The News Anchor, the email and the response...
castadiva
Posts: 2,016 Member
So, I've seen quite a lot of discussion in various places about the Wisconsin news anchor who responded to an email received from a viewer criticising her appearance, and specifically her weight.
Here is the HuffPost article and link:
Jennifer Livingston, a local news anchor in La Crosse, Wisconsin, responded to a viewer's outrageous attack on her appearance on Tuesday morning.
Livingston recently received an email from a male viewer criticizing her weight. Her husband and fellow news anchor Mike Thompson posted the text to the Facebook page for "WKBT News 8 This Morning."
"I was surprised indeed to witness that your physical condition hasn’t improved for many years," wrote the viewer, who said Livingston was not a "suitable example" for young girls. "I leave you this note hoping that you’ll reconsider your responsibility as a local public personality to present and promote a healthy lifestyle."
Livingston addressed her bully on-air Tuesday, prefacing her message by saying that she has received words of support from "hundreds" of people and that the response has been "truly inspiring."
“The truth is, I am overweight," she said. "But to the person who wrote me that letter, do you think I don’t know that? That your cruel words are pointing out something that I don’t see? You don't know me... so you know nothing about me but what you see on the outside and I am much more than a number on a scale."
Livingston continued, "That man’s words mean nothing to me, but really angers me about this is is there are children who don’t know better — who get emails as critical as the one I received or in many cases, even worse, each and every day."
She said that bullying scared her as the mother of three daughters. "If you are at home and you are talking about the fat newslady, guess what?" she said. "Your children are probably going to go to school and call someone fat."
Livingston thanked the viewers, friends and colleagues who have stood up for her, and ended with these words:
“I leave you with this: To all of the children out there who feel lost, who are struggling with your weight, with the color of your skin, your sexual preference, your disability, even the acne on your face, listen to me right now. do not let your self-worth be defined by bullies. Learn from my experience — that the cruel words of one are nothing compared to the shouts of many.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/02/jennifer-livingston-anchor-obesity-letter_n_1932869.html?utm_hp_ref=women&ir=Women
The full email is also viewable on the site.
Do we a) think this was an appropriate response? b) Consider this viewer's unsolicited email to be 'bullying' and/or c) believe that News presenters/people in the public eye have a duty to represent a "healthy lifestyle" in the manner that phrase is generally understood by Joe Public ie. slim?
Here is the HuffPost article and link:
Jennifer Livingston, a local news anchor in La Crosse, Wisconsin, responded to a viewer's outrageous attack on her appearance on Tuesday morning.
Livingston recently received an email from a male viewer criticizing her weight. Her husband and fellow news anchor Mike Thompson posted the text to the Facebook page for "WKBT News 8 This Morning."
"I was surprised indeed to witness that your physical condition hasn’t improved for many years," wrote the viewer, who said Livingston was not a "suitable example" for young girls. "I leave you this note hoping that you’ll reconsider your responsibility as a local public personality to present and promote a healthy lifestyle."
Livingston addressed her bully on-air Tuesday, prefacing her message by saying that she has received words of support from "hundreds" of people and that the response has been "truly inspiring."
“The truth is, I am overweight," she said. "But to the person who wrote me that letter, do you think I don’t know that? That your cruel words are pointing out something that I don’t see? You don't know me... so you know nothing about me but what you see on the outside and I am much more than a number on a scale."
Livingston continued, "That man’s words mean nothing to me, but really angers me about this is is there are children who don’t know better — who get emails as critical as the one I received or in many cases, even worse, each and every day."
She said that bullying scared her as the mother of three daughters. "If you are at home and you are talking about the fat newslady, guess what?" she said. "Your children are probably going to go to school and call someone fat."
Livingston thanked the viewers, friends and colleagues who have stood up for her, and ended with these words:
“I leave you with this: To all of the children out there who feel lost, who are struggling with your weight, with the color of your skin, your sexual preference, your disability, even the acne on your face, listen to me right now. do not let your self-worth be defined by bullies. Learn from my experience — that the cruel words of one are nothing compared to the shouts of many.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/02/jennifer-livingston-anchor-obesity-letter_n_1932869.html?utm_hp_ref=women&ir=Women
The full email is also viewable on the site.
Do we a) think this was an appropriate response? b) Consider this viewer's unsolicited email to be 'bullying' and/or c) believe that News presenters/people in the public eye have a duty to represent a "healthy lifestyle" in the manner that phrase is generally understood by Joe Public ie. slim?
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I watched this video after it popped up on a forum here (and slightly before it went absolutely viral across the web)... and I honestly have mixed emotions about it. While the email was criticism veiled in concern... I don't know if it was exactly bullying... I think we have broadened bullying so much (which is just my opinion) to include any harsh criticisms. When I was in school I was pinned down, made fun of and had to fight back... of course I was always the one that got caught and punished... I would have things stolen from me and teachers that didn't do a damn thing about it because I was an NCO's kid and it was a CO's kid that was doing it to me... Granted that isn't as bad as what others have faced... but that was bullying, in my mind.
But perhaps in her or her husband's mind it was bullying... and that's fine by me. I personally would have just said "well you're a jerk" and deleted the email...
Though in that industry (and I have a few friends that are in that industry and I have seen some of their rants on ignorant people that are super critical) you are going to get super critical (sometimes even straight up bullying) emails and viewer comments regardless of what you look like. And honestly, I don't recall ever seeing an overweight news anchor... not saying they aren't there... but it's definitely not common, at least not where I live.
Like I said, that is my opinion on the matter.0 -
Do we a) think this was an appropriate response? b) Consider this viewer's unsolicited email to be 'bullying' and/or c) believe that News presenters/people in the public eye have a duty to represent a "healthy lifestyle" in the manner that phrase is generally understood by Joe Public ie. slim?
a. I think she should not have responded at all publicly. At most she should have told the guy to not send anymore emails.
b. I don't think it is bullying to offer an unsolicited opinion. If she told the person that she did not want anymore emails and he continued to send them with the same type of message then I believe it becomes bullying.
c. Everyone should strive to represent a "healthy lifestyle". Should public figures be held to a higher standard? I don't think so. If you don't like the message a public figure promotes then don't support them.0 -
She knows she's in the public eye, right? You doesn't have to adhere by law but it's expected of you.
I don't really think that's bullying, to me that seems pretty light.
But I appreciate how she has used it to bring attention to the problem of bullying and hopefully there'll be a little more media coverage on for this for a few weeks.0 -
a. I think she should not have responded at all publicly. At most she should have told the guy to not send anymore emails.
b. I don't think it is bullying to offer an unsolicited opinion. If she told the person that she did not want anymore emails and he continued to send them with the same type of message then I believe it becomes bullying.
c. Everyone should strive to represent a "healthy lifestyle". Should public figures be held to a higher standard? I don't think so. If you don't like the message a public figure promotes then don't support them.
Ditto.
Especially a.
I don't know why she felt the need to respond publicly, unless the original comment was also done publicly. It could even be construed that taking someone "out to the streets" like that was her own personal form of bullying, sending the message that all critics will be put on blast for everyone to see.0 -
seems like she just wants publicity/viewers.0
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i hope she will try to get in better shape now.....0
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She was not bullied. Bullying is repeated, intentional harassment. She got an e-mail from a viewer, criticizing her appearance. If she'd gotten an e-mail criticizing her wardrobe or the sound of her voice, would she have considered that bullying and felt the need to make a public display of it? Doubtful. It would've been filed as Trash and forgotten about.
As to whether or not it was okay for the writer of that email to send it to her, I have mixed feelings. On one hand, why is it any of his business what she looks like? If he's staking a claim to her appearance based on what kind of example she's setting, then he can change the channel in his own house and call it a day. In this sense, he is no better than meddlers like Warren Buffett telling other people what to do with their own money.
On the other hand, I'm sure he thought he was being helpful. He didn't suggest that she quit her job and do something less visible. He suggested she start a weight-loss program, transform herself, and show her viewers the value of eating right and staying active. As much as this woman's husband seems intent on convincing people she "runs triathlons" and "has a thyroid condition," I remain unconvinced that she practices healthy eating habits.
Do people in the public eye have a duty to look a certain way? Depends. I don't think they have a duty to me, specifically, but certainly, in many cases, there is a duty to SOMEONE to achieve and/or maintain a certain appearance as it relates to your job. A lot of people believe professional athletes have a duty to be positive role models for children by moderating their PRIVATE behavior, but we're supposed to have a problem with the suggestion that this woman has a duty to be a positive role model by moderating her very PUBLIC appearance?0 -
Although I don't see it as bullying; in a way, I do commend her for making it public. Parents just don't teach kids enough these days the importance of NOT criticizing others in hurtful ways. Therefore, she had to go public. Many parents turn to public figures as role models for their rugrats than trying to be one themselves.0
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Although I don't see it as bullying; in a way, I do commend her for making it public. Parents just don't teach kids enough these days the importance of NOT criticizing others in hurtful ways. Therefore, she had to go public. Many parents turn to public figures as role models for their rugrats than trying to be one themselves.
But like I have said before, does that mean she is going to call out every person that criticizes her about something? Because as a news anchor and a public figure she gets it a lot... I can guarantee it.
I really don't think either person was right... I think the emailer was condecending and giving unsolicited commentary and advice... but I also don't agree with how she did it either... She could have responded privately. But then her husband did make the email public, which I think was wrong on his part as well, seeing as that was his wife's issue to deal with in such a way, not his.0 -
Although I don't see it as bullying; in a way, I do commend her for making it public. Parents just don't teach kids enough these days the importance of NOT criticizing others in hurtful ways. Therefore, she had to go public. Many parents turn to public figures as role models for their rugrats than trying to be one themselves.
But like I have said before, does that mean she is going to call out every person that criticizes her about something? Because as a news anchor and a public figure she gets it a lot... I can guarantee it.
I really don't think either person was right... I think the emailer was condecending and giving unsolicited commentary and advice... but I also don't agree with how she did it either... She could have responded privately. But then her husband did make the email public, which I think was wrong on his part as well, seeing as that was his wife's issue to deal with in such a way, not his.
one thing for sure, if she does call out every person, the folks will get tired of hearing it and she will have alot more to deal with than weight critical viewers..lol0 -
Viewer was a d!ick for sending the email. Yes Bully? No.
Report kind of came off whiny to me. Like half of kids 'these days' getting all emo because someone looks at them the wrong way.0 -
Viewer was a d!ick for sending the email. Yes Bully? No.
Report kind of came off whiny to me. Like half of kids 'these days' getting all emo because someone looks at them the wrong way.
too bad its those emo kids that are offing themselves because they are being harassed for being emo.0 -
Viewer was a d!ick for sending the email. Yes Bully? No.
Report kind of came off whiny to me. Like half of kids 'these days' getting all emo because someone looks at them the wrong way.
too bad its those emo kids that are offing themselves because they are being harassed for being emo.
they are offing themselves because they are coddled and the whole anti-bully thing. If the suicide rate is any higher than it was 20 years ago it's because kids now don't know how to cope, or deal with life being unfair. It's very sad but it's a result of 'softening' kids up.0 -
they are offing themselves because they are coddled and the whole anti-bully thing. If the suicide rate is any higher than it was 20 years ago it's because kids now don't know how to cope, or deal with life being unfair. It's very sad but it's a result of 'softening' kids up.
Are you kidding me? Bullying is SO much worse than it ever has been. My son lost a friend to suicide last Thanksgiving. She was only 14 years old. The bullying is constant. Go to school, get bullied, turn on the computer, get bullied, pick up a phone, get bullied.
It used to be that you could go to school, get picked on, but go home, and still have a lot of waking hours of peace. No more. Technology has made way for kids to be giant *kitten* to each other. I see it every single day. I'm honestly surprised more of them don't kill themselves. It is so much easier for kids to torture from behind a screen than it ever was face to face.
You truly have no clue what you're saying when you write that is a result of "softening" kids up. It is not, at all.0 -
they are offing themselves because they are coddled and the whole anti-bully thing. If the suicide rate is any higher than it was 20 years ago it's because kids now don't know how to cope, or deal with life being unfair. It's very sad but it's a result of 'softening' kids up.
Are you kidding me? Bullying is SO much worse than it ever has been. My son lost a friend to suicide last Thanksgiving. She was only 14 years old. The bullying is constant. Go to school, get bullied, turn on the computer, get bullied, pick up a phone, get bullied.
It used to be that you could go to school, get picked on, but go home, and still have a lot of waking hours of peace. No more. Technology has made way for kids to be giant *kitten* to each other. I see it every single day. I'm honestly surprised more of them don't kill themselves. It is so much easier for kids to torture from behind a screen than it ever was face to face.
You truly have no clue what you're saying when you write that is a result of "softening" kids up. It is not, at all.
Yeah, I have to agree.
I remember getting in fistfights one day, and hanging out the next. No drama. Most PARENTS do not teach their kids that being cruel is not cool. They turn their kids into cowards by bullying right along side the rugrat as opposed to dealing with it as it should be dealt with.0 -
they are offing themselves because they are coddled and the whole anti-bully thing. If the suicide rate is any higher than it was 20 years ago it's because kids now don't know how to cope, or deal with life being unfair. It's very sad but it's a result of 'softening' kids up.
Are you kidding me? Bullying is SO much worse than it ever has been. My son lost a friend to suicide last Thanksgiving. She was only 14 years old. The bullying is constant. Go to school, get bullied, turn on the computer, get bullied, pick up a phone, get bullied.
It used to be that you could go to school, get picked on, but go home, and still have a lot of waking hours of peace. No more. Technology has made way for kids to be giant *kitten* to each other. I see it every single day. I'm honestly surprised more of them don't kill themselves. It is so much easier for kids to torture from behind a screen than it ever was face to face.
You truly have no clue what you're saying when you write that is a result of "softening" kids up. It is not, at all.
I have to agree with this. I graduated about 12 years ago. I was bullied nearly everyday of my school career from about 4th grade on. However, I could come home and be safe from that after school and on the weekends. It gave me time to feel safe and not have to watch my back. If my tormentors could have gotten to me via internet and phone, I honestly don't know how I would have handled it.
A life of constant degradation and sometimes outright fear is going to wear on anyone. It's about so much more than "life being unfair."0 -
My bet fbmandy was/is a bully in school and takes joy in seeing others suffer, no matter how sensitive the person is. Let's hope to god she doesn't have kids.
I acknowledge that technology has contributed to a new breed of bullying but just as kids could escape bullies at school, they can also escape by avoiding the computer. If 20 years ago a kid couldn't wait to get home to escape the torment, why would they look forward to going online to endure more now? I have been there! I used to search and search on facebook to find every little thing that people were saying about me, as if I liked the pain it caused me. Finally, I realized that I was happier by ignoring the nasty posts and living my life. I was picked on relentlessly in school. I was the fat girl with cystic acne and boils all over her face from 7th grade until I was diagnosed with a condition just last year. But my parents didn't start any campaigns for me, didn't call the school and demand the kids be punished. They helped me to get through by telling me I was beautiful and helping me understand why a bully does what they do and how little they will mean when we are adults.
Sorry, I have a happy, healthy and loved son. He will be taught to defend himself, even if it means him getting in trouble because a school tells him he can't defend himself.
Finally,0 -
sorry, I know this has gotten off topic somewhat so I will try to bring it back around. I think you missed the whole point of a "rally". Many parents do not teach kids ANYTHING anymore, instead, depending on public schools and celebrities to do their job. The reason for the rally of any kind is to raise awareness. Since bullying has obviously gotten out of hand, rallying, making public notices, etc will help raise awareness. If it wakes up one parent to change the heathen ways of their rugrat, then it is working.
The only coddling I see these days are from parents who get pissy because their rugrat was disciplined.
Lastly, if I have to coddle an emo kid to keep them from killing themselves, then I will. I will not tell them to "suck it up" if that is what they have been doing their whole lives. I just don't think your insinuations of kids need to suck it up and deal with it is the right answer all the time.0 -
It doesn't fit my definition of bullying, either. Just some random person being critical of someone. However, she makes a good point about children picking up on what parents say and she's right, if parents are sitting around calling some news anchor fat, the kids will probably go to school and pick on someone for being fat.0
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I acknowledge that technology has contributed to a new breed of bullying but just as kids could escape bullies at school, they can also escape by avoiding the computer. If 20 years ago a kid couldn't wait to get home to escape the torment, why would they look forward to going online to endure more now? I have been there! I used to search and search on facebook to find every little thing that people were saying about me, as if I liked the pain it caused me. Finally, I realized that I was happier by ignoring the nasty posts and living my life. I was picked on relentlessly in school. I was the fat girl with cystic acne and boils all over her face from 7th grade until I was diagnosed with a condition just last year. But my parents didn't start any campaigns for me, didn't call the school and demand the kids be punished. They helped me to get through by telling me I was beautiful and helping me understand why a bully does what they do and how little they will mean when we are adults.
You'd think if you were bullied that you would have a little more empathy and grace for those who are also bullied. And try being a teen/tween without an online presence or a phone. They would be complete hermits. And that certainly isn't good for self esteem either.0 -
I acknowledge that technology has contributed to a new breed of bullying but just as kids could escape bullies at school, they can also escape by avoiding the computer. If 20 years ago a kid couldn't wait to get home to escape the torment, why would they look forward to going online to endure more now? I have been there! I used to search and search on facebook to find every little thing that people were saying about me, as if I liked the pain it caused me. Finally, I realized that I was happier by ignoring the nasty posts and living my life. I was picked on relentlessly in school. I was the fat girl with cystic acne and boils all over her face from 7th grade until I was diagnosed with a condition just last year. But my parents didn't start any campaigns for me, didn't call the school and demand the kids be punished. They helped me to get through by telling me I was beautiful and helping me understand why a bully does what they do and how little they will mean when we are adults.
You'd think if you were bullied that you would have a little more empathy and grace for those who are also bullied. And try being a teen/tween without an online presence or a phone. They would be complete hermits. And that certainly isn't good for self esteem either.
Wait...what? You need a computer and phone to not be a hermit?! LMAO! How bout going outside and hanging out with people? My kids come home. Tell me such and such called him whatever, or didn't let him play (after I ask). I asked what did he do? He said he went and played somewhere else, or laughed at how funny the name calling was. He's also taking MMA. He needs to know how do defend himself if the teachers talking doesn't resolve the issue. After he's done with homework and dinner, we go out and catch the ball, or ride bikes or do yard work. He plays with his friends as well. Only on Friday nights and Saturdays can he keep his face buried in a DS or whatever. My point is, not having a computer, or a facebook page, or a cell phone, does not a hermit make. Bullying has not changed in the last 20 years. Only the way we think has changed. When we were kids and were name called, mom or dad told us to suck it up. Now we get name called, and we wanna sue everyone. Parenting still helps your kids deal with life. Don't let the school do all the work. Oh, and my newphews who are emo do it for style. Not becuase they're depressed lil sh!ts that whine about life. They don't have it all, but they know they have it better than most.0 -
And how old is your kid? If he's spending Friday and Saturday with a DS, I'm guessing he's pretty young still. I don't know a single kid who is over the age of 13 who doesn't have a cell phone and an online presence.
Bullying has changed, whether or not you want to acknowledge it. You can even see it with adults. How many online trolls will say truly nasty things because they can hide behind the relative anonymity of the internet?
I read this article a few days ago. You think the 17 year old would have dared speak to his dad's friend face to face? But the internet gave him a way to torment. Yes. Things have changed. A lot.
The day I confronted my troll
He drove me off Twitter, hacked my Facebook, and abused and terrified my family. Yet the biggest shock of all was meeting him
Leo Traynor
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 26 September 2012 04.31 EDT
Jump to comments (913)
'My email address was flooded with foulmouthed and disgusting comments and images.' Photograph: Piotr Pawinski/Alamy
I'm back on Twitter.
I can imagine the cries of "I knew he wouldn't last!" from the Twitterati.
But give me a few minutes of your time and I'll tell you why I'm back and the real truth about exactly why I left in the first place.
In my blog of 12 August entitled Walking, Not Running, I talked about my time on Twitter and my basic reasons for leaving. I stand over a lot of what I said. The atmosphere there has changed and there have been negative stories in the media about trolling, etc, for months now. The brand has been damaged and Twitter needs to act fairly swiftly to repair it. At the time of writing that blog, for reasons that will become obvious, I was very sketchy about my own personal experience.
When I left Twitter numerous people thought it was as a result of an overreaction on my behalf. That my departure was a kneejerk reaction to a couple of "trolling" or "flaming" incidents or that I was attention seeking. The reality of the situation is that my wife and I were targeted for over three years.
It started in July 2009. I'd been on Twitter for over two years at that point, having joined in May 2007, and I'd never had a problem. My account was followed by a fairly innocuous looking one which I followed back and within 10 minutes I had received a direct message (DM) calling me a "Dirty ****ing Jewish scumbag". I blocked the account and reported it as spam. The following week it happened again in an identical manner. A new follower, I followed back, received a string of abusive DMs, blocked and reported for spam. Two or three times a week. Sometimes two or three times a day. An almost daily cycle of blocking and reporting and intense verbal abuse. So I made my account private and the problem went away for a short while. There were no problems on Twitter but my Facebook account was hacked, my blog was spammed and my email address was flooded with foulmouthed and disgusting comments and images. Images of corpses and concentration camps and dismembered bodies.
Again, it eased off for a couple of weeks. I relaxed. Thought they'd finally tired of failing to get a reaction from me. Boy, was I wrong.
I didn't mention it to my wife. Didn't see the point of worrying her. But then she joined Twitter to see what it was like and grew to enjoy it. It wouldn't have been immediately obvious to outsiders that we were man and wife. She made the mistake, though, of changing her profile to state that she was "The long suffering wife of @LeoTraynor". Not a good idea. She received a DM stating: "Your husband is scum. A rotten *kitten* and you're a *kitten*." She laughed it off. Blocked and reported and then the pattern started again. We got to the point of not accepting new followers at all and then one day my wife received a torrent of abuse via DM and on the timeline that was so vile she's never been on Twitter since – which is a real shame as she has so much to share and is far more interesting than I am.
People kept asking me, "Why you? Why would these guys want to have a go at you?" I couldn't answer them other than it was a couple of random idiots who didn't appreciate my political views or ethnic origins. Or even someone who couldn't solve my cryptic crosswords!
The whole thing escalated in June, July and August this year. I received more and more abuse on the timeline and via DMs. A crossword clue account I'd started (@Leo'sClue) was inundated with abuse too.
Then one day something happened that truly frightened me. I don't scare easily but this was vile.
I received a parcel at my home address. Nothing unusual there – I get lots of post. I ripped it open and there was a Tupperware lunchbox inside full of ashes. There was a note included, saying, "Say hello to your relatives from Auschwitz". I was physically sick.
I was petrified. They had my address. I reported it to the authorities and hoped for the best.
Two days later I opened my front door and there was a bunch of dead flowers with my wife's old Twitter username on it. Then that night I received a DM. "You'll get home some day & ur *****es throat will be cut & ur son will be gone."
I got on to the authorities again but, polite and sympathetic as they were, there didn't seem much that could be done.
Every night for weeks I lost sleep over it. Listening for noises. Opening the door everyday with trepidation. Trying to maintain a semblance of normality and not let my wife or son see that I was dying on the inside. Mortified that they might be in danger because of my big mouth or ancestry.
Then the last straw. I received another tweet, on the public timeline this time. "I hope you die screaming but not until you see me piss on ur wife."
I closed my account immediately and swore I'd never go back, in spite of the friends I have there.
I made it clear that I would pursue the troll or trolls and that I would take action. What I didn't say though was that I'd already been pursuing them for weeks and had a very good idea where, if not who, they were.
In July I was approached by a friend who's basically an IT genius, and he offered some help. He said that he could trace the hackers and trolls for me using perfectly legal technology, which would lead to their IP addresses. I said yes. Then I baited them – I was deliberately more provocative toward them than ever I'd been before.
Holidays intervened. My Twitter account was deactivated but before doing so I posted links to my Google+ account, blog and invited people to contact me on Facebook. I'm delighted that a lot of my lovely friends did. I'm also delighted that The Troll did too.
It transpired that the abuse had emanated from three separate IP addresses in different corners of Ireland. Two of them were public wifi locations but the third … The third location was the interesting one.
The third location was a friend's house.
The Troll was his son. His 17-year-old son.
I was gobsmacked.
I spoke to my friend at length. He told me how his son was always glued to his laptop, tablet or smartphone. How he couldn't watch a TV show without tweeting about it simultaneously. About how he'd become engrossed in conspiracy sites. It also became clear that the other two IP addresses had been used by his son.
He was horrified at what his son had done. Horrified, but not surprised. He wanted to call the authorities there and then and turn him in. But I said no.
A couple of days after that conversation I met my friend, his wife and their son in a quiet and discreet location. The son, The Troll who'd almost driven me mad, was totally unaware that I'd be joining them.
I sat down and ordered a big pot of tea. "Do you still like choc chip cookies?" I asked The Troll and he nodded eagerly, a shadow of the little boy that was flickering across his face.
We had a chat. I told them about my wife and son. I told them about my recent illnesses and bereavements and about the builders having been in. I asked after their business and asked The Troll how college is going. All bright and breezy and a trip down memory lane. Then The Troll's dad tipped me the wink and I opened my bag and took out my manila folder.
I showed The Troll's mother and father screengrabs and printouts of his handiwork.
I showed them pictures of ashes and dead flowers.
I pointed out that one of the messages my wife received wishing me dead had arrived when I actually was gravely ill.
I told them of how I'd become so paranoid that I genuinely didn't know who to trust anymore.
I told them of nights when I'd walked the rooms, jumping at shadows and crying over the sleeping forms of my family for fear that they would suffer because of me.
Then it happened …
The Troll burst into tears. His dad gently restraining him from leaving the table.
I put my hand on his shoulder and asked him: "Why?"
The Troll sat there for a moment and said "I don't know. I don't know. I'm sorry. It was like a game thing."
A game thing.
So, that's what it was …
The Troll's mother said: "If you want to call the garda we'll support you in that. I'm ashamed of him."
I responded: "I'm not criminalising a 17-year-old kid and ruining his future. But I will write about it – and you must all guarantee me that he'll go and see a counsellor about this or I will go legal on you."
Then I got up to leave. I looked The Troll in the eye and said: "Stand up."
He stood. I said: "Look at me. I'm a middle-aged man with a limp and a wheeze and a son and a wife that I love. I'm not just a little avatar of an eye. You're better than this. You have a name of your own. Be proud of it. Don't hide it again and I won't ruin it if you play ball with your parents. Now shake hands."
"I'm sorry," he said, and looked like he meant it. "Thanks for giving me a break dude."
Then we shook on it.
And that is how I came to shake the hand of a troll.
• This article originally appeared on traynorseye.com and is republished with permission. The author has asked us to make clear he does not want to be paid a fee0 -
yeah, no one is saying that kids defending themselves is wrong, not needed, whatever. Regardless, why can't the cruelty be stopped ahead of time? Fighting about it should be a last resort.
Bullying has changed. In my day, you would not see or hear a parent making fun of another kid, or another adult in front of kids. Parents would not hide being anonymous letters and phone calls (as they hide behind computers now) just to intimidate another kid or adult. Parents did not whine and ***** when their creepy rugrat was disciplined in school. Parents did not complain when their kid didn't win a trophy for showing up.
Times have changed, parenting styles have changed, and certainly not for the better. I feel due to the lack of restraint from parents, kids are free to do what they want to whomever they want, with no repercussions. THAT is why people go public about bully or even perceived bullying.0 -
they are offing themselves because they are coddled and the whole anti-bully thing. If the suicide rate is any higher than it was 20 years ago it's because kids now don't know how to cope, or deal with life being unfair. It's very sad but it's a result of 'softening' kids up.
Here are some figures - http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?page_id=04ea1254-bd31-1fa3-c549d77e6ca6aa37
Where's your information coming from? Is it anecdotal? :huh:0 -
And how old is your kid? If he's spending Friday and Saturday with a DS, I'm guessing he's pretty young still. I don't know a single kid who is over the age of 13 who doesn't have a cell phone and an online presence.
Bullying has changed, whether or not you want to acknowledge it. You can even see it with adults. How many online trolls will say truly nasty things because they can hide behind the relative anonymity of the internet?
I read this article a few days ago. You think the 17 year old would have dared speak to his dad's friend face to face? But the internet gave him a way to torment. Yes. Things have changed. A lot.
The day I confronted my troll
He drove me off Twitter, hacked my Facebook, and abused and terrified my family. Yet the biggest shock of all was meeting him
Leo Traynor
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 26 September 2012 04.31 EDT
Jump to comments (913)
'My email address was flooded with foulmouthed and disgusting comments and images.' Photograph: Piotr Pawinski/Alamy
I'm back on Twitter.
I can imagine the cries of "I knew he wouldn't last!" from the Twitterati.
But give me a few minutes of your time and I'll tell you why I'm back and the real truth about exactly why I left in the first place.
In my blog of 12 August entitled Walking, Not Running, I talked about my time on Twitter and my basic reasons for leaving. I stand over a lot of what I said. The atmosphere there has changed and there have been negative stories in the media about trolling, etc, for months now. The brand has been damaged and Twitter needs to act fairly swiftly to repair it. At the time of writing that blog, for reasons that will become obvious, I was very sketchy about my own personal experience.
When I left Twitter numerous people thought it was as a result of an overreaction on my behalf. That my departure was a kneejerk reaction to a couple of "trolling" or "flaming" incidents or that I was attention seeking. The reality of the situation is that my wife and I were targeted for over three years.
It started in July 2009. I'd been on Twitter for over two years at that point, having joined in May 2007, and I'd never had a problem. My account was followed by a fairly innocuous looking one which I followed back and within 10 minutes I had received a direct message (DM) calling me a "Dirty ****ing Jewish scumbag". I blocked the account and reported it as spam. The following week it happened again in an identical manner. A new follower, I followed back, received a string of abusive DMs, blocked and reported for spam. Two or three times a week. Sometimes two or three times a day. An almost daily cycle of blocking and reporting and intense verbal abuse. So I made my account private and the problem went away for a short while. There were no problems on Twitter but my Facebook account was hacked, my blog was spammed and my email address was flooded with foulmouthed and disgusting comments and images. Images of corpses and concentration camps and dismembered bodies.
Again, it eased off for a couple of weeks. I relaxed. Thought they'd finally tired of failing to get a reaction from me. Boy, was I wrong.
I didn't mention it to my wife. Didn't see the point of worrying her. But then she joined Twitter to see what it was like and grew to enjoy it. It wouldn't have been immediately obvious to outsiders that we were man and wife. She made the mistake, though, of changing her profile to state that she was "The long suffering wife of @LeoTraynor". Not a good idea. She received a DM stating: "Your husband is scum. A rotten *kitten* and you're a *kitten*." She laughed it off. Blocked and reported and then the pattern started again. We got to the point of not accepting new followers at all and then one day my wife received a torrent of abuse via DM and on the timeline that was so vile she's never been on Twitter since – which is a real shame as she has so much to share and is far more interesting than I am.
People kept asking me, "Why you? Why would these guys want to have a go at you?" I couldn't answer them other than it was a couple of random idiots who didn't appreciate my political views or ethnic origins. Or even someone who couldn't solve my cryptic crosswords!
The whole thing escalated in June, July and August this year. I received more and more abuse on the timeline and via DMs. A crossword clue account I'd started (@Leo'sClue) was inundated with abuse too.
Then one day something happened that truly frightened me. I don't scare easily but this was vile.
I received a parcel at my home address. Nothing unusual there – I get lots of post. I ripped it open and there was a Tupperware lunchbox inside full of ashes. There was a note included, saying, "Say hello to your relatives from Auschwitz". I was physically sick.
I was petrified. They had my address. I reported it to the authorities and hoped for the best.
Two days later I opened my front door and there was a bunch of dead flowers with my wife's old Twitter username on it. Then that night I received a DM. "You'll get home some day & ur *****es throat will be cut & ur son will be gone."
I got on to the authorities again but, polite and sympathetic as they were, there didn't seem much that could be done.
Every night for weeks I lost sleep over it. Listening for noises. Opening the door everyday with trepidation. Trying to maintain a semblance of normality and not let my wife or son see that I was dying on the inside. Mortified that they might be in danger because of my big mouth or ancestry.
Then the last straw. I received another tweet, on the public timeline this time. "I hope you die screaming but not until you see me piss on ur wife."
I closed my account immediately and swore I'd never go back, in spite of the friends I have there.
I made it clear that I would pursue the troll or trolls and that I would take action. What I didn't say though was that I'd already been pursuing them for weeks and had a very good idea where, if not who, they were.
In July I was approached by a friend who's basically an IT genius, and he offered some help. He said that he could trace the hackers and trolls for me using perfectly legal technology, which would lead to their IP addresses. I said yes. Then I baited them – I was deliberately more provocative toward them than ever I'd been before.
Holidays intervened. My Twitter account was deactivated but before doing so I posted links to my Google+ account, blog and invited people to contact me on Facebook. I'm delighted that a lot of my lovely friends did. I'm also delighted that The Troll did too.
It transpired that the abuse had emanated from three separate IP addresses in different corners of Ireland. Two of them were public wifi locations but the third … The third location was the interesting one.
The third location was a friend's house.
The Troll was his son. His 17-year-old son.
I was gobsmacked.
I spoke to my friend at length. He told me how his son was always glued to his laptop, tablet or smartphone. How he couldn't watch a TV show without tweeting about it simultaneously. About how he'd become engrossed in conspiracy sites. It also became clear that the other two IP addresses had been used by his son.
He was horrified at what his son had done. Horrified, but not surprised. He wanted to call the authorities there and then and turn him in. But I said no.
A couple of days after that conversation I met my friend, his wife and their son in a quiet and discreet location. The son, The Troll who'd almost driven me mad, was totally unaware that I'd be joining them.
I sat down and ordered a big pot of tea. "Do you still like choc chip cookies?" I asked The Troll and he nodded eagerly, a shadow of the little boy that was flickering across his face.
We had a chat. I told them about my wife and son. I told them about my recent illnesses and bereavements and about the builders having been in. I asked after their business and asked The Troll how college is going. All bright and breezy and a trip down memory lane. Then The Troll's dad tipped me the wink and I opened my bag and took out my manila folder.
I showed The Troll's mother and father screengrabs and printouts of his handiwork.
I showed them pictures of ashes and dead flowers.
I pointed out that one of the messages my wife received wishing me dead had arrived when I actually was gravely ill.
I told them of how I'd become so paranoid that I genuinely didn't know who to trust anymore.
I told them of nights when I'd walked the rooms, jumping at shadows and crying over the sleeping forms of my family for fear that they would suffer because of me.
Then it happened …
The Troll burst into tears. His dad gently restraining him from leaving the table.
I put my hand on his shoulder and asked him: "Why?"
The Troll sat there for a moment and said "I don't know. I don't know. I'm sorry. It was like a game thing."
A game thing.
So, that's what it was …
The Troll's mother said: "If you want to call the garda we'll support you in that. I'm ashamed of him."
I responded: "I'm not criminalising a 17-year-old kid and ruining his future. But I will write about it – and you must all guarantee me that he'll go and see a counsellor about this or I will go legal on you."
Then I got up to leave. I looked The Troll in the eye and said: "Stand up."
He stood. I said: "Look at me. I'm a middle-aged man with a limp and a wheeze and a son and a wife that I love. I'm not just a little avatar of an eye. You're better than this. You have a name of your own. Be proud of it. Don't hide it again and I won't ruin it if you play ball with your parents. Now shake hands."
"I'm sorry," he said, and looked like he meant it. "Thanks for giving me a break dude."
Then we shook on it.
And that is how I came to shake the hand of a troll.
• This article originally appeared on traynorseye.com and is republished with permission. The author has asked us to make clear he does not want to be paid a fee
Incredible story. Good for the author for being forgiving and wise enough to give someone a chance to grow and change, I hope the kid takes that chance and develops some empathy.0 -
they are offing themselves because they are coddled and the whole anti-bully thing. If the suicide rate is any higher than it was 20 years ago it's because kids now don't know how to cope, or deal with life being unfair. It's very sad but it's a result of 'softening' kids up.
Here are some figures - http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?page_id=04ea1254-bd31-1fa3-c549d77e6ca6aa37
Where's your information coming from? Is it anecdotal? :huh:
[/quote]
I always thought kids were the highest among age groups. This says otherwise. Good to know.0 -
Do we a) think this was an appropriate response? b) Consider this viewer's unsolicited email to be 'bullying' and/or c) believe that News presenters/people in the public eye have a duty to represent a "healthy lifestyle" in the manner that phrase is generally understood by Joe Public i.e. slim?
(a) No, I don't think it's appropriate at all. Her reaction was way over the top and reeked of a "playing the victim" mentality. It did, however, dramatically increase her publicity and ratings.
(b) The viewer is clearly a jerk, but I don't see his comments or email as bullying. He's just some *kitten* with a big mouth. His comments should've just been ignored, and she should have just moved on doing her job. It seems like a lot of people don't seem to understand the difference between bullying and someone just being a regular run-of-the-mill *kitten*. There are jerks that are going to say things about you no matter what you do or what you look like, because they are jerks. It's a necessary life-skill learning how to brush them off and realize that their comments mean nothing. Giving them attention is what they want. Bullying is entirely different. To me, bullying is closer to the legal definition of harassment than anything else, and it should not be tolerated. This single email is not bullying.
(c) No, however, if you're going to be a public personality, you should be prepared to deal with people who don't like you based on how you look. This goes for people who are fat, thin, blonde, redhead, dark skinned, light skinned, whatever. It's just part of it.0 -
My bet fbmandy was/is a bully in school and takes joy in seeing others suffer, no matter how sensitive the person is. Let's hope to god she doesn't have kids.
The hypocrisy of this comment in light of your other anti-bullying comments is astounding. SMH.
You should be ashamed of yourself for stooping so low to attempt to make your point.0 -
Here are some figures - http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?page_id=04ea1254-bd31-1fa3-c549d77e6ca6aa37
The figures you posted were not for teens or younger people but the total suicide rates for the population as a whole.
Here are the figures for younger people: http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewPage&page_id=04EB7CD1-9EED-9712-89C9540AFCB44481
Note that the largest increase in suicides is among people aged 45 to 64, while the rate for teens and children has held fairly constant since 2000.
These figures say absolutely nothing about the causes of these suicides either.0 -
YesThe figures you posted were not for teens or younger people but the total suicide rates for the population as a whole.
ThanksHere are the figures for younger people: http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewPage&page_id=04EB7CD1-9EED-9712-89C9540AFCB44481
Of course they don't (kind of goes back to the point about my earlier question)Note that the largest increase in suicides is among people aged 45 to 64, while the rate for teens and children has held fairly constant since 2000.
These figures say absolutely nothing about the causes of these suicides either.0
