An atheist living without purpose

adamsurpren

Hi all,

For starters, I hope I can post this here. It has nothing to do with fitness or being an atheist and fit. It's all about living as an atheist. And I hope you all can accomodate, help, reason and quesiton with me.

Second, I have been an atheist now for a little over 2 years. I lost my faith after my short military career. My brother and father are also atheists. I am also not depressed and live a fully functioning life. Job, friends, boyfriend, hobbies...all that glory. I live happy.

Okay here we go. I am trying to understand the point of living as an atheist. Don't get me wrong, I love my bumper stickers, crossing out 'god' on the back of money, arguing with theists, reasoning, thinking, debating and challenging the general consensus. Dawkins, Hitchens, Silverman; I could listen to those guys all day. But I just don't understand why we do it. We are the minority who understand, the nothingness of pre-life is the same as post. The world turns, we die, and nothing changes.

When I die, I will have no more anything. Thoughts, feelings, emotions, conscious...it will be gone. And everyone I ever loved or affected will also die, and lose all connection to me. And in the end, the sun blows up and nothing matters. So tell me, why should I live at all? Why should I care? You may say...'enjoy it while you got it' but that joy ends at death, where it will not matter. Any joy I had will be gone and insignificant to me. Some say 'do it for others so they can live happy' but again, they are going to die, into a world of nothing, with me. So they're happiness does not matter. That good feeling they get, and I get, all that, will just stop. It's like taking your kid to disneyland when they're 1 or 2. They won't make a memory of it...so why do it? Pointless.

Look I know this all sounds so sad and depressing but, I'm just curious, why do you live? Why are we bothering? My answer...I do it just because. I literally feel like a zombie moving through the motions. Sure I'm happy, sure I'm sad and angry sometimes, but I'm just taking it day by day. I don't fear cancer or diseases or dying, because I know it wont matter and the universe doesn't care. I feel like I'm just waiting to die. It has made me a bit more shrewd to friends and family and I am slowely disconnecting. But seriously, you all know we are miniscule in the grand scheme of things, why do we all feel so important?

I guess that's all. I just want to know why people do it, knowing and believing what we believe. It just doesn't seem like it has any purpose. Yeah that is the key word, purpose.

mgnmsn

Hello! I have always been a nonbeliever, but I officially started using the term atheist this past fall. I have really struggled with the idea of dying, and then nothing. I will be gone forever. I guess the point to me is to leave the world slightly better in whatever way I can. I tutor kids in my local library and I probably will for a long time. I may have changed a course of a life for somebody else. Or maybe when they are older they will repay the favor to another child. I am also going to school for respiratory therapy. I hope that when I go to work in a hospital I can be comforting to patients and help with their recovery and help their families come to terms with what is happening. Maybe I will leave a positive feeling for them. For me personally, I accept that I will never change the lives of millions like some people do. I guess there really is no point to living, but I want to leave a positive image of me when I die. I also guess my point of living is being with the love of my life. I want to make sure he is taken care of and that we are happy. And he does the same for me. But you are right. When we die, we die, but that does not mean that right now I should worry about that.

Injurymachine

I have yet to come across a good, satisfying answer to that, Adam. The good news is that there is no purpose being forced on you; you are allowed to define it for yourself. You are right in that there is a long string of boring before you are born and after you die, but there is a brief time when bits of the universe align in a temporary confederacy to allow for potentially amazing things to happen. Good luck with the time you have.

sanjoparolas

To walk in beauty and to seek truth is a wonderful purpose, as is to leave the world a better place (although that is a toughie considering the damage we do in our western culture). Much better than living in fear so that a big sky daddy can judge you or as the previous poster stated: having a purpose forced on you. Just by posting this topic, you are demonstrating your search for truth and it sounds like you've got the walk in beauty part going on as well.

adamsurpren

The responses here have been better than I expected. I appreciate you guys reading my post and taking the time to respond. Thanks a lot and I respect everything you guys wrote. I may not be finding purpose yet, but today I am happy.

FitLink

I guess I'm not sure why this has anything to do with atheism. I mean, would your life have a "purpose" if you professed a belief in an imaginary omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator of all things, heaven, hell, and the like? How would this impart any "purpose?" And what is "purpose" anyway? I suppose I don't have "purpose" by the definition you're using either, it just doesn't bother me. AT ALL. I just seek as much joy and as little suffering for myself and other conscious creatures. I live for today, because tomorrow isn't guaranteed.

FitLink

The responses here have been better than I expected. I appreciate you guys reading my post and taking the time to respond. Thanks a lot and I respect everything you guys wrote. I may not be finding purpose yet, but today I am happy.

Can't happiness be purpose?


"There's probably no god...now stop worrying and enjoy your life." Good advice, I think.

adamsurpren

I guess I'm not sure why this has anything to do with atheism.

Well...that wasn't a very productive comment. I mean, what I am writing has EVERYTHING to do with atheism. Our belief that there is no god certainly defines how we live our life. How we interact with others. As does religion for the religious.

I mean, would your life have a "purpose" if you professed a belief in an imaginary omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator of all things, heaven, hell, and the like? How would this impart any "purpose?".

Well..for one you would do good, abide by their rules, etc. Think about catholics going to church and confessing sins so they can go to heaven, and extremists destroying things or attacking others so they can serve what their god dictates. They have purpose in life because they believe it trancends to the afterlife. For them, what we do here, matters afterwards. Whereas I believe, what I do here will eventually never matter. Ever.

I suppose I don't have "purpose" by the definition you're using either, it just doesn't bother me. AT ALL. I just seek as much joy and as little suffering for myself and other conscious creatures. I live for today, because tomorrow isn't guaranteed.

Okay, that's good for you. I was curious on what other people found purpose in, or how they view life. You could of just said this and I'd have gained something.

Can't happiness be purpose?

"There's probably no god...now stop worrying and enjoy your life." Good advice, I think.

Yes it is good advice. And purpose can be whatever you want it to be. It's pretty open to multiple interpretations. That's why I asked. Thanks for your reply.

dj_phx

I can't remember a time in my life I ever believed in a god, and learned the term atheist in high school. I really struggled with this for a couple years. I felt that there was nothing to work towards, because it would all end and become obsolete anyway, so why put forth the effort. I still wouldn't say that I have a "purpose", but I have come to accept the finality of life. My goal right now is to live a positive, happy life, and do what I can to make those around me happy. I try to make all my actions work towards that goal and try as hard as I can to stand away from negativity.

I don't really think that theists have anymore than a purpose than non-theists. Sure they are working towards an afterlife, but that really just softens the blow of death. I still think the thinkers among them still suffer from this dilemma.

Polly758

You may say...'enjoy it while you got it' but that joy ends at death, where it will not matter. Any joy I had will be gone and insignificant to me.

To know that someday, something will not matter, doesn't change the fact that right now it matters! It may be gone in the future but you've still got it now.

Death is hard to deal with. I took care of a family member until her death, and when she died I felt like all that time and effort I put into keeping her comfortable and happy died with her. It's hard. But at the moments she needed help, it mattered. Plus, knowing that I did something for her that she can never repay, taking that time out of my life and giving that gift to her, and giving that gift to my family (they didn't have to do it!) ... all of that did not go away with her death, and I'm still proud of what I did.

When I die, you're right, I won't care and none of it will matter. But not being conscious goes way beyond our normal concept of "don't care". Besides, a stranger on the street doesn't care about your problems, does that mean you don't have to care? You won't exist after you're dead, that person (the dead you) might as well be a stranger. Don't worry about what he thinks... uhh, doesn't think.

The ancient stoics wrote a lot about living with the knowledge that everything/everyone will die some day, and they advise some good practices and thought experiments for managing that knowledge. You might like to read "Guide to the good life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy" by William Irvine. It really helped me make sense of being a born again atheist.

adamsurpren

To know that someday, something will not matter, doesn't change the fact that right now it matters! It may be gone in the future but you've still got it now.

You might like to read "Guide to the good life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy" by William Irvine.

That is an excellent point. I have to agree with you. Accepting the importance of here and now really helps to define purpose. And it does matter. Thank you.

I'll check out that book tonight. Thanks for the tip.

I don't really think that theists have anymore than a purpose than non-theists. Sure they are working towards an afterlife, but that really just softens the blow of death. I still think the thinkers among them still suffer from this dilemma.

To dj_phx - I think the illusion of purpose is still purpose. We may understand that they have no more purpose than us, but they don't see it that way. Or at least, they believe that someone has a puprose for them.

Hoakiebs

To dj_phx - I think the illusion of purpose is still purpose. We may understand that they have no more purpose than us, but they don't see it that way. Or at least, they believe that someone has a puprose for them.

So, I guess you're saying that Christmas means more to little kids, before they realize there is NO Santa because they have the illusion of there being a Santa. I guess I see your point, but it still doesn't make Santa real; but I agree that it might have more meaning to a child thinking that they got the gifts because they had been "good".

I have always looked at the purpose in life being the legacy we leave, even if only to family. You will live on in their memory, and If infamous, in the annals of history.

itsybitsybutterfly

I think being happy is a good purpose in your life. I try to be happy with the choices I make or the things I do. I'm creative and that makes me happy with myself no matter how trivial other people may think it is.

I did enjoy reading the responses here. It's a bit off topic, but I see a many great minds responding and I sent some friend requests to all of you.

I just try to remember life is what you make of it. My fiance has been atheist since he was about 9 years old and I was Christian when we got together, I never questioned any of it. They teach you never to do so. The fear of hell kept me from questioning my faith, just like they like it. I loved my fiance very much. It didn't matter to me that he didn't believe. We used to avoid the topic of religion all together and slowly. but surely we started to talk about it from time to time. Well needless to say over the years my mind had been set free and there is no going back. Once you realize how trapped religions keep you, how controlled you are by it and how false all of it is you feel like you had been owned. Like a slave...or a better term like a sheep.

We live in such a beautiful world. When I learned about stardust and how we are made of all of the same elements and dark matter...the list can go on and on I am just taken back. I feel more connected to this planet than I ever have before in my life. I love being free from religion. It's the most beautiful thing that has ever happened to me.

kikilieb

I am an atheist and as such I do not believe in life after death, I also do not believe in any supernatural intervention or judgment either (i.e. the purpose of my life is not a reward of having been good enough / faithful enough to enter into heaven). I guess my purpose comes in the small moments, when I wake up and drink a cup of coffee I can find pupose in that. The coffee sort of soothes me into the transition between waking up and getting about my day. I find purpose in the act of walking down the stairs, the purpose is to get to the street, getting to the street has the purpose of getting me to work, getting to work has a two fold purpose: one, to serve the people of my community (this purpose is more theirs than it is mine), and two, to pay my bills. I could go on ad infinitum, but I hope you catch my meaning.

To a larger extent, I suppose my purpose is that the knowledge and experience I have gained thus far in life is passed on to our children, basically I am here to teach them the same way my parents and grandparents have taught me (and continue to teach me even to this day). My wish is to leave footprints that have benefitted the earth as well as the generations to come.

Will all of this perish in the end? Yes. Does that mean there is no grand meaning to all of this? I guess it does. Does that mean there is no meaning at all? I don't think so.... I am an atheist; I am not a nihilist. Maybe your feelings are closer to nihilism than atheism? Give it some time, listen to the atheists and there perception of pupose and hopefully you can come to the realization that atheism doesn't necesarily lead to nihilism. I think, if I remember correctly, Christopher Hitchens might have some talks on the subject of purpose. He could probably elucidate on this subject far better than I. Good luck in your search!

Edit: Here is a youtube vid "The purpose of purpose" by Richard Dawkins... I haven't watched it yet, so I am only hoping it will be helpful. I'm gonna start listening to it now ^_^

http://youtu.be/mT4EWCRfdUg


Oh Oh Oh, and here's one from Hitchens (ever so humorous he was ^o^)

http://youtu.be/YU3mEOw1gRQ

FitLink

I guess I'm not sure why this has anything to do with atheism.

Well...that wasn't a very productive comment. I mean, what I am writing has EVERYTHING to do with atheism. Our belief that there is no god certainly defines how we live our life. How we interact with others. As does religion for the religious.

I mean, would your life have a "purpose" if you professed a belief in an imaginary omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent creator of all things, heaven, hell, and the like? How would this impart any "purpose?".

Well..for one you would do good, abide by their rules, etc. Think about catholics going to church and confessing sins so they can go to heaven, and extremists destroying things or attacking others so they can serve what their god dictates. They have purpose in life because they believe it trancends to the afterlife. For them, what we do here, matters afterwards. Whereas I believe, what I do here will eventually never matter. Ever.

I suppose I don't have "purpose" by the definition you're using either, it just doesn't bother me. AT ALL. I just seek as much joy and as little suffering for myself and other conscious creatures. I live for today, because tomorrow isn't guaranteed.

Okay, that's good for you. I was curious on what other people found purpose in, or how they view life. You could of just said this and I'd have gained something.

Can't happiness be purpose?

"There's probably no god...now stop worrying and enjoy your life." Good advice, I think.

Yes it is good advice. And purpose can be whatever you want it to be. It's pretty open to multiple interpretations. That's why I asked. Thanks for your reply.

I disagree and stand by my assertion that "meaning" has nothing to do with religion, god, or atheism. You are attributing a lot more meaning to religious people's lives than they actually have. IMO, if you believe in god and an afterlife, life is absolutely completely meaningless. If you believe life is a tiny bit of time in a huge eternity that will all be much better than this life, what possible meaning can life have? I also don't see the vast majority of religious people "doing good." Seriously. Do you? I mean really? I see atheists doing good all the time, and for all the right reasons. We do right because it's right, not because we think we'll get rewarded or punished for our actions. I see religious people refraining from doing evil occasionally because they're afraid of punishment, but then their god so often hates the same people they do they can feel free to do evil too, so long as it's against the people they, and their god, hate.

If you believe what you do here will "eventually never matter," that's not because of atheism. What they do won't matter in that way either, because believing in an afterlife and a god don't make them real. If the illusion that you'll get an eternal reward for being good is so attractive, why do you not believe in it? You're describing depression, not atheism. What I do matters. If what you do doesn't matter, change either what you do or what you believe, but being atheist has nothing to do with meaninglessness. Life has MORE meaning, not less, when it's all you get.

FitLink

I can't remember a time in my life I ever believed in a god, and learned the term atheist in high school. I really struggled with this for a couple years. I felt that there was nothing to work towards, because it would all end and become obsolete anyway, so why put forth the effort. I still wouldn't say that I have a "purpose", but I have come to accept the finality of life. My goal right now is to live a positive, happy life, and do what I can to make those around me happy. I try to make all my actions work towards that goal and try as hard as I can to stand away from negativity.

I don't really think that theists have anymore than a purpose than non-theists. Sure they are working towards an afterlife, but that really just softens the blow of death. I still think the thinkers among them still suffer from this dilemma.

This just seems so backwards. That nothing comes AFTER makes life matter MORE, not LESS!

adamsurpren

I disagree and stand by my assertion that "meaning" has nothing to do with religion, god, or atheism. You are attributing a lot more meaning to religious people's lives than they actually have. IMO, if you believe in god and an afterlife, life is absolutely completely meaningless. If you believe life is a tiny bit of time in a huge eternity that will all be much better than this life, what possible meaning can life have? I also don't see the vast majority of religious people "doing good." Seriously. Do you? I mean really? I see atheists doing good all the time, and for all the right reasons. We do right because it's right, not because we think we'll get rewarded or punished for our actions. I see religious people refraining from doing evil occasionally because they're afraid of punishment, but then their god so often hates the same people they do they can feel free to do evil too, so long as it's against the people they, and their god, hate.

If you believe what you do here will "eventually never matter," that's not because of atheism. What they do won't matter in that way either, because believing in an afterlife and a god don't make them real. If the illusion that you'll get an eternal reward for being good is so attractive, why do you not believe in it? You're describing depression, not atheism. What I do matters. If what you do doesn't matter, change either what you do or what you believe, but being atheist has nothing to do with meaninglessness. Life has MORE meaning, not less, when it's all you get.

This just seems so backwards. That nothing comes AFTER makes life matter MORE, not LESS!

Hmm. You're just looking for a fight. You know, nobody in this thread wants to debate, argue or point out where people are wrong and right. This thread was meant for others to explain why they live the way they live and how they find purpose in it. You did that already, so please either elaborate more to that, or stop posting.

adamsurpren

I think being happy is a good purpose in your life. I try to be happy with the choices I make or the things I do. I'm creative and that makes me happy with myself no matter how trivial other people may think it is.

We live in such a beautiful world. When I learned about stardust and how we are made of all of the same elements and dark matter...the list can go on and on I am just taken back. I feel more connected to this planet than I ever have before in my life. I love being free from religion. It's the most beautiful thing that has ever happened to me.

The world is beautiful. Those are some good things to remember. I think reflecting on all of the "miracles" it took for us to be here is a nice feeling. And freedom from religion is another. I might be slowely finding purpose in trying to convert other's the way your fiance did with you lol. What a great guy!

adamsurpren

I guess my purpose comes in the small moments, when I wake up and drink a cup of coffee I can find pupose in that. The coffee sort of soothes me into the transition between waking up and getting about my day. I find purpose in the act of walking down the stairs, the purpose is to get to the street, getting to the street has the purpose of getting me to work, getting to work has a two fold purpose: one, to serve the people of my community (this purpose is more theirs than it is mine), and two, to pay my bills.

To a larger extent, I suppose my purpose is that the knowledge and experience I have gained thus far in life is passed on to our children, basically I am here to teach them the same way my parents and grandparents have taught me (and continue to teach me even to this day). My wish is to leave footprints that have benefitted the earth as well as the generations to come.

Will all of this perish in the end? Yes. Does that mean there is no grand meaning to all of this? I guess it does. Does that mean there is no meaning at all? I don't think so.... I am an atheist; I am not a nihilist. Maybe your feelings are closer to nihilism than atheism? Give it some time, listen to the atheists and there perception of pupose and hopefully you can come to the realization that atheism doesn't necesarily lead to nihilism. I think, if I remember correctly, Christopher Hitchens might have some talks on the subject of purpose. He could probably elucidate on this subject far better than I. Good luck in your search!

Edit: Here is a youtube vid "The purpose of purpose" by Richard Dawkins... I haven't watched it yet, so I am only hoping it will be helpful. I'm gonna start listening to it now ^_^

http://youtu.be/mT4EWCRfdUg


Oh Oh Oh, and here's one from Hitchens (ever so humorous he was ^o^)

http://youtu.be/YU3mEOw1gRQ

That scares me 3Nomen. I really do not want to become a nihilist. Now that, is depressing. I feel like I can relate to what you said though (I didn't realize it till now). I suppose I do feel some purpose in the morning routine, taking care of my dogs, and just going through the daily motions. Sometimes it feels important to be me. And that is a purpose-ful feeling. Thanks for shining some light on that for me.

As for giving it some time and listening to atheists, well thats what I hope this thread can accomplish for me lol. I will definitely check out those vids too. I always love listening to some of the more prolific atheists. Thanks for your time and the great response.

FitLink

I disagree and stand by my assertion that "meaning" has nothing to do with religion, god, or atheism. You are attributing a lot more meaning to religious people's lives than they actually have. IMO, if you believe in god and an afterlife, life is absolutely completely meaningless. If you believe life is a tiny bit of time in a huge eternity that will all be much better than this life, what possible meaning can life have? I also don't see the vast majority of religious people "doing good." Seriously. Do you? I mean really? I see atheists doing good all the time, and for all the right reasons. We do right because it's right, not because we think we'll get rewarded or punished for our actions. I see religious people refraining from doing evil occasionally because they're afraid of punishment, but then their god so often hates the same people they do they can feel free to do evil too, so long as it's against the people they, and their god, hate.

If you believe what you do here will "eventually never matter," that's not because of atheism. What they do won't matter in that way either, because believing in an afterlife and a god don't make them real. If the illusion that you'll get an eternal reward for being good is so attractive, why do you not believe in it? You're describing depression, not atheism. What I do matters. If what you do doesn't matter, change either what you do or what you believe, but being atheist has nothing to do with meaninglessness. Life has MORE meaning, not less, when it's all you get.

This just seems so backwards. That nothing comes AFTER makes life matter MORE, not LESS!

Hmm. You're just looking for a fight. You know, nobody in this thread wants to debate, argue or point out where people are wrong and right. This thread was meant for others to explain why they live the way they live and how they find purpose in it. You did that already, so please either elaborate more to that, or stop posting.

If you think atheism is about "not disagreeing," you clearly haven't seen enough of Hitch. Or Dawkins, or Harris, for that matter. As atheists, we have NOTHING in common except a lack of belief in a god or gods. Healthy disagreement is just that--healthy.

There is no logical connection between a lack of a belief in the supernatural and a lack of meaning in life. That's an accusation the religious hurl at us, but there is no necessary connection. We have enough on our hands just countering the religious accusations that our lives lack meaning because we don't believe in their particular god, without our giving credence to such. THAT is why I am so adamant that atheism is not a CAUSE of meaninglessness or purposelessness.

This is not to say an atheist can't have a purposeless life, but so can a religious person. Atheism doesn't CAUSE meaninglessness and religion doesn't eliminate it.

Polly758

There is no logical connection between a lack of a belief in the supernatural and a lack of meaning in life. That's an accusation the religious hurl at us, but there is no necessary connection. We have enough on our hands just countering the religious accusations that our lives lack meaning because we don't believe in their particular god, without our giving credence to such. THAT is why I am so adamant that atheism is not a CAUSE of meaninglessness or purposelessness.

So, in order to be good atheists, we have to toe the line and act like our lives are so meaningful and happy now that we're atheists?

Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying. You're tired of countering all the myths about atheism. I, too, have had a Christian friend tell me I was a nihilist-- that I HAD TO be one because I didn't believe in god. I am learning to just look 'em in the eye, cross my arms, and say, "prove it."

Of course most of us agree with you that religion is not the one true path to a meaningful life. But it can be hard to shake the FEELING.

I think what you may be missing is the feeling a former Christian has when s/he loses faith in god. If you haven't had that faith, if you haven’t been a True Believer and then lost it, you don't understand the horrible feeling it is. It takes some time to get over, and meanwhile, yeah, life looks pretty meaningless. Your whole REALITY has changed from one where an all-powerful loving Male in the sky takes care of everything and has a plan for you, etc, to one where NOBODY is looking out for you except a few other mortals you've gotten yourself tangled up with-- if you're lucky.

Of course most of us pick ourselves back up after a period of mourning and realize we have the same meaning in our lives that we've always had, just without the god and eternity behind it... but that takes time. Meanwhile we have to counter our old friends and family arguing with us about meaning in our lives and how we're going to hell for not believing in their invisible friend.

If the atheist community (such as it is) can't even admit to each other that we struggle with a lack of meaning in our lives, we're gonna end up a bunch of lying fakers, the same kind of people who shake hands on Sunday morning and say "God is good!" and then go home with the same sins and depressions as everyone else on this planet. Nobody likes a hypocrite.

An atheist acquaintance of mine recently committed suicide. She had left the Seventh Day Adventist church after about 40 years, and then joined a local atheist Meetup (where we met), where we all got together and shook hands and said "Dawkins is good!" and scolded each other about how we have just as much meaning and more as any Christian. And my friend did not leave a note, but it's my contention that she was dying a little bit every day from hopelessness and loneliness. And yeah, a Christian would jump and that and say HAHA IT'S TRUE ATHEISTS HAVE NO MEANING AND THEY ARE DEPRESSED but you know what? Some of us are. Don't deny it, you'll only make it worse. Do something about it.

Polly758

Also, it occurs to me...

The Christians will think what they're gonna think. Sometime I like to argue with them. Sometimes I really just don't care. You know, sometimes I AM a depressed atheist. *kitten* 'em if they point and laugh. I prefer to be honest with myself. Because as much as I really don't want to spend an afterlife with any god I've ever heard of, it might be nice to see my grandparents again. And the fact that I won't is sad. That's reality. I'm not ashamed to admit it.

If it gives someone meaning to live a good life so god will let them see their grandparents again, even if it's false, it still gives them meaning. I envy them their delusions sometimes.

And if you think that makes me a bad atheist, *kitten* you too. :laugh:

FitLink

There is no logical connection between a lack of a belief in the supernatural and a lack of meaning in life. That's an accusation the religious hurl at us, but there is no necessary connection. We have enough on our hands just countering the religious accusations that our lives lack meaning because we don't believe in their particular god, without our giving credence to such. THAT is why I am so adamant that atheism is not a CAUSE of meaninglessness or purposelessness.

So, in order to be good atheists, we have to toe the line and act like our lives are so meaningful and happy now that we're atheists?

Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying. You're tired of countering all the myths about atheism. I, too, have had a Christian friend tell me I was a nihilist-- that I HAD TO be one because I didn't believe in god. I am learning to just look 'em in the eye, cross my arms, and say, "prove it."

Of course most of us agree with you that religion is not the one true path to a meaningful life. But it can be hard to shake the FEELING.

I think what you may be missing is the feeling a former Christian has when s/he loses faith in god. If you haven't had that faith, if you haven’t been a True Believer and then lost it, you don't understand the horrible feeling it is. It takes some time to get over, and meanwhile, yeah, life looks pretty meaningless. Your whole REALITY has changed from one where an all-powerful loving Male in the sky takes care of everything and has a plan for you, etc, to one where NOBODY is looking out for you except a few other mortals you've gotten yourself tangled up with-- if you're lucky.

Of course most of us pick ourselves back up after a period of mourning and realize we have the same meaning in our lives that we've always had, just without the god and eternity behind it... but that takes time. Meanwhile we have to counter our old friends and family arguing with us about meaning in our lives and how we're going to hell for not believing in their invisible friend.

If the atheist community (such as it is) can't even admit to each other that we struggle with a lack of meaning in our lives, we're gonna end up a bunch of lying fakers, the same kind of people who shake hands on Sunday morning and say "God is good!" and then go home with the same sins and depressions as everyone else on this planet. Nobody likes a hypocrite.

An atheist acquaintance of mine recently committed suicide. She had left the Seventh Day Adventist church after about 40 years, and then joined a local atheist Meetup (where we met), where we all got together and shook hands and said "Dawkins is good!" and scolded each other about how we have just as much meaning and more as any Christian. And my friend did not leave a note, but it's my contention that she was dying a little bit every day from hopelessness and loneliness. And yeah, a Christian would jump and that and say HAHA IT'S TRUE ATHEISTS HAVE NO MEANING AND THEY ARE DEPRESSED but you know what? Some of us are. Don't deny it, you'll only make it worse. Do something about it.

I didn't deny it. I said some atheists have meaningless or purposeless lives. What I am saying is that it's not caused by your lack of belief, any more than a xian's meaninglessness or purposelessness is because of xianity. What would you like me to do about it? I can't find meaning in your life. Most atheists do not feel purposeless. Most atheists see a lot of meaning in their lives. Why are you mourning a belief in something you admit isn't real? Are you missing the community connection? Then make new community connections. Check out what these atheists have written and said, explaining where they found meaning in life, if it's not obvious to you. I sugest you start with Carl Sagan, because he had a lot to say about the subject. Check out what Matt Dillahunty posts at YouTube. Matt is an ex-fundamentalist and has a lot to say about being an ex-xian.

The atheist community doesn't need to "admit we struggle with meaninglessness." For the most part, we don't. The vast majority of atheists find plenty of meaning in life, and we struggle to fight the image that we struggle with meaninglessness.

I see no reason to assume that the reason an atheist who left no note killed herself is because of meaninglessness. I'd attribute it to prejudice, if I attributed it to anything at all, but neither of us really should speculate.

You seem pretty adamant that you like this feeling of purposelessness, as you call it, and want to hang on to it and assume we all feel it and deny it. I'm not so sure you're as yet really convinced there is no god. Why else mourn the loss of ignorance?

FitLink

Also, it occurs to me...

The Christians will think what they're gonna think. Sometime I like to argue with them. Sometimes I really just don't care. You know, sometimes I AM a depressed atheist. *kitten* 'em if they point and laugh. I prefer to be honest with myself. Because as much as I really don't want to spend an afterlife with any god I've ever heard of, it might be nice to see my grandparents again. And the fact that I won't is sad. That's reality. I'm not ashamed to admit it.

If it gives someone meaning to live a good life so god will let them see their grandparents again, even if it's false, it still gives them meaning. I envy them their delusions sometimes.

And if you think that makes me a bad atheist, *kitten* you too. :laugh:

I'm not bothered what xians believe, so long as they're not spouting those beliefs as if they should have the force of law and be enforced by the government. And I couldn't care less if you don't care if you're depressed. But atheism doesn't cause depression. The vast majority of atheists are happy, well adjusted and consider life meaningful. I can't imagine why you'd envy someone a delusion. So they waste the only life they get chasing a pipe dream of what they'll get in heaven? Do you also envy the muslim jihadists the 72 virgins they believe they'll get in heaven for entirely giving up the only life they'll get? That isn't meaning. Giving up false beliefs allows you to derive true meaning, in place of the illusion religion gives.

Have you considered an atheistic religion in your search for meaning? Like Buddhism or Jainism? Sam Harris has many good things to say about the Jains.

Polly758

You seem pretty adamant that you like this feeling of purposelessness, as you call it, and want to hang on to it and assume we all feel it and deny it. I'm not so sure you're as yet really convinced there is no god. Why else mourn the loss of ignorance?

You don't read very carefully.

So they waste the only life they get chasing a pipe dream of what they'll get in heaven? Do you also envy the muslim jihadists the 72 virgins they believe they'll get in heaven for entirely giving up the only life they'll get? That isn't meaning.

Who says they're wasting their life? They seem quite pleased with themselves. And yes, I do envy them a bit. Not because they have it better than me, but because life is so simple for them.

Don't you get it? If we all get to decide our own meaning, then religious people get to decide their own meaning too.

Have you considered an atheistic religion in your search for meaning? Like Buddhism or Jainism? Sam Harris has many good things to say about the Jains.

Yeah. I'll do that.

adamsurpren

The last 6 posts have all been argumentative. Which, as I mentioned, is exaclty what I was hoping to not have.

Thanks for killing my thread. Insert [expletive]

FitLink

You seem pretty adamant that you like this feeling of purposelessness, as you call it, and want to hang on to it and assume we all feel it and deny it. I'm not so sure you're as yet really convinced there is no god. Why else mourn the loss of ignorance?

You don't read very carefully.

So they waste the only life they get chasing a pipe dream of what they'll get in heaven? Do you also envy the muslim jihadists the 72 virgins they believe they'll get in heaven for entirely giving up the only life they'll get? That isn't meaning.

Who says they're wasting their life? They seem quite pleased with themselves. And yes, I do envy them a bit. Not because they have it better than me, but because life is so simple for them.

Don't you get it? If we all get to decide our own meaning, then religious people get to decide their own meaning too.

Have you considered an atheistic religion in your search for meaning? Like Buddhism or Jainism? Sam Harris has many good things to say about the Jains.

Yeah. I'll do that.

Yes, we all get to determine if our lives are meaningful. My issue is that you are attributing meaninglessness to atheism in the same way xians ascribe meaning and morality to xianity. If your life lacks meaning, the lack is in you, not in your atheism.

You seem to have this need to assign your meaninglessness to atheism and atheists, then when it's pointed out that MOST atheists feel life is MORE meaningful for atheists, you tell me I don't understand the pain ex-xians feel at the loss of their xianity. And you base this upon... NOTHING, that's what you base it on. Most atheists are ex-theists of one flavor or another; I myself used to be a xian of the roman catholic variety. I attended NINETEEN YEARS of catholic schooling! NINETEEN YEARS! Kindergarten through six years of university. Why on earth would you assume I was an atheist all my life? Do I "mourn" the loss of my belief? You better believe I don't! What possible meaning could I derive from the horror and hatred in the bible? What could you be "missing" without it?

And you know what? If you don't want anyone to disagree with you, don't post to a public forum, and don't speak for a group you're only one member of. I get it. Your life is meaningless. That is totally unconnected to atheism. And BTW, each of our lives, whether we are theist or atheist, has exactly as much meaning as we decide we want to give it. The "theist or atheist" part of that sentence can be dropped and the sentence still means the same because belief in a god is unconnected to meaning. If your life is meaningless and that bothers you, do something meaningful. Just quit blaming atheism.

FitLink

The last 6 posts have all been argumentative. Which, as I mentioned, is exaclty what I was hoping to not have.

Thanks for killing my thread. Insert [expletive]

I suspect that is the cause of your meaninglessness. You expect to be able to control the entire world. This is an internet forum. You don't "own" a thread just because you start it. You label all dissent "argumentative," despite dissent being the best way for knowledge to grow.

tequila09

I don't even really call myself an atheist I just know I don't believe in any of that silly stuff just science. I'm living my life how I want to live it and being the best person I can be. I know it's all for nothing in the end but I don't think about what my "purpose" is I just enjoy my life.

Rhea30

For me, being an atheist frees me. I'm able to look at the world without having to place a pretend answer to it which gives me the feeling I suppose as religion can to some. I'm not bound to anything. Maybe you can take a break from the debating, the arguments, etc that goes on between atheists and theists and just start looking at the world for what it is and how truly amazing it can be, you can probably look at it with a better view then some theists can. It may not give a purpose to you as an individual but its truly awesome on what life is able to do.

One of things I love to read about and nearly obsessed with is the cognitive skills we are finding our with animals more and more, I know this isn't necessarily an 'atheist' activity but its just interesting to witness what life does and able to enjoy this without having to debate it in my head if I am going against some belief or faith, I can just simply enjoy. Sorry if this isn't more helpful but its the only advice I can give.

My individual purpose, it may not be a major one but I have purpose to my friends and family and to myself . I'm glad I get to enjoy the time I do have and get to witness so many different things even if they are little, something I could never done if I wasn't here at all and I can do it all by my own steps, not the steps of some religious institution that may not have my best interest in mind.

adamsurpren

Yay normal, helpful people replying to my post. Thanks!

I'm living my life how I want to live it and being the best person I can be. I know it's all for nothing in the end but I don't think about what my "purpose" is I just enjoy my life.

What is it about your life that you enjoy? What do you do to be "the best person I can be"?
:-)