What's considered cheating
Replies
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You've completely missed my point. What is ridiculous is defining cheating as "anything your spouse would be uncomfortable with," as you defined it. This is just too broad of a definition, and relies on the rationality of your significant other.
You can argue that cohabitation, mingling, flirting, whatever, is good or bad for a relationship. Fine. I'm not commenting on that per se. I'm just saying you can't define cheating by how actions are interpreted by a third party.
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You've completely missed my point. What is ridiculous is defining cheating as "anything your spouse would be uncomfortable with," as you defined it. This is just too broad of a definition, and relies on the rationality of your significant other.
You can argue that cohabitation, mingling, flirting, whatever, is good or bad for a relationship. Fine. I'm not commenting on that per se. I'm just saying you can't define cheating by how actions are interpreted by a third party.
--P
What she said is logically true, though.
Let's assume for a minute that:
- For me cheating is shaking hand with someone.
- For your hypothetical girlfriend cheating is kissing on the lips (and more).
- For you cheating is *kitten* and more.
You shook someone's hand. For you it's not cheating, but you cheated "on me". But who cares since we're not in a relationship...
You kissed someone on the lips. For you it's not cheating, but you cheated on your hypothetical girlfriend. You care since you're in a relationship. Whether she is rational or not doesn't matter, in her opinion/perception of events you cheated, and she's the one whose opinion you're supposed to care about regarding cheating (not mine!). Well, hers and yours.
So then you guys have an adult conversation about it...
So the point is: you cheat >>on someone who matters to you<< if you do something that they don't want you to do, whether you agree with them (in what case you stop doing it) or not (in what case you split or convince her of the contrary).
I'd blame myself for staying with an irrational partner and split if I was with one. Done.0 -
You've completely missed my point. What is ridiculous is defining cheating as "anything your spouse would be uncomfortable with," as you defined it. This is just too broad of a definition, and relies on the rationality of your significant other.
You can argue that cohabitation, mingling, flirting, whatever, is good or bad for a relationship. Fine. I'm not commenting on that per se. I'm just saying you can't define cheating by how actions are interpreted by a third party.
--P
I tend to agree. For example, if you are married and your spouse thinks you dress too provacatively or doesn't want you talking to members of the opposite sex are you cheating or is he/she controlling and smothering?0 -
You can argue that cohabitation, mingling, flirting, whatever, is good or bad for a relationship. Fine. I'm not commenting on that per se. I'm just saying you can't define cheating by how actions are interpreted by a third party.
We'll just have to disagree on that. I wouldn’t be comfortable with a partner who tells me I can’t define what feels like “cheating” for me. It’s like giving gifts that people don’t want and brushing it off with “It’s the thought that counts.” No, when you really care for someone over the years you at least try to learn what they like. Thankfully for you, few of the single women on this board think like I do.
Personally, I think that displays of love as well as cheating fall in line with interpretation by the intended party with, perhaps, the exception of mental illness.
As a “love” example: My ex husband never interpreted all my cooking, cleaning, and shopping for him as a sign of love. Yet, to me it was an expression of love. It was stuff I did for him because I loved him. I thougth I was showing him I loved him by doing these things. Meant nothing to him. What felt like "love" to him was me taking care of myself and looking good. I can argue all day that he's unreasonable to feel that way. But if I want to have a solid relationship, I must determine what love looks like to my partner and decide if I'm willing to show him love that way for the rest of my life.
Similarly, my partner and I have to determine where each other’s boundaries lie wrt cheating, and decide if we’re willing to abide by those boundaries for the rest of our lives.0 -
it doesn't matter, in her reality you cheated. Not in yours, not in mine, perhaps, but in hers. Now you've got the right to disagree with her, but if everyone agreed on everything "per se" and put the same meaning into every word, there wouldn't be tribunals...You've completely missed my point. What is ridiculous is defining cheating as "anything your spouse would be uncomfortable with," as you defined it. This is just too broad of a definition, and relies on the rationality of your significant other.
You can argue that cohabitation, mingling, flirting, whatever, is good or bad for a relationship. Fine. I'm not commenting on that per se. I'm just saying you can't define cheating by how actions are interpreted by a third party.
--P
I tend to agree. For example, if you are married and your spouse thinks you dress too provacatively or doesn't want you talking to members of the opposite sex are you cheating or is he/she controlling and smothering?
Although I agree there is a commonly accepted definition to things (and for cheating too), there is still enough margin of error for people to actually cheat when they think they don't.0 -
So the point is: you cheat >>on someone who matters to you<< if you do something that they don't want you to do, whether you agree with them (in what case you stop doing it) or not (in what case you split or convince her of the contrary).
No. words have meanings, and you can't just expand the word "cheating" to take on any action at all. Especially as defined by a third party. If you do, the word loses all meaning.
Scenario: you (male) work at an office with an attractive female. You and the attractive female colleague drive across town to meet a client to discuss a potential project. Your SO finds out you were at a meeting with your co-worker, and accuses you of cheating on her.
Your response?
1 - Gosh, someone that matters to me thinks I'm cheating on her. Even though I don't agree this is cheating, since she is bothered by it, I must assume it's cheating, if I can't convince her to the contrary.
OR
2 - Honey, you're bat %$#^ crazy, that's not cheating. It's a friggin' business meeting that happened to involve a co-worker!!!!! How can you call that cheating!!!
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Ok, YOU define the "Universally Accepted Definition (TM)" of cheating then... Good luck with that. On that forum alone, we've seen a variety of opinions already.So the point is: you cheat >>on someone who matters to you<< if you do something that they don't want you to do, whether you agree with them (in what case you stop doing it) or not (in what case you split or convince her of the contrary).
No. words have meanings, and you can't just expand the word "cheating" to take on any action at all. Especially as defined by a third party. If you do, the word loses all meaning.
Your response?
1 - Gosh, someone that matters to me thinks I'm cheating on her. Even though I don't agree this is cheating, since she is bothered by it, I must assume it's cheating, if I can't convince her to the contrary.
OR
2 - Honey, you're bat %$#^ crazy, that's not cheating. It's a friggin' business meeting that happened to involve a co-worker!!!!! How can you call that cheating!!!
As for 1, it is a lot less ridiculous than you think, it happens frequently, and the next step is "Ok... I can't convince her it is NOT cheating >>IMHO<< and we disagree, so let's split."
Here are your options:
1 - "Girl, you're right, I'm right, the relationship doesn't work, let's stop."
2 - "Girl, you're wrong."
Guess which one is preferable.0 -
In fact, this whole discussion reminds me of the "she was asking for it" approach to sexual assault. The rapist saw her walking alone late at night in a short mini skirt, drunk, and therefore thought she was clearly looking for violent sex. He legitimately thought that was what she wanted. Does that make it right?
No, that makes him a POS rapist. Because words have meanings.
Your gf/bf may think you're cheating, but because words have meanings, it depends on your specific actions. Living with a roommate of the opposite sex is not cheating. It may not be advisable if you want to continue in a specific relationship (I wouldn't care, but whatever), but that doesn't make sharing an apartment with someone of the opposite sex "cheating." Sleeping over at a friend's house (of the opposite sex) does not mean you "cheated" on your bf/gf. It probably means you were too drunk or tired to drive home. Unless, of course, you actually exchanged some body fluids, nudge, nudge, wink, wink...
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Can we all agree there's a difference between 'cheating' and doing something that your partner finds disrespectful/crosses their mental lines for appropriate behaviour in a relationship? The latter is something that needs to be discussed within each specific relationship, and each person's feelings respected (within reason - I'm sorry, I cannot see having close friends of the opposite gender as 'cheating' in any way, shape or form. Any man who expected me to ditch friends of decades' standing simply because they are male would soon find himself kicked to the kerb.)
Everyone will have behaviours they feel are 'undesirable' in their SO, and will feel more or less strongly about elements within that, but actual 'cheating' has got to be more than interaction with a member of the opposite sex, or we'd all be in single-gender workplaces, hospitals, schools, buses etc etc etc. Intention, added to action, is surely key. Are you getting in the car with your male/female co-worker with the intent of having a sexual or romantic encounter, or are you actually just going to a meeting?! Am I going to see 'Spiderman' at the cinema with my best male friend because we're going to sit in the back row and make out, or are we going because we've been going to comic films together for 10 years, throwing popcorn at the screen every time there's a cheesy line (don't sit in front of us!) and then acting out the action sequences in absurd accents on the way home?! If you can't trust your partner's intentions, I'll say it again - why are you with them?
It seems to me that some of the more extreme ideas of what constitutes 'cheating' are perhaps more a reflection of people's own insecurities than actual cheating...0 -
Slightly stunned by the idea that people having friends or flatmates of the opposite gender might be "intolerable" - that speaks of a level of distrust I find a bit disturbing. If you can't trust your SO to be faithful, simply by dint of proximity to another member of the opposite sex, you a) aren't giving them very much credit (so why are you with them?) b) are assuming an awful lot about the room-mates/friends, and c) seem to think that all women and all men are inevitably going to have enough physical attraction to each other that they will be unable to avoid engaging in sexual contact.
I agree! My boyfriend has a female roommate and I have zero problem with this. If I did have a reason to distrust either of them, my relationship would deteriorate... trust is most important in a relationship!0 -
Can we all agree there's a difference between 'cheating' and doing something that your partner finds disrespectful/crosses their mental lines for appropriate behaviour in a relationship?
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It seems to me that some of the more extreme ideas of what constitutes 'cheating' are perhaps more a reflection of people's own insecurities than actual cheating...
Agree 100%.
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How about the other side of the spectrum?It seems to me that some of the more extreme ideas of what constitutes 'cheating' are perhaps more a reflection of people's own insecurities than actual cheating...
Would you call two (very secure) people having an open relationship "cheats"? Are they cheating on each other?
Response: "No, it's not cheating it's an open relationship!!! Where the partners can have sex with as many people as they want, have oral sex around if they want to..."
Yet according to the "commonly accepted definition" of cheating, it is cheating. In front of a tribunal, they would probably be found technically guilty of cheating on each other.
But in reality it isn't cheating, as per the agreed definition of what the relationship is between the two partners. Thus the agreement between the two partners matters more than the "commonly accepted definition" to define what they are or aren't.
Keyword: agreement.
If two (very insecure) people are having a closed relationship and want to call the fact of spending a night at a girl's/guy's friend place "cheating" (as per their agreed definition), it's their problem.
Note that I actually agree with the "standard definition of cheating" for the most part, but I don't take it for granted - that's all I'm saying...
TL;DR: Words have a rough meaning. Ask your lawyer...0 -
so, to those of you who believe that a physical act has to take place in order for it to be cheating, what do you do with the relationship that starts as friends, either in real life or online. and progresses, turns into sexting, and cyber sex, and phone sex, but doesn't become physical......... it turns into " i love yous" and " i want to be with you." and then you're wondering where your spouse is??? they aren't home with you.
they shrug you off. they push you away. they " cannot do that tonight, i have a headache." and then out of the blue, they're walking away. they're leaving you. they don't love you anymore........ they need space, need to figure out what is going on in their heads, etc. and they walk right into the arms of the person that they have connected with on an emotional level.......
is that not cheating?
and yes, this happens. it happens almost every single day. it happens here, it happens on FB, it happens at work, in neighborhoods!!!! people falling in love and needing to be together, yet having never made out or had sex... sometimes having never touched!!!! i've watched it happen. i've heard of it happening. i've been told personal stories about it.
sooooooooooo............. yeah. i'm not gonna change my opinion of what is cheating. if you cannot tell your spouse, won't tell your spouse, need to hide your computer, password lock your phone, LIE about to whom you're talking to, or where you are going......... i'm in the school of thought, that this is cheating.......... emotional affairs lead to divorce more often than physical affairs do.0 -
How about the other side of the spectrum?It seems to me that some of the more extreme ideas of what constitutes 'cheating' are perhaps more a reflection of people's own insecurities than actual cheating...
Would you call two (very secure) people having an open relationship "cheats"? Are they cheating on each other?
Interesting question... I'm not sure if it's possible to ''cheat' if there is no presumption of fidelity to start with. Just about to shut down the computer and saw this. Will have a think and a response for you tomorrow!0 -
Am I going to see 'Spiderman' at the cinema with my best male friend because we're going to sit in the back row and make out, or are we going because we've been going to comic films together for 10 years, throwing popcorn at the screen every time there's a cheesy line (don't sit in front of us!) and then acting out the action sequences in absurd accents on the way home?!
I want to be your friend, you sound awesomefun 8D0 -
so, to those of you who believe that a physical act has to take place in order for it to be cheating, what do you do with the relationship that starts as friends, either in real life or online. and progresses, turns into sexting, and cyber sex, and phone sex, but doesn't become physical......... it turns into " i love yous" and " i want to be with you." and then you're wondering where your spouse is??? they aren't home with you.
they shrug you off. they push you away. they " cannot do that tonight, i have a headache." and then out of the blue, they're walking away. they're leaving you. they don't love you anymore........ they need space, need to figure out what is going on in their heads, etc. and they walk right into the arms of the person that they have connected with on an emotional level.......
is that not cheating?
and yes, this happens. it happens almost every single day. it happens here, it happens on FB, it happens at work, in neighborhoods!!!! people falling in love and needing to be together, yet having never made out or had sex... sometimes having never touched!!!! i've watched it happen. i've heard of it happening. i've been told personal stories about it.
sooooooooooo............. yeah. i'm not gonna change my opinion of what is cheating. if you cannot tell your spouse, won't tell your spouse, need to hide your computer, password lock your phone, LIE about to whom you're talking to, or where you are going......... i'm in the school of thought, that this is cheating.......... emotional affairs lead to divorce more often than physical affairs do.
I believe emotional affairs to be the worst kind of cheating. The 3rd party is playing a major role in distancing the couple (whether they realize this or not).0 -
Can we all agree there's a difference between 'cheating' and doing something that your partner finds disrespectful/crosses their mental lines for appropriate behaviour in a relationship?
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It seems to me that some of the more extreme ideas of what constitutes 'cheating' are perhaps more a reflection of people's own insecurities than actual cheating...
Agreed -however I do believe there is physical as well as emotional cheating. Physical cheating is when you are more physically intimate (sex, bj, whatever) with another person than your S.O., emotional cheating is where you are more emotionally intimate with another person than your S.O. Of course early on in a relationship, it's not likely to be emotionally cheating yet because you haven't established the intimacy - but in marriage, you should have that intimacy.
As for living with the opposite sex. Yeah it's not quite as norm here in the U.S. to live with the opposite sex, but I've done so and slept over at many friends houses/places. Friends are friends. For my guy friends (since I'm straight), we both are just platonic. I generally sleep on a couch or spare bed and when their girlfriends (if they do have them) meet me they have never once had a problem, and I cease an action (ie sleeping at their place after the bar, cause it's closest) if the girlfriend has an issue with it even if my guy friend has no problem solely out of respect for her.
As for my own dates, if they have an issue with me having guy friends - then we probably shouldn't be dating. I like my friends and I value them more than a new relationship/date.0 -
This question is for discussion only. I am not, nor will I ever be in a situation like this. I just find it interesting. Why do married people cheat and why do they have a different definition of cheating? I've noticed a lot of married guys & women on this site take flirting just a bit too far but they see nothing wrong with it. Even in real life, if a married person is cheating (doing everything you would normally do in a relationship except actual sex) they don't see it as cheating. It's as though that one thing will make the difference. I believe emptional attatchment, excessive flirting, exchanging private photos via text or email, and oral sex is definitely cheating. I think most, if not all, of you would agree. Why don't they see this?
Vaginal penetration or oral copulation0
This discussion has been closed.