What's considered cheating
newmein2013
Posts: 674 Member
This question is for discussion only. I am not, nor will I ever be in a situation like this. I just find it interesting. Why do married people cheat and why do they have a different definition of cheating? I've noticed a lot of married guys & women on this site take flirting just a bit too far but they see nothing wrong with it. Even in real life, if a married person is cheating (doing everything you would normally do in a relationship except actual sex) they don't see it as cheating. It's as though that one thing will make the difference. I believe emptional attatchment, excessive flirting, exchanging private photos via text or email, and oral sex is definitely cheating. I think most, if not all, of you would agree. Why don't they see this?
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Flirting can be somewhat innocent but sex can't. For the most part, if you're doing something with someone else that you know you're significant other would be upset about then don't do it. It might as well be cheating.0
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The lines are to be defined by the relationship. Some people think looking at someone else is cheating and some couples very happily manage open relationships. It's up to you to figure out what you consider cheating or not - and a lot of that is dependent not only on your preferences but your level of trust and comfort in the relationship. People tend to pull on the reins when they're less secure about what's happening and where things are going. So if you were okay with SO flirting around a bit before and suddenly it's bothering you more analyze what's inside that's making you feel that way and then have an open honest discussion. A lot of times instead of addressing issues in a healthy way everything gets bottled up and turned into horrible fights that only end up driving people away from each other... which leads to cheating.
There's no easy short answer to this question I think.0 -
I tend to think flirting in general is disrespectful to the relationship. I don't know if I'd call it cheating. All the stuff you mentioned:
would be considered cheating in my book.emotional attatchment, excessive flirting, exchanging private photos via text or email, and oral sex
I personally would take it a step further. Why in the world would a woman send a man a pic (tastefull or otherwise) of her just as friends? You wanna run an outfit, text a chick!
Different people are going to have different boundaries in their relationships.0 -
You wanna run an outfit, text a chick!
I respectfully disagree. I run my date outfit options by my male roommate all the time. He's going to give me the opinion of a man - which is who I'm trying to impress. It's interesting because his opinion almost always conflicts with the girlfriends.
Edit: And yes, he has a girlfriend who is totally chill with it.0 -
I'll definitely agree that it's about an individual couple's defined boundaries. If you wonder if your SO would be upset, that's a sure sign it's not a good choice. Personally, almost everything you listed would be cheating to me. Flirting minorly is no big deal.
I literally just let myself get involved with someone who I later found out is married. It was stunning to me. When I confronted him, he literally said he hadn't lied... he'd just omitted some information. COP OUT! He also said it wasn't MY issue, that he was the one making that choice and living with the consequences/ guilt. True, maybe the first time, but once I knew, I'd be just as guilty as him the next time.
I've never cheated but have ended up the "other woman" twice unbeknownst to me....it's a horrible feeling to realize you've been played. It was more about the emotional attachment in both cases in my opinion... well that and I clearly haven't learned to spot a player!0 -
If you wouldn't tell your significant other you are probably doing something wrong. I know most people flirt and talk to members of the oposite sex but there have to be limits. Any sexual physical touch is off limits! For some people the rules are different depending on the type of relationtionship such as the polyamorous couple I met Monday night.0
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The lines are to be defined by the relationship. Some people think looking at someone else is cheating and some couples very happily manage open relationships. It's up to you to figure out what you consider cheating or not - and a lot of that is dependent not only on your preferences but your level of trust and comfort in the relationship. People tend to pull on the reins when they're less secure about what's happening and where things are going. So if you were okay with SO flirting around a bit before and suddenly it's bothering you more analyze what's inside that's making you feel that way and then have an open honest discussion. A lot of times instead of addressing issues in a healthy way everything gets bottled up and turned into horrible fights that only end up driving people away from each other... which leads to cheating.
There's no easy short answer to this question I think.
^^^ This ^^^
If you wouldn't do it in front of your SO, or with their full knowledge ahead of time, it's cheating.0 -
If you feel like you need to hide it... You're probably doing something wrong.
No secrets!0 -
When you start locking your phone without giving your SO the password. . .you are cheating. .0
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Yep, I agree with most,: anything your partner doesnt know/approve of.
I can't imagine I'd be ok with some bird giving my b/f a bj!! Or vice versa!!! Who on earth thinks oral sex is not cheating??? :noway:0 -
This post has an excerpt from Marilyn Manson's book "The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell". Rules on cheating.
http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/long-hard-road-out-of-hell?before=13038876280 -
You wanna run an outfit, text a chick!
I respectfully disagree. I run my date outfit options by my male roommate all the time. He's going to give me the opinion of a man - which is who I'm trying to impress. It's interesting because his opinion almost always conflicts with the girlfriends.
Edit: And yes, he has a girlfriend who is totally chill with it.
The girlfriend deserves a gold medal because there is no way in hell I'd tolerate my bf living with a chick he's not related to.0 -
You wanna run an outfit, text a chick!
I respectfully disagree. I run my date outfit options by my male roommate all the time. He's going to give me the opinion of a man - which is who I'm trying to impress. It's interesting because his opinion almost always conflicts with the girlfriends.
Edit: And yes, he has a girlfriend who is totally chill with it.
The girlfriend deserves a gold medal because there is no way in hell I'd tolerate my bf living with a chick he's not related to.
Is that really so strange? I've had roommates from , same gender to opposite gender, single to married, hetero to homo and it's never come up before.0 -
if you wouldn't do it openly in front of your significant other, it's cheating. if you need to hide whatever you are saying or doing, it's cheating...... if you're significant other is asking you to stop, and you don't want to or won't, it's cheating.
at least that's opinion :-)0 -
You wanna run an outfit, text a chick!
I respectfully disagree. I run my date outfit options by my male roommate all the time. He's going to give me the opinion of a man - which is who I'm trying to impress. It's interesting because his opinion almost always conflicts with the girlfriends.
Edit: And yes, he has a girlfriend who is totally chill with it.
The girlfriend deserves a gold medal because there is no way in hell I'd tolerate my bf living with a chick he's not related to.
I lived with two guys when I was in my 20s... just the three of us. Think Three's Company but I was Jack. LOL It was AWESOME and yes, the both had girlfriends and I had a boyfriend and everyone was cool with the situation.0 -
Yep, I agree with most,: anything your partner doesnt know/approve of.
I can't imagine I'd be ok with some bird giving my b/f a bj!! Or vice versa!!! Who on earth thinks oral sex is not cheating??? :noway:
Exactly my point! How do they not see this is SOOO wrong, on so many levels??? They "claim" it's not cheating if they're not having actual intercourse. At least this is what they tell themselves. Perhaps to minimize the guilt?0 -
You wanna run an outfit, text a chick!
I respectfully disagree. I run my date outfit options by my male roommate all the time. He's going to give me the opinion of a man - which is who I'm trying to impress. It's interesting because his opinion almost always conflicts with the girlfriends.
Edit: And yes, he has a girlfriend who is totally chill with it.
The girlfriend deserves a gold medal because there is no way in hell I'd tolerate my bf living with a chick he's not related to.
I lived with two guys when I was in my 20s... just the three of us. Think Three's Company but I was Jack. LOL It was AWESOME and yes, the both had girlfriends and I had a boyfriend and everyone was cool with the situation.
How funny Shells, so did I!! And one of the guys was my sisters b/f!!! We all had partners too, so no drama. We had the best time. Great memories!! :bigsmile:
@Nnhouston - why do you object? Isn't it quite normal in the US to flat/house share with the opposite sex? Especially when you first move out form home, into student accomodation or in your late teens/twenties when you start working? Its kinda normal/common here :flowerforyou:0 -
@Nnhouston - why do you object? Isn't it quite normal in the US to flat/house share with the opposite sex? Especially when you first move out form home, into student accomodation or in your late teens/twenties when you start working? Its kinda normal/common here :flowerforyou:
No, it';s not normal here - at least among people I knew. In college, we lived in co-ed floors but your roomie was the same sex, and everyone in houses I knew lived with either girls or guys, but not both. I would be fine with living with a single guy, but not if he was in a relationship - besides I wouldn't want his GF over all the time.
I wouldn't tolerate it either if we were serious. Its not because I wouldn't trust the guy, it's because I wouldn't trust the girls. I wouldn't make him break a lease, but I would let him know that when his lease is up, he should find different roommates.0 -
if you wouldn't do it openly in front of your significant other, it's cheating. if you need to hide whatever you are saying or doing, it's cheating...... if you're significant other is asking you to stop, and you don't want to or won't, it's cheating.
at least that's opinion :-)
I share this opinion. It's whatever your spouse would be uncomfortable with.
In the military, you find co-ed roommates all the time. I would be uncomfortable with it, but many of my peers are not. I would be uncomfortable with any sexual talk between my SO and another woman, but I wouldn't mind lighthearted (non explicit) flirting as long as my SO shared my code of not allowing myself in a situation (such as home alone together) where things could "accidentally" happen..
I know people who wouldn't be able to tolerate even that, or who would be upset at their SO for even having friends of the opposite sex. And if that's where they are, then it's up to their SO to accommodate them (or move on to someone they are more compatible with).
OTOH I have many coworkers who seem to have a strong marriage yet constantly talk suggestively, lunch, dinner, even spend play time with friends of the opposite sex. Dancing suggestively with someone else's husband/wife. I would have a problem with much of the behavior my coworkers exhibit outside of their marriage and WOULD call it cheating. But they don't. In fact, there's been men at my job who talk so much about sexual stuff with one of my married coworkers whose husband is deployed that it turned me OFF and now there's no way I would date them. To each his/her own.0 -
I'm old fashioned. I believe body fluids must be exchanged before you are officially cheating.
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I share this opinion. It's whatever your spouse would be uncomfortable with.
That is ridiculous.
Every man in the world is thinking about having crazy sex with other women *occasionally*, even when he's in a committed, stable relationship with a fantastic woman. However, if he was stupid enough to tell you the following:
"Wow, I was fantasizing about having kinky sex with our new neighbor. You know, the tall blonde woman from down the street? So it started out like this: I drop by with a fruit basket to welcome her to the neighborhood, and then..... little did I know she was a gymnast... and so finally.... etc., etc."
My guess is that you would be very uncomfortable with this. But (a), it's not cheating, and (b) we shouldn't be criminalizing thoughts.
You really need to exchange body fluids, or try very hard with a clear intent to exchange body fluids, before it's cheating.
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I lived with two guys when I was in my 20s... just the three of us. Think Three's Company but I was Jack. LOL It was AWESOME and yes, the both had girlfriends and I had a boyfriend and everyone was cool with the situation.
Of course. Guys are much better roommates than girls, especially in groups. Guys are fairly laid back. They're not going to organize different sections of the refrigerator. Color code cabinets. Have a heart attack if a bill isn't split 100% correctly (knowing it will be made up eventually). Start to biyatch about your friends behind your back. Just in general be quite catty.
And contrary to conventional wisdom, lots of women are total slobs. Just look in the background of the "success pics" here at MFP. Half the time I'm thinking: "Congrats, girl, you lost a ton of weight. Now let's focus on that laundry!"
I'll admit this is a total generalization. :-)
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I'm old fashioned. I believe body fluids must be exchanged before you are officially cheating.
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I have to say I'm closer to this line than the other. Any sort of intercourse, or kissing (obviously not friendly kisses on the cheek, but mouth-on-mouth!) is definitely cheating in my book. Flirting - not cheating. Explicit flirting/sexting/exchange of suggestive photographs - very rude to your partner, and definitely cause to be wondering why you're in a relationship with this person if they obviously are sexually interested in someone else, but not actually cheating. Basically, for me, there has to be physical, sexual contact to qualify as cheating.
I guess one could say that there is a mental/emotional line to be drawn as well, but that is such a grey area, and very dependent on individuals and their relationships. In general, I guess my rule there would be the "If you feel the need to hide it from your spouse/partner, you shouldn't be doing it" line. That said, I don't give anyone my phone (or email) password - I have bank details, medical information and all sorts of sensitive information on that thing. If someone wants to read my texts or emails, they can do me the courtesy of asking, and I will happily unlock the phone/email account.
Slightly stunned by the idea that people having friends or flatmates of the opposite gender might be "intolerable" - that speaks of a level of distrust I find a bit disturbing. If you can't trust your SO to be faithful, simply by dint of proximity to another member of the opposite sex, you a) aren't giving them very much credit (so why are you with them?) b) are assuming an awful lot about the room-mates/friends, and c) seem to think that all women and all men are inevitably going to have enough physical attraction to each other that they will be unable to avoid engaging in sexual contact. If that were true, none of us would be in this forum.
Speaking from my own experience, I have at least as many male as female friends, and have lived with as many men/boys as women, partnered and single. (Actually my male flatmates were brilliant, come to think of it.) There are a handful among my friends I have at some stage felt attracted to, but many, many more with whom my relationship and feelings have only ever been platonic or fraternal, in a few cases. I've never kissed, slept with or had other 'illicit' contact wth any of them. Of course I'm emotionally attached to them, but not romantically interested. We may have bantered mildly flirtatiously at one point or another, we may hug, we may talk on the phone/send texts/emails/birthday cards, but that's as far as it goes. That's friendly behaviour, not cheating.0 -
Slightly stunned by the idea that people having friends or flatmates of the opposite gender might be "intolerable" - that speaks of a level of distrust I find a bit disturbing. If you can't trust your SO to be faithful, simply by dint of proximity to another member of the opposite sex, you a) aren't giving them very much credit (so why are you with them?) b) are assuming an awful lot about the room-mates/friends, and c) seem to think that all women and all men are inevitably going to have enough physical attraction to each other that they will be unable to avoid engaging in sexual contact. If that were true, none of us would be in this forum.
I know, me too!! Weird isn't it?
@Christine - did you go to a same sex school? Do you have any brothers?
Not having a go at you or anything, but you seem to lack experience/insight all round with the opposite sex so mixing with them more would do you a lot of good. Perhaps even try a mixed house share? You will find that people can co habit and chat and eat together on a daily basis without having to jump on each other (unless they want to!) :flowerforyou:0 -
Every man in the world is thinking about having crazy sex with other women *occasionally*, even when he's in a committed, stable relationship with a fantastic woman. However, if he was stupid enough to tell you the following:
"Wow, I was fantasizing about having kinky sex with our new neighbor. You know, the tall blonde woman from down the street? So it started out like this: I drop by with a fruit basket to welcome her to the neighborhood, and then..... little did I know she was a gymnast... and so finally.... etc., etc."
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I dont think fantasising would be classed as cheating. Women do that too!
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I dont think fantasising would be classed as cheating. Women do that too!
My point was that we men (and no doubt you women) do things that our partners would not want to know about. And would no doubt make them uncomfortable. But so long as it doesn't cross the line of exchanging body fluids* (or actively trying to exchange body fluids), it's fair game.
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* Of course Europeans have a bit more leeway here, especially continental Europeans.... I'm kissing people all the time at work, as is custom. Usually on the cheek, but with close friends even on the mouth when we greet, etc. In the Middle East, I have even kissed men on the cheek, as is custom.0 -
To me there are two seperate issues. One is what is cheating and the other is what may lead to cheating.
I agree with the definition of cheating as sex, oral sex, possibly (non-European) kissing. (edited to add qualifier after seeing above post :happy: )
The other category is much less clear cut. There are some things which, whilst they are not cheating, most people would be unhappy with as they involve a degree of intimacy that should be reserved for your partner. I agree, concealment is a clear sign that the activity crosses this line. But theline is different for different people, which is why communication about such things and choosing someone with shared values is important.
What bothers me is when other people define as cheating things which are not within the context of a specific relationship. Flirting is an example of this. Some couples are fine with mild flirting, they don't view it as significant or disrespectful and they don't conceal it from each other. Some couples are fine with their partners having close friends of the opposite sex, as long as they don't feel excuded. Some partners view porn use as unacceptable, others don't - same goes for fantasy or reading erotic fiction. That's fine, live and let live
The problems only come if couples have different views on this or if people attempt to define others by their own standards as cheaters.
I think what often causes the heat in such discussions is the expectation that everyone should behave as they do so that our partners are not tempted to "cheat". This is unrealistic, in my view, and assumes that we need to be kept in a world in which all temptation is avoided, to ensure fidelity. As an example, there are many people on mfp who believe that one shouldn't have mfp friends of the opposite sex, or comment on success stories of the opposite sex, as this establishes communications which may lead to a relationship developing or be seen as disrespectful to a partner. There's nothing wrong with this if both parties are happy with it, but it illustrates how constraining such standards can be to those that don't view them as necessary and how futile it would be to try and define anything we are uncomfortable with as cheating as others will have a very different view, informed by their own standards and experience.0 -
Slightly stunned by the idea that people having friends or flatmates of the opposite gender might be "intolerable" - that speaks of a level of distrust I find a bit disturbing. If you can't trust your SO to be faithful, simply by dint of proximity to another member of the opposite sex, you a) aren't giving them very much credit (so why are you with them?) b) are assuming an awful lot about the room-mates/friends, and c) seem to think that all women and all men are inevitably going to have enough physical attraction to each other that they will be unable to avoid engaging in sexual contact. If that were true, none of us would be in this forum.
I know, me too!! Weird isn't it?
@Christine - did you go to a same sex school? Do you have any brothers?
Not having a go at you or anything, but you seem to lack experience/insight all round with the opposite sex so mixing with them more would do you a lot of good. Perhaps even try a mixed house share? You will find that people can co habit and chat and eat together on a daily basis without having to jump on each other (unless they want to!) :flowerforyou:
Me too - but we are all Brits so manybe this is a cultural difference? Though perhaps not - isn't Friends a US show?
I lived in shared houses with guys for years when I was a student and in my 20s. For a couple of those years I was the only girl in a house with three guys, one of whom was my boyfriend.0 -
Cheating is def mainly physical and I agree with lorro about how the other acts lead to cheating which are equally painful!
This whole room mate thing is strange, some of you would ask a guy to find a new living situation?? I'd ask you to shut the door when you walk your *kitten* out of it lol.
Little bit ridiculous I'd you ask me. If I'm not living with one of my close mates which I do at the moment, I have always preferred to live with females. I don't like the idea the sharing with random dudes. I had a French girl living with me 2 years ago and it was great, she had a boyfriend and I was single for part of it and had a girlfriend for part of it as well. No problems ever.0 -
I share this opinion. It's whatever your spouse would be uncomfortable with.
That is ridiculous.
That may be ridiculous for you, but a great many of people (and psychologists) feel the same way. In fact, back when I was a pastor's wife and voracious reader of all things relationship focused, I found that while there were some experts who recommended opposite-sex friendships (and even flings!) many more experts recommend limiting opposite-sex friendships/flirting/borderline behavior if it caused the spouse discomfort. If you don't agree, that's fine. But it's not ridiculous for someone to have another opinion. I, personally, think it's immoral for my coworker to have affair-esqe relationships with hot guy of the week while her husband is deployed. But her husband doesn't care. I may not agree with it, but they appear to be happy. That said, I know very few men who would be happy if their wives behaved that way.
That doesn't make them ridiculous. It just makes them different.
Many of us would not get into a LTR or marriage with someone who was actively flirting/skirting the edge with another partner. Or even emotionally intimate with another partner. So why do we try to pretend it's ok afterward "because you should trust me by now?" It is NOT unreasonable for someone to be upset that their SO introduced that behavior after the relationship has solidified.0
