Adrenal Stress and Fatigue
tecallahan
Posts: 732 Member
I just got back from a visit with my Naturopath to go over recent lab work on my thyroid and adrenals.
As you may have guessed from my posts, I am a very type-A person. I am goal oriented and driven. I exercise like a fiend because I know if I stop I won't be able to start again! I'll be 60 years old next month, but not really accepting that! :blushing:
Anyway, given how much I exercise, the fact that I have horrific insomnia, etc. my ND was pretty sure I would have high levels of cortisol. As it turns out, my cortisol levels are flat lined and very, very low. You are supposed to have the most cortisol first thing in the morning and then a gradual lessening of cortisol up until bedtime -- then you go to sleep and start building cortisol for the next day. This all happens in the adrenals. But my cortisol levels are the same all day long - they never go up or down and they are far below normal.
So - my T3 levels are almost perfect, but my T4 and TSH levels look like I am very hypo - TSH is 18.7. The reason my T3 looks normal is because it is "pooling" - meaning, it is floating around and not being used by my cells. And that's because of my low cortisol levels.
Adrenals are heavily connected to thyroid. So, even if your thyroid levels look good, you could still have hypothyroid symptoms if your adrenals are not optimized.
He is going to try to treat my adrenals "naturally" -- he's a Naturopath! So, we will start with some Chinese herbs and ginseng to gently support my adrenals and see if we can get the levels up that way. He's not asking me to stop exercising - good thing, 'cause I ain't doing that!!
I'm also going to do a 28 day toxin detox -- it's called Metagenics. Not low calorie necessarily, but it omits a lot of foods that cause me to hold on to toxins from the environment - so it's a very "clean" food diet - close to what I am eating now, except no meat and none of my beloved veggie protein. No caffeine, no dairy and no eggs. Strange, but no oranges either. No pre-packaged condiments like mustard, ketchup, no corn or corn products, etc. So, I guess my diary will look weird starting on Monday!
Hypo/hashi friends - I urge you to get educated about your thyroid -- doctors led me around by my nose for 15 years -- and the results of taking Synthroid for 15 years is what I am experiencing now. Synthroid made my TSH look great -- all the while, my metabolism was deterioriating and my adrenals were stressing trying to keep everything going. Now, it has all come to the end - and all could have prevented 15 years ago.
Terri
As you may have guessed from my posts, I am a very type-A person. I am goal oriented and driven. I exercise like a fiend because I know if I stop I won't be able to start again! I'll be 60 years old next month, but not really accepting that! :blushing:
Anyway, given how much I exercise, the fact that I have horrific insomnia, etc. my ND was pretty sure I would have high levels of cortisol. As it turns out, my cortisol levels are flat lined and very, very low. You are supposed to have the most cortisol first thing in the morning and then a gradual lessening of cortisol up until bedtime -- then you go to sleep and start building cortisol for the next day. This all happens in the adrenals. But my cortisol levels are the same all day long - they never go up or down and they are far below normal.
So - my T3 levels are almost perfect, but my T4 and TSH levels look like I am very hypo - TSH is 18.7. The reason my T3 looks normal is because it is "pooling" - meaning, it is floating around and not being used by my cells. And that's because of my low cortisol levels.
Adrenals are heavily connected to thyroid. So, even if your thyroid levels look good, you could still have hypothyroid symptoms if your adrenals are not optimized.
He is going to try to treat my adrenals "naturally" -- he's a Naturopath! So, we will start with some Chinese herbs and ginseng to gently support my adrenals and see if we can get the levels up that way. He's not asking me to stop exercising - good thing, 'cause I ain't doing that!!
I'm also going to do a 28 day toxin detox -- it's called Metagenics. Not low calorie necessarily, but it omits a lot of foods that cause me to hold on to toxins from the environment - so it's a very "clean" food diet - close to what I am eating now, except no meat and none of my beloved veggie protein. No caffeine, no dairy and no eggs. Strange, but no oranges either. No pre-packaged condiments like mustard, ketchup, no corn or corn products, etc. So, I guess my diary will look weird starting on Monday!
Hypo/hashi friends - I urge you to get educated about your thyroid -- doctors led me around by my nose for 15 years -- and the results of taking Synthroid for 15 years is what I am experiencing now. Synthroid made my TSH look great -- all the while, my metabolism was deterioriating and my adrenals were stressing trying to keep everything going. Now, it has all come to the end - and all could have prevented 15 years ago.
Terri
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Replies
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Wow, interesting. I'd be a gonner if I had to quit my coffee... poor you!0
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Thanks for the update!
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Thanks for keeping us in the loop. I really hope you get this handled SOON.0
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My nutritionist had me on Metagenics as well but I was put on a gluten free, soy free, dairy free diet. I eat a lot of fruits, vegetables, and meat, and drink nothing but water or coconut water. It has been successful.0
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My nutritionist had me on Metagenics as well but I was put on a gluten free, soy free, dairy free diet. I eat a lot of fruits, vegetables, and meat, and drink nothing but water or coconut water. It has been successful.
Thank you! I've been gluten free and soy free for about 6 months -- and mostly dairy free also. So, the Metagenics might not be too much of a shock for me. I already was eating pretty clean - but the food elimination might help.
Thanks!0 -
I want to make sure as many of you as possible understand why your thyroid may not be working right even though your levels are "normal". I know this seems overwhelming, but I tried to make it as simple as possible. I see so many people on this forum who don't understand why they don't lose weight when hypo -- and this is why.
When you have hypothyroidism, your metabolism runs extremely slow -- your thyroid is the ringmaster of the metabolism affecting cholesterol, blood pressure, etc. If your thyroid was normal, it would produce Free T4 -- which can float around waiting until you need it. When you need it, it would convert the Free T4 to T3. Then T3 needs to get into the cells - every cell in your body uses T3 - even your brain. That's why, if you are hypo you get brain fog, dry skin, brittle nails and hair, muscle aches, etc. -- because all those cells need T3 to function.
There are two things that I know of that can keep the T3 out of your cells - there could be more, but this is what I know:
1. Reverse T3 - This is a "blank" of T3 - it plugs up the cell and doesn't allow the real T3 to get in. It does that because of stress usually, or to keep you from burning too many calories. If you exercise intensely and don't eat right, Reverse T3 will prevent you from burning calories by plugging up the cells so that they don't burn any calories.
2. Adrenal Fatigue - when you are hypo, your adrenals try to make up for what is lacking in your metabolism so that you can keep going. They will produce too much cortisol (resulting in belly fat) until they go into fatigue and produce too little cortisol. Here's the crazy part - cortisol is needed in order for the T3 to get into your cells. So, if you don't have enough cortisol, it doesn't matter how much T3 you have, you are still hypothyroid.0 -
This is very familiar territory. I'm glad you're going ahead to learn about it for me :laugh:
You should only have another week or so to go, huh?
I'm not doing too well on cutting back on the coffee. Seem to be getting more "symptoms" back daily. :frown:
Are you feeling any better yet?0 -
Good Luck to you Terri!0
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I'm feeling a little better, but had to cut back again on intense exercise (like running)... so, I just have to be patient and let my adrenals heal - the Chinese Herbs I am taking are pretty amazing - give me lots of energy and a sense of well-being. My ND mixes them himself -- sometimes I wonder if he's practicing witchcraft!
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That's great Terri! :flowerforyou:
So glad you're feeling better. Did the ND tell you not to do hard exercise? I've been reading that it isn't good for thyroid. Gotta find a balance somewhere! :ohwell:0 -
That's great Terri! :flowerforyou:
So glad you're feeling better. Did the ND tell you not to do hard exercise? I've been reading that it isn't good for thyroid. Gotta find a balance somewhere! :ohwell:
That makes sense since - even though exercise is good for you - it's also stressful on the body. I lost 37 pounds and was exercising HARD and couldn't figure out why I felt worse now than when I started. I'm glad to have found this thread and group. Maybe I can start to make some sense of it all now!0 -
Hi Peasantgirly,
Same thing happened to me! I am glad I did the exercise & lost the wt. but it was baffling that I didn't feel terrific, they way I should with doing the exercise... just felt more & more exhausted. Still trying to get the meds figured out.
Here's that part of the article that has me wondering...(http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/thyroid/overview.php)
Effects of TH Imbalance: Hypothyroidism
Some of the most profound effects of TH imbalance are in the mental arena. Hypothyroid people sleep easily and do not get full refreshment from their sleep. During waking hours, they experience fatigue, apathy, and "brain fog" (short-term memory problems and attention deficits). These problems may affect their daily functioning and cause increased stress and depression.
TH acts as a neurotransmitter. TH imbalance can mimic psychiatric disease because T3 influences levels of serotonin, a neurotransmitter integral to moods and behavior. Low levels of T3 can cause depression. Some anti-depressants make hypothyroid patients feel even worse because the medications depress T3 levels. Paradoxically, some substances labelled depressants such as alcohol or opiates can increase T3 levels by impairing the breakdown of T3 in the brain, thus lifting mood. This may be one reason why these substances are so addictive.
Severe hypothyroidism can cause symptoms similar to Alzheimer's disease: memory loss, confusion, slowness, paranoid depression, and in extreme stages, hallucinations. Thyroid disease is one of the many treatable diseases that must be ruled out before arriving at the diagnosis of Alzheimer's, which is incurable and cannot be definitely diagnosed until after death. Risk of hypothyroidism increases with age; by age 60, 17% of women and 9% of men have symptoms of thyroid disease1 .
Low TH levels also produce fatigue, slight hypoglycemia (low blood sugar), slowed digestion of food, and constipation. Infertility is common. These symptoms can indicate that other diseases are present, particularly because TH levels tend to go down during prolonged illness in an effort to conserve energy. Chronic disease, such as Lyme disease, can mimic (or cause) hypothyroidism. Hypothyroidism is not difficult to diagnose by symptoms, if the patient reports enough symptoms to the doctor and if the doctor thinks of it. Diagnosis can be confirmed by blood tests, but the cause is less easy to discern.
TH imbalance has a profound effect on cardiovascular fitness because TH helps control heart rate and blood pressure. Under hypothyroid conditions, the heart can slow to 30 heart beats a minute and develop arrhythmia. Blood pressure may fall from normal levels of 120/90 to 70/50. Hypothyroidism also weakens muscles, including the diaphragm. As a result, breathing can become less efficient. A goiter impairs breathing even more. Snoring may start or become worse. Fatigue sets in easily; in fact it never quite leaves a person with symptomatic hypothyroidism. Muscles and joints often ache. With respiration impaired and oxygen in short supply, exercise takes a heavy toll on the body, and muscles do not strengthen in response to exercise; nor does stamina improve.
**Low thyroid levels actually trigger muscle fibers to change their type, from fast-twitch fibers to slow-twitch fibers. This may be an adaptive strategy for coping with starvation, since blood sugar is low under hypothyroid conditions and fast-twitch muscle fibers require high levels of glucose to operate. Fatty acid levels in the blood are elevated to provide fuel for the fat-burning slow-twitch muscles. However, low oxygen in the blood due to slow heart rate and respiratory problems limits the slow-twitch muscles' effectiveness.
Even after receiving treatment for hypothyroidism, many people find that their caloric needs and ability to handle exercise have changed permanently. Strength training can help restore their fitness, but only after thyroid hormone levels have normalized. Therefore, hypothyroidism affects the ability of people to undergo both aerobic and anaerobic exercise.0 -
Wow, so interesting and educational, I go back to the NP later this month after another round to testing, it will be interesting to see if there has been any change. Thanks for posting all this information and good luck on your detox.0
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Hi Peasantgirly,
Same thing happened to me! I am glad I did the exercise & lost the wt. but it was baffling that I didn't feel terrific, they way I should with doing the exercise... just felt more & more exhausted. Still trying to get the meds figured out.
Here's that part of the article that has me wondering...(http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/thyroid/overview.php)
Effects of TH Imbalance: Hypothyroidism
Some of the most profound effects of TH imbalance are in the mental arena. Hypothyroid people sleep easily and do not get full refreshment from their sleep. During waking hours, they experience fatigue, apathy, and "brain fog" (short-term memory problems and attention deficits). These problems may affect their daily functioning and cause increased stress and depression.
TH acts as a neurotransmitter. TH imbalance can mimic psychiatric disease because T3 influences levels of serotonin, a neurotransmitter integral to moods and behavior. Low levels of T3 can cause depression. Some anti-depressants make hypothyroid patients feel even worse because the medications depress T3 levels. Paradoxically, some substances labelled depressants such as alcohol or opiates can increase T3 levels by impairing the breakdown of T3 in the brain, thus lifting mood. This may be one reason why these substances are so addictive.
Severe hypothyroidism can cause symptoms similar to Alzheimer's disease: memory loss, confusion, slowness, paranoid depression, and in extreme stages, hallucinations. Thyroid disease is one of the many treatable diseases that must be ruled out before arriving at the diagnosis of Alzheimer's, which is incurable and cannot be definitely diagnosed until after death. Risk of hypothyroidism increases with age; by age 60, 17% of women and 9% of men have symptoms of thyroid disease1 .
Low TH levels also produce fatigue, slight hypoglycemia (low blood sugar), slowed digestion of food, and constipation. Infertility is common. These symptoms can indicate that other diseases are present, particularly because TH levels tend to go down during prolonged illness in an effort to conserve energy. Chronic disease, such as Lyme disease, can mimic (or cause) hypothyroidism. Hypothyroidism is not difficult to diagnose by symptoms, if the patient reports enough symptoms to the doctor and if the doctor thinks of it. Diagnosis can be confirmed by blood tests, but the cause is less easy to discern.
TH imbalance has a profound effect on cardiovascular fitness because TH helps control heart rate and blood pressure. Under hypothyroid conditions, the heart can slow to 30 heart beats a minute and develop arrhythmia. Blood pressure may fall from normal levels of 120/90 to 70/50. Hypothyroidism also weakens muscles, including the diaphragm. As a result, breathing can become less efficient. A goiter impairs breathing even more. Snoring may start or become worse. Fatigue sets in easily; in fact it never quite leaves a person with symptomatic hypothyroidism. Muscles and joints often ache. With respiration impaired and oxygen in short supply, exercise takes a heavy toll on the body, and muscles do not strengthen in response to exercise; nor does stamina improve.
**Low thyroid levels actually trigger muscle fibers to change their type, from fast-twitch fibers to slow-twitch fibers. This may be an adaptive strategy for coping with starvation, since blood sugar is low under hypothyroid conditions and fast-twitch muscle fibers require high levels of glucose to operate. Fatty acid levels in the blood are elevated to provide fuel for the fat-burning slow-twitch muscles. However, low oxygen in the blood due to slow heart rate and respiratory problems limits the slow-twitch muscles' effectiveness.
Even after receiving treatment for hypothyroidism, many people find that their caloric needs and ability to handle exercise have changed permanently. Strength training can help restore their fitness, but only after thyroid hormone levels have normalized. Therefore, hypothyroidism affects the ability of people to undergo both aerobic and anaerobic exercise.
Super interesting....but kind depressing
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bumping for later....0
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I had my appointment with the NP. She had the results of my saliva test. My Cortisol level was 2.7 in the AM. Rather then test it through-out the day we opted to treat it with Isocort, starting out with a minimal dose & raising it till I feel "normal" as she said. She believes it will do the trick, along with getting the Natural thyroid dose stablized.
Can you believe I forgot to ask if I can have back some of my foods?! :noway: Ugh!0 -
I also have adrenal fatigue. My morning saliva test was below range! I really think this is what caused my hypo. Because I never had any side effects of hypo when dx in November. Since going on meds its been hell because if the adreanal issue I had to test for myself. I am now on T3 only meds because I have a RT3 issue. I have been taking my T3 before waking for the day to help repair my adrenals. It is working for MANY of us. Here is the link for more info: And some are doing it using NDT meds.:
http://recoveringwitht3.com/
Look at the success stories regarding healing the adrenals. Also, Stop the Thyroid Madness is very helpful too. There is a FaceBook and Yahoo Groups for the CT3M (Circadian T3 Method) protocol.0 -
I want to make sure as many of you as possible understand why your thyroid may not be working right even though your levels are "normal". I know this seems overwhelming, but I tried to make it as simple as possible. I see so many people on this forum who don't understand why they don't lose weight when hypo -- and this is why.
When you have hypothyroidism, your metabolism runs extremely slow -- your thyroid is the ringmaster of the metabolism affecting cholesterol, blood pressure, etc. If your thyroid was normal, it would produce Free T4 -- which can float around waiting until you need it. When you need it, it would convert the Free T4 to T3. Then T3 needs to get into the cells - every cell in your body uses T3 - even your brain. That's why, if you are hypo you get brain fog, dry skin, brittle nails and hair, muscle aches, etc. -- because all those cells need T3 to function.
There are two things that I know of that can keep the T3 out of your cells - there could be more, but this is what I know:
1. Reverse T3 - This is a "blank" of T3 - it plugs up the cell and doesn't allow the real T3 to get in. It does that because of stress usually, or to keep you from burning too many calories. If you exercise intensely and don't eat right, Reverse T3 will prevent you from burning calories by plugging up the cells so that they don't burn any calories.
2. Adrenal Fatigue - when you are hypo, your adrenals try to make up for what is lacking in your metabolism so that you can keep going. They will produce too much cortisol (resulting in belly fat) until they go into fatigue and produce too little cortisol. Here's the crazy part - cortisol is needed in order for the T3 to get into your cells. So, if you don't have enough cortisol, it doesn't matter how much T3 you have, you are still hypothyroid.
This ^^^
Thank You for explaining this in terms I can understand. I not only battle fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, recently discovered lymphedema swells my arms and ankles up with just the slightest exercise. (blockage in lymphatic system,no known cause or cure) I must eat every 3 hours because of severe consequences of hypoglycemia if do not eat. 20 years I go I was diagnosed as hypothyroidism, along with adrenal gland fatigue. I also have with heart issues. I cannot exercise due to spine issues the only relief of pain is laying in bed flat on my stomach. MFP does not take into consideration when they give us set BMR calorie goals people who are bed bound the majority of the time are not burning calories even as much as sedentary. I do not know how many calories to deduct because of my health issues. If anyone has figured out the calorie goal for people on bed rest please email me.
The only way I have succeeded in losing weight is low carb with hypothyroidism. I combine low carb and low calorie of 1200 and still the weight loss is sooooo slow. It gets discouraging to see others lose weight so easily by cutting calories but I keep on keeping on my eating program since March 8.
I am carb and calorie cycling now so my body does not think it can get away with functioning on low calorie by slowing down my metabolism even more. I carb cycle from 1200 to 1650 much lower than my BMR. I am experimenting with calorie goals because with hypothyroidism I really do not know how low to set the calorie goal. I know I feel like i am starving on 1200 and this increases the cortisone stress level but I am at a loss the amount of calories someone with my health issues are to make as a goal.
I do not take any medication for hypothyroidism since 12 years on synthyroid was up to 5 tablets a day. I started with 1 small yellow pill of synthyroid 20 years ago and it would work for 6 months and had to have it increased. My thyroid issues went from over active to under active. I do not go to the Doctors anymore and decided to go the homeopathic route. I have been taking Raw Bovine thyroid from Natural Sources, as well as Raw bovine Adrenal gland but I stopped because I had no changed results. The best part about MFP is, it is good to know we are not the only one with the same health struggles.
I am so grateful for MFP because I have the most loving,caring, supportive MFP Friends and their encouragement has kept me from not giving up.
Big shout out of Group hug to over 100 beloved MFP Friends, you know who you are.
Thank You OP for this Post. Anyone who identifies with what I have written feel free to send me a friend invite. 0 -
Bump - need to read this later0
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I'm very interested in asking my doc about this when I see her in Nov. Wondering if this is why meds only make me feel ok for a while. Thanks for the post!0
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Bump to read later.0
