Suggested "Eats" while running
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Jonathan, thank you for your input, VERY helpful.0
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I think it is disingenuous to equate how long the human body can survive without water or food with our water or fuel needs while running.
The human body may be able to survive 3 days without water when sedentary, that doesn't mean that you can long distance run for three days without water. The exertion level, sweat level, etc. is no where near the same. I challenge the idea that you can survive in the desert for 3 days without water. Some people could, some people couldn't. Again, it would depend a lot on your exertion level, if you were in the sun or the shade, how you were dressed, your age and weight, etc.
Additionally, survival is quite different than comfort or peak performance. Sure you can survive a long run without water, (depending on your exertion, the temperature, etc., some people would pass out, experience cardiac symptoms, experience headaches or confusion, have seizures, or die,) but could you be performing better if you had water? If you had food? Survival is really not the question here, but performance, maintaining your health, and being able to attack the rest of your day with vigor.
Just so nobody thinks that I'm being over-dramatic about the possibility of dying due to dehydration during a run, even though that's not really the point of my post:
http://www.fros-t.com/uploads/Running_Why_Do_Marathoners_Die.pdf
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/15506806-418/experts-debate-dehydration-finding-in-last-years-chicago-marathon-death.html
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/tel-aviv-marathon-runner-dies-as-a-result-of-severe-dehydration-1.355325
http://uswe-sports.com/page/Dehydration_1018/ENG/EUR
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-07-14/news/0407140271_1_grand-canyon-phantom-ranch-south-rim
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-02-23/news/31093094_1_tv-station-candy-bar-face-murder-chargesI have yet to encounter a training run that required food, up to 22 miles. I have also done 22 miles with no water with no ill effects in mild conditions (finishing temperatures in the low 70°F range). I have taken water on runs over 15 miles when the temperatures are going to exceed about 82°F. It's nice to have, but I don't believe it is necessary to have. The human body can survive for 2 to 3 days in the desert without food or water. Surely I can make it through a 3 hour run.
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I think it is disingenuous to equate how long the human body can survive without water or food with our water or fuel needs while running.
The human body may be able to survive 3 days without water when sedentary, that doesn't mean that you can long distance run for three days without water. The exertion level, sweat level, etc. is no where near the same. I challenge the idea that you can survive in the desert for 3 days without water. Some people could, some people couldn't. Again, it would depend a lot on your exertion level, if you were in the sun or the shade, how you were dressed, your age and weight, etc.
Additionally, survival is quite different than comfort or peak performance. Sure you can survive a long run without water, (depending on your exertion, the temperature, etc., some people would pass out, experience cardiac symptoms, experience headaches or confusion, have seizures, or die,) but could you be performing better if you had water? If you had food? Survival is really not the question here, but performance, maintaining your health, and being able to attack the rest of your day with vigor.
Just so nobody thinks that I'm being over-dramatic about the possibility of dying due to dehydration during a run, even though that's not really the point of my post:
http://www.fros-t.com/uploads/Running_Why_Do_Marathoners_Die.pdf
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/15506806-418/experts-debate-dehydration-finding-in-last-years-chicago-marathon-death.html
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/tel-aviv-marathon-runner-dies-as-a-result-of-severe-dehydration-1.355325
http://uswe-sports.com/page/Dehydration_1018/ENG/EUR
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-07-14/news/0407140271_1_grand-canyon-phantom-ranch-south-rim
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-02-23/news/31093094_1_tv-station-candy-bar-face-murder-chargesI have yet to encounter a training run that required food, up to 22 miles. I have also done 22 miles with no water with no ill effects in mild conditions (finishing temperatures in the low 70°F range). I have taken water on runs over 15 miles when the temperatures are going to exceed about 82°F. It's nice to have, but I don't believe it is necessary to have. The human body can survive for 2 to 3 days in the desert without food or water. Surely I can make it through a 3 hour run.
I'll address this in detail when I get to work on Monday, but did you even read the articles in the links you posted? I just briefly looked at the one from the Sun Times and it says that TWO experts dispute the autopsy findings that dehydration led to the man's death. There is a HUGE dehydration myth being perpetuated by the BEVERAGE industry. Please read this link and I'll expand on it even more on Monday.
http://www.runningtimes.com/Print.aspx?articleID=264810 -
Pdworkman,
Thank you for the post. It's not that I want to take sides with one or the other BUT my husband, who is very healthy and slim and has been running short distances ( 3-7ish miles) for years, could not run over 18 using deprivation training.
He found that when he was trying to run that long a distance, he has to plan for it. I'm sure some people, especially those who have trained at long distance running for years, CAN do it. But whether it's safe - eh, I'm sure it's probably safe for THEM.
But newcomers, looking for information and answers, should not feel like the black sheep, just for asking the questions. That's how I felt until you and a couple others posted here - like I was in the wrong place to ask genuine questions.
I figured this group would be very supportive but it's more an uncomfortable place - I do not feel comfortable asking/answering questions here.0 -
I figured this group would be very supportive but it's more an uncomfortable place - I do not feel comfortable asking/answering questions here.
I sincerely apologize if my comments have in any way contributed to this feeling. It certainly was not my intent. I'm very passionate about this subject because there is a lot of misinformation being foist upon us by an organization that is funded by Gatorade.
The guidelines that have been stated are based on really bad science. I can't quote it all, but the article I posted above is an excerpt from the book I am currently reading on the subject. Dr. Noakes reviews all relevant research from the last 100+ years and illuminates the errors within, some because of the nonavailability of proper measurement equipment and others simply from fallacious reasoning. The public is starting to come around. In 2003 new recommendations were made stating that one should attempt to drink as much as is lost during a race. This was a departure from the previous recommendation stating that one should drink ahead of thirst. The reality is that, the fastest runners lose the highest percentage of body weight in fluids and that dehydration rates of 7% of body weight are not uncommon nor are they dangerous. The human body has very complex control mechanisms to ensure that we don't put ourselves under a dangerous amount of stress.
But I digress. Please don't hesitate to ask your questions here. There are many people in this group that are eager to help the new or the experienced runner.0 -
Rather than debating the science or propaganda, I propose simply to share what works for me. Which may work for you, or may not, depending on your body and the way that it functions. I do not claim to be a medical professional, or even an experienced runner. I'm still a beginner, experimenting with what works for me and how to best improve my training.
I have not yet sold my soul to the refreshment companies. My beverage of choice on a run, before, or after, is water. I have had runs where I did not have enough water and have been extremely dry, tired, and had a splitting headache at the end. But I do not subscribe to the "drink all you can", "drink until you can hear it sloshing in your stomach", or "drink to replace everything you've lost" camps. I have an irritable bladder, and if I drink too much I have to make too many pit stops, which slows down my time and can be extremely inconvenient. If I was to drink until I could hear it sloshing in my stomach, I would undoubtedly throw up. So I'm pretty much a "drink to comfort" or "drink when thirsty" kind of runner. If I slow down or take a walk break, I take a swallow or two of water. If I am thirsty or getting a pounding headache, I stop and drink more. If I am out of water at the end of a long run, I plan better for next time.
How about eating on a run? I don't go for the commercial gels and candies, though I do enjoy a few Sharkies or Stingers now and then. They are expensive, and are the only brands I can have, due to allergies. My preferred snack if I need something on a long run (I feel I do not need any on a short run) is a homemade trail mix. Raisins, seeds, and maybe a few chocolate chips thrown in.
That's what works for my body. For others, it may make them nauseous, slow them down, or cause other complications. For me, that's what works.0 -
I was at a half marathon over the weekend and one stand had packets of salt they were giving out.
What does salt do for a runner?0 -
I was at a half marathon over the weekend and one stand had packets of salt they were giving out.
What does salt do for a runner?
In my opinion? Nothing. Not for anything marathon distance or shorter. The body has internal mechanisms that keep all the electrolytes in perfect balance. One has to sweat a LOT over a long period of time before the body doesn't have sodium in reserves to maintain homeostasis.
Edit: Sweat, not sweet. I have tasty treats on my mind. 0 -
Thanks0
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And just to show the other side of the argument:
My last long run was 21 miles. I did it with no fluids and no fuel. I did 2x4miles at 7:25ish pace in the last half (MP) and the overall pace was 8:24 minute per mile. I could have gone longer.
WOW!! I want to be like you.
I am so slow.
I don't have fluids or "fuel supplements" either. As I was reading all of the responses, I was thinking maybe getting some GU would help, but now I don't know.0 -
I rarely eat anything while doing training runs but for race day I prefer a homemade Gel/Gu made with honey, blackstrap molasses and salt.
This + lemon juice & water makes up my bottle rather than Cytomax type drinks.
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I have been told in the past that lemon helps the body get rid of water. Wouldn't/shouldn't you worry about dehydration when doing such long runs?0 -
I am very lucky that for the first hour and a half I don't need anything but I cannot run without carb loading first. I did my first 10 k after a three course meal, I am known for an iron stomach... I have a problem when I drink in that cold stuff is very difficult to drink so tea is my fave...0
