What we are supposed to eat

Awkward30

The clean eating thread in the main forums brought up my least favorite argument in all of nutrition "clean eating is the way our bodies were meant to eat."

I hate arguments that center on what our bodies are "supposed" to have. That is an arbitrary definition. We are the ultimate omnivores, our bodies were made to be able to process whatever we give them! It's not like primitive men mindfully chose to skip the lean cuisine because they felt it would be healthier to hunt/gather... They didn't have the option and almost undoubtably would have been hard wired to pick the most calorically dense foods. Yeah, that's right, the reason so many people have trouble with junk food is that it is evolutionarily favorable for us to eat it. However since there is no longer a scarcity of food for most people, this tendency is just making us fat (note: I'm not absolving us of responsibility, what we eat and how much is squarely on our shoulders).

Anyone find this obnoxious also? Or think I just wrote a crock of dog poo?

jamk1446

The problem I see with the clean eating debate is that it only seems to center around calories and weight. There's much more to our health than just being at a healthy weight. Yes, we are adapted to eat a wide variety of things, that is definitely an evolutionary advantage. I don't think that means that all foods are equal and provide good health. I consider myself a clean eater and I can definitely tell the difference in how I feel depending on the quality of food I eat. I eat crap, then I feel like crap.

And then there's the debate of what is actually clean and what is not. For me, clean eating is minimal ingredient lists, avoiding artificial colors and trans fats, etc. But I have no problem with jarred spaghetti squash or frozen chicken breasts. Others feel that clean eating is only defined by fresh meats, fruits and vegetables. There's a lot of room for interpretation of "the rules".

While I consider myself a clean eater, this doesn't mean I don't occasionally indulge in something junky, I just try to keep it to a minimum. I think there can still be room in the diet for these things but when they begin to interfere with health, it's too much. And this is a highly individual process. I can't tolerate much artificial junk but others may.

Grimmerick

I think if you put a clean eating diet beside of diet laden with junk food on a regular basis that you will inevitably have more problems health wise with the latter.

On another note I also believe that having occasional junk food will not adversely affect your health.
But clean eating will definitely give you a better outcome healthwise than a diet made up of junk food.
I don't think our bodies are made to process whatever we give them, just because we can, doesn't mean we are meant to be that way or that it won't take a toll on our bodies or digestion after a period of time, also throw in genetics and the fact that some peoples bodies are more sensitive to things than others.

InnerFatGirl

I think there's a lot of things we're not really 'meant' to eat.

For one, I don't think we're supposed to have dairy past childhood, and DEFINITELY not cow's breastmilk. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the enzymes that digest lactose start to decline as we get older, and more and more people are developing lactose intolerance.

Cow's milk is 'designed' to get a baby calf to a large size in a relatively short space of time.

That's all I'm saying for now, I'm hungry!

UponThisRock

I agree. Throughout most of our history, we ate whatever happened to be available to us based on where we lived. We are in a unique place now, for the first time in our history, pretty much any type of food you might like to eat is readily available.

My problem with the term "clean" is that it's not useful to put such labels on foods outside the context of the overall diet. It's almost as though certain foods are "poison" and that eating any amount of ice cream, for example is "bad for you."

UponThisRock

I think there's a lot of things we're not really 'meant' to eat.

For one, I don't think we're supposed to have dairy past childhood, and DEFINITELY not cow's breastmilk. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the enzymes that digest lactose start to decline as we get older, and more and more people are developing lactose intolerance.

Cow's milk is 'designed' to get a baby calf to a large size in a relatively short space of time.

That's all I'm saying for now, I'm hungry!

Regardless of what cow's milk is "designed" to do, it doesn't have any magic powers outside of it's caloric content.

A lot of people are lactose intolerant to one degree or another, but for those of us that aren't, I say drink up.

opus649

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the enzymes that digest lactose start to decline as we get older, and more and more people are developing lactose intolerance.

Originally all humans were lactose intolerant. It is a mutation that allows people to continue processing lactose:

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/news/070401_lactose

A wonderful and delicious mutation IMHO

BrettPGH

I always laugh when people try to bring up the diet of primitive man, like it's anything you'd want to emulate.

Yes rip open a chicken or cow and just char every bit that's edible. Tell me how great your diet is.

This idea that people from long ago were smarter or healthier.. I don't know where it comes from (ok I do but that's a whole separate issue).

And anyone who says "Eww that has chemicals" is just dumb. Period.

jamk1446

And anyone who says "Eww that has chemicals" is just dumb. Period.

Hey! No ad hominem attacks!

So you really see no difference between say Cheddar cheese and nacho cheese sauce for example, which contains only minimal cheese but may include things like trans fat and yellow food dye, stabilizers and preservatives? I'm not saying there's no place for nacho cheese sauce in a person's diet but I just don't see how that these things are nutritionally equivalent. Calorically yes, but not nutritionally.

EvanKeel

And anyone who says "Eww that has chemicals" is just dumb. Period.

Hey! No ad hominem attacks!

So you really see no difference between say Cheddar cheese and nacho cheese sauce for example, which contains only minimal cheese but may include things like trans fat and yellow food dye, stabilizers and preservatives? I'm not saying there's no place for nacho cheese sauce in a person's diet but I just don't see how that these things are nutritionally equivalent. Calorically yes, but not nutritionally.

I think saying that they're nutritionally different is perhaps accurate, but often misread by a lot of people. I think people will frequently then come to the conclusion that the nacho cheese sauce should never be eaten because it's inferior.

When it comes to clean eating, or any other prescriptive diet, I always tell myself that I can eat whatever I want if I can deal with the consequences. So far I haven't found a compelling reason to rule out nacho cheez (note the spelling) sauce as an option. I have found a compelling reason to rule out clams--I'm allergic to them. It's all about cause and effect; we can keep the labels, like "clean" to ourselves because they really just end up being marketing campaigns.

jamk1446

I think saying that they're nutritionally different is perhaps accurate, but often misread by a lot of people. I think people will frequently then come to the conclusion that the nacho cheese sauce should never be eaten because it's inferior.

This is true but it also seems the other side will not acknowledge that there is a nutritional difference which in turn can lead to a difference in health if not weight. As with so many other issues, this ends up being a black and white debate when really the ideal diet is a different shade of gray for everyone.

When it comes to clean eating, or any other prescriptive diet, I always tell myself that I can eat whatever I want if I can deal with the consequences.

Though I endorse a mostly whole foods diet, this is actually my philosophy too, I just seem to suffer consequences from a lot of foods. I'll probably never eat M & M's again because it's not worth a 3 day migraine from the food dyes. I don't feel the need to eat M & M's all the time but it makes me sad I'll probably never have them again.

tsh0ck

clean? sure. I clean all of my food that needs it. but don't wash mushrooms -- they won't cook up right if you do!

InnerFatGirl

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the enzymes that digest lactose start to decline as we get older, and more and more people are developing lactose intolerance.

Originally all humans were lactose intolerant. It is a mutation that allows people to continue processing lactose:

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/news/070401_lactose

A wonderful and delicious mutation IMHO

Very interesting...

InnerFatGirl

I think there's a lot of things we're not really 'meant' to eat.

For one, I don't think we're supposed to have dairy past childhood, and DEFINITELY not cow's breastmilk. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the enzymes that digest lactose start to decline as we get older, and more and more people are developing lactose intolerance.

Cow's milk is 'designed' to get a baby calf to a large size in a relatively short space of time.

That's all I'm saying for now, I'm hungry!

Regardless of what cow's milk is "designed" to do, it doesn't have any magic powers outside of it's caloric content.

A lot of people are lactose intolerant to one degree or another, but for those of us that aren't, I say drink up.

Apart from the ethics of milk production, I didn't say people shouldn't drink it.

But I still don't think we're 'meant' to drink it any more than I think we're meant to drink feline breastmilk.

Ocarina

I think there's a lot of things we're not really 'meant' to eat.

For one, I don't think we're supposed to have dairy past childhood, and DEFINITELY not cow's breastmilk. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the enzymes that digest lactose start to decline as we get older, and more and more people are developing lactose intolerance.

Cow's milk is 'designed' to get a baby calf to a large size in a relatively short space of time.

That's all I'm saying for now, I'm hungry!

Haha I completely and utterly agree. I think its gnarly to drink another animals milk and also that we are the only species on earth that drinks milk past infancy. :sick:

I think I am better off enjoying my almond milk lol

InnerFatGirl

I think there's a lot of things we're not really 'meant' to eat.

For one, I don't think we're supposed to have dairy past childhood, and DEFINITELY not cow's breastmilk. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the enzymes that digest lactose start to decline as we get older, and more and more people are developing lactose intolerance.

Cow's milk is 'designed' to get a baby calf to a large size in a relatively short space of time.

That's all I'm saying for now, I'm hungry!

Haha I completely and utterly agree. I think its gnarly to drink another animals milk and also that we are the only species on earth that drinks milk past infancy. :sick:

I think I am better off enjoying my almond milk lol

Agreed.

I aim to become a vegan, but I am a slave to dairy I am a vegetarian, though, so 1/4 of the way there!

Azdak

The problem with food debates is that it is difficult to get decent research that can control variables and provide clear guidelines. The result is a mixing of psychology and emotion with fact that often results in gibberish. I grew up in the 1960s and there was no limit to the cockamame emotional nonsense people would attribute to food.

To me, the information is there that suggests that there are multiple ways to eat healthy, but there is little research that indicates that there is one "superior" diet that everyone should subscribe to. My general rule of thumb is that the more someone feels it necessary to "preach" about their particluar diet, the more likely their food choices are based on as much emotion as fact.

Ocarina

I think what we are meant to eat is unprocessed clean food. It's whatever makes your body feel good, your cholesterol low, blood sugar happy, and make you feel energetic. We are also sometimes allergic to certain things or despise the texture/taste/smell of certain foods so you won't eat that stuff.

I really think its a completely individual thing and your body knows best.

UponThisRock

Haha I completely and utterly agree. I think its gnarly to drink another animals milk and also that we are the only species on earth that drinks milk past infancy. :sick:

We're also the only species that has the ability to get milk from another species.

As far as what other animals would do if given the opportunity...have you ever put dish of milk in front of a cat?

BrettPGH

And anyone who says "Eww that has chemicals" is just dumb. Period.

Hey! No ad hominem attacks!

So you really see no difference between say Cheddar cheese and nacho cheese sauce for example, which contains only minimal cheese but may include things like trans fat and yellow food dye, stabilizers and preservatives? I'm not saying there's no place for nacho cheese sauce in a person's diet but I just don't see how that these things are nutritionally equivalent. Calorically yes, but not nutritionally.

Not in relation to what I said about foods having chemicals. Because cheddar cheese is made up of chemicals and nacho cheese is made up of chemicals. Spray cheese from a can is made up of chemicals and the people that eat all of these foods are made up of chemicals.

The fact that people use the word "chemicals" when they mean "refined, processed foods" is what makes me think they're dumb.

UponThisRock

The fact that people use the word "chemicals" when they mean "refined, processed foods" is what makes me think they're dumb.

Too much carbon will kill you.

jamk1446

Not in relation to what I said about foods having chemicals. Because cheddar cheese is made up of chemicals and nacho cheese is made up of chemicals. Spray cheese from a can is made up of chemicals and the people that eat all of these foods are made up of chemicals.

The fact that people use the word "chemicals" when they mean "refined, processed foods" is what makes me think they're dumb.

This seems like semantics to me. I've seen clean eaters say "I avoid refined processed foods" and then plenty of people in the IIFYM camp come back with "define processed" or "everything is processed, your point is invalid" when they know perfectly good and well the type of foods that are being referenced.

UponThisRock

Not in relation to what I said about foods having chemicals. Because cheddar cheese is made up of chemicals and nacho cheese is made up of chemicals. Spray cheese from a can is made up of chemicals and the people that eat all of these foods are made up of chemicals.

The fact that people use the word "chemicals" when they mean "refined, processed foods" is what makes me think they're dumb.

This seems like semantics to me. I've seen clean eaters say "I avoid refined processed foods" and then plenty of people in the IIFYM camp come back with "define processed" or "everything is processed, your point is invalid" when they know perfectly good and well the type of foods that are being referenced.

Whey protein?

BrettPGH

Not in relation to what I said about foods having chemicals. Because cheddar cheese is made up of chemicals and nacho cheese is made up of chemicals. Spray cheese from a can is made up of chemicals and the people that eat all of these foods are made up of chemicals.

The fact that people use the word "chemicals" when they mean "refined, processed foods" is what makes me think they're dumb.

This seems like semantics to me. I've seen clean eaters say "I avoid refined processed foods" and then plenty of people in the IIFYM camp come back with "define processed" or "everything is processed, your point is invalid" when they know perfectly good and well the type of foods that are being referenced.

Of course it's semantics. Semantics are kind of important when we're trying to define things. It's not my fault "clean eaters" use such vague and uninformed diet plans. I saw a paleo advocate just yesterday saying how Tequila falls under his primitive man diet plan. That's just stupid, if the diet you tout is supposed to be eating only foods that Paleolithic man ate.

The problem is not me, I'm not being uptight. "Chemicals" does not mean what they think it does. I've seen people bragging about eating clean and avoiding chemicals all the time around here. They have no idea what they're talking about. That's why I think they're dumb.

Example:
-I never touch meat. I think it's disgusting. Why would anyone do that to themelves?
-You're eating a steak right now.
-Duh! I mean ground beef! You know what I was saying.

jamk1446

Whey protein?

:laugh:

Yes, precisely.

jamk1446

Of course it's semantics. Semantics are kind of important when we're trying to define things. It's not my fault "clean eaters" use such vague and uninformed diet plans. I saw a paleo advocate just yesterday saying how Tequila falls under his primitive man diet plan. That's just stupid, if the diet you tout is supposed to be eating only foods that Paleolithic man ate.

I can't disagree with this! This is why I'd like to avoid a label altogether. But I still think good nutrition is still important.

InnerFatGirl

Haha I completely and utterly agree. I think its gnarly to drink another animals milk and also that we are the only species on earth that drinks milk past infancy. :sick:

We're also the only species that has the ability to get milk from another species.

As far as what other animals would do if given the opportunity...have you ever put dish of milk in front of a cat?

Other species can still get milk from other species.

Yes, I have. My dog will drink any milk. Doesn't mean a dog is supposed to drink cat's milk their whole life.

futiledevices

I don't think there is any "supposed." Seems like an odd term to use.. assumes that there is some kind of plan or that we are programmed to eat certain things. Yes, there are things that we cannot digest, but that's just part of evolution. We have evolved to a point where we consume milk all our lives.. but.. so?

debussyschild

Yeah, that's right, the reason so many people have trouble with junk food is that it is evolutionarily favorable for us to eat it. However since there is no longer a scarcity of food for most people, this tendency is just making us fat (note: I'm not absolving us of responsibility, what we eat and how much is squarely on our shoulders).

I think you're absolutely right on point. Personally, I like the idea of clean eating because I'm not a fan of hydrogenated oils or other types of HIGHLY processed foods. I go for foods that have been minimally processed. I know our bodies can handle them, of course they can, but I prefer more natural stuff since it just tastes better to me. I think that our bodies can handle processed foods just fine. It's when we forget how calorically dense they are and eat them all the time that they begin to become a problem for our health i.e. unnecessary weight gain. If self-control prevails, then you can eat whatever you want and still lose weight. It's all about that caloric deficit, am I right? I really think the divide on the issue stems from one's own personal reasons for weight loss/gain and exercise/weight training. Some people want to live the clean lifestyle, others want results but would rather keep their burgers and fries. To each their own. As long as you're reaching your goals in a healthy way, more power to you.

edit b/c my grammar sucked.

debussyschild

I think what we are meant to eat is unprocessed clean food. It's whatever makes your body feel good, your cholesterol low, blood sugar happy, and make you feel energetic. We are also sometimes allergic to certain things or despise the texture/taste/smell of certain foods so you won't eat that stuff.

I really think its a completely individual thing and your body knows best.

Just to play devil's advocate for a split second... Personally, I believe that we were meant to eat whatever we can actually get our hands on that will sustain us. The only other essential item is water. As long as it has calories, you will survive on it. You may be malnourished, but you can survive. Without key vitamins and minerals such as iron, sodium, calcium, magnesium, vitamin C, etc. our bodies and brains won't function optimally and micronutrient deficiencies can lead to a wide variety of disorders. With all of that said, however, all you really need are some combo of the 3 macros and you're good. To a point, of course.

TheRoadDog

"I hate arguments that center on what our bodies are "supposed" to have."

Isn't this the Debate Board? Irony.