The Stigma Of The Never-Married Man
DMZ_1
Posts: 2,889 Member
Found this article on Details (http://www.details.com/sex-relationships/marriage-and-kids/200808/stigma-of-the-never-married-man?currentPage=1). Since 2008 is in the URL, I think it was written in 2008.
It is a good article. Please read it. However, if you don't heed the previous sentence, I will summarize what I perceive as important from it.
Some of the key points are....
1. Old social perceptions do not easily shift. Even though the man over 35 and man over 40 who has never married is a much more common sight, they are still subject to social perceptions from previous eras.
2. Men over 35 (and especially men over 40) are social pariahs if they've never married and have no kids
3. Single women perceive never married men over 35 as undesirable. It is better to be a divorcee than a never married in the eyes of the single female.
What are some of your thoughts on the article?
The points of this article bring to light the idea for me that even men face the pressures the time, just as women do. A man who stays single too long sees his options drop.
It is a good article. Please read it. However, if you don't heed the previous sentence, I will summarize what I perceive as important from it.
Some of the key points are....
1. Old social perceptions do not easily shift. Even though the man over 35 and man over 40 who has never married is a much more common sight, they are still subject to social perceptions from previous eras.
2. Men over 35 (and especially men over 40) are social pariahs if they've never married and have no kids
3. Single women perceive never married men over 35 as undesirable. It is better to be a divorcee than a never married in the eyes of the single female.
What are some of your thoughts on the article?
The points of this article bring to light the idea for me that even men face the pressures the time, just as women do. A man who stays single too long sees his options drop.
0
Replies
-
Being a single 35 never married, never engaged female. I still prefer a guy that has never been married no matter the age.0
-
Even though I'm currently dating a divorcee, I'd usually prefer a never married, no kids gentleman. I'm 34, and the same stats and I feel it's just easier to not have that baggage on one side. My current beau was married for 8 years, no kids and currently his ex lives in a different state so no drama, no baggage. But if they had had kids I think my opinon on dating him would have changed.
There's stigma with women that are in their 30's and never married/no kids too. Guys thing there is something wrong with you if you didn't want to settle down early and have kids, even if they didn't. They figure no one wanted you, which isn't the case. I feel most women and men that didn't marry and have kids early (20's, early 30's) didn't because they didn't find someone worth settling down with. Not because they are "damaged".0 -
I'm sure from older generations there is much more stigma. But by the time I'm that age it won't be so odd.
The questions I would have:
- is he afraid of commitment
- what have the quality of his previous relationships been?
That's more important that being married vs not0 -
There's stigma with women that are in their 30's and never married/no kids too. Guys thing there is something wrong with you if you didn't want to settle down early and have kids, even if they didn't. They figure no one wanted you, which isn't the case. I feel most women and men that didn't marry and have kids early (20's, early 30's) didn't because they didn't find someone worth settling down with. Not because they are "damaged".
I agree with you. A lot of men think that once a woman reaches 30 and she's single for any reason, she is damaged goods.
I think that men get a little bit more leeway on the social expectations, but there's still a belief that if a man is available after a certain point, he is damaged goods.0 -
I fall into that category for reasons I have explained.
There is a lot of truth to what is written and a past discussion here showed that many ladies do share in the perception that a man is somewhat damaged goods.
However as I have sensed in many areas what people thought months ago has modified itself a bit.
So may be the case here.0 -
Some people are just not the marrying kind. Myself included. I dont stereotype people because of their marital status at whatever age. The thought has never crossed my mind. I'd actually say that most of my friends (in their 40s) are cohabitating, but never been, nor want to be, married.
However, if you ARE the marrying kind I can see why this might bother you, cos obviously that person may not be compatible with you (if he doesn't want marriage and you do) or that person has never met someone they want to marry (so that may bring on pangs on insecurity that you also may not be 'good enough'). And I guess that MOST people have a desire to marry. I'd say that would be the main reason there is a social discrepancy.
Personally, most of the guys I've had long term relationships with are not the marrying kind either. Perhaps it's a like for like scenario. Hmmmm!! Not really thought about this before............but I'm very much in love with a confirmed bachelor, mostly because we are sooooo compatible in soooooo many ways!
0 -
"These guys get labeled playboy, loser, commitment-phobe,"
oh and also "gay & creeper"
SWEET! Only 3 more years! I'm soooo looking forward to this.
0 -
There's stigma with women that are in their 30's and never married/no kids too. Guys thing there is something wrong with you if you didn't want to settle down early and have kids, even if they didn't. They figure no one wanted you, which isn't the case. I feel most women and men that didn't marry and have kids early (20's, early 30's) didn't because they didn't find someone worth settling down with. Not because they are "damaged".
I agree with you. A lot of men think that once a woman reaches 30 and she's single for any reason, she is damaged goods.
I think that men get a little bit more leeway on the social expectations, but there's still an expectations that if a man is available after a certain point, he is damaged goods.
The silly thing is there are all these people that want to be in a relationship but everyone's too busy making assumptions to actually try to date someone!0 -
I didn't read the article, but I don't agree with any of the points summarized. Isn't 40 the new 20 after all?
I would like to address the never-married 30-40 something women issue though. I was in a long-term relationship with someone I thought I would marry (eventually). It didn't turn out that way (and there are too many specifics in my personal story too share here). But the more I look around I find that many women in the same situation I am are so because one or more men led them on through their 20s and early 30s (circumstances vary of course). I'm not trying to blame men here, but I have found this very basic storyline to be extremely common so there must be something to it.There's stigma with women that are in their 30's and never married/no kids too. Guys thing there is something wrong with you if you didn't want to settle down early and have kids, even if they didn't. They figure no one wanted you, which isn't the case. I feel most women and men that didn't marry and have kids early (20's, early 30's) didn't because they didn't find someone worth settling down with. Not because they are "damaged".0 -
Didn't read it..
But I think there is a stigma against both sexes if the person hasn't been in a relationship for over a year.
And sometimes its right to have that "stigma" but other times there are extenuating circumstances.
For me Well I was over 300lbs in my prime relationship years 20's and early 30's...I didn't want the guys who would "show interest" since all they wanted was an easy lay anyway. And now that I'm in better shape..who knows but I know that my lack of relationship experience is an issue for some..they think there is something wrong with me....well there was..but not so much any more lol0 -
The silly thing is there are all these people that want to be in a relationship but everyone's too busy making assumptions to actually try to date someone!
Great observation Christine! :flowerforyou:
I've read so many reasons in this forum why people DON'T give someone a chance based on nothing but assumption!
There are a million reasons why someone poofs and probably a lot of it is while you are busy making assumptions about them, they are busy making assumptions about you!!! :noway:
Both genders are guilty of this.......0 -
Even though I'm currently dating a divorcee, I'd usually prefer a never married, no kids gentleman. I'm 34, and the same stats and I feel it's just easier to not have that baggage on one side. My current beau was married for 8 years, no kids and currently his ex lives in a different state so no drama, no baggage. But if they had had kids I think my opinon on dating him would have changed.
There's stigma with women that are in their 30's and never married/no kids too. Guys thing there is something wrong with you if you didn't want to settle down early and have kids, even if they didn't. They figure no one wanted you, which isn't the case. I feel most women and men that didn't marry and have kids early (20's, early 30's) didn't because they didn't find someone worth settling down with. Not because they are "damaged".
THISSSSSS. Somewhat off topic, but I used to not care if a guy I was dating/interested in had kids. After dating a few that have kids and dealing with the "I can't hang out because I have my kids and I don't think you should meet them yet" issue (::cough cough:: excuse ::cough cough::) I now PREFER childless men, but won't count someone out completely. Guys probably view single women with kids the same way. Sometimes I find myself thinking "Wow, never married, no kids, 30 or older? Must be something wrong with them" but then I catch myself because I'm in the same boat!0 -
I feel there is an enormous stigma against men over the age of 40 and have never been married.
All of my older female friends have repeated said they don't want to get involved with a man who's over 40 and have never been married. They most likely think he's just a player looking for some action as opposed to something serious. Even though there are plenty of reasons why a man is 40 and never married, the stigma still exists. That's life, deal with it :glasses:
For females is starts much earlier. I think there's a stigma against women who are 35 and have never been married. I've heard these women being referred to as damage good or "dented cans". Some of this is regional too. In the northeast, it's somewhat acceptable. Everywhere else in the country, it's much less acceptable.0 -
I didn't read the article. I find that my most relevant and informed replies come from complete ignorance - like watching television while talking to girls on the phone and every 5 minutes just repeating the last sentence from the characters on screen.
I am 32 and unmarried with no children. I would bet good money that the same will apply when I am 35. I am horrified by the article and its author's statements that I will own jet skis, motorcycles, and leave on many impromptu vacations without burying myself in debt. I also take offense in his insinuation that I might offer my full attention to my partner without taking breaks to clean puke off of my shirt or apologize to everyone around me for a screaming baby.
What a jerk.0 -
The silly thing is there are all these people that want to be in a relationship but everyone's too busy making assumptions to actually try to date someone!
Make that into a shirt and sell it because that is a message that needs to get out.
I don't really care supermuch about age. I tend to shy away from younger guys, and sometimes guys my age but it's more because of their lifestyle. Still in school, still living at home, no steady job, etc. I've never considered 35+ year old never married guys damaged goods, if anything that's just about exactly what I want in a relationship. In fact, I have a massive crush on a guy at work that's almost 40.like watching television while talking to girls on the phone and every 5 minutes just repeating the last sentence from the characters on screen.
LOL! I am guilty of not reading the article. I am just responding to the point that DM referenced since it seemed he was most concerned about that. When I have more time I'll read it though :P0 -
The author of the article is female.I also take offense in his insinuation that I might offer my full attention to my partner without taking breaks to clean puke off of my shirt or apologize to everyone around me for a screaming baby.
What a jerk.0 -
The author of the article is female.I also take offense in his insinuation that I might offer my full attention to my partner without taking breaks to clean puke off of my shirt or apologize to everyone around me for a screaming baby.
What a jerk.
Not in my fully informed delusion of not reading the article. Please do not crush my reality.0 -
:laugh:
The author of the article is female.I also take offense in his insinuation that I might offer my full attention to my partner without taking breaks to clean puke off of my shirt or apologize to everyone around me for a screaming baby.
What a jerk.
Not in my fully informed delusion of not reading the article. Please do not crush my reality.0 -
I'm sure from older generations there is much more stigma. But by the time I'm that age it won't be so odd.
The questions I would have:
- is he afraid of commitment
- what have the quality of his previous relationships been?
That's more important that being married vs not
As a general rule I don't date never married men. I have two kids and I feel like the unmarried men I have dated, just don't understand the time and commitment involved in dating a single mom. Also, I wonder id he is afraid of commitment because I don't want to date someone who doesn't see themselves ever committing.0 -
I'm sure from older generations there is much more stigma. But by the time I'm that age it won't be so odd.
The questions I would have:
- is he afraid of commitment
- what have the quality of his previous relationships been?
That's more important that being married vs not
As a general rule I don't date never married men. I have two kids and I feel like the unmarried men I have dated, just don't understand the time and commitment involved in dating a single mom. Also, I wonder id he is afraid of commitment because I don't want to date someone who doesn't see themselves ever committing.
Never married men with no children are often a terrible fit for women with kids. The lifestyles are just way too different. Many times, never married men with no children enjoy many aspects of single life. However, I believe that there would be a desire amongst many members of this type of male to have a permanent, stable companion.0 -
I would like to address the never-married 30-40 something women issue though. I was in a long-term relationship with someone I thought I would marry (eventually). It didn't turn out that way (and there are too many specifics in my personal story too share here). But the more I look around I find that many women in the same situation I am are so because one or more men led them on through their 20s and early 30s (circumstances vary of course). I'm not trying to blame men here, but I have found this very basic storyline to be extremely common so there must be something to it.
The Rules Revisited blog covered this exact phenomenon.
1. http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012/01/dont-let-guy-waste-your-most-eligible.html
2. http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012/04/men-dont-have-commitment-problems.html
Men are not commitment phobes in general. In essence, I believe that the majority of men would like to commit, particularly in the under 35 set.
I think around the 2 year anniversary is the *kitten* or Get Off the Pot" time in a relationship, if both partners have turned 25. Women should not allow a man to string them along during the peak attractiveness years. It's about being assertive and letting it be known what you want. Likewise, I think it also behooves men to use the 2 year mark as a time to think long and hard about whether this is the right person. 2 years is a big enough sample size.0 -
I would like to address the never-married 30-40 something women issue though. I was in a long-term relationship with someone I thought I would marry (eventually). It didn't turn out that way (and there are too many specifics in my personal story too share here). But the more I look around I find that many women in the same situation I am are so because one or more men led them on through their 20s and early 30s (circumstances vary of course). I'm not trying to blame men here, but I have found this very basic storyline to be ejavascript:add_smiley('tongue','post_body'):grumble: xtremely common so there must be something to it.
The Rules Revisited blog covered this exact phenomenon.
1. http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012/01/dont-let-guy-waste-your-most-eligible.html
2. http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012/04/men-dont-have-commitment-problems.html
First off, I'm not one of those people who believes in dating 'rules' so those websites are meaningless to me. But even if I did, thanks for sending them so I can go back in my time machine and re-live my life over. :noway:0 -
I would like to address the never-married 30-40 something women issue though. I was in a long-term relationship with someone I thought I would marry (eventually). It didn't turn out that way (and there are too many specifics in my personal story too share here). But the more I look around I find that many women in the same situation I am are so because one or more men led them on through their 20s and early 30s (circumstances vary of course). I'm not trying to blame men here, but I have found this very basic storyline to be ejavascript:add_smiley('tongue','post_body'):grumble: xtremely common so there must be something to it.
The Rules Revisited blog covered this exact phenomenon.
1. http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012/01/dont-let-guy-waste-your-most-eligible.html
2. http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012/04/men-dont-have-commitment-problems.html
First off, I'm not one of those people who believes in dating 'rules' so those websites are meaningless to me. But even if I did, thanks for sending them so I can go back in my time machine and re-live my life over. :noway:
I took a shot!0 -
I would like to address the never-married 30-40 something women issue though. I was in a long-term relationship with someone I thought I would marry (eventually). It didn't turn out that way (and there are too many specifics in my personal story too share here). But the more I look around I find that many women in the same situation I am are so because one or more men led them on through their 20s and early 30s (circumstances vary of course). I'm not trying to blame men here, but I have found this very basic storyline to be ejavascript:add_smiley('tongue','post_body'):grumble: xtremely common so there must be something to it.
The Rules Revisited blog covered this exact phenomenon.
1. http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012/01/dont-let-guy-waste-your-most-eligible.html
2. http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012/04/men-dont-have-commitment-problems.html
First off, I'm not one of those people who believes in dating 'rules' so those websites are meaningless to me. But even if I did, thanks for sending them so I can go back in my time machine and re-live my life over. :noway:
I hope the time machine takes the form of a hot tub.0 -
I would like to address the never-married 30-40 something women issue though. I was in a long-term relationship with someone I thought I would marry (eventually). It didn't turn out that way (and there are too many specifics in my personal story too share here). But the more I look around I find that many women in the same situation I am are so because one or more men led them on through their 20s and early 30s (circumstances vary of course). I'm not trying to blame men here, but I have found this very basic storyline to be extremely common so there must be something to it.
The Rules Revisited blog covered this exact phenomenon.
1. http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012/01/dont-let-guy-waste-your-most-eligible.html
2. http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012/04/men-dont-have-commitment-problems.html
Men are not commitment phobes in general. In essence, I believe that the majority of men would like to commit, particularly in the under 35 set.
I think around the 2 year anniversary is the *kitten* or Get Off the Pot" time in a relationship, if both partners have turned 25. Women should not allow a man to string them along during the peak attractiveness years. It's about being assertive and letting it be known what you want. Likewise, I think it also behooves men to use the 2 year mark as a time to think long and hard about whether this is the right person. 2 years is a big enough sample size.
Gotta agree regarding the 2 year mark.
You should know within at least two years of dating if you want to marry that person. And if you're not absolutely sure, they aren't the one. If you want to get married, don't let that person string you along.0 -
I feel there is an enormous stigma against men over the age of 40 and have never been married.
All of my older female friends have repeated said they don't want to get involved with a man who's over 40 and have never been married. They most likely think he's just a player looking for some action as opposed to something serious. Even though there are plenty of reasons why a man is 40 and never married, the stigma still exists. That's life, deal with it :glasses:
For females is starts much earlier. I think there's a stigma against women who are 35 and have never been married. I've heard these women being referred to as damage good or "dented cans". Some of this is regional too. In the northeast, it's somewhat acceptable. Everywhere else in the country, it's much less acceptable.
I have to admit that I agree with this... Also, having been married 25 years and have two kids in their 20's, I have a perception that they would never understand. But since this topic came up maybe I should change my thinking.0 -
I hadn't realised the ultimate goal of our species was for people to establish rights and obligations between the spouses by way of the legal contract/social union called marriage.
Marriage is just a very ostentatious kind of commitment...0 -
I agree with you. A lot of men think that once a woman reaches 30 and she's single for any reason, she is damaged goods.
See, this is just weird to me, and you've said things to this effect before. The vast majority of my friends, male and female, are unmarried, and many are very single, in their early 30's. Unless you're highly religious, or from a lower social/educational strata, it's highly atypical (among the professional classes, which I believe you belong to, DM) to marry in your 20's - especially your early 20's - here. I'm going to have to assume it's a cultural difference, because I don't know anyone of that sort of social background here who thinks like that. 40 or 45, unmarried and uninvolved might attract a stigma - or at least a few raised eyebrows/questions - but 30 is still young!0 -
There is a world outside of big cities though... Keep in mind big cities have a different dynamics, so it might apply in this case.The vast majority of my friends, male and female, are unmarried, and many are very single, in their early 30's. Unless you're highly religious, or from a lower social/educational strata, it's highly atypical (among the professional classes, which I believe you belong to, DM) to marry in your 20's - especially your early 20's - here.0 -
There is a world outside of big cities though... Keep in mind big cities have a different dynamics, so it might apply in this case.The vast majority of my friends, male and female, are unmarried, and many are very single, in their early 30's. Unless you're highly religious, or from a lower social/educational strata, it's highly atypical (among the professional classes, which I believe you belong to, DM) to marry in your 20's - especially your early 20's - here.
I seem to recall that DM lives in a decent-sized city, and works in a 'professional' occupation - that's why I find his perspective on this so weird! Yes, of course the dynamic differs in smaller communities - that's fairly universal - but a lot of the Americans here, city-dwellers and country folk alike, seem to share DM's perspective on age, which is what leads me to think it must be a cultural difference...0
