Domestic violence and when to intervene.

MikeM53082

Yesterday, I was out watching the 1 o'clock football games w/ a friend at a local bar here in south Florida. After the game, we decided to call it a day and go back home. On my way out of the bar, I witnessed a verbal altercation between a guy and a girl. They both seemed slightly intoxicated and they definitely knew each other because I saw them in the bar together. The girl was yelling at the guy, the guy yelled back, and then he forcefully grabbed her arm. It was a fairly forceful grab and basically instructed her to get in the car.

Now, I'm from the school of thought that a women should never raise her voice to a man under any circumstance. Likewise, a man should never lay a hand on a girl, even a forceful grab it too much. But this got me thinking, at what point do you step in and break something like this up? Certainly, if the man slapped the girl, I'd definitely have to break it up and say something.

At what point do you feel obligated to step in?

DMZ_1

That was not a situation to intervene.

Domestic violence is a situation in which there's a lot of awareness. There are many battered women's shelters and other resources. This isn't 1955. I believe that women know when to seek help.

dbrightwell1270

From my time working as a bouncer, I can say that you are in a no-win situation. Had you intervened in this situation or even if he would have hit her, more than likely either she would have turned on you to protect her man or the police would have been called and she would give a story that supported her boyfriend and made you look like the aggressor.

In most situations you are better off keeping your distance and intervening verbally rather than trying to physically intervene. Even had it been bad enmough that you felt a need to physically intervene, you would be better have telling the people in the bar so that there were both witnesses and some assistance in case you got more than you expected.

shammxo

I don't think that it was your place to intervene.. If anything, it might have made it worse for her when they got back home. In those situations, stay out of it.
I kind of agree with DM when he says that women should (theoretically) know when to seek help. But it's not that simple most of the time. When it comes to those types of situations, she can hear over and over that he's wrong for her and she doesn't deserve to be treated that way, but it goes in one ear and out the other. It's ultimately up to that woman to make the decision to seek help. If a woman is coerced into leaving her guy because he is a abusive, and it isn't of her own free will, she might just run back to him.

Up front, men who abuse women don't just come out swinging... In the early stages of the relationship they are typically REALLY generous; almost over the top.Then, it slowly happens. Controlling behaviors... First he monitors her texts, calls, or he calls her incessantly. Then maybe verbal abuse, escalating to physical abuse. My point is that it's a gradual process, so then the woman looks back and thinks, "What did I do wrong? He wasn't like this before." And she will continue to blame herself because he was "such a nice guy". It is fear based. Not only a fear of what might happen to them at the hand of their partner if they did leave, but a fear that she is not good enough, deserve the treatment and maybe if they change, the abuse will stop. A woman needs to be aware of the fact that she needs to do what is right for her, not what is right in everyone else's eyes. It's not as simple as just leaving.

Mellie289

Now, I'm from the school of thought that a women should never raise her voice to a man under any circumstance. Likewise, a man should never lay a hand on a girl, even a forceful grab it too much. But this got me thinking, at what point do you step in and break something like this up? Certainly, if the man slapped the girl, I'd definitely have to break it up and say something.

For clarification, it's okay for a man to raise HIS voice to a woman if he pleases by your school of thought though? I'm just wondering because since you're asking about domestic violence, accepting that it's okay for a man to yell at a woman but not for her to reciprocate is giving the okay for verbal abuse, IMO, and I'm curious if you think one form of abuse is acceptable, while another is not.

I have to say that this whole idea gets my back up. It's like saying that a woman's role in a relationship is similar to her role in a family as the child. Her father may yell at her to scold her and she must submissively take it. However, I'm not an old fashioned girl in this arena - I have never looked for a man who will "take care of me" in a way to replace the role of a father. If someone yells at me, he's going to get it right back because I get angry too because I'm human and it's not 1955.

I agree with Dave that this wasn't something for you to get involved in. If anything, it could provoke violence - a fight between this guy and whoever would intervene. If you ever hear something going on at a neighbor's house, it might be appropriate to do something, but that would be calling the police.

jesusHchris

Now, I'm from the school of thought that a women should never raise her voice to a man under any circumstance.

Haha, yeah right. How's that (and vice versa) working out for all you married folks on here?

flimflamfloz

Now, I'm from the school of thought that a women should never raise her voice to a man under any circumstance.

Haha, yeah right. How's that (and vice versa) working out for all you married folks on here?

Not that we listen to them anyway... :laugh:

Ok, about the issue, as others have said, at best just try to intervene verbally , and I would even advise saying something more "self centered" than judging them (which they won't accept):
"Look, people, I'm trying to enjoy my drink here. Can we keep it down?". You will look like an egoistic prick but that's fine.
Rather than:
"Stop hitting your woman pal. Stop shouting at your man lady". This won't go down too well.
Seriously.

Mom2rh

That was not a situation to intervene.

Domestic violence is a situation in which there's a lot of awareness. There are many battered women's shelters and other resources. This isn't 1955. I believe that women know when to seek help.

Yeah. Sorry. Have to disagree with this. Women don't always know when to seek help. When you are living in an abusive relationship, the signs are not that clear. Obviously, if daily beatings were a part of the cycle, it might be clear. But there are many degrees of abuse. Add economic issues (who controls the money), kids, etc, and you'd be surprised what women will "overlook." Your assumption is dangerous.

Jennifer2387

If they were drunk .. nothing you say will even register in their heads anyway. You can't rationalize with a drunk.

jesusHchris

Ok, about the issue, as others have said, at best just try to intervene verbally , and I would even advise saying something more "self centered" than judging them (which they won't accept):
"Look, people, I'm trying to enjoy my drink here. Can we keep it down?". You will look like an egoistic prick but that's fine.
Rather than:
"Stop hitting your woman pal. Stop shouting at your man lady". This won't go down too well.
Seriously.

I just placed myself mentally into a bar with this situation, and I think this is excellent advice. Might make them think twice about the fact that they are embarrassing themselves in public, and why their behavior might be construed as "annoying".

toots99

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Now, I'm from the school of thought that a women should never raise her voice to a man under any circumstance.

Are you serious? As DM said, this isn't 1955.

Now, I'm not a drama queen and I'd rather walk away from someone yelling at me instead of me yelling back, but you can sure as hell bet that someone is not going to tell me that I can't raise my voice.

MissingMinnesota

Ok, about the issue, as others have said, at best just try to intervene verbally , and I would even advise saying something more "self centered" than judging them (which they won't accept):
"Look, people, I'm trying to enjoy my drink here. Can we keep it down?". You will look like an egoistic prick but that's fine.
Rather than:
"Stop hitting your woman pal. Stop shouting at your man lady". This won't go down too well.
Seriously.

I just placed myself mentally into a bar with this situation, and I think this is excellent advice. Might make them think twice about the fact that they are embarrassing themselves in public, and why their behavior might be construed as "annoying".

I am with this one. Bring attention to them that other people are noticing them would probably stop anything further from going on.

DMZ_1

.

Now, I'm from the school of thought that a women should never raise her voice to a man under any circumstance.

I see the place where you are coming from on this. It makes sense. I don't like the idea of men and women raising their voices to one another. However, even the calmest people will occasionally raise their voices toward their significant other. Give two people enough time, and one person will get on the other person's nerves enough to lead to a raised voice.

Physical violence between members of a couple is not acceptable. And women are capable of physically abusing men.

MikeM53082

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Now, I'm from the school of thought that a women should never raise her voice to a man under any circumstance.

Are you serious? As DM said, this isn't 1955.

Now, I'm not a drama queen and I'd rather walk away from someone yelling at me instead of me yelling back, but you can sure as hell bet that someone is not going to tell me that I can't raise my voice.

Wow, you certainly are a feisty one. :laugh:

Now, I will say that I'm a firm believer in mutual respect in a relationship. A women should never raise her voice to a man and a man shouldn't yell at a women. Physical abuse is wrong as well.

You can get feisty with whomever you want to, but it might not end up in your favor. In my 30 years, I've had one bad relationship altercation. She got wordy with me (for no reason) and she ended up locked outside my house with some of her belongings scattered on the lawn in the middle of the night. Best decision I ever made. I couldn't imagine being with someone who feels the need to yell.

DMZ_1

That was not a situation to intervene.

Domestic violence is a situation in which there's a lot of awareness. There are many battered women's shelters and other resources. This isn't 1955. I believe that women know when to seek help.

Yeah. Sorry. Have to disagree with this. Women don't always know when to seek help. When you are living in an abusive relationship, the signs are not that clear. Obviously, if daily beatings were a part of the cycle, it might be clear. But there are many degrees of abuse. Add economic issues (who controls the money), kids, etc, and you'd be surprised what women will "overlook." Your assumption is dangerous.

This depends on your perspective. I seem to recall the topic of domestic violence being addressed in high school and college classes. And I haven’t sat in a high school or college class all too recently.

The economic issues are real. And the economic issues are affecting bad relationships, even where there is no domestic violence.

I’ve read divorces are down, primarily because you can’t sell a house in this market. And the house is usually the biggest asset in the financial portfolio. There are a lot of couples unwillingly together right now thanks to the terrible economy.

You can get feisty with whomever you want to, but it might not end up in your favor. In my 30 years, I've had one bad relationship altercation. She got wordy with me (for no reason) and she ended up locked outside my house with some of her belongings scattered on the lawn in the middle of the night. Best decision I ever made. I couldn't imagine being with someone who feels the need to yell.

You paint a vivid picture. I don’t think anyone can say much about this without more detail such as what words were said, what reasons she perceived, etc. But I’m guessing that ended that relationship and you seem to have no regrets.

Moe4572

Just because people know of domestice violence -- the statement that it was addressed in college and high school--does NOT mean that you are aware of how to get out once you are involved, especially when there are kids involved, or the abuser is more powerful in the community, etc. I am very lucky in that I have never been involved in this type of situation, but my sister was and my college roommate was and both times, they knew they shouldn't stay, but had a hard time getting out. THankfully, both of them did get out.....but both were ugly situations!

I do agree with some poster that have said could be more dangerous to get involved....

pa_jorg

This depends on your perspective. I seem to recall the topic of domestic violence being addressed in high school and college classes. And I haven’t sat in a high school or college class all too recently.

Not sure you can compare an 'academic' discussion of domestic violence with the reality of it. Life is not that black and white for most people.

Mom2rh

That was not a situation to intervene.

Domestic violence is a situation in which there's a lot of awareness. There are many battered women's shelters and other resources. This isn't 1955. I believe that women know when to seek help.

Yeah. Sorry. Have to disagree with this. Women don't always know when to seek help. When you are living in an abusive relationship, the signs are not that clear. Obviously, if daily beatings were a part of the cycle, it might be clear. But there are many degrees of abuse. Add economic issues (who controls the money), kids, etc, and you'd be surprised what women will "overlook." Your assumption is dangerous.

This depends on your perspective. I seem to recall the topic of domestic violence being addressed in high school and college classes. And I haven’t sat in a high school or college class all too recently.

The economic issues are real. And the economic issues are affecting bad relationships, even where there is no domestic violence.

I’ve read divorces are down, primarily because you can’t sell a house in this market. And the house is usually the biggest asset in the financial portfolio. There are a lot of couples unwillingly together right now thanks to the terrible economy.

You can get feisty with whomever you want to, but it might not end up in your favor. In my 30 years, I've had one bad relationship altercation. She got wordy with me (for no reason) and she ended up locked outside my house with some of her belongings scattered on the lawn in the middle of the night. Best decision I ever made. I couldn't imagine being with someone who feels the need to yell.

You paint a vivid picture. I don’t think anyone can much about this without more detail such as what words were said, what reasons she perceived, etc. But I’m guessing that ended that relationship and you seem to have no regrets.

My perspective is from having lived in an abusive marriage for 20 years. I read all the articles. Watched all the Oprah shows. I knew my ex had anger issues. But it wasn't until I had to call the Sheriff to intervene, got him out of the house (after he trashed it) and got into counseling and actually admitted out loud how I had been treated...THEN I understood that I was one of "those" women. It is NOT black and white when you're living in it.

MikeM53082

You paint a vivid picture. I don’t think anyone can much about this without more detail such as what words were said, what reasons she perceived, etc. But I’m guessing that ended that relationship and you seem to have no regrets.

Without boring everyone with all the details, the argument centered around me wanting to lay low for a weekend. She then continued to call me anti- social and other put downs. Even though the argument centered around this, she was very passive aggressive and would routinely bottle her emotions up and let it all out every so often. I have no patience for that kind of crap.

I owned the house and told her to get out (perks of home ownership). As she walked out, I tossed some of her cloths that she left over out the door. She cried and threw a temper tantrum, I remained cool and told her she needs to get out or I'll call the cops and have her removed. I remember her sitting on my lawn for over an hour before her friend picked her up. I blocked her on Facebook and haven't seen or heard from her since. Thank God.

JanieJack

Up front, men who abuse women don't just come out swinging... In the early stages of the relationship they are typically REALLY generous; almost over the top.Then, it slowly happens. Controlling behaviors... First he monitors her texts, calls, or he calls her incessantly. Then maybe verbal abuse, escalating to physical abuse. My point is that it's a gradual process, so then the woman looks back and thinks, "What did I do wrong? He wasn't like this before." And she will continue to blame herself because he was "such a nice guy". It is fear based. Not only a fear of what might happen to them at the hand of their partner if they did leave, but a fear that she is not good enough, deserve the treatment and maybe if they change, the abuse will stop. A woman needs to be aware of the fact that she needs to do what is right for her, not what is right in everyone else's eyes.

She misses, clings to, the "old him" thinking it's the "real him" not realizing that what she now has IS the "real him." By that point he's worked her self esteem such that she does feel like it's her fault, she's not good enough, no one else would want her, she's lucky he even puts up with her (these are things he's told her a million times) and if she could just get her act together the "real him" would come back and love her again.

Sometimes it's not til you get out of the situation that you realize how bad off you were.

My perspective is from having lived in an abusive marriage for 20 years. I read all the articles. Watched all the Oprah shows. I knew my ex had anger issues. But it wasn't until I had to call the Sheriff to intervene, got him out of the house (after he trashed it) and got into counseling and actually admitted out loud how I had been treated...THEN I understood that I was one of "those" women. It is NOT black and white when you're living in it.

No, it's not. And some "abuse" is still legal or accepted even if it's been "technically" outlawed, depending on the community. So when the woman tries to get help she is often blocked at every turn. When the counselor heard what I'd put up with in marriage he was astounded. And I thought most of it was normal. Kudos to you for getting out.


To OP: If a woman or man does not have the presence of mind to get themselves out of an abusive situation, you making a scene (in an attempt to do something about it) will only make the situation worse as they get home and the abuser punishes her for embarrassing. Especially if the girl in question was hot and it looked more like you were trying to be a knight in shining armor rather than actually caring for her. If it was a stranger, I would pray for them silently and let it go. If it was someone I cared about, I would go to her another time when she was sober and he wasn't around. Yes, I have done this. If it was me in the situation and a guy friend wanted to help me, I would hope he'd send in a trusted female friend of his, because him trying to "help" me would only incense my abuser should he discover me with another man (even platonically).

NCTravellingGirl

Mike, you sure are full of excitement! Dang! I'm surprised you like to stir the pot as much as you do

I grew up in a home where violence was the norm. In those days, no one intervened and I wish they had. I stood for my last day of third grade because it hurt to sit down, so the teacher let me stand. No one ever reported anything. I think that makes me a little oversensitive to this type of discussion.

Yes, women SHOULD know what to do to get out of that circumstance. They just don't always do it because they don't think they have another option and really doubt that it will get THAT bad. My good friend woke up to her husband over her with a knife before she was willing to leave. She hesitated for years for fear he'd get her hard earned 401(k) money... not exactly the rational thought but who really believes that will happen to them?! Even my own sister routinely calls the cops on her live-in boyfriend of 14 years for getting drunk and destroying the house. It's a normal part of life for some folks yet they don't choose a different option without help or support.

I agree that getting physically involved is never the answer. I've seen it backfire more times than not, and believe me I've seen a lot. I like Flam's suggestion as that gives things the chance to simmer down a bit. I don't think what you saw, Mike, was enough to really get much involved. Hopefully that was the extent of it.

Oh, and Mike, remind me not to YELL AT YOU :happy: