A question
Carl01
Posts: 9,307 Member
After reading through Janies thread where ladies have indicated they have to or feel they have to diminish their accomplishments or even "dumb down" to be appealing to guys it occurs to me that the opposite perception is also the case...that a guy who is not degreed or in a perceived succesful/powerful place in the world is at a disadvantage.
Not suggesting women are gold diggers but is there an inherent equalization in a ladies mind to his job position or accomplishments with his desireability to them?
Not suggesting women are gold diggers but is there an inherent equalization in a ladies mind to his job position or accomplishments with his desireability to them?
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Replies
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The older I have gotten the less I have cared about his degrees. When I was in my 20s I would never think of dating someone that didn't have at least a bacherlors degree, since I had one and thought they had to have one to be on the same level. As I have gotten older I have meet many guys that don't have degrees but are accomplished at what they do. I prefer to date someone that is happy with their job and can support them selves then some one that makes a ton of money but hates their job.
And by support themselves I am not meaning lavishly, but able to afford their bills and not living on credit.0 -
A degree does not indicate smartness or ability to provide. There are plenty of people with college degrees who can't function in this world or are boring and complete idiots. A man who is confident with who he is and what he does is sexy.0
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None of my friends care about a man having degrees/education. They care mostly about how he makes her feel.
They do, however, care about him having a job. They also care, to a degree varying woman by woman, whether or not he has ambition. For example, some of my friends don't care if a guy works a low level job and is happy doing that for the rest of his life. Some of my friends don't mind if he has a low-level job now (because maybe that's where he is right now) but if they are not, together, able to currently acheive an acceptable standard of living she expects that he (just like she) is ambitious enough to pursue it.0 -
I like smart people and fun witty conversation.. However I know several people with degrees who are a bit dim. I know alot of people without degrees who are extremely intelligent. I just like to be able to carry on a conversation with someone. Where you went to school doesnt matter to me.0
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Booksmart means nothing....absolutely nothing. Give me a man with a GED who loves me passionately and unconditionally, and I guarantee I will be one happy woman!0
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It doesn't matter to me. When I was younger I thought I'd marry someone who wore a suit and tie to work That didn't happen. I married a fireman. Didn't last but that's not my point. How we are treated means way more.0
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I too thought growing up I would marry a man who wore a suit and tie everyday. But the older I got the more I realized it is about the man, not the money. As long as he has a job, does not need me to support him, and he can pay his own bills, I am cool with whatever he does. He just has to be happy with himself, and what he does. As long as he loves me and treats me well ... I am good as gold.0
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Maybe I'm from too far in the sticks but a degree *usually* means you owe a lot of money for a paper that doesn't guarantee you squat.
If you went for something you absolutely love great! If you are on the fence about it, sucks to be you.
I pay for my share of the things I do when it comes to "dating/meeting" , so I don't care about you spending your money on me....it's just going to be a long road for you and if you don't find a job that you got your degree in it's possible that you have a rough road ahead of you....that's tough. I wont' judge you for it but you can't tell me that's not tough.
I don't say NO to people who have one. Or vice versa. What makes me happy can't be found on a fancy expensive piece of paper.0 -
Not suggesting women are gold diggers but is there an inherent equalization in a ladies mind to his job position or accomplishments with his desireability to them?
In a word: NO! :bigsmile:0 -
To me, I don't care if a guy has a degree, degrees or no degrees.
I am actually really attracted to men who work more with their hands. I don't know if it's more masculine in my mind or whatever, but it is really a turn on if a guy does physical work. That doesn't mean I'm not attracted to more bookish types, I am. But there is something that I don't mesh with more upper collar guys. I'd rather go to a dive bar than a fancy place, and usually more upper class men aren't willing to do that - they want to go to fancier places.
But I'm open to anyone!0 -
Not suggesting women are gold diggers but is there an inherent equalization in a ladies mind to his job position or accomplishments with his desireability to them?
I prefer a guy to have a degree or some college under their belts, however most of the guys I date don't have that. I care more about them being employed and being in a career they love or in a job that will get them that career. However, I am still young and several of the men I date are still in school (part time) or figuring out their career paths so I focus more on a potential match with a lot of exceptations to my preferences, besides the employed- that is a must!0 -
I am actually really attracted to men who work more with their hands. I don't know if it's more masculine in my mind or whatever, but it is really a turn on if a guy does physical work.
^^This^^0 -
If a guy is lazy and stupid and too much into himself, I wouldn't care to have a relationship with him. I like men who are intellectual, well read and thinkers - that doesn't have to translate into an advanced degree - anyone can choose to read a book, study or just read the newspaper (other than just sports / comics). I'm not sure Carl if you had a negative experience with a woman, but I think most people want someone they can relate to on more than just a physical level.0
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Not that I know of, just a thought for discussion given what is often presumed to be the case.If a guy is lazy and stupid and too much into himself, I wouldn't care to have a relationship with him. I like men who are intellectual, well read and thinkers - that doesn't have to translate into an advanced degree - anyone can choose to read a book, study or just read the newspaper (other than just sports / comics). I'm not sure Carl if you had a negative experience with a woman, but I think most people want someone they can relate to on more than just a physical level.0 -
Good degree => good job => good money => decent intelligence => decent conversation
Well, to some extent it tells: you can finish something, you are an achiever, you potentially pay your own bills and don't live at your parents anymore, you have interesting things to say (maybe), you have had enough intelligence to finish your degree.
Sure, there are people without degrees who have got the same qualities, but most people with degrees will have at least some or all of these qualities (which is a start already).
A degree is a safe bet.
You're only at a disadvantage (though) if you don't possess any of the above mentioned qualities, or if you just tell us you do possess those qualities but cannot show us you do (a degree sort of implies those qualities. Sort of. Safer bet.).0 -
My father is the man that I hold in the highest esteem - he never finished college. Ran away from home when he was fifteen and joined a carnival. He joined the army when he was seventeen. After a little bit of that he went got got a little college in but ended up joining the army again. He retired after twenty years then got MCSE certified and is now working with a well known computer company doing project work with the military that's so secret I couldn't even tell you what he does.
He always taught me that hard work pays off more than anything, and that while other tidbits here and there might help and you should do everything in your power to make it work the most important thing isn't going to be a piece of paper hanging above your desk. I myself am working on a bachelors but I know so many people that are smart, good at their jobs, driven and motivated that hardly have any formal training it's never even been a "requirement" for me. As long as I don't have to be his parent ("take care of him" "pay his way" whatever) then we're golden.0 -
I think as I've gotten older I've worried about checking boxes less. I went on a date with a guy last night who has a degree (in IT, for those of you who remember my track record), yet I can tell you I heard some red flags during dinner that tell me that he may be educated but not the same passionate hard working person I am. (Yes, it took me hours of overanalyzing to come to that... well, that and a fellow MFPer cutting through the mud to ask if I wanted to make out with the guy as my decision point):bigsmile:
Bottomline, he's job hopped, gotten let go and laid off, even shared that his parents expressed frustration about how unsettled in his job he was, he talked about wanting to get out work early, and no desire to do anything more. None of things individually have to mean bad things, but all together tells me there is likely a difference in our priorities and decision making. His education is equivalent to mine though.
Eh, I'd rather worry about whether we can hold conversations (and whether I want to make out with the guy) than think about his education level, hehe...0 -
The older I have gotten the less I have cared about his degrees. When I was in my 20s I would never think of dating someone that didn't have at least a bacherlors degree, since I had one and thought they had to have one to be on the same level. As I have gotten older I have meet many guys that don't have degrees but are accomplished at what they do. I prefer to date someone that is happy with their job and can support them selves then some one that makes a ton of money but hates their job.
And by support themselves I am not meaning lavishly, but able to afford their bills and not living on credit.
This is very similar to how I feel.0 -
A college education doesn't mean much these days, it just makes it easier to find a "good" job. I barely use anything I learned in college at my job or other aspects of my life. So if someone else was able to find a way to manage a good career without spending the extra time or money on an education, then more power to them. I just don't want to date anyone with no direction or ambition in their life.0
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I have a Bachelors Degree. My boyfriend went to 1 year of University and dropped out. He's an IT professional that has learned in the job, he's super smart. Degrees don't make you better person. They don't make you smarter. I'm still paying on college loans at 33 making less per hour than he is. He is college debt free.
Who's the smart one here?0 -
College education is certainly a nice achievement. As flimflamfloz says, it is safer bet that someone who finished at least a Bachelor's will be able to have a stimulating conversation. Bachelor's and Master's Degrees in a lot of fields are watered down. However, with the current economy, there are plenty of college graduates working as Starbucks baristas (50% of grads since 2006 are underemployed or unemployed), so education isn't correlated with the type of job one has.0
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At one point in my life I thought it was important, but not really now.
The last choice had to make between men was between a guy with a doctorate from a decent school and a guy with a bachelor's from a not decent school. I chose the latter. He was/is waaaay smarter, and less of a d-ck. Academic achievement sometimes/often signals insecurity and ego issues to me, depending on the situation.
Also, I worked closely witha professor whose husband hadn't gone to high school. Art was her discipline, he was intelligent (he came from an agrarian community in Mexico)and they both pursued artistic endeavors, but in different ways. Loved both of them, and it was a good model for me to see in my 20's.
But- if on a dating site or something where education level were indicated, I'd probably be a little more vigilant screening someone who hadn't gone to college (which sucks- but is reality), but would definitely not rule them out.
Edit: Also adding that I dropped out of high school at 15 and worked my *kitten* off to get two graduate degrees, so that influences my schema on this.0 -
I would also like to add:
I have never dumbed down any of my accomplishments, or any of the goals I am hoping/working toward. I have met people that didn't like these aspects of me and I breezed on by. My father (as I mentioned in my previous comment is the tool I use to measure other men) made a point of instilling a dedication toward bettering oneself and not being ashamed. When I was younger he brought my sister and I into work with him so we could meet his female boss, and he wanted us to know that women can be accomplished leaders and that if that's what we want we should go for it.
I don't think anyone should dumb down anything about themselves. I certainly don't think people should do the opposite either, as that reeks of dishonesty. Fortunately, it's pretty easy to tell when someone is actually worth their weight in salt once you know what signs to look for.0 -
A college education doesn't mean much these days, it just makes it easier to find a "good" job. I barely use anything I learned in college at my job or other aspects of my life. So if someone else was able to find a way to manage a good career without spending the extra time or money on an education, then more power to them. I just don't want to date anyone with no direction or ambition in their life.
^^ I agree with this... you can have a phd but it isn't worth crap if you don't do anything with it. Ambition is way more important in my book.0 -
Good degree => good job => good money => decent intelligence => decent conversation
Well, to some extent it tells: you can finish something, you are an achiever, you potentially pay your own bills and don't live at your parents anymore, you have interesting things to say (maybe), you have had enough intelligence to finish your degree.
Sure, there are people without degrees who have got the same qualities, but most people with degrees will have at least some or all of these qualities (which is a start already).
A degree is a safe bet.
You're only at a disadvantage (though) if you don't possess any of the above mentioned qualities, or if you just tell us you do possess those qualities but cannot show us you do (a degree sort of implies those qualities. Sort of. Safer bet.).
Kind of have to agree. There is also the aspect of shared experience.. I went to university and was taught to think about and engage the world in a certain way.. those that didn't have this experience or didn't take away the same things from it I have a harder time relating to sometimes. Education though certainly is not everything and there are plenty of people out there much smarter in life than me who didn't go to post-secondary. Working at a university however.. I with only my BA actually feel like the unintellectual one all the time and am sometimes embarassed I haven't completed a Masters yet.0 -
I really hate these topics.
I hate the fact that some men or women seem to get devalued if they didn't have the opportunity to go to school. I've worked with highly degreed people and guess what? They are no different than the rest of us. Sometimes they mis-speak or don't know about a topic -- they're just people.....
I've never chosen to date or not to date someone based on their college background. I decide based on conversation and likes and dislikes.
It makes my skin crawl to think people look down on uneducated people to the extent that they are not willing to give them a chance personally... yet I know it happens all of the time. I'm glad I'm not like this.
And no... I don't' have a degree... but I'm successful and smart.0 -
I have zero College and barely passed High School. Not because I am stupid but because I didn't give a *kitten*. So if some confused b*tch wants to pass judgement on me because of that, then hit the bricks girl cuz when it came time to 'get real' I found a job in the field I wanted, excelled at it greatly and worked my way up the chain quick. And I guarantee I am more quick witted than the socially inept db's I work with. HA0
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I have zero College and barely passed High School. Not because I am stupid but because I didn't give a *kitten*. So if some confused b*tch wants to pass judgement on me because of that, then hit the bricks girl cuz when it came time to 'get real' I found a job in the field I wanted, excelled at it greatly and worked my way up the chain quick. And I guarantee I am more quick witted than the socially inept db's I work with. HA
You get 'em boy!!! Well said. :happy:0 -
I have zero College and barely passed High School. Not because I am stupid but because I didn't give a *kitten*. So if some confused b*tch wants to pass judgement on me because of that, then hit the bricks girl cuz when it came time to 'get real' I found a job in the field I wanted, excelled at it greatly and worked my way up the chain quick. And I guarantee I am more quick witted than the socially inept db's I work with. HA
You sir have won the internet today :flowerforyou: :drinker:0 -
I have zero College and barely passed High School. Not because I am stupid but because I didn't give a *kitten*. So if some confused b*tch wants to pass judgement on me because of that, then hit the bricks girl cuz when it came time to 'get real' I found a job in the field I wanted, excelled at it greatly and worked my way up the chain quick. And I guarantee I am more quick witted than the socially inept db's I work with. HA
And a handsome, well-mannered gent to boot!! :bigsmile:
I'd date you over some college intellectual *kitten* anyday!! :smooched:
Disclaimer: not in any way implying that all graduates are twats! :laugh:0
