Painful Conversation
Replies
-
How's this for an idea? For both men and women. Avoid career talk until the end of the first date. I find it very possible to do. Since a woman's career is not an important factor to me, I'll usually spend less than 30 seconds discussing it in the pre-date and first date phase. I also try not to talk about anything related to my work for more than 30-60 seconds. The only way I talk about it is if someone directly asks about my line of work, which will happen if you have a long enough conversation.0
-
So what rank ARE YOU?
Quit skirting around the question, Janie!0 -
So what rank ARE YOU?
Quit skirting around the question, Janie!
She obviously doesn't want to answer so I suggest everyone just drop it.
Geez, I thought I was obtuse about hints and subtlety. Y'all are nosy.0 -
I'd probably spend an inappropriate amount of time discussing her curriculum, perhaps having her explain the physics behind nuclear propulsion for submarines (assuming she's Navy), etc. That's a cool date, right there.
Actually, in my experience it hasn't been a cool date. Which is why I try to avoid the topic altogether. It just never ends well. The rare guy who actually WANTS to talk about physics/nuke stuff often thinks they know something, tries to impress me, and is usually wrong. And I usually go out with strong personalities, so then I have to figure out if it's worth letting him keep talking and be wrong (for sake of his ego) or correcting him (which is hard to do b/c he's gonna come at it every which way to prove he's right til I give up).
Maybe it's because I'm not as techie as people think when they hear about it...? So either they misjudge me or run, or they're looking for an engineering girl (rare) and I am not her.
Once I went out with someone who WAS a physicist and I was soooooo embarrassed b/c he was talking about stuff I'd forgotten (and really don't care about) long ago. I told him so. Turned out, he thought I was still "in the academic mix" so he was trying to impress me. He, like me, had been doing management for so long that he really wasn't current with research either. We had a fabulous time running the beach, talking about dogs and life normal stuff, then a fun dinner with no engineering or physics talk.
I don't think that's what he was talking about. I think he was talking about comparing information, not lecturing you. It's curiosity and not one-upping. If a guy is saying "I thought this was true, is it?" and you said "Oh no, it's blah-de-blah" and he goes "Oh wow that's so interesting, I'm going to look that up!" you've got a catch! If you get a guy who responds with "NU-UH YOU'RE WRONG" then you're dating someone that isn't worth your time.
As far as not talking about career... I would be really put off if a guy asked me what I'm working toward and I say "Exotic animal trainer" and then they nod and move on... Yeah, most likely I'm not going on another date with that guy. Hell, I'm not a nuclear engineer and I've also encountered the know-it-all people that think they know everything about animal behavior and try to correct me. Those people suck. There's also been a lot of people that are interested and ask questions and sometimes even leads to us both looking up more things. I like that a lot. Of course, I'm an eternal nerd so...0 -
So what rank ARE YOU?
Quit skirting around the question, Janie!
She obviously doesn't want to answer so I suggest everyone just drop it.
Geez, I thought I was obtuse about hints and subtlety. Y'all are nosy.
Aaaaaaaaaaand dennnnnnnn?0 -
I'm going to go hide under my desk with my high school diploma
Make room for me sweetpea, . I only have an associates.
Same...
Good for you... Seriously.
You're very established, and have accomplished a lot. One day, a guy isn't going to be intimidated and will admire all of that. It's incredible!
I need room as well.......wait I'm still pretty big. I should just go get another desk to hide under. :laugh:
Hiding under my own desk with my BA :brokenheart:0 -
I'm going to go hide under my desk with my high school diploma
Make room for me sweetpea, . I only have an associates.
Same...
Good for you... Seriously.
You're very established, and have accomplished a lot. One day, a guy isn't going to be intimidated and will admire all of that. It's incredible!
I need room as well.......wait I'm still pretty big. I should just go get another desk to hide under. :laugh:
Heck no - we will all fit!!!0 -
You should see how much the dating pool shrinks for those of us with a PhD!Women with Master's Level degrees and jobs that are typically correlated with a Master's Degree see their dating pool shrink. Women prefer to date equal or upwards in education and salary. A typical guy with a Bachelor's of a similar age to a woman with a Master's isn't going to be interested. Guys with some college or just a high school education are even less likely to be interested. A guy with a Bachelor's and 15 years of post Bachelor's working experience might be interested in a newly minted female Master's Degree holder.
Or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, those of us who are "just" waitresses. We must be completely uneducated and therefore very undesirable. :huh:0 -
Or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, those of us who are "just" waitresses. We must be completely uneducated and therefore very undesirable. :huh:
That's not the case. The point I made at the beginning of the conversation is that the highly educated, high earning powerful women are having a hard time keeping men interested. This is mostly a syndrome of women with advanced degrees, and some women with Bachelor's. Men with Bachelor's and Master's and a fairly routine career and usually open to waitresses, but there's one thing that I believe a lot of men would struggle with when it comes to waitresses and that is scheduling. Waitresses often work very late into the night and during weekends, and that can make it difficult to see each other with enough regularity depending upon what the guy does. I'm a big believer in repetition building a relationship.
Some of it also depends on how the man relates to you, and the way you would perceive an intelligent man. There are cases where smarter men tend to turn off women with their intelligence. Dave Brightwell touched on this phenomenon. It is often beneficial for an intelligent men to dumb it down a little bit to make it easier to relate to women to make himself more desirable.0 -
Or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, those of us who are "just" waitresses. We must be completely uneducated and therefore very undesirable. :huh:
I dunno. Penny from The Big Bang Theory seems to be very much desired by her PhD neighbors... You're not an aspiring actress, as well, are you? :-)
--P0 -
If anyone's curious, this guy has been texting me all weekend and wants to take me out.0
-
It may be one of those things when you look back on it in a few years and laugh as a couple. Some of my relationships started off totally awkward. He obviously isn't intimidated enough to avoid you so go for it.If anyone's curious, this guy has been texting me all weekend and wants to take me out.0 -
If anyone's curious, this guy has been texting me all weekend and wants to take me out.
If he can`t accept the you outside your professional life then it will not work out well.0 -
It may be one of those things when you look back on it in a few years and laugh as a couple. Some of my relationships started off totally awkward. He obviously isn't intimidated enough to avoid you so go for it.If anyone's curious, this guy has been texting me all weekend and wants to take me out.
Nah, I'm moving next month. And he's two hours south of here. Not likely to be worth it. I went on Match the other day and told all the guys who were emailing me that I was moving. I've got so much to do in prep for the move and most of my weekends between now and then are already full anyhow. So no need to waste anyone's time.0 -
Or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, those of us who are "just" waitresses. We must be completely uneducated and therefore very undesirable. :huh:
That's not the case. The point I made at the beginning of the conversation is that the highly educated, high earning powerful women are having a hard time keeping men interested. This is mostly a syndrome of women with advanced degrees, and some women with Bachelor's. Men with Bachelor's and Master's and a fairly routine career and usually open to waitresses, but there's one thing that I believe a lot of men would struggle with when it comes to waitresses and that is scheduling. Waitresses often work very late into the night and during weekends, and that can make it difficult to see each other with enough regularity depending upon what the guy does. I'm a big believer in repetition building a relationship.
Some of it also depends on how the man relates to you, and the way you would perceive an intelligent man. There are cases where smarter men tend to turn off women with their intelligence. Dave Brightwell touched on this phenomenon. It is often beneficial for an intelligent men to dumb it down a little bit to make it easier to relate to women to make himself more desirable.
I understand what you mean, but I don't think many men with Bachelor's and Master's degrees would look twice at a waitress.0 -
Or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, those of us who are "just" waitresses. We must be completely uneducated and therefore very undesirable. :huh:
That's not the case. The point I made at the beginning of the conversation is that the highly educated, high earning powerful women are having a hard time keeping men interested. This is mostly a syndrome of women with advanced degrees, and some women with Bachelor's. Men with Bachelor's and Master's and a fairly routine career and usually open to waitresses, but there's one thing that I believe a lot of men would struggle with when it comes to waitresses and that is scheduling. Waitresses often work very late into the night and during weekends, and that can make it difficult to see each other with enough regularity depending upon what the guy does. I'm a big believer in repetition building a relationship.
Some of it also depends on how the man relates to you, and the way you would perceive an intelligent man. There are cases where smarter men tend to turn off women with their intelligence. Dave Brightwell touched on this phenomenon. It is often beneficial for an intelligent men to dumb it down a little bit to make it easier to relate to women to make himself more desirable.
I understand what you mean, but I don't think many men with Bachelor's and Master's degrees would look twice at a waitress.
Why do you see things that way about men with Bachelor's/Master's not looking twice at waitresses?
Ever talked with a waitress from Hooters, Twin Peaks or any other "breastaurant" about this? Plenty of guys with Bachelor's/Master's try to pick up those women.0 -
Or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, those of us who are "just" waitresses. We must be completely uneducated and therefore very undesirable. :huh:
That's not the case. The point I made at the beginning of the conversation is that the highly educated, high earning powerful women are having a hard time keeping men interested. This is mostly a syndrome of women with advanced degrees, and some women with Bachelor's. Men with Bachelor's and Master's and a fairly routine career and usually open to waitresses, but there's one thing that I believe a lot of men would struggle with when it comes to waitresses and that is scheduling. Waitresses often work very late into the night and during weekends, and that can make it difficult to see each other with enough regularity depending upon what the guy does. I'm a big believer in repetition building a relationship.
Some of it also depends on how the man relates to you, and the way you would perceive an intelligent man. There are cases where smarter men tend to turn off women with their intelligence. Dave Brightwell touched on this phenomenon. It is often beneficial for an intelligent men to dumb it down a little bit to make it easier to relate to women to make himself more desirable.
I understand what you mean, but I don't think many men with Bachelor's and Master's degrees would look twice at a waitress.
Why do you see things that way about men with Bachelor's/Master's not looking twice at waitresses?
Ever talked with a waitress from Hooters, Twin Peaks or any other "breastaurant" about this? Plenty of guys with Bachelor's/Master's try to pick up those women.
I have a Bachelor's degree and I would love to date any of the waitresses at my local Hooters. Most guys don't give a hoot if a woman has a MBA from a top 5 school or an AA from a community college.0 -
Or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, those of us who are "just" waitresses. We must be completely uneducated and therefore very undesirable. :huh:
That's not the case. The point I made at the beginning of the conversation is that the highly educated, high earning powerful women are having a hard time keeping men interested. This is mostly a syndrome of women with advanced degrees, and some women with Bachelor's. Men with Bachelor's and Master's and a fairly routine career and usually open to waitresses, but there's one thing that I believe a lot of men would struggle with when it comes to waitresses and that is scheduling. Waitresses often work very late into the night and during weekends, and that can make it difficult to see each other with enough regularity depending upon what the guy does. I'm a big believer in repetition building a relationship.
Some of it also depends on how the man relates to you, and the way you would perceive an intelligent man. There are cases where smarter men tend to turn off women with their intelligence. Dave Brightwell touched on this phenomenon. It is often beneficial for an intelligent men to dumb it down a little bit to make it easier to relate to women to make himself more desirable.
I understand what you mean, but I don't think many men with Bachelor's and Master's degrees would look twice at a waitress.
Why do you see things that way about men with Bachelor's/Master's not looking twice at waitresses?
Ever talked with a waitress from Hooters, Twin Peaks or any other "breastaurant" about this? Plenty of guys with Bachelor's/Master's try to pick up those women.
I have a Bachelor's degree and I would love to date any of the waitresses at my local Hooters. Most guys don't give a hoot if a woman has a MBA from a top 5 school or an AA from a community college.
So you are saying boobs and *kitten* are more prized then brains?0 -
Or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, those of us who are "just" waitresses. We must be completely uneducated and therefore very undesirable. :huh:
That's not the case. The point I made at the beginning of the conversation is that the highly educated, high earning powerful women are having a hard time keeping men interested. This is mostly a syndrome of women with advanced degrees, and some women with Bachelor's. Men with Bachelor's and Master's and a fairly routine career and usually open to waitresses, but there's one thing that I believe a lot of men would struggle with when it comes to waitresses and that is scheduling. Waitresses often work very late into the night and during weekends, and that can make it difficult to see each other with enough regularity depending upon what the guy does. I'm a big believer in repetition building a relationship.
Some of it also depends on how the man relates to you, and the way you would perceive an intelligent man. There are cases where smarter men tend to turn off women with their intelligence. Dave Brightwell touched on this phenomenon. It is often beneficial for an intelligent men to dumb it down a little bit to make it easier to relate to women to make himself more desirable.
I understand what you mean, but I don't think many men with Bachelor's and Master's degrees would look twice at a waitress.
Why do you see things that way about men with Bachelor's/Master's not looking twice at waitresses?
Ever talked with a waitress from Hooters, Twin Peaks or any other "breastaurant" about this? Plenty of guys with Bachelor's/Master's try to pick up those women.
I have a Bachelor's degree and I would love to date any of the waitresses at my local Hooters. Most guys don't give a hoot if a woman has a MBA from a top 5 school or an AA from a community college.
So you are saying boobs and *kitten* are more prized then brains?
In a word (feel free to back me up guys).. YES.0 -
I don't care if a man has a degree or not .. if he treats me right, works hard and loves me .. that is all I need.0
-
I don't think many men with Bachelor's and Master's degrees would look twice at a waitress.
Why do you see things that way about men with Bachelor's/Master's not looking twice at waitresses?
Ever talked with a waitress from Hooters, Twin Peaks or any other "breastaurant" about this? Plenty of guys with Bachelor's/Master's try to pick up those women.
I have a Bachelor's degree and I would love to date any of the waitresses at my local Hooters. Most guys don't give a hoot if a woman has a MBA from a top 5 school or an AA from a community college.
Mike's point is correct in summarizing what many men think about a woman's education level.
In a hypothetical situation, a good looking woman with an AA from a community college will probably be more than desirable to the average man than a lesser attractive woman with an MBA from a top 5 school and a job commensurate with a top 5 school MBA. The average 25 year old Hooters waitress has more demand from men than a 27 year old recent grad from Harvard Business School working at McKinsey as a consultant.0 -
Janie, you and I have talked about this before. My education background is BS in Psychology and MS Ed in Mental Health Counseling. I think that for me the Master's isn't as intimidating as the mental health counseling part. lol
I really hate that part of the getting to know you process.
*So, did you go to college?
* Yes
* What did you get a degree in?
* Psychology and Master's in Mental Health Counseling
* OH NO! So you are totally analyzing me right now aren't you? What do you think so far?
* Lord.
* No really, tell me.
* Meh, nope.
And on and on and on. Happens almost every time. Or the guy gets really quiet. Same happens when I am asked what I do for a living.
Maybe I should go back to bartending. I had more luck then. And it was FUN! lol0 -
I understand what you mean, but I don't think many men with Bachelor's and Master's degrees would look twice at a waitress.
Really? Our experiences are SO different! Almost everyone I work with has a degree, and the guys LOVE to hit on/date waitresses.0 -
Or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, those of us who are "just" waitresses. We must be completely uneducated and therefore very undesirable. :huh:
That's not the case. The point I made at the beginning of the conversation is that the highly educated, high earning powerful women are having a hard time keeping men interested. This is mostly a syndrome of women with advanced degrees, and some women with Bachelor's. Men with Bachelor's and Master's and a fairly routine career and usually open to waitresses, but there's one thing that I believe a lot of men would struggle with when it comes to waitresses and that is scheduling. Waitresses often work very late into the night and during weekends, and that can make it difficult to see each other with enough regularity depending upon what the guy does. I'm a big believer in repetition building a relationship.
Some of it also depends on how the man relates to you, and the way you would perceive an intelligent man. There are cases where smarter men tend to turn off women with their intelligence. Dave Brightwell touched on this phenomenon. It is often beneficial for an intelligent men to dumb it down a little bit to make it easier to relate to women to make himself more desirable.
I understand what you mean, but I don't think many men with Bachelor's and Master's degrees would look twice at a waitress.
Why do you see things that way about men with Bachelor's/Master's not looking twice at waitresses?
Ever talked with a waitress from Hooters, Twin Peaks or any other "breastaurant" about this? Plenty of guys with Bachelor's/Master's try to pick up those women.
I have a Bachelor's degree and I would love to date any of the waitresses at my local Hooters. Most guys don't give a hoot if a woman has a MBA from a top 5 school or an AA from a community college.
Yes, this makes me feel so much better. Thanks. :ohwell:0 -
The average 25 year old Hooters waitress has more demand from men than a 27 year old recent grad from Harvard Business School working at McKinsey as a consultant.
Well no *kitten*, Sherlock...which just proves my point, that no guy will take a waitress seriously.0 -
Wow. Interesting thread all of a sudden... ;-)
I suppose I could seriously date a waitress, but she needs to be intelligent. She doesn't need an MA from MIT (or any degree, for that matter), but she needs to be intelligent, interesting, etc. Statistically speaking, I'm sure there are some very intelligent waitresses, but quite frankly, the odds are not in her favor. Ergo, I'm not typically looking to date a waitress, although - again - there can be exceptions, and I'd never rule anyone out just because of their job, or lack of degree.
Besides, there are lots of reasons why people are working at jobs that are what some would consider beneath them. They had to support an unexpected child, never had the money in the first place, never had the support or encouragement at home, never believed in themselves, made bad decisions when young, whatever. Perhaps they just love their job, and never cared about maximizing their earnings potential. Money isn't everything, after all.... Key question is whether they are intelligent, well read, kind, etc. Nothing is black and white! But again, statistically speaking, I wouldn't expect to find my soul mate bussing tables at Denny's (possible, not likely).
I grant you the Hooters waitress is probably more in demand than the Harvard graduate, but that is just a testament to the bad decisions that men, especially younger men, make. And "in demand" is probably defined as "wanted sexually." Again, it's about statistics: I'm sure there are some intelligent, interesting, worldly, Hooters waitresses, without a doubt. However, we're probably talking 5%. Whereas I'm fairly confident that 95% of McKinsey consultants are intelligent, interesting, worldly, etc. (99.99% are intelligent, but slightly fewer are interesting and worldly).
If you are an intelligent male, and "large breasts" are more important to you than "lived in France for two years and speaks fluent French," then fine. But my guess is that in six months you'll regret your prioritization.
Not that there's anything wrong with large breasts per se.... :-)
--P0 -
Not that there's anything wrong with large breasts per se.... :-)
--P
I certainly hope not!0 -
This is, of course, assuming that the waitress is smokin' hot and the girls with the masters is frumpy.
At least that's the gist I'm getting because no one bothered to clarify.
If both girls were equally hot, the amount of interest in the girls changes, I would think.0 -
This is, of course, assuming that the waitress is smokin' hot and the girls with the masters is frumpy.
At least that's the gist I'm getting because no one bothered to clarify.
If both girls were equally hot, the amount of interest in the girls changes, I would think.
I agree with this. Taking a fictional movie character are you guys saying you would rather have Reese Witherspoon at the begining of Legally Blonde vs her at the end of it? Same person but one is the typical ditzy blonde with no real ambition in life other then to marry while the other has a law degree and has career on the fast track?0 -
Wow. Interesting thread all of a sudden... ;-)
I suppose I could seriously date a waitress, but she needs to be intelligent. She doesn't need an MA from MIT (or any degree, for that matter), but she needs to be intelligent, interesting, etc. Statistically speaking, I'm sure there are some very intelligent waitresses, but quite frankly, the odds are not in her favor.
The odds are not in her favor that she's intelligent, interesting, etc, or the odds are not in her favor that someone would be interested in a trying to get past the stereotype and date a waitress?
And I'm talking a waitress at a nice place, not Denny's or Hooters.0
This discussion has been closed.