my complicated bulk plan

Zero2hero2013

ok so i have had alot of time on my hands recently and have been reading up about how to bulk without gaining fat, to be precise how to gain lean mass after a 2 week cycle with gaining fat at the end of it.

everyone knows to build muscle you have to be in a calorie surplus and to lose fat a defict, well my idea put simply is a 14 days cycle, (your legs are going to ache after that :-) ) 10 day at a calorie surplus 1 day at maintenance and 3 days at deficit. combine this cycle with specific training tailored to your goal. remember my idea is primarily about gaining muscle and being able to continue without the need to cut.

my goal is building strength and size so i have opted for this idea for training.


week 1
Monday back and shoulders, heavy 5x5 work
Tuesday legs and chest, heavy 5x5 work.
Weds Rest, small cardio session, probably waling 3-5 miles
Thursday: back and shoulders again, high rep low weight to failure 2 sets per exercise
Friday, legs and chest again, high rep low weight to failure, 2 sets
sat/sunday rest,

My calorie intake for week 1 would look like this
mon: +500, medium carb, medium, fat, high protein
tuesday: as monday
wed: as monday
thursday:+750 calories all extra calories are carbs
friday: as thursday
saturday: +500: relaxed day of eating, try to be cleanish,
sunday+250, high protein, med fat, med carbs,

Week 2's training

monday: full body 3x8
tuesday: cardio
weds: full body 3x8
thursday rest
friday: full body 3x15
sat/sun rest

week 2 food
mon: +500, medium carb, medium, fat, high protein
tuesday:+ as monday
Weds: as monday
thur: maintenance
fri: -250 calories
sat/sun: -1000 deficit daily,

Zero2hero2013

i was even tempted on the second week wednesday session to do a weak muscle session, basically target the weeker of any two muscle, i.e left leg, left, arm, left side of back, basically a leftie session to give it a chance to catch up while not stunting progress to much everywhere else. also should help with hand ey coordination and muscle brain connections.

ias far as training routines go here is my intital thoughts

week 1
monday,
back and shoulders
deadlifts of course, 3x5 pyramid style,100x5 warm up, 120x5, 140x5, 150x5 (going to try and fill in expected weights im gonna lift, going to be a little safe to start though)
shoulder shrugs: 80x5x5
bent over row single arm: 5x5x35kg
ohp: 5x5 35kg
lat pull down, 150lbs 5x5
face pulls, 5x5 setting 12
seated row, 5x5x170lbs (not sure on this one, might be higher)

tuesday:
squats 5x5x90kg with a wide stance and proper form not like the video lol
dips: 5x5 (maybe able to add a 5k weight) can do 12 normal so guessing 5kg maybe 10kg
calf raises: 5x5 450lbs
bench press: 5x5x70kg
leg press: 5x5x515lbs
incline dumbell chest press: 5x5x 25-27.5kg
leg extensions: 5x5x70kg
leg curls
cable crossovers 5x5x setting 6

weds: rest

thursday friday repeat but higher reps
sat/sun rest

occasional walks but calorie eaten back

Zero2hero2013

week 2
monday, full body 3x8

squats 3x8, 80-85kg
bench press 3x8 65-70kg
bent over row barbell 3x8 60kg
clean and jerks, 10x3x40kg
deadlifts: 1x10x80kg, 1x8x100kg, 1x6x120kg,1x4x140kg, 1x2x160kg, 1x1x180kg

tuesday: recover and a little walking

wednesday: full body
leg press 3x8x515lbs
pectoral fly: 3x8 setting 7
lat pull down: 3x8
tricep press cable 3x8 x setting 10
bicep curl machine, 3x8x100lbs
chest press machine, 3x8
seated row 3x8

thursday rest

friday: full body light weight to failure day, (conditioning day)
squats 3x15+ 50kg
bench press 3x15+ 40kg
bent over row 3x15+ 40kg
seated ohp: 3x15+ 30kg
dips, 3x10 lol
row machine 10 mins


sat/sunday rest

FoxyMcDeadlift

For me, this is far too complicated and i'd quickly lose track of whats what I've yet to see a convincing arguement for any kind of calorie cycling on a bulk other than "Im scared of fat" If you want to slow bulk, follow a LG style protocol of 20/20 otherwise do a normal cut and bulk cycle

Hendrix7

Well that's definitely complicated mate hehe.

Few points, your training deadlifts and squats on consecutive days. Yes deads hit the back they also massively recruit the low back, glutes and hams...which you will be training again the following day when squatting. You might find that's just too much to handle and it's probably not optimal anyway. If you going to try that make sure you are doing a lot of mobility stuff and foam rolling etc.

If you are concerned about staying lean while bulking, just keep the calorie excess at about 300 cals per day, every day. Calorie cycling when bulking isn't worth it imo.

I would suggest a basic push/pull/legs routine or upper/lower split.

Zero2hero2013

hehe i have had alot of time on my hands,

so do you reckon a ppl and 300 cals would help me get any leaner? to be honest i am thinking of stopping cutting and starting a very lean bulk, previously i have had to consume 750-1000 calorie surplus daily to gain weight while training but i was gaining fat also. maybe sticking to a 300-500 surplus for 6 months is the way forward, let my body adapt and stabalise, while i focus on simply improving in the gym. which hopefully should results in improvements in the mirror.

would it be worth alternating my reps every 8 weeks or so or go 3x8, 3x12 through out?

Hendrix7

so do you reckon a ppl and 300 cals would help me get any leaner? to be honest i am thinking of stopping cutting and starting a very lean bulk,

if you are in a calorie excess you won't get leaner.

You have to bulk or cut, can't do both.

previously i have had to consume 750-1000 calorie surplus daily to gain weight while training but i was gaining fat also

you were probably expecting too much or miscalculated your figures. There really isn't any point being far over a 500 cal surplus per day. There is a limit to how much muscle you can synthesize per month naturally and it's really not much, 2-3lbs a month at the most.

Eating 1000 over maintenance wont give you 4 times the muscle gains of eating 250 over.

FoxyMcDeadlift

You're a big guy mate, and i've always thought you eat a bit too little for my personal preferences. I think you need in your head, one clear goal. Just the one. Things get complicated when you try to over extend yourself, i failed my bench today because i went for a run for example. But, outside of this short term cut i do have one clear goal, and thats a big *kitten* squat and deadlift. Because i know thats my goal, more or less everything is centred around that. Like Hendrix said, you need to decide whether you want to be shredded, or if you want to be strong. For most of us, we compromise by dedicating ourselves to strength during the bulk , and aesthetics during the cut.

Traditional lean bulking has you just eating in or around maintenance, you will gain, but so marginally its just not worth it imo

Zero2hero2013

i think your right, i want to focus on strength in the gym, and eating at 500 cal surplus.

Zero2hero2013

i think i might pull out of this challenge, i think i have lost enough weight to continue bulking again, i.e im the leanest i need to be.

i think as from next monday i am going to go into surplus eating again, gonna start off at 300+ then after 1 week up it to 500 then wait 2 weeks and re think depending on outcome.
im not aiming to be perfect during the bulk but to gain muscle and try not to gain too much fat wit too many cheat days.

i have used 2 day splits in the past and like them but i think i might try a ppl as hendrix mentioned. lots of people have recommended it so i guess its worth a good shot at it.
my aims are to build strength in all core lifts (primary)
gain muscle (secondary)
minimise fat (third if possible)

Zero2hero2013

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/bulldozer-training-4-day-mini-dozer-workout-split
i was wandering what peoples thoughts on this were? it would suit my time capacity for working out as i have 45-60 mins monday to friday at lunch to workout and these seem to be short and sweet. also it includes all my favourite exercises and sets it out in a way i can understand. and i like the progressive idea. set number of sets, varied reps but clear goals. if i was going ot do it to make it as easy to perform and straightforward in the gym i would use this combination.


when stating upto if i can get 30 reps next session il add 2.5kgs, or 5kg for squats and deadlifts

day 1
chest and triceps

Bench press
7 sets, upto 30 reps, aim 3- 5 reps starting weight 70kg,

incline bench press/dumbell press
7 sets, upto 35, aim 4-5 reps, starting weight 55kg, not sure on this one,

weighted dips,
7 sets, 3-5 reps, normally i can do around 10-15 so im gonna try 10kg added to start.


Day 2
back,bi and abs

my favourite deadlifts!
aim, 15 reps with in 10 mins, all singles with good form, gonna try 130kg for the first go but expect a little higher.

barbell row
7 sets, 4-5 reps upto 35, 60kg begin wieght, expect to add to this

standing dumbell curl,
7 sets 5-7 reps upto 45, never done this before,

crunches and weighted leg raises


Day 3 rest

Day 4
shoulders traps and forearms

seated ohp, 7 sets, 3-5 reps gonna say 45kg

barbell shrugs
5 sets 7-8 reps

bent over reverse flys
5 sets 7-8 reps

day 5
squats
3 sets, 5-7 reps upto 20 then add 5kg

leg extension
5 sets 7-8 reps upto 45 then add weight all previous are then same add weight when able to get 7-8 reps in each set

leg curl
5 sets 7-8 reps upto 45

calf raises on leg press,
5 sets, 10-12 reps upto 55

day 6 and 7 rest.


i really like this programme and i think with an aggressive approach pushing each session it could be effective. i think this is also its weakness, could easily get stuck and forget to challenge yourself.

im going to continuilly aim to get to max reps in a session then as soon as i achieve it up the weight and push for the max reps again and repeat. i have always liked the rep aproach of increasing weights.








day 2

chrisdavey

i think your right, i want to focus on strength in the gym, and eating at a moderate surplus.

fixed

The surplus will be slightly different for different people.

As I generally train the same for cutting or bulking the only other factor is cals in. So I work off gross numbers. For a bulk started at 2800 and increased if I didn't put on weight. (aiming for 2lbs per month)

For a cut I started at 2500 and decreased if I didn't lose weight. (averaged over time)

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

I'm similar with the complicated plans. It's just how I operate. I think sometimes over-complicating things can backfire because we don't know which factor is causing which result---so when it comes to modifications it isn't as simple as say--reducing exercise volume, training a muscle group less frequently, or increasing calories--it could be any number of things (just as an example).

I know that for me I have a problem with identifying a goal and keeping that goal in mind. Sometimes I tell myself to hell with it--I'd rather be smokin hott than strong but then I think well damn if I couldn't lift that would suck majorly.

anywho--my point is that you should do what will make you HAPPIEST in the long run. Eating at a surplus will increase size and strength--provided you're training properly--while you'll compromise both if you're not eating enough. You can always do traditional bulk/cut cycles to optimize size. But of course you know this.

Well, best of luck. I'll be reading and following along with your progress.

chrisdavey

I forgot to mention that attempted short term bulks with mini cuts over that sort of time frame will most likely end up just spinning you're wheels and going no where. That is "basically" what I did with my fail bulk last year. Just didn't eat enough consistently. Yes I was still slowly increasing strength though nothing in comparison to this year's bulk.

Choose long term goal.

Pick a short term goal to head in that direction.

FoxyMcDeadlift

i think your right, i want to focus on strength in the gym, and eating at a moderate surplus.

fixed

The surplus will be slightly different for different people.

As I generally train the same for cutting or bulking the only other factor is cals in. So I work off gross numbers. For a bulk started at 2800 and increased if I didn't put on weight. (aiming for 2lbs per month)

For a cut I started at 2500 and decreased if I didn't lose weight. (averaged over time)

I took the slightly less conservative approach of a 25-300kcalish cut and a 3000ishkcal bulk. I actually ended up around 3300ish at the end of my bulk

Zero2hero2013

so i think i will try to behave between now and sunday which will be my final few days of cutting. sunday il probably aim for maintenance ready for mondays session
then monday i will start at 3000 cals, my metabloism seems to be pretty predictable, and will adapt after 1 week easily to 500 suplus calories. i will try to keep my diet reasonable but know that i will fail if i try to keep it clean all the time. i think this time instead of trying to be good during the week and have a cheat day, because i am bulking im going to try and incorporate a little bit of junk daily, might even allow myself 250-500 cals of bad food daily. i am having a rather hard time with my diet recently cant seem to muster the motivation to cook and end up eating things that i can grab very easily. i.e cereal...

i need to find a way to make my diet something that i can follow and adhere too, also i was thinking of buying a metabolism booster for energy. i think my new job has been mentally tiring me out alot more then my previous and is effecting things.

although burning more calories isnt really optimal, does anyone know of an energy booster that wont hinder bulking?

Hendrix7

I would just go with basic caffeine. Nothing outside of ECA or clen is going to have any massive effect on metabolism.

Got to be careful though can be addictive and it blunts your appetite which isn't what you want sometimes.

I take these pre-workout sometimes, cheap and does the job. (only take 1 and not after 6pm if you want to sleep that night)

http://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/caffeine-tablets.html

You don't want to get to the point when you are reliant on these, if you are tired all the time look at your sleeping patterns and what you eat.