A symptom of ketosis?

kabirmasto

I am quite new to low carb, been fairly low carb (under 100g) for a while, but decided to try the marksdailyapple.com 21-day primal challenge. It officially ended yesterday but I began a few days after the official start so I am still in it, and honestly don't think I'll stop at 21. Anyway, so on about day 7 I went into ketosis. It took me a while to figure it out, as the metallic taste in my mouth wasn't immediately apparent, but I have this other symptom and I have googled and searched all the forums but can't find anyone else talking about it! So I thought I'd ask here in the hope of finding at least one kindred soul.... :-)

Bear with me as I try to describe this. On that particular morning (day 7) I made a large 4 egg bacon and mushroom omelet for my child and I to share, and of course he only ate about half an egg's worth and guess who ate ALL the rest!? So for the whole day i had this feeling in the back of my throat, it is almost a feeling of being full, like way too full. And that is of course what I attributed it to, and I only ate again in the late evening. But the next day I woke up with the same feeling, and then next, and then i guessed that it had to do with ketosis. I am definitely burning fat, i am averaging between 30 and 40g of carbs a day and have masses of energy, so i think i AM in ketosis. And the metallic taste is there. But this feeling is also there... (BTW, I live in rural India so no chance of those little ketone test strips for me)

Another way to describe it, and i know it sounds weird, but you know when you are getting a throat infection, and the first day or two you have an itchy throat, so you swallow a lot in an attempt to "scratch' it? And you end up swallowing a lot of air and you feel like you have this bubble of air at the back of your throat all the time? :blushing: maybe I'm the only one who experiences this too, but i have my whole life, whenever i've got a sore throat. Anyway, this is the sort of feeling i have all the time since ketosis started, kind of like a bit of a constriction in the throat. Sounds horrible, i know, and it isn't very pleasant, although it is also not too bad and I can DEFINITELY live with one bad side effect with all the countless fabulous ones I'm feeling, but that's for another post...

So, anyone else ever feel anything remotely like this???

TheVimFuego

Interesting, are you eating anything in quantities that you wouldn't normally (to compensate for the lack of carbs)?

A lot of dairy (milk, cheese, yoghurt ...) maybe?

Just thinking it may be a food intolerance.

Or it could be a lack of mucus, which can happen to some who severely restrict carbs, this is discussed elsewhere but the solution is to add in some sweet potato and see if the symptoms disappear.

http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/11/dangers-of-zero-carb-diets-ii-mucus-deficiency-and-gastrointestinal-cancers/

kabirmasto

That's interesting. I'm not eating dairy at all, so it can't be that. But actually, this morning I was wondering why I still have a slight feeling of mucous/post-nasal drip, which I have suffered from a bit in the past and always attributed to dairy and wheat. Although it is much improved, I still feel like i have it a little. Going to read the link now. It's such a new feeling and so difficult to describe adequately...

kabirmasto

No, I am definitely not suffering from a dry mouth and eyes. Thank goodness. That was a bit of doom and gloom! I don't want to be reading about stomach cancers!

Anyway, I feel healthy and I am kind of getting used to the feeling, still curious that I can't find anyone else with the same symptom...

wfte

Partially OT but is there any reason why the suggestion is to add sweet potato to prevent some symptoms? Or is this just the carb of choice?

Just wondered as seen it mentioned a few times now and always seems to be sweet potato.

purple_tux1

This is interesting. I had a whole month where I had swallowing trouble. For the first week or two, it felt like something was stuck in my throat. I went to the doctor and she couldnt see anything. Then I had trouble swallowing. I had to use lots and lots of water to swallow anything. It felt like there wasnt enough saliva. Things like scrambled eggs were especially hard. Eventually, the problem disappeared. Ive never had this problem before in my life so I am highly suspicious that my low-carb diet has something to do with it.

I cant remember exactly how low my carbs were at the time. Probably around 30-40 net carbs. I dont feel they are necessarily higher now, but I do have a bagel from time to time.

kabirmasto

That is very interesting. I don't feel like i have a hard time swallowing, but definitely a feeling of something at the back of my throat. I eat loads of fresh veg, avocados and coconut, all with some carb content, so I wouldn't consider myself zero carbs, as the article that DeadVim sent the link for suggested was the cause of lack of saliva. And i feel like i do have enough saliva. If I could find a low-carb friendly doctor I would maybe go for a check up, but I know they will most likely frown upon the low carb/high fat/high protein thing... I will sit it out a few more weeks and see what happens. Did your symptom disappear when you upped your carbs, purple_tux1?

praxisproject

I would bet this is lack of saliva. http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Dry_mouth_syndrome

Track whether you get it all day, or just times of the day, if you see a doctor, they'll need to know this. Track what foods (if any) you have difficulty swallowing or chewing too.

Make sure you're drinking enough, whatever moisture we don't get from food, we need to drink. If you're having more salt or protein than you used to, or if your food is dryer than usual, you'll may need more liquid.

If it's in the morning and evening only, a "dry mouth" toothpaste will help (especially if you're having eggs for breakfast), they have some extra enzymes in them and don't froth up like normal toothpaste. Morning and evening can happen just if you haven't been chewing and/or drinking for awhile (while you sleep or before you go to bed).

Chewing gum will stimulate more saliva naturally, if that doesn't work, see a doctor as there may be more going on. If it goes on for more than a week, see your dentist too, there are implications for your tooth health which need to be managed, but aren't bad if you know what's going on.

Dry mouth or lack of saliva isn't specific to low carb, but can occur with a change in intake, environment or medical conditions. I get dehydrated easily, and this is one of the first symptoms (so are sore/dry eyes). I regularly use a dry mouth toothpaste. If it's called something else in your country, one of the brands in Australia is Biotene, but your dentist or pharmacist should be able to recommend something local.

TheVimFuego

Partially OT but is there any reason why the suggestion is to add sweet potato to prevent some symptoms? Or is this just the carb of choice?

Just wondered as seen it mentioned a few times now and always seems to be sweet potato.

They are generally seen as better alternative to the 'faster acting' carbs ... white potatoes, pasta, etc

They are sources of vitamin C, D, B6, Iron, Potassium, Magnesium and Carotenoids (Which may have some anti-inflammatory effects) (yup, I Googled that).

I hated them at first but they've grown on me, I had some in a frittata just now in fact. Doesn't seem to spike anything for me and is a nice alternative texture.

You can make crispy chips too but I don't have the cookery touch for that just yet

kabirmasto

Thanks, I need to pay it more attention then and see when I feel it most. I live in hot tropical India so drink a good amount of water anyway, naturally. Should I be concerned? I am not one to run off to the doctor and it certainly isn't chronic, whatever it is, just mildly uncomfortable. I haven't noticed any difficulty in swallowing. And to be honest, I haven't really felt like my mouth is dry, but maybe it's a different kind of dryness than I'm used to? It has already been going on for about ten days. I've never heard of a "dry mouth" toothpaste but I will investigate. Thanks for the contribution.

purple_tux1

Did your symptom disappear when you upped your carbs, purple_tux1?

I can't say it's necessarily because of that because my carb levels now are very similar to what they were when this was happening and I don't this problem now.

I'm not that religious at tracking so I can't go back and look. I believe I was eating more ham, beef and celery at the time than I am now. But other than that, what I eat from day to day is pretty consistent.

Around the time I started feeling like I had something stuck in my throat, I had a scary choking episode. I was brushing my teeth and something went down the wrong way and I couldn't get any air in for a good 30 seconds. At the time I assumed my problem was due to paranoia about choking again. However i've I choked like this before and never had that problem. After I read about the low-saliva issue associated with low carb diets I wondered if there was something diet-related that triggered the problem. Still not sure what happened, but very glad the problem's gone. It took a month for it to go away.

kabirmasto

Thanks, that sounds awful. Must have been scary. I don't find my problem that bad, was really just curious, but now I am paying more careful attention to it and i feel like i have plenty of saliva in my mouth, but that maybe everyone is correct and there isn't enough saliva right in the back of my throat. Weird. Need to do a bit of googling and see if there are in fact saliva glands there, because it is odd that i have normal feeling of saliva inside my mouth but not in my throat. Still not sure how worried I should be... I like the idea DeadVim had of adding sweet potatoes to my diet but it is not yet the season for them here. I think they'll be available in the market in the next month or so. Meanwhile I am just watching and waiting. Thanks everyone for the advice. It's great to have this resource!

mstorvik

You know what i got for the first time last month? TONSIL STONES! It felt the same way - something in the back of my throat. i went to look and there was a HUGE one (even the doc said it was huge) back there in all it's glory. I gargled with salt water for two days and it went away. (Gross, that means I swallowed it!) But I had never had one before.... and now I had my first. Really look back there - maybe you will see something white? Just a thought!

Also, it could be the mucus thing... I have dry eyes but I don't have dry mouth. I try to work that sweet potato in... although one ounce a day is a but measly, so i am trying to work in two ounces a day.... Ugh. I hate the carbs!

kabirmasto

I was at the mirror with a torch in a flash! Never heard of such a thing. Luckily it all seems pretty normal back there. But thanks for the suggestion. At least it sounds pretty easy to cure!

foochick

It's familiar, when you get to that point where your appetite is gone completely, other strange things happen. I had some seriously strange things happening as I entered ketosis the first time. I'm gonna advise you toward more water....that helped all of my strange ketotic symptoms, including that 'poisioned throat' feeling.

Timehope

Hi

Salt?

I've been in ketonemia (which I think is the scientific term for what we're all talking about) for three months now (as confirmed by the stix) and I for one have not experienced this particular symptom except perhaps a bit after very strenuous exercise. But I got that symptom sometimes after strenuous exercise long before ketonemia, so...

I'm wondering about two things, though -- according to "The Art & Science of Low Carbohydrate Living" by Volek and Phinney, it takes four to six weeks to fully adapt to ketonemia. Takes that long for the body to build up the appropriate enzymes, etc. Until then you may be in a bit of physical stress. Could this apply to you?

And second, again referring to the above-mentioned book, on a low-carb diet the body loses a lot of water (which you apparently accommodate by drinking plenty) but it also loses a lot of salt & potassium as well. Thus Volek & Phinney suggest salt supplements (such as a couple cups of broth daily) -- most especially if you are engaged in physical activity. I would presume that if you live in rural India you are probably not sitting all day in a Cadillac driving from home to work to shopping mall, and no doubt, neither are you sitting much of the day on the couch watching the latest episode of "Jersey Shore" on TV.

Volek & Phinney, testing elite cyclists who were eating long-term on this diet, always added 5 gm of sodium to their diets. 2 of these grams were in food, the rest in the broth. With this regimen, the cyclists did wonderfully. So, have you tried intentionally adding salt to your diet? It would be interesting to see if that has any effect on your symptom.

cramernh

Hi

Salt?

I've been in ketonemia (which I think is the scientific term for what we're all talking about) for three months now (as confirmed by the stix) and I for one have not experienced this particular symptom except perhaps a bit after very strenuous exercise. But I got that symptom sometimes after strenuous exercise long before ketonemia, so...

I'm wondering about two things, though -- according to "The Art & Science of Low Carbohydrate Living" by Volek and Phinney, it takes four to six weeks to fully adapt to ketonemia. Takes that long for the body to build up the appropriate enzymes, etc. Until then you may be in a bit of physical stress. Could this apply to you?

And second, again referring to the above-mentioned book, on a low-carb diet the body loses a lot of water (which you apparently accommodate by drinking plenty) but it also loses a lot of salt & potassium as well. Thus Volek & Phinney suggest salt supplements (such as a couple cups of broth daily) -- most especially if you are engaged in physical activity. I would presume that if you live in rural India you are probably not sitting all day in a Cadillac driving from home to work to shopping mall, and no doubt, neither are you sitting much of the day on the couch watching the latest episode of "Jersey Shore" on TV.

Volek & Phinney, testing elite cyclists who were eating long-term on this diet, always added 5 gm of sodium to their diets. 2 of these grams were in food, the rest in the broth. With this regimen, the cyclists did wonderfully. So, have you tried intentionally adding salt to your diet? It would be interesting to see if that has any effect on your symptom.

ketonemia/hyperketonemia: confirmed findings of ketones within the blood

ketosis: (aka acidosis) excessive amounts of ketones that are found when testing/expelling urine/urine output

ketoacidosis: unstable excessive amounts of ketones found in testing/expelling urine/urine output due to lack of insulin production and the body's inability to get rid of it. Common in Type 1 patients, but can happen in Type 2. The body can no longer get rid of the ketones