I've been guilty....
Danielle_2013
Posts: 806 Member
of thinking that women expect too much from men these days and that I will inevitably have to choose between two different "types", ie. nice, emotionally available yet sexually boring guy or guy that will treat me emotionally like crap, but I just can't help wanting to have sex with and wanting to love anyway.
My new favorite article however, disputes this.
"There's nothing inherently unreasonably about women's desire for verbally competent, ambitious, psychologically present partners. It's not contradictory to want relationships with men who are emotionally fluent but not so needy that they turn their wives and girlfriends into surrogate mommies. In this current "man crisis" frenzy, the real problem is the relentless message that women need to dampen their expectations for what men can bring to the table. The solution lies in doing the opposite: challenging guys not to "man up" but to "step up."
It is long, but ladies..and men.. I think if you have a little time, it is worth the read.
http://jezebel.com/5947015/theres-nothing-unreasonable-about-wanting-to-be-his-lover-not-his-mother?tag=genderal-interest
Thoughts?
My new favorite article however, disputes this.
"There's nothing inherently unreasonably about women's desire for verbally competent, ambitious, psychologically present partners. It's not contradictory to want relationships with men who are emotionally fluent but not so needy that they turn their wives and girlfriends into surrogate mommies. In this current "man crisis" frenzy, the real problem is the relentless message that women need to dampen their expectations for what men can bring to the table. The solution lies in doing the opposite: challenging guys not to "man up" but to "step up."
It is long, but ladies..and men.. I think if you have a little time, it is worth the read.
http://jezebel.com/5947015/theres-nothing-unreasonable-about-wanting-to-be-his-lover-not-his-mother?tag=genderal-interest
Thoughts?
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Replies
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man crisis?? I was unaware.
After reading further I realize this is one of those it's all the guys fault articles that drive half the arguments here.0 -
Couldn't finish it.... Made my head hurt..:huh:0
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I read through as much of it as I could, because the entire notion
makes my head hurt. Sure it isn't unreasonable to WANT anything.
The problem is, I disagree with the assumption that this article takes.
I really think that women (again here generalization so of course I will be
flamed by all the self proclaimed "outliers") say they want a sensitive man,
who is caring loving etc etc simply due to society pressures.
You have been told ever since you can remember that a man should be
respectful, caring, blah blah blah blah knight in shining armor garbage.
Now most women really aren't attracted to this, they want a sexually aggressive
male, who plays a very masculine role. So the problem comes from the fact that,
they suffer from a cognitive dissonance response, from wanting what they feel
they shouldn't want.
Hence the ideology of "what women say, and what women do".
If you need an example, here ya go. Many women will say "Oh I don't want to
have sex with him just yet...put it off blah blah"
simply because society tells them that if they are over sexual, they are scum.
So they will SAY, "Oh I don't do that on the first date, etc etc" when in reality,
they probably have no problems doing such things.
Cliffs:
- The writer assumes that women truly want both worlds, I argue they really don't.0 -
Poncho - I disagree.. because the conclusion of this article is that it is still up to women to do something about it.
Zachatta - Huh. I am inclined to agree with you completely, and yet feel I shouldn't. Hello cognitive dissonance in action.0 -
Whaaaat?? Is there seriously a line of thought out there that guys who are articulate, caring and emotionally available are boring in bed??? Is there seriously a line of thought out there that only *kitten* are good in bed???
God that disappoints me!!!
You are NOT in any way, shape or form expecting 'too much' if you want both from a man. Hell... we expect both from women.0 -
Whaaaat?? Is there seriously a line of thought out there that guys who are articulate, caring and emotionally available are boring in bed??? Is there seriously a line of thought out there that only *kitten* are good in bed???
God that disappoints me!!!
You are NOT in any way, shape or form expecting 'too much' if you want both from a man. Hell... we expect both from women.
Never had this thought myself... This whole article is a little to estrogen filled for me0 -
Poncho - I disagree.. because the conclusion of this article is that it is still up to women to do something about it.
Maybe I missed something, but after reading everything and the conclusion twice... the message I got was women should teach men to be more like them. Drawing to the conclusion that men are doing something wrong. If one of the men in this group made a statement saying us guys should teach women to be more like us all hell would break lose and Carl would have to shut the whole group down.0 -
and Carl would have to shut the whole group down.
lolololololololol0 -
Let me be the first to say it... I would LOVE to be taught to be "more like a man" in a ton of ways. I'm too emotional, sensitive, jealous, take criticism terribly, have been known to hold petty grudges once in a while and generally lack financial intelligence, the ability to care about working hard and ambition.
I'm quite a catch, my friends. :laugh:0 -
My .02
Every woman deserves the man that is right for her and her needs.
Every man deserves the woman that is right for him and his needs.
Nobody should ever settle, because everyone deserves to be happy.
Now let's have a beer because I'm tired of all the fighting..... :drinker:0 -
Let me be the first to say it... I would LOVE to be taught to be "more like a man" in a ton of ways. I'm too emotional, sensitive, jealous, take criticism terribly, have been known to hold petty grudges once in a while and generally lack financial intelligence, the ability to care about working hard and ambition.
I'm quite a catch, my friends. :laugh:
See you recognize things you need to work on and that is great... but what I got out of the article is that men need to become more sensitive with these emotions and their lack there of is the problem. Instead of working on them for oneself.
To me it would be the same as some A-hole treating you like *kitten* and just telling you to toughen up instead of working on not being an A-hole.0 -
This article focuses heavily on false dichotomies. It stinks of a superiority complex.
It's so... contrived. Forced. Generalized.
Each person is different, and as such, their ideal match probably wouldn't be ideal for someone else. The problem lies not in how can we "fix" people for being who they are, but finding the puzzle piece.0 -
This article focuses heavily on false dichotomies. It stinks of a superiority complex.
It's so... contrived. Forced. Generalized.
Each person is different, and as such, their ideal match probably wouldn't be ideal for someone else. The problem lies not in how can we "fix" people for being who they are, but finding the puzzle piece.
I agree... the article implies that men are either needy/dependent (like a child) OR emotionally detached/insensitive (an *kitten*). There is a hell of a lot of grey - and men - in between that very black and white view of masculinity.0 -
This article focuses heavily on false dichotomies. It stinks of a superiority complex.
It's so... contrived. Forced. Generalized.
Each person is different, and as such, their ideal match probably wouldn't be ideal for someone else. The problem lies not in how can we "fix" people for being who they are, but finding the puzzle piece.
I agree... the article implies that men are either needy/dependent (like a child) OR emotionally detached/insensitive (an *kitten*). There is a hell of a lot of grey - and men - in between that very black and white view of masculinity.
It also narrows the field even further, by saying that the needy guys are bad in bed, and the *kitten* are great in bed.0 -
This article focuses heavily on false dichotomies. It stinks of a superiority complex.
It's so... contrived. Forced. Generalized.
Each person is different, and as such, their ideal match probably wouldn't be ideal for someone else. The problem lies not in how can we "fix" people for being who they are, but finding the puzzle piece.
I agree... the article implies that men are either needy/dependent (like a child) OR emotionally detached/insensitive (an *kitten*). There is a hell of a lot of grey - and men - in between that very black and white view of masculinity.
I haven't read the article and after reading a few posts here, I don't want to.0 -
I haven't read the article and after reading a few posts here, I don't want to.
Yeah, I totally agree.0 -
OKAY.. SORRY!!
I'll request thread deleted.
Was conversational topic only.. a little banter or debate at best.
Think I need to check out of this group for a while or stay completely silent at any rate!0 -
Whaaaat?? Is there seriously a line of thought out there that guys who are articulate, caring and emotionally available are boring in bed??? Is there seriously a line of thought out there that only *kitten* are good in bed???
God that disappoints me!!!
Yeah, why is that said here? Just sounds dumb to me.0 -
OKAY.. SORRY!!
I'll request thread deleted.
Was conversational topic only.. a little banter or debate at best.
Think I need to check out of this group for a while or stay completely silent at any rate!
I don't understand. Wasn't that what we were doing?0 -
OKAY.. SORRY!!
I'll request thread deleted.
Was conversational topic only.. a little banter or debate at best.
Think I need to check out of this group for a while or stay completely silent at any rate!
No no, don't be silly.
It is fine, I think people are getting "frustrated" because they believe a topic like this will explode into
another gender war.
****, I am gender warred out though, so the ladies will probably win by default.
Recently we have been really civil on discussions like this so it isn't a big deal.
Besides you can't leave I like your input most of the time
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OKAY.. SORRY!!
I'll request thread deleted.
Was conversational topic only.. a little banter or debate at best.
Think I need to check out of this group for a while or stay completely silent at any rate!
Why?? I think these kinds of debates are the things most avoid and that is why they don't improve themselves. I hope you know I have nothing against you and my points were aimed at the article.0 -
****, I am gender warred out though, so the ladies will probably win by default.
We were already winning, but I guess it'll be easier with a default
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OKAY.. SORRY!!
I'll request thread deleted.
Was conversational topic only.. a little banter or debate at best.
Think I need to check out of this group for a while or stay completely silent at any rate!
Woah woah woah.... Don't YOU be going anywhere. No one is upset at you. We are just discussing the article.
I happen to think YOU are awesome and that drawing our attention to the article is totally cool.
Please don't interpret our having 'issues' with the article as us having 'issues' with you.
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****, I am gender warred out though, so the ladies will probably win by default.
We were already winning, but I guess it'll be easier with a default
Since you are a libertarian minded individual I will let that slide.......0 -
This article focuses heavily on false dichotomies. It stinks of a superiority complex.
It's so... contrived. Forced. Generalized.
Each person is different, and as such, their ideal match probably wouldn't be ideal for someone else. The problem lies not in how can we "fix" people for being who they are, but finding the puzzle piece.
I agree... the article implies that men are either needy/dependent (like a child) OR emotionally detached/insensitive (an *kitten*). There is a hell of a lot of grey - and men - in between that very black and white view of masculinity.
exactly. plus by default it implies an equally simplistic view of femininity as well.
i think in general there's enough of us who don;t fit in the women anre emotional and men are logical"stereotype that it still surprises me when i see articles like this try and fit people in those boxes. but it's in general the type of useless article that i expect to see on jezebel anyway
also i dont get why this needs to turn into a debate? 99% of the *kitten* you people debate in this group is all based on opinions and experiences anyway, not exactly the type things that lend themselves to classical debating :laugh:0 -
I can't open the link on my phone, unfortunately, but my two pence is that I don't think it's in any way unreasonable for two adults in a relationship to expect honest communication, emotional competency and sufficient maturity to merit a lover rather than another parent from each other!0
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****, I am gender warred out though, so the ladies will probably win by default.
We were already winning, but I guess it'll be easier with a default
Since you are a libertarian minded individual I will let that slide.......
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OKAY.. SORRY!!
I'll request thread deleted.
Was conversational topic only.. a little banter or debate at best.
Think I need to check out of this group for a while or stay completely silent at any rate!
Stop...there is nothing wrong with posting an article that you find interesting and I hope that everyone is going to agree or disagree with its opinions.
If (as has happened) it becomes an attack on the person posting it,which I don`t sense here,then it is wrong.
As for the article itself,it just makes the world into two extremes on every point and that is where it fails.
It also presumes that a person everything is an either/or and that is simply not the case.
I can hold al lady and make her problems go away and also haggle over a monthly budget.
The same is true for most ladys and guys.
We are not one dimensional.0 -
Can I start my "man lessons" today? My reactionary post was cranky, over-emotional and over-sensitive. :sad:0
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Can I start my "man lessons" today? My reactionary post was cranky, over-emotional and over-sensitive. :sad:
Lesson one: Think about boobies.
More boobies.
Is that all?! MORE BOOBIES!
:laugh:0
