Yoga

andrea9873

I started P90X this week and today's workout day 3 calls for Yoga.

While I've taken a few yoga classes in the past, even recently, it was advertised as Yoga for Runners.
I guess I just want to understand the reasons why I shouldn't participate in yoga. Is it true that yoga is used as prayer and a form of worship to false gods. What can I substitute the P90X Yoga with?

pumpkinoodle

No, yoga is totally fine for Catholics to do as long as we don't go off worshiping our Yoga instructors! Practicing yoga is viewed by the Catholic Church as a something to be used for therapeutic reasons and nothing more.

This article from the Catholic Digest explains this concept really well: http://www.catholicdigest.com/articles/newsletter/no_sub_ministry/2011/06-01/is-yoga-sinful

For the actual church doctrine called "Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on some aspects of Christian meditation" regarding this topic: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19891015_meditazione-cristiana_en.html

I just did Yoga this morning and praise our Lord for giving us another tool to be healthy!

grassette

Pumkinnoodle, while those are great documents that you list, Yoga within the church is quite controversial. You have those who practice yoga as Christian meditation, and those who severely criticize them. Priests from India, for example, have no illusions that Yoga opens you up to the occult, and see Yoga as a form of Hindu proselytizing in the West. They don't accept Christian yoga. Given their closeness to the source, I tend to trust them.

jerber160

i thought yoga was about breathing, stretching and posing????

CandiHurliman

To practice yoga is to practice a part of Hinduism. I have a hard time convincing people, but I know from personal experience that yoga and Christianity do not mix. There are plenty of exercises, including stretching exercises that one can do which will not compromise your Catholic faith. Please don't listen to pumpkin noodle.
My husband was a practicing Hindu for 20 years and had a guru, Gurumaya - http://www.siddhayoga.org/gurumayi-chidvilasananda She said "If you have Jesus stay with Jesus." I used to do yoga and it is not just breathing and stretching and posing, although many people want to pass it off as harmless.

pumpkinoodle

I guess it really depends on how you choose to interpret your beliefs.

The American Yoga Association says the common belief that Yoga derives from Hinduism is a misconception: http://www.americanyogaassociation.org/general.html (Under the Yoga & Religion section).

The Yoga Journal states the same thing. Yoga is not a religion: http://www.yogajournal.com/lifestyle/283

I've read exactly what the Vatican says on this issue here: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19891015_meditazione-cristiana_en.html

...and it seems to me that as long as you are practicing Yoga for exercise purposes, it's not sacrilegious.

I'm not intending to hurt anyone's feelings; just wanting to present information to help you make an informed decision on what you decide to do and how you decide to live out your faith.

:flowerforyou:

pumpkinoodle

Hi CandiHurliman: Wow! That is really interesting! Did he always practice with a Yoga Guru?

The type of yoga I do doesn't involve a guru. Do you think all yoga goes against the churches teachings or are some yoga styles harmless?

Just curious to know more of your thoughts. Thank you for sharing! Peace be with you

macpatti

The practice of yoga is a practice of Hinduism. If you want to do the breathing and exercising without the meditation the way It is intended, that's fine. Just be careful who is teaching your "yoga" class and what the goals and intentions are.

freder1ck

Yoga means yoke. Who or what are you meditating on to achieve union with? Whose yoke?

Wikipedia: "Yoga (Sanskrit, Pāli: योग, yoga) is the Hindu practice of physical, mental, and spiritual discipline, originating in ancient India.[1][2] The goal of yoga, or of the person practicing yoga, is the attainment of a state of perfect spiritual insight and tranquility while meditating on the Hindu concept of divinity or Brahman.[3] The word is associated with meditative practices in Hinduism, Jainism, and Buddhism.[4][5][6]"

The document written by Ratzinger makes some great points. http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19891015_meditazione-cristiana_en.html

27. Eastern Christian meditation32 has valued psychophysical symbolism, often absent in western forms of prayer. It can range from a specific bodily posture to the basic life functions, such as breathing or the beating of the heart. The exercise of the "Jesus Prayer," for example, which adapts itself to the natural rhythm of breathing can, at least for a certain time, be of real help to many people.33 On the other hand, the eastern masters themselves have also noted that not everyone is equally suited to making use of this symbolism, since not everybody is able to pass from the material sign to the spiritual reality that is being sought. Understood in an inadequate and incorrect way, the symbolism can even become an idol and thus an obstacle to the raising up of the spirit to God. To live out in one's prayer the full awareness of one's body as a symbol is even more difficult: it can degenerate into a cult of the body and can lead surreptitiously to considering all bodily sensations as spiritual experiences.

31. The love of God, the sole object of Christian contemplation, is a reality which cannot be "mastered" by any method or technique. On the contrary, we must always have our sights fixed on Jesus Christ, in whom God's love went to the cross for us and there assumed even the condition of estrangement from the Father.
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As for myself, I am not aware that 'exercise' has ever been a form of Christian asceticism. I see in myself and in others the risk of degenerating to a cult of the body— even more so in exercise that is practiced outside a particular spiritual tradition.

freder1ck

the other thing is that there's really two Yogas- the stretching and breathing one, yoga lite, if you will; and the other kind: the one with the kundalini serpent energy in the spinal column, for example. The lite kind I expect is not bad, and could be done alone or with a video. The other kind, the deeper and more authentic kind, can be pretty dangerous to attempt without a guru who knows what he's doing and who is an overall trustworthy person (to say nothing of the spiritual aspects).

jerber160

i have a friend who inspired me to join mfp by taking a 60 day yoga challenge, so I asked him his opinion.... here is his answer

In my reading/understanding of it, yoga itself is not a religious devotion. It's not dedicated to Krishna or Buddha or any other god. Rather, Hatha (physical) yoga is to prepare to the body to mediate/to worship.

Which gets into the more complicated history of things. The system of yoga is actually made up of 8 different limbs. However, in the United States, the yoga we talk about almost exclusively is the Hatha yoga: the physical poses used to condition, purify, and prepare the body for meditation and devotion.

There are 8 original Hatha yoga poses. These poses brought the muscles/bones into the proper alignment so that one could sit for extended periods of time and meditate. The master pose was lotus, which looks like a very crossed crossed-legged position. In this position, the lower body quickly loeses circulation, allowing the person to sit for a long time with no disturbance.

So, in the end, the hatha yoga is not the religious part of it. Rather, it's preparation for a religious/spiritual time.

And especially in the United States, we're focusing on only one limb of the yoga and not the larger system. It's the most accessible and adaptable (started with 8 poses, and at this point, every teacher has a different name/stye/set up/alignment for too many poses to count).

SO, that's my long-winded and hopefully coherent explanation!

pumpkinoodle

Wow! What great (and respectful) discussions! I hope this is helping you get some insights Andrea9873! Looks like this group is divided on the topic but at least you have more information to go off of. :happy:

macpatti

My understanding is that Yoga is an ancient practice, originating in Hindu culture (certainly far-eastern). The practice has a religious goal; it is not simply or merely a physical exercise. If the issue was only the physical movements, postures, stretching, exercise, etc., there would be no issue. The issue is that Yoga, is a religious practice that is designed to bring about a certain state of mind in harmony with one’s body and all of this is in the service of a Hindu outlook on reality. To the degree, then, that Christianity disagrees with the Hindu perspective on the world, it will also disagree with the practice of Yoga. If someone were to say, “I do Yoga just for the physical benefits but don’t pay attention to all the religious aspects of it,” I would probably find little to disagree with. If, on the other hand, a person buys into the religious meaning or goals of the practice I would have to disagree.

jerber160

The issue is that Yoga, is a religious practice that is designed to bring about a certain state of mind in harmony with one’s body and all of this is in the service of a Hindu outlook on reality.

can you please site some Hindu outlooks on reality that are evil ?

macpatti

can you please site some Hindu outlooks on reality that are evil ?

I never used the word evil. Hindu outlooks on reality differ from that of the Catholic church. Are you asking me to explain Hinduism?

jerber160

I never used the word evil. Hindu outlooks on reality differ from that of the Catholic church. Are you asking me to explain Hinduism?
[/quote]
I think I'm asking for aspects of hinduism or traits of people who practice it that would be offensive to Christians or undesirable to share. a solid healthy mind/body connection sounds healthy and desirable to me.

"outlooks on reality" is an interesting phrase.

just as an aside I'm not very big on the church's decree to proselytize. I am very big on the church's belief in free will.

macpatti

I certainly support a “healthy mind/body connection,” etc. A problem enters, however, when what constitutes “health” involves a whole religious/philosophical outlook that conflicts with Christian faith (at least for Christians this should be problematic). Hinduism (and far-eastern religions in general) see the sensory world (including the body) as an illusion of sorts (“maya”). Their meditative methods are intended to train the mind to gradually move towards overcoming that illusion and becoming “one” with the one supreme reality that is hidden behind the illusion of this sensory life. As a Christian, I believe that the sensory world is real and that the “Supreme One” (God) is other than this world (transcendent). In Hinduism, the supreme reality (Brahma) is in fact identical to ourselves but we have to come to see that through a gradual process of enlightenment. There are certainly good things that we can learn from all of this (especially ways of calming the mind, meditating, etc.) but there are also things to be concerned about. Yoga is a meditative practice during which the mind is largely passive and non-critical in respect to the implied philosophical and religious meanings of the practice. Under these conditions, then, it seems wise that a Christian not participate in full-blown Yoga practices. If there is a way to practical Yoga stripped of those meanings, I don’t see a problem with that.

bushidowoman

It seems to me that it's part of our Catholic heritage to adopt the practices of the religions around us and assign them new Christian meanings. Most of us think nothing about the fact that we chose the Winter Solstice as the time to celebrate the birth of Jesus. We continue to practice ancient customs of the Christmas season borrowed from other religions (the advent wreath and Christmas trees, for example). We merely assign them Christian symbolism and meanings, make our own prayers to go with them, and we're good to go. Same with Easter, All Saints' Day, etc. I've never been to a church yet that hasn't included an Easter egg hunt after Mass. Or trick-or-treating and jack-o-lanterns at our All Saints parties.
Even wedding bands have their origins in other religious belief and practice, yet we just give them Christian symbolism, have the priest bless them, and they become sacramentals.
So, I'm wondering, why it is sometimes OK to take practices from other religions, give them Christian meanings, and keep them...yet not OK to take helpful breathing and stretching exercises from another religion, drop the religious part of it, and maybe even do Christian meditations along with it?

macpatti

If a Christian celebrates Christmas or hunts for Easter eggs and believes some pagan ideas about those things, he would be guilty of idolatry or something of the sort. If a Christian celebrates Christmas out of respect for the birth of Christ and believes that by celebrating this event on a pagan feast of the Sun god he is showing the triumph of Christianity over paganism, I don’t have a problem with that. If a Christian “makes fun” of evil things on Halloween, that's one thing. If a Christian worships evil spirits or evil beings on Halloween, that is quite another. That takes us back to Yoga. If Yoga can be sufficiently distanced from embracing certain ideas that are contradictory to Christian faith, a Christian might be able to participate in it. Your last remarks suggest this and I’ve already indicated that potentially would be fine. I don’t know if it is still “Yoga,” though.

freder1ck

I don’t know if it is still “Yoga,” though.

exactly. Does sitting on crossed legs count?

jerber160

will try again.

macpatti

I'm not grasping the point of that article, probably because I cannot read it all. Do you have a link?

jerber160

From the new st. joseph's people's prayer book preceding the section of prayers titled prayers from other religions

ratsI still don't know how to resize pics properly.. this last paragraph reads: "the council stressed that "the Church rejects nothing which is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence...those teachings which, though differing in many respects from the ones she holds and sets fort, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all people"

macpatti

: "the council stressed that "the Church rejects nothing which is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence...those teachings which, though differing in many respects from the ones she holds and sets fort, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all people"

"Which is true and holy" being key words.

bushidowoman

I don’t know if it is still “Yoga,” though.

exactly. Does sitting on crossed legs count?

Maybe technically not Yoga...but it's easier to say "yoga" than "stretching and breathing exercises that are similar to yoga but with the religious aspect removed." One of these days, maybe we'll come up with our own name for it...problem solved...no more controversy.

jerber160

I'm wondering how naked yoga fits into this thread???

macpatti

I'm wondering how naked yoga fits into this thread???

These kinds of comments are better suited in the Chit-Chat, Fun and Games forum. I'm sure you'll get the response you were going for there.

jerber160

I'm wondering how naked yoga fits into this thread???

These kinds of comments are better suited in the Chit-Chat, Fun and Games forum. I'm sure you'll get the response you were going for there.

why??? what response did you assume I was 'going for?' I said it as a joke but naked yoga exists and hot yoga is big right now. (yoga at temperatures above 105 degrees: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikram_Yoga) I'm reading the discussion here as being about worshiping false gods...some seem to say yes, others no...but obviously it's possible to practice 'yoga' as an exercise form and not have to worry (be terrified really) about being seduced by satan to turn away from God. It's possible to practice yoga devoid of any spirituality. You may not want to name it 'true yoga' but for all intents and purposes, it's yoga-your body is moving and stretching and you're concentrating on breathing. Isn't that the point of the discussion? I don't think the OP should be terrified that PX90 will be responsible for her burning in hell for eternity.

macpatti

I don't think the OP should be terrified that PX90 will be responsible for her burning in hell for eternity.

I don't see where anyone made any such suggestion, and I doubt anyone in this group believes that. I was giving the Church's position on why yoga has not been recommended for Catholics in the past.

jerber160

I don't think the OP should be terrified that PX90 will be responsible for her burning in hell for eternity.

I don't see where anyone made any such suggestion, and I doubt anyone in this group believes that. I was giving the Church's position on why yoga has not been recommended for Catholics in the past.


[/ Is it true that yoga is used as prayer and a form of worship to false gods. ]

isn't that why the OP posted? she doesn't want to risk or sacrifice her immortal soul. the more i think about this thread the scarier it becomes.

macpatti

She asked if yoga was a practice of prayer to false gods and she got the history of yoga. We also explained that some "yoga" that is done now isn't the same as that religious practice. So, is yoga "bad" for Catholics? Answer: depends in how you're defining yoga and how it's being done.