Now I'm confused, to lift or not to lift....

dawnemjh

Ok, I just read through some of your info (which is awesome by the way) and now I am confused about what to eat and what to do about lifting.

My goal is to lose at least 15 pounds along with lean muscle gain. I calculated my TDEE at 2300, and was planning 20%cut, which would bring me around 1800. I was actually thinking of dropping to 1600 just to account for error when calculating intake. I have been struggling to lose this last few pounds for over 2 years now so in MAY I started Stronglifts to see if I could change something up. I like SL because of its simplicity. I really prefer cardio and do not like to lift at all, but I know I will do SL since I can finish it in 30-45 mins.
So if I am restricting cals, will I get benefit from lifting???
I'm just all sort of confused right now!

thanks!

aj_31

I'm in the same boat. I also need to lose 15-20 lbs and started lifting in the spring. I haven't lost a pound - in fact I've gained. I'm adding in some cardio again and keeping my lifting to 4x a week.

I'm also having trouble figuring out how much I should be eating. I've been told 2000, 1900, 1800, but I don't seem to lose on any of those. Granted I haven't been 100% on my diet for the past few weeks but even before that I wasn't seeing any loses.

I'm interested in hearing what others think.

dawnemjh

yes, I tried eating more, and gained, even at 1800 i was seeming to gain, and its not muscle....

aj_31

I hear ya. I did a lot of BodyStep which is like the step classes most gyms offer and I think that kept my waist and hips trimmer. Now that I'm not doing that class and have gained about 10 lbs I noticed some dresses and paints don't fit same.

stroutman81

Ok, I just read through some of your info (which is awesome by the way) and now I am confused about what to eat and what to do about lifting.

My goal is to lose at least 15 pounds along with lean muscle gain. I calculated my TDEE at 2300, and was planning 20%cut, which would bring me around 1800. I was actually thinking of dropping to 1600 just to account for error when calculating intake. I have been struggling to lose this last few pounds for over 2 years now so in MAY I started Stronglifts to see if I could change something up. I like SL because of its simplicity. I really prefer cardio and do not like to lift at all, but I know I will do SL since I can finish it in 30-45 mins.
So if I am restricting cals, will I get benefit from lifting???
I'm just all sort of confused right now!

thanks!

Yes. Definitely. Like I said in the stickies... the biggest error I see many people make is avoiding strength training while dieting. It's the primary tool we have in the toolbox for staving off muscle loss. Remember, the leaner we get, the more likely our bodies are to 'give up' muscle. And giving up muscle is not an option if you're trying to improve your level of leanness.

SL is a fine program for maintaining muscle.

stroutman81

I'm in the same boat. I also need to lose 15-20 lbs and started lifting in the spring. I haven't lost a pound - in fact I've gained. I'm adding in some cardio again and keeping my lifting to 4x a week.

I'm also having trouble figuring out how much I should be eating. I've been told 2000, 1900, 1800, but I don't seem to lose on any of those. Granted I haven't been 100% on my diet for the past few weeks but even before that I wasn't seeing any loses.

I'm interested in hearing what others think.

Couple of thoughts....

1. Let's not forget that in the early stages of implementing a strength training routine, muscle gain is very possible even in the face of a deficit. For this reason, it's very likely to see fat loss entirely massed (on the scale) by muscle gain.

2. 4x per week is a bit excessive if you ask me... at least while dieting. It requires more to build an attribute than it does to maintain it. In this case we're talking about strength/muscle. Seeing as how you're dieting, we simply need to be concerned about maintaining... hence 2-3 full body sessions per week are likely more than enough.

3. I don't know your stats, but don't forget the tried and true process. Calculate an estimated maintenance in terms of calories. Create a reasonable deficit based on said maintenance. Track progress via weight, pictures, reflection, measurements. Adjust accordingly.

tameko2

Hmm. ok - I lift 4x a week, because I'm doing Wendler 5/3/1 - so its 1 compound and 2 assistance lifts per day. Thoughts? I don't feel like its strenuous - Overhead press and bench press day are fairly easy days, squats day and deadlift day are strenuous.

How much can I rely on that feeling (that I'm not overdoing it)? We came off stronglifts (where I got to the point that the idea of squatting made me want to weep by the 3rd set) so basically every day on 5/3/1 feels delightfully easy.

dawnemjh

so can I build muscle and lose weight at the same time? I would like more definition in my arms legs and belly, but my primary goal at this point is to at least get back down to what I was when I started here, then maybe even lose. But knowing how I am, if i dont see some definition or some type of results with lifting I know that I wont stick with it.....

nick1109

Hmm. ok - I lift 4x a week, because I'm doing Wendler 5/3/1 - so its 1 compound and 2 assistance lifts per day. Thoughts? I don't feel like its strenuous - Overhead press and bench press day are fairly easy days, squats day and deadlift day are strenuous.

How much can I rely on that feeling (that I'm not overdoing it)? We came off stronglifts (where I got to the point that the idea of squatting made me want to weep by the 3rd set) so basically every day on 5/3/1 feels delightfully easy.

These are both solid routines in my opinion (Wendler 5/3/1 and stronglifts) and anybody would do well to use them. Deads and squats are the two biggies and as such should burn you down the most. I am seriously dead after both these exercises and staggar them each over a push and pull respectively.

aj_31

I'm in the same boat. I also need to lose 15-20 lbs and started lifting in the spring. I haven't lost a pound - in fact I've gained. I'm adding in some cardio again and keeping my lifting to 4x a week.

I'm also having trouble figuring out how much I should be eating. I've been told 2000, 1900, 1800, but I don't seem to lose on any of those. Granted I haven't been 100% on my diet for the past few weeks but even before that I wasn't seeing any loses.

I'm interested in hearing what others think.

Couple of thoughts....

1. Let's not forget that in the early stages of implementing a strength training routine, muscle gain is very possible even in the face of a deficit. For this reason, it's very likely to see fat loss entirely massed (on the scale) by muscle gain.

2. 4x per week is a bit excessive if you ask me... at least while dieting. It requires more to build an attribute than it does to maintain it. In this case we're talking about strength/muscle. Seeing as how you're dieting, we simply need to be concerned about maintaining... hence 2-3 full body sessions per week are likely more than enough.

3. I don't know your stats, but don't forget the tried and true process. Calculate an estimated maintenance in terms of calories. Create a reasonable deficit based on said maintenance. Track progress via weight, pictures, reflection, measurements. Adjust accordingly.

Thanks for the feedback. Right now I'm 31, 5'2, and I'm staying between 170-173. Granted the last couple of weeks I haven't been on my 'diet' because of family trips and what not. Even when I was on plan I was only getting down to 168 lbs. At the beginning of the year I was 162 lbs. Gained a few and then started lifting around 165-166 and have gone up since. I even went on an extreme clean diet (for me) and had 1 "cheat" meal on the weekend and wasn't losing. I became so frustrated with that. Now I try not to look at the scale but I know I've gained because some of the smaller clothes aren't fitting me at the moment. Now I'm trying to go back to eating healthy with with lots of protein, fruit, veggies to see if that works. When I did Weight Watchers 2010 I lost 40 lbs by doing mostly cardio group classes at the YMCA. I didn't eat clean but I watched portion size and tried to eat 3-4 servings of fruit/veggies a day. Maybe I should go back to that way of eating. I don't know.

Right now I'm doing a program called Body Earned. It's by James Wilson and it's structured like a circuit program. The first 4 wks are an all body workout. Then starting wk 5 it starts to work on single muscle groups more. You do at least 20 min of cardio until wk 9 and then it is optional. I really like the program and didn't feel worn out by it at all but I did mess up my right shoulder so I had to stop at wk 8 which was almost 3 wks ago. Now that my shoulder is feeling better I can get back into it.

All the calculations I've done put me at moderate for my workout level which has me around 2300-2400 to maintain. I figured eating between 1800-2000 would give me a good enough deficit but maybe I'm figuring my calories wrong when imputing or somehow going over that I'm gaining and not losing. On the plus side I have seen some muscle growth in my shoulders, arms, and back. Very small growth but there is some.

I will keep working at it. I can't give up because I will not go back to being 40 lbs heavier. That is not an option. Ever!!

stroutman81

Hmm. ok - I lift 4x a week, because I'm doing Wendler 5/3/1 - so its 1 compound and 2 assistance lifts per day. Thoughts? I don't feel like its strenuous - Overhead press and bench press day are fairly easy days, squats day and deadlift day are strenuous.

How much can I rely on that feeling (that I'm not overdoing it)? We came off stronglifts (where I got to the point that the idea of squatting made me want to weep by the 3rd set) so basically every day on 5/3/1 feels delightfully easy.

Oh okay... I'm very familiar with the program and by it's very nature, it's a low volume program for the most part. Given that, it's workable in your situation. Especially if you're enjoying it.

stroutman81

so can I build muscle and lose weight at the same time? I would like more definition in my arms legs and belly, but my primary goal at this point is to at least get back down to what I was when I started here, then maybe even lose. But knowing how I am, if i dont see some definition or some type of results with lifting I know that I wont stick with it.....

If you're relatively new to progressive resistance training, than yes. There's a good chance you'll add a bit of muscle even in the face of a deficit. The concurrent changes won't last long though, considering the fact that muscle is very metabolically active. Building more of it is a very energetically intensive process. If your body doesn't have enough energy coming in the door to maintain itself, which, by default, is the case when you're dieting.... it's not going to make matters worse by adding more muscle. At least not once it catches on to what's up.

For this reason, very few people reach their goal weight completely satisfied. Even if they do everything right. Many times multiple cycles of losing fat and gaining muscle are required.

stroutman81

I'm in the same boat. I also need to lose 15-20 lbs and started lifting in the spring. I haven't lost a pound - in fact I've gained. I'm adding in some cardio again and keeping my lifting to 4x a week.

I'm also having trouble figuring out how much I should be eating. I've been told 2000, 1900, 1800, but I don't seem to lose on any of those. Granted I haven't been 100% on my diet for the past few weeks but even before that I wasn't seeing any loses.

I'm interested in hearing what others think.

Couple of thoughts....

1. Let's not forget that in the early stages of implementing a strength training routine, muscle gain is very possible even in the face of a deficit. For this reason, it's very likely to see fat loss entirely massed (on the scale) by muscle gain.

2. 4x per week is a bit excessive if you ask me... at least while dieting. It requires more to build an attribute than it does to maintain it. In this case we're talking about strength/muscle. Seeing as how you're dieting, we simply need to be concerned about maintaining... hence 2-3 full body sessions per week are likely more than enough.

3. I don't know your stats, but don't forget the tried and true process. Calculate an estimated maintenance in terms of calories. Create a reasonable deficit based on said maintenance. Track progress via weight, pictures, reflection, measurements. Adjust accordingly.

Thanks for the feedback. Right now I'm 31, 5'2, and I'm staying between 170-173. Granted the last couple of weeks I haven't been on my 'diet' because of family trips and what not. Even when I was on plan I was only getting down to 168 lbs. At the beginning of the year I was 162 lbs. Gained a few and then started lifting around 165-166 and have gone up since. I even went on an extreme clean diet (for me) and had 1 "cheat" meal on the weekend and wasn't losing. I became so frustrated with that. Now I try not to look at the scale but I know I've gained because some of the smaller clothes aren't fitting me at the moment. Now I'm trying to go back to eating healthy with with lots of protein, fruit, veggies to see if that works. When I did Weight Watchers 2010 I lost 40 lbs by doing mostly cardio group classes at the YMCA. I didn't eat clean but I watched portion size and tried to eat 3-4 servings of fruit/veggies a day. Maybe I should go back to that way of eating. I don't know.

Right now I'm doing a program called Body Earned. It's by James Wilson and it's structured like a circuit program. The first 4 wks are an all body workout. Then starting wk 5 it starts to work on single muscle groups more. You do at least 20 min of cardio until wk 9 and then it is optional. I really like the program and didn't feel worn out by it at all but I did mess up my right shoulder so I had to stop at wk 8 which was almost 3 wks ago. Now that my shoulder is feeling better I can get back into it.

All the calculations I've done put me at moderate for my workout level which has me around 2300-2400 to maintain. I figured eating between 1800-2000 would give me a good enough deficit but maybe I'm figuring my calories wrong when imputing or somehow going over that I'm gaining and not losing. On the plus side I have seen some muscle growth in my shoulders, arms, and back. Very small growth but there is some.

I will keep working at it. I can't give up because I will not go back to being 40 lbs heavier. That is not an option. Ever!!

Without knowing all the specifics, it sounds to me like you need to practice a bit more consistency as far as nutrition goes. That doesn't mean going ridiculously rigid or anything like that. But you need to find a way of eating that keeps you in a comfortable deficit over the long term. This week doesn't really matter. It's this month and longer.

At 170 pounds, I'd have you eating as close to 1700 as possible.

dawnemjh

Thanks for the feedback Steve!!!!! Really appreciate it!

aj_31

I'm in the same boat. I also need to lose 15-20 lbs and started lifting in the spring. I haven't lost a pound - in fact I've gained. I'm adding in some cardio again and keeping my lifting to 4x a week.

I'm also having trouble figuring out how much I should be eating. I've been told 2000, 1900, 1800, but I don't seem to lose on any of those. Granted I haven't been 100% on my diet for the past few weeks but even before that I wasn't seeing any loses.

I'm interested in hearing what others think.

Couple of thoughts....

1. Let's not forget that in the early stages of implementing a strength training routine, muscle gain is very possible even in the face of a deficit. For this reason, it's very likely to see fat loss entirely massed (on the scale) by muscle gain.

2. 4x per week is a bit excessive if you ask me... at least while dieting. It requires more to build an attribute than it does to maintain it. In this case we're talking about strength/muscle. Seeing as how you're dieting, we simply need to be concerned about maintaining... hence 2-3 full body sessions per week are likely more than enough.

3. I don't know your stats, but don't forget the tried and true process. Calculate an estimated maintenance in terms of calories. Create a reasonable deficit based on said maintenance. Track progress via weight, pictures, reflection, measurements. Adjust accordingly.

Thanks for the feedback. Right now I'm 31, 5'2, and I'm staying between 170-173. Granted the last couple of weeks I haven't been on my 'diet' because of family trips and what not. Even when I was on plan I was only getting down to 168 lbs. At the beginning of the year I was 162 lbs. Gained a few and then started lifting around 165-166 and have gone up since. I even went on an extreme clean diet (for me) and had 1 "cheat" meal on the weekend and wasn't losing. I became so frustrated with that. Now I try not to look at the scale but I know I've gained because some of the smaller clothes aren't fitting me at the moment. Now I'm trying to go back to eating healthy with with lots of protein, fruit, veggies to see if that works. When I did Weight Watchers 2010 I lost 40 lbs by doing mostly cardio group classes at the YMCA. I didn't eat clean but I watched portion size and tried to eat 3-4 servings of fruit/veggies a day. Maybe I should go back to that way of eating. I don't know.

Right now I'm doing a program called Body Earned. It's by James Wilson and it's structured like a circuit program. The first 4 wks are an all body workout. Then starting wk 5 it starts to work on single muscle groups more. You do at least 20 min of cardio until wk 9 and then it is optional. I really like the program and didn't feel worn out by it at all but I did mess up my right shoulder so I had to stop at wk 8 which was almost 3 wks ago. Now that my shoulder is feeling better I can get back into it.

All the calculations I've done put me at moderate for my workout level which has me around 2300-2400 to maintain. I figured eating between 1800-2000 would give me a good enough deficit but maybe I'm figuring my calories wrong when imputing or somehow going over that I'm gaining and not losing. On the plus side I have seen some muscle growth in my shoulders, arms, and back. Very small growth but there is some.

I will keep working at it. I can't give up because I will not go back to being 40 lbs heavier. That is not an option. Ever!!

Without knowing all the specifics, it sounds to me like you need to practice a bit more consistency as far as nutrition goes. That doesn't mean going ridiculously rigid or anything like that. But you need to find a way of eating that keeps you in a comfortable deficit over the long term. This week doesn't really matter. It's this month and longer.

At 170 pounds, I'd have you eating as close to 1700 as possible.

Thanks for the feedback. I will give 1700 a try and see where that gets me. I do need to tighten up my diet. I haven't been great for the last few weeks because of everything that is going on. I really want to get back down to where I was so I have no choice but to buckle down.

tameko2

On the topic of 5/3/1 and Stronglifts -- I'm not sure how to compare progress when I switched from one to the other. For some things its *kind* of linear, but since its pyramided sets instead of straight across, I'm not sure how the levels of fatigue correspond to the final sets. Also, Deadlift volume is WAY higher, and so presumably that's why I've yet to get anywhere near my previous numbers? But its still kind of depressing me. SL record is 185x4, usually did a few warm-up pulls before that but since I'd already squatted I didn't do much, squatting feels plenty warming. Last week (which was the 3x3 week) my final set was 165x4 (I won't count last night, I had a messed up day and went into my lift with low cals and a lot of activity).

^^ does that seem normal?