answers it seems I find larger and larger knowledge gaps. HELP!

ANewLucia

Well, I can only tell you from my experience and training. I am currently going through PT cert myself and the materials I'm studying confirms what we are teaching here ( I started studying for cert after tons of research and starting the group). The book NROLWFW refutes that as well. Oh my on the protein, I'm floored bec protein is key for building and repairing and I see the diff in my body from time I upped my protien to an adequate intake. 15% is def too low.

I will say this, mainstream states eat less, burn more and lose weight. Why do so many regain? The statistics are staggering. Most all of us are here bec we believed what your trainer is teaching. It doesn't work for the long term. Matter of fact many hit plateau in the middle of weight loss get frustrated and give up.

The trainer says you BMR is probably lower...no your metabolism had to slow down to meet the reduced cals...a metabolic reset. BMR is an estimate when calculated and you could get it tested to be sure but I bet it is closer to the estimate than 130o is.

31prvrbs

As a trainer, I've made a couple of observations of how some (including myself) do things differently from most. Knowing the different types of trainers can help you to interview & pick the one that is best for you. I'll give you some examples:

My calorie recommendations are typically much higher. Having dug around and picked a few brains, I was able to find out why. Trainers know that they have a limited amount of time to make an impact on you. The client needs to see results, and they need to see it fast, or else they are quickly moving on. Most of the "stay the course" "be consistent" "trust the process" lines that I throw out there are not used in mainstream training, because, quite frankly, clients don't want to hear it :yawn: . A trainer that wants a client to keep coming back for more has to achieve a LOT in a small amount of time, or at least enough to make an impact. So they will do this by either working you very hard within the first session, so that you can see that you work much harder w/them, than you did before they came into the picture....or by telling you that your current cal intake (whatever it may be) is too high.

This lowering of cals is almost a guaranteed drop in lbs within the first week or so, simply because the cals were high, and now they're not. Having such a significant drop in lbs within the first week or so will buy you MUCH more time with that client, because you have "earned" their trust . If they can quickly get you to drop weight, then long after you've stopped going to them, and gained the weight back, (because you've gone back to eating "normal", and working out in your regular manner) you'll always remember how you had "better" results when you worked with them. And you'll go back (eating higher cals again) and they will have you drop them again, while kicking your butt w/the workouts. So as long as you stay w/them, and dependent on them, you both "win."

I don't knock the trainers that use this method, as it is, quite honestly, much more lucrative than my own training techniques, lol. But, ethically, I just can't do it. My goal as a trainer (and the type of trainer I suggest you look for when interviewing) is to allow a person to develop a plan of attack that will fit into their lives, and that will apply long after our session is over. A client needs to become self-sufficient, and know what to do when you are no longer around. I have no desire to "become" a persons fad diet. Although it's harder to look a client in the eye and tell them to do the opposite of everything that they read :huh: , and that they shouldn't expect any results from working w/me for at least the first month :noway: , it sets the standard for our relationship right off the bat. I let them know that I will not withold any "secrets" from them in what they need to reach their goals, my "tactics" are simple, fuel your body, work hard, and stay consistent.

The client needs to be committed to a lifestyle, not just trying to fit into their skinny jeans by next friday. There are enough trainers out there that can help them accomplish that, but I am trying to help them fit into their skinny jeans for the rest of their lives. They will leave our sessions armed w/info to help themselves and others around them. I may lose a bit more peeps that way, who aren't willing to wait, but that is fine, because I need to see that the person wants what I'm trying to give, with the same passion that I give it. Find a trainer that empowers you to make your own decisions in due time, and has former clients that have had long-term results, not just *fast* results..... unless that is what YOU want.


~~~~~~~~~

As for the protein....there's always a bit of debate on protein because studies have been shown to suggest various things. Some studies have shown that excess protein (in people who have impaired kidney function) that large amounts of protein add too much nitrogen excretion, thus increasing the kidneys workload. However, there is no good evidence of high protein diets being harmful for athletes with healthy kidneys. There is also concern about calcium loss w/high protein diets, but the amount of increased phosphate that comes with the increase in protein rich foods, would negate this effect. This is why you'll often hear me recommend that a majority of a person's protein comes from real food, as most of these studies are done on protein powders, etc, where the "protein" is removed from the food source.

The amount of protein that a person eats in relation to carbs is typically much lower, anyway, so most people are not in any real danger of excess protein, any more than they are of water overdose (which is also a real issue, though most of us never drink enough to get to that point).

The amount that you exercise also comes into play. The general population does just fine on .8g/lb body weight. The more that you work out, traditionally, the more is required. This is especially touted when it comes to athletes w/higher amounts of lean mass, (which requires more protein to build and maintain) as a small amount of protein is burned during physical activity.

The longer/more endurance exercise a person does, the more protein that gets used for energy (although endurance exercise begins as a glycogen/carb depleting exercise, it quickly moves to using protein for energy once glycogen levels are depleted). Exercise also causes muscle damage, which requires protein for tissue repair. Endurance exercise does cause more protein to be excreted from the urine, where typically there is none (which is why we often tell people to cut back on the cardio, or add more protein and drink more water to make up for what is being lost.)

So in some aspects, the trainer is correct... if you are a big cardio burn type, your carb needs are much higher, so that you "spare" your protein from being "wasted." This is why we don't recommend low carb diets, because then the carb/protein ratio is thrown off, and you are wasting a very "costly" fuel, the protein.


So if you were to hit .8-1g/lb of protein (depending on activity level), and kept your fats moderate (25-30% or so, again, depending on your body type & goals), then the rest of the cals would be allotted to carbs, which is more than enough in all areas. (which, btw, is the formula that I use for figuring out my own personal macros).

I tell you all this, so that you can make your own, thoroughly informed decision, because it is ultimately, your body & your journey, and only you can know what's best for you.

Sorry that turned into a super ramble, but, it does happen on occasion....guess you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and got caught up in the wrath of the "fingers of fury" :embarassed:


~Kiki

WeCallThemDayWalkers

I appreciate your fingers-of-fury post!

Very helpful. I'm definitely a knowledge seeker and so tend to get overloaded due to my efforts. I feel like I'm a little too obsessed with the whole weight-loss thing. Always thinking about it, planning, wondering.

For the protein, I think I'll keep aiming higher than her suggestion and just see how it all goes!

Hopefully, I will figure out exactly what is right for me and then I can "set it and forget it" lol.

The trainer told me "I've seen you in the weight room and you're always doing the same exercises" and I said, "well, yeah...I didn't think I'd get stronger unless I kept trying them".
Not sure that she'll conform to my wishes to help me learn to lift heavier weights with good form or if she'll try to set me up with some circuit training types of things.

I like the lifting, so I think I'd rather do that more than mountain climbers and burpees. Blargh.

sedosher

Kiki, I seriously would like to jump in your brain and swim around a while...even if that sounds weird! If you lived anywhere near me I'd be using you as a trainer in a heartbeat!!!

VVEXVVEX

Having decided to try EM2WL, one thing I am definitely NOT doing during this process is asking too many other people what they think. Because I know what I would have said a year ago to the idea of eating 1900 cals: NO WAY!

The only thing that matters is how my body responds, and that's a very individual thing, not a matter of a random trainer's opinion, my friends' opinions, or anything else.

I know what hasn't worked: 1200 net calories a day. I worked so freaking hard at that for so long and got absolutely NO RESULTS.

So I'm going to give this approach the time it deserves, and that means at least two to three months. Maybe more. I'm going to stay focused on the basics of what this involves: 1900 cals, hard workouts, get my protein.

Then I WILL DECIDE whether to continue.

Kooopons

Having decided to try EM2WL, one thing I am definitely NOT doing during this process is asking too many other people what they think. Because I know what I would have said a year ago to the idea of eating 1900 cals: NO WAY!

The only thing that matters is how my body responds, and that's a very individual thing, not a matter of a random trainer's opinion, my friends' opinions, or anything else.

I know what hasn't worked: 1200 net calories a day. I worked so freaking hard at that for so long and got absolutely NO RESULTS.

So I'm going to give this approach the time it deserves, and that means at least two to three months. Maybe more. I'm going to stay focused on the basics of what this involves: 1900 cals, hard workouts, get my protein.

Then I WILL DECIDE whether to continue.

Agreed! Too many cooks in the kitchen is not good! I'm staying the course and I'm confident in the science behind the facts presented on this board. I've been eating more since April 11 and have just started seeing inches lost. Pick a course and stick with it long enough to give it a fair evaluation. I've lost and gained so many times over the years that I'm confident the low cal rapid loss gig is NOT where it's at!

And as always, Kiki's "super rambles" are awesome!

AmyzNewGroove

Kiki, I seriously would like to jump in your brain and swim around a while...even if that sounds weird! If you lived anywhere near me I'd be using you as a trainer in a heartbeat!!!

Yeah, what she said!

AmyzNewGroove

Very helpful. I'm definitely a knowledge seeker and so tend to get overloaded due to my efforts. I feel like I'm a little too obsessed with the whole weight-loss thing. Always thinking about it, planning, wondering.

I'm with you on this, girl! It's so easy to become consumed by it all... I keep telling myself that there IS such a thing as TMI (and not just in the "oh wow, you really didn't need to tell me about your back hair" kinda way)... Daily struggle! Lol

twinmomtwice4

Kiki, I seriously would like to jump in your brain and swim around a while...even if that sounds weird! If you lived anywhere near me I'd be using you as a trainer in a heartbeat!!!

DITTO!!!!!!!!! I love the way you explain things...it makes perfect sense!

rotnkat

Bumping to read later because I'm suppose to be working, but..............

MichelleRenee13

I am seeing how it goes at about 15% protein. I struggle to reach that. I am a carb addict and a vegetarian and it can be difficult to reach the protein macro. This is a lifestlye change that you have to be able to maintain a lifetime....i can do that with my carbs. I don't see that happening on the protein front....maybe w/ protein shakes, but I don't like the ones I have tired nor do I want 200+ out of my 1700 calories to be from a protein shake.

I am hoping that this will work for me with the lower protein intake.

gemiwing

Kiki, I seriously would like to jump in your brain and swim around a while...even if that sounds weird! If you lived anywhere near me I'd be using you as a trainer in a heartbeat!!!

You and me both!

MichelleRenee13

If Kiki has a headache...that is me swimming around in her brain! ha!

nutritionwhiz

The amount that you exercise also comes into play. The general population does just fine on .8g/lb body weight.


~Kiki

Just wanted to clarify that you mean .8g per Kilogram of body weight. If you use lbs you should times your weight by .37

Zylayna

The amount that you exercise also comes into play. The general population does just fine on .8g/lb body weight.


~Kiki

Just wanted to clarify that you mean .8g per Kilogram of body weight. If you use lbs you should times your weight by .37

uh, oh...wait a sec...
I have my macros set to 40-30-30 (carb/protein/fat)
at 1gr/pound of body weight it works out the same (164 gr protein)
at 1 gr/kg of body weight I only need 75g for my 165lb body.

Which is it?? cause that's a BIG difference! or did I do my calculations wrong?

Kooopons

I have mine at 30% which for me works out to be about 1g/lb of body weight which is about where I want to be.

31prvrbs

Yes. I meant g/lb, not kg. that's the average recommended amount for moderately active (daily weight/aerobic training) person

RDA- recommends .36g/lb for sedentary adults

Athletes are anywhere from .8- 2g/lb (the higher end being an extreme competitor "two-a-day" type.)

WeCallThemDayWalkers

Sorry if I caused confusion!! My trainer person said ".8-1 g per kg"

Kiki and Co. use 1 g/LB.

I'd listed to Kiki and Co if you're confused.

Whoever said "Too many cooks in the kitchen" is right!! I need to stop digging and just DO.

Zylayna

Yes. I meant g/lb, not kg. that's the average recommended amount for moderately active (daily weight/aerobic training) person

RDA- recommends .36g/lb for sedentary adults

Athletes are anywhere from .8- 2g/lb (the higher end being an extreme competitor "two-a-day" type.)

ok, good. all is well in Macro land then. :happy:
thank-you!

smurfee11

Kiki, I seriously would like to jump in your brain and swim around a while...even if that sounds weird! If you lived anywhere near me I'd be using you as a trainer in a heartbeat!!!

Ditto.... awesome. I need you here working me out daily!!