Seriously?! He said that!

cinsuccess

I just had to vent a little. I met this guy last night from okc. I was really excited because we had so much in common and he was totally my type. Well, within the first 10 minutes we started talking about the issues we've had in finding "the one" and he says he doesn't want any kids. I'm very careful when responding to ads and his said that he was open to kids if it was important to the woman so I asked him why his ad said that....

His response "I am open to it with someone much younger but, no offense, I'd never consider having kids with someone pushing 40"

Seriously??!!!

Why did you even respond to my ad? I clearly have on it that I want kids. I would think that if it's such a dealbreaker, a guy would at least look at the "details" box to make sure if I have/want kids even if he's not reading the rest of my profile. :grumble:

Vent over. Thanks for listening.

DMZ_1

I'm not a fan of talking about kids on a first date, especially within the first 10 mins.

Did he explain in more detail why he feels that way?

After mid to late 20s, many men exhibit a stronger preference for a younger woman.

I see your point about the details box. But the vast majority of women put in a details box that they want children, so the onion needs to be peeled a bit on that. Just something in the details box alone isn't going to be sufficient, as it needs greater context.

JanieJack

Probably for the same reason that get upset with me and say I'm too big. Huh? Did you not look at my pictures?

Sorry that guy was such a jerk to you. Maybe what he’s really saying is, "I checked the "want kids" button because most women want kids and if I don't pretend to want them too I won't get any. I'm open to it with someone younger b/c I'm gonna leaver her hanging and it will be *her* responsibility. Someone older and wiser will hang me out to dry.”

Good thing for you this came out on the first date, and not after you're become emotionally attached.

will010574

Almost every details box has info that needs some further discussion. Kids and whether or not they are in the future is always something that needs to be discussed, probably not on a first date, but it does need to be discussed so in that case I dont pay attention to the details block as much.

What does help and a lot of people do put in their commentary is something along the lines of a qualifier. For instance I have kids and am not looking to have anymore so when I see in someone else's commentary that any single dads is a dealbreaker I dont bother responding, or when I see in the commentary that she really wants kids and anyone not looking to have kids is a dealbreaker again, I dont reply to those ads. But just putting wants kids in the details box obviously (as per your date) isnt going to get it done.

cinsuccess

I'm not a fan of talking about kids on a first date, especially within the first 10 mins.

Did he explain in more detail why he feels that way?

After mid to late 20s, many men exhibit a stronger preference for a younger woman.

I see your point about the details box. But the vast majority of women put in a details box that they want children, so the onion needs to be peeled a bit on that. Just something in the details box alone isn't going to be sufficient, as it needs greater context.

I don't usually bring up kids either. He said that it was one of the major obstacles he's faced when dating because he absolutely doesn't want any. I couldn't avoid it at that point because I didn't want him to think I was ok with that.

I have no issues with guys preferring younger women. He knew I was 40 when he emailed me. I did ask him what his feelings were and he said that he felt that he didn't want to bring a life into a world that was so messed up. So I asked about adoption (I actually prefer the idea of adoption anyway) - That's when he made the comment about a younger woman. BTW - he was 42.

cinsuccess

What does help and a lot of people do put in their commentary is something along the lines of a qualifier. For instance I have kids and am not looking to have anymore so when I see in someone else's commentary that any single dads is a dealbreaker I dont bother responding, or when I see in the commentary that she really wants kids and anyone not looking to have kids is a dealbreaker again, I dont reply to those ads. But just putting wants kids in the details box obviously (as per your date) isnt going to get it done.

Thanks. This is good advice. I should probably put in the commentary that I'm actively exploring adoption so they'll know.

pa_jorg

We all agree that there are many cons to online dating. However, this is supposed to be one of the pros - the ability to quickly weed people out based on a lifestyle choice like having or wanting children. It frustrates me too when guys are wishy washy on this topic past a certain age.

I see your point about the details box. But the vast majority of women put in a details box that they want children, so the onion needs to be peeled a bit on that.

DM, I disagree that the onion needs to be peeled. Most women write that, because they want kids, simple as that. It's biological to want them, so why do men act surprised when we do? I never understand that.

JanieJack

It's biological to want them, so why do men act surprised when we do? I never understand that.

Because men don't treat that box the way women do. What the guys here are telling us ladies is that most men check the “want kids” or “not sure I want kids” box whether or not they want kids. A man may not need to “peel back the onion” on whether a woman wants kids because a) she usually ones and b) she’s usually up front about it.

But a man, as evidenced by this discussion and the guys I’ve talked to personally, will NOT be upfront about it until they’re 100% sure they are not interested long term. Then they will be honest about not wanting kids (or even just say that so she’ll dump him and he’ll be free of her w/o having to feel like the jerk).

If they *are* interested long term, sometimes they will be upfront and sometimes they won’t. How many of our friends have been in relationships where the man strung the woman along about the kids issue?




It’s like DTD on the first date. Most women will say (or imply indirectly) they don’t do this… but the man peels back the onion to discover that many times they will.

pa_jorg

What the guys here are telling us ladies is that most men check the “want kids” or “not sure I want kids” box whether or not they want kids.

Janie, I agree that this happens. The men who do it are immature, just want their cake and to eat it too, regardless of who they lie to or hurt in the process.

flimflamfloz

Women are on fire on this topic. So let me fuel that fire a bit!

So, I want kids (probably) although I think I don't want them anytime soon. Truth is kids are very far at the back of my mind, certainly not a concern and an interest at all. I feel no need (biological or whatsoever) and don't care, don't want to start a family soon. Not at all. So really, I don't >want< kids. Well not now.
Yet I want kids. If I find the right girl now, maybe in 5 or 10 years, I'll feel like yes now we should have kids. Then again, maybe I'll change my mind. Half a decade is a long time. One's mind can change in such a long amount of time.

So because most people are rather on the "thick" side and want things to fit in their boxes, then I'd rather be consensual and simply say "yes, I want kids" or preferably "I don't know". But the real answer should be "I don't care at this point, come back to me when it matters to me".
So yes, admittedly I'm not a match for someone who wants kids right now or in a year. Truth is from my point of view, a woman who says "want kids" scares me a little bit as someone who is ready to settle down too quickly, and has won pre-date "clingy points".
I find it stressing to talk about kids so early anyway... To me it's doing things the wrong way around. Ideally, you need to find the proper partner, then have kids. This becomes a valid filter though if both partners feel they want kids now.

Anyway, as Will said, this is probably one of these topics that needs a good follow up conversation. No, a simple box is not enough to talk about this topic.
And no, I don't want to talk about it in my profile main text, since it cramps my style. We're supposed to be light-hearted and fun, not talk about what we think about the israelo-palestinian conflict (or kids), otherwise people get bored (and also there are about 10 important topics I should talk about in there).

Anyway, you clarified this early, so I agree with those who said online dating did its job here!

@ JJ - if you read profiles, the kids' situation is all explained in there . Sometimes.

JanieJack

@ JJ - if you read profiles, the kids' situation is all explained in there . Sometimes.

haha not usually. In fact, a lot of times I didn’t even read the profiles AFTER going out on a first date because so much of it was false information!!

FWIW, I've met quite a few guys who DID want to have kids, and they DID bring it up early on. This might be because *my* box is checked "Don't want more kids, but it's ok if my partner already has kids"

But I’ve met more guys who say they want kids and when I ask them about it (because I do NOT want to bear more children and I want to make sure we’re not wasting each other’s time) they are the ones who say something like, “Oh, I just checked that because most women here want kids and if I don’t check yes then no one will go out with me.”

AnnaPixie

I'm not a fan of talking about kids on a first date, especially within the first 10 mins.

Did he explain in more detail why he feels that way?

After mid to late 20s, many men exhibit a stronger preference for a younger woman.

I see your point about the details box. But the vast majority of women put in a details box that they want children, so the onion needs to be peeled a bit on that. Just something in the details box alone isn't going to be sufficient, as it needs greater context.

I don't usually bring up kids either. He said that it was one of the major obstacles he's faced when dating because he absolutely doesn't want any. I couldn't avoid it at that point because I didn't want him to think I was ok with that.

I have no issues with guys preferring younger women. He knew I was 40 when he emailed me. I did ask him what his feelings were and he said that he felt that he didn't want to bring a life into a world that was so messed up. So I asked about adoption (I actually prefer the idea of adoption anyway) - That's when he made the comment about a younger woman. BTW - he was 42.

Go find yourself a younger man, he's obviously past it!!

I can't even begin to imagine what type of d1ckhead he is to come out with a statement like that at his age!! Urgh!!

TheKitsune6

I think Flam hit the nail on the head. A lot of times guys and gals just have different ways of communicating their preferences. When a guy puts that he doesn't want kids, it's usually because it wouldn't work RIGHT NOW, but more often than not once they find someone they actually see a future with then they want kids. So not wanting children doesn't necessarily mean never, it just means it's not on the horizon yet.

Women see the question and say "Sure, in ten years I might want kids" so they put "yes", but that gets confused with the women who also say "Hell yeah, I want kids yesterday!"

So the guy that you went on with on a date may have seen your answer as less definitive than you intended it. He's not a rotten person it's just a miscommunication between strangers. That happens sometimes. Really how frustrating could it be? You met a person, had a meal or a drink or whatever and basically were two ships passing in the night. No big deal. I highly doubt there was intended deception or manipulation involved.

pa_jorg

I think Flam hit the nail on the head. A lot of times guys and gals just have different ways of communicating their preferences. When a guy puts that he doesn't want kids, it's usually because it wouldn't work RIGHT NOW, but more often than not once they find someone they actually see a future with then they want kids. So not wanting children doesn't necessarily mean never, it just means it's not on the horizon yet.

Women see the question and say "Sure, in ten years I might want kids" so they put "yes", but that gets confused with the women who also say "Hell yeah, I want kids yesterday!"

'

Yes, I do agree with the two of you that it can be a miscommunication about timing. However, I'm looking for guys at least in their 30s, so I don't feel like it should be such a shocking question as it sometimes can seem. That said, even though I am vocal about my annoyance of the topic here, it isn't a subject I'm bringing up on the first few dates either (contrary to popular belief I am not a psycho ). Yes, I would like kids *relatively* soon due to my age, but I'm also not one of those women who is panicking about it either, yet I would rather some degree of honesty up front.

NCTravellingGirl

Almost every details box has info that needs some further discussion. Kids and whether or not they are in the future is always something that needs to be discussed, probably not on a first date, but it does need to be discussed so in that case I dont pay attention to the details block as much.

What does help and a lot of people do put in their commentary is something along the lines of a qualifier. For instance I have kids and am not looking to have anymore so when I see in someone else's commentary that any single dads is a dealbreaker I dont bother responding, or when I see in the commentary that she really wants kids and anyone not looking to have kids is a dealbreaker again, I dont reply to those ads. But just putting wants kids in the details box obviously (as per your date) isnt going to get it done.

I really think Will's point is key (as well as Flam's). I have on there that I want kids; I used to have that I'm undecided. I changed it because I felt like I needed to be more clear that I do want them but it's not a deal breaker either way if they're still open to it (yet is if they won't at all). Putting undecided left it open for ME, but I don't think I'm doing THEM any favors so I changed it.

I LOVE it when men spell out honestly in their profile where they stand. If it's something they won't do, it's not worth me opening that door so I can make that choice up front and vice versa!

MikeM53082

I think everyone is entirely over-analyzing the situation.

In my profile, I put "might want kids" or something along those lines. Therefore if I'm not interested at all, I can use this as an easy out. I know that kids are a deal breaker for women, most men I know don't feel this way and can usually go either way on the issue.

Instead of poofing on her or saying "I don't want to roll around naked with you". I can just use a line like "The more and more I think about it, I don't think fatherhood is for me" and that's an effective way of getting out of the date early and having her not wanting to hassle you for date #2.

JanieJack

I think everyone is entirely over-analyzing the situation.
...
Instead of poofing on her or saying "I don't want to roll around naked with you". I can just use a line like "The more and more I think about it, I don't think fatherhood is for me" and that's an effective way of getting out of the date early and having her not wanting to hassle you for date #2.

Actually, I think this is right in line with what we're saying.

DMZ_1

In my profile, I put "might want kids" or something along those lines. Therefore if I'm not interested at all, I can use this as an easy out. I know that kids are a deal breaker for women, most men I know don't feel this way and can usually go either way on the issue.

Instead of poofing on her or saying "I don't want to roll around naked with you". I can just use a line like "The more and more I think about it, I don't think fatherhood is for me" and that's an effective way of getting out of the date early and having her not wanting to hassle you for date #2.

This is a very practical approach for men in handling things.

DMZ_1

Good topics. Lots of juicy content in here.

I should probably put in the commentary that I'm actively exploring adoption so they'll know.

I'm not entirely sure that this is the best approach. Actively exploring adoption could scare off some men. I think there is a value in alone time as a couple prior to kids, even if they are adopted. Adoption paperwork is arduous and time consuming for sure. But some guys might think fatherhood, even via adoption, could come before they are ready for it. A kid could show up one day without a lot of notice. I view adoption, in itself, as a very humanitarian and kind option, but relationship context could be a relevant factor.

I think Flam hit the nail on the head. A lot of times guys and gals just have different ways of communicating their preferences. When a guy puts that he doesn't want kids, it's usually because it wouldn't work RIGHT NOW, but more often than not once they find someone they actually see a future with then they want kids. So not wanting children doesn't necessarily mean never, it just means it's not on the horizon yet.

Women see the question and say "Sure, in ten years I might want kids" so they put "yes", but that gets confused with the women who also say "Hell yeah, I want kids yesterday!"

I also agree on Flam’s analysis. And yes, there’s a huge difference between wanting kids 3,5,10 years in the future vs. being on an accelerated time table for kids. For many men, this is why women in their 30s are undesirable. Guys can father children for a very long time (having the energy to raise them is a different story). The parts only work for women for a finite time. Women over 30 and especially over 35 have a rep for being too baby centric, and guys are not usually inclined to rush into babies, even when guys are 35+.

That said, even though I am vocal about my annoyance of the topic here, it isn't a subject I'm bringing up on the first few dates either (contrary to popular belief I am not a psycho ). Yes, I would like kids *relatively* soon due to my age, but I'm also not one of those women who is panicking about it either, yet I would rather some degree of honesty up front.

That seems fair and reasonable.

But I’ve met more guys who say they want kids and when I ask them about it (because I do NOT want to bear more children and I want to make sure we’re not wasting each other’s time) they are the ones who say something like, “Oh, I just checked that because most women here want kids and if I don’t check yes then no one will go out with me.”

Your point of view in this quote is very valid. A guy who genuinely doesn’t want kids and is attempting to date and/or mate with women of child bearing age faces a difficult quandary. With online dating, listing that online will drastically reduce the amount of women who interact with him. In offline scenarios, if this is said too early on, it can end something.

It’s a different world. Back in the days when everyone got married for life prior to their 26th birthdays, most had aligned world views and wanted kids together, but they often had sufficient pre-child couple time together. The child changes the dynamics. I also think this issue wasn’t as common. And to the original scenario, there was very little formation of new relationships after age 30, 35, 40, etc.

pa_jorg

I should probably put in the commentary that I'm actively exploring adoption so they'll know.

I'm not entirely sure that this is the best approach. Actively exploring adoption could scare off some men. I think there is a value in alone time as a couple prior to kids, even if they are adopted. Adoption paperwork is arduous and time consuming for sure. But some guys might think fatherhood, even via adoption, could come before they are ready for it. A kid could show up one day without a lot of notice. I view adoption, in itself, as a very humanitarian and kind option, but relationship context could be a relevant factor.

Yes, but if her desire to adopt (or have children) is greater than her desire for a relationship at this point, why put it on hold to wait for Mr. Right, who may or may not show up? Yes, it will likely be a tough conversation if she starts dating someone between now and the adoption, but if it's the 'right' guy, he'll understand how important it is to her.

MikeM53082

Yes, but if her desire to adopt (or have children) is greater than her desire for a relationship at this point, why put it on hold to wait for Mr. Right, who may or may not show up? Yes, it will likely be a tough conversation if she starts dating someone between now and the adoption, but if it's the 'right' guy, he'll understand how important it is to her.

Don't you think that might deter Mr Right if he does come knocking at a later time ( and not some guy who just happens to be 'cool with it')?

For me, if a woman has an adopted child and was never married, I would consider it to be very different and would probably not be interested once thing got serious.