Semi automatic handguns and uncommon rounds

digitalbill

Cut to the chase...
I do not believe that my wife could pull the trigger knowing that the person on the other end could probably die.

Today, she called me in a panic. She said that she looked outside and the gate was open and the shed door was open.
I told her to call the police and get the pistol.
The problem is that she is not comfortable with the magnum for a few reasons:

1: It is big. Physically, it is a large frame.
2: It is loud: That also frightens her.
3: It is unloaded: She runs a day care so weapons must be locked and unloaded.

So, my idea was to go out today and buy one of those palm print safes.
But, according to the way the rules work, the weapon still needs to be unloaded so I was thinking about getting a 380 or a small 9mm for her.
It is easy to load in a hurry.

Now we are talking about rounds.
In the magnum, my first round is snake shot.
Has anyone fired snakeshot out of a semi automatic before? If so, is there enough force to automatically load the second round?

moosegt35

If snake shot is the same as rat shot and bird shot then No, every semi auto I have shot it from it will not cycle. Also, have you looked at a Bersa Thunder .380 for her? It is a larger frame .380 than the pocket pistols and doesn't pack much recoil at all, I know 100 pound girls that shoot them with no problems. They are also quite affordable. A sig 2022 in 9mm is another good full size that is relatively cheap and low recoil but is quite a bit larger.

digitalbill

If snake shot is the same as rat shot and bird shot then No, every semi auto I have shot it from it will not cycle. Also, have you looked at a Bersa Thunder .380 for her? It is a larger frame .380 than the pocket pistols and doesn't pack much recoil at all, I know 100 pound girls that shoot them with no problems. They are also quite affordable. A sig 2022 in 9mm is another good full size that is relatively cheap and low recoil but is quite a bit larger.

The issue is the non lethal rounds.
Even a 22 loaded with a traditional round is off limits for her because of the whole "killing" thing.
It is the way she was raised.
As far as I am concerned, the thing that makes her a wonderful wife and mother is the same thing that could get her killed.
I am hoping the next best thing would be rat shot/shake shot/salt shot.

The idea is that she fires off the shot and the bad guy flees.
I am also stuck with hand guns since a shotgun is simply too unsafe around all the kids.

swordsmith

Cut to the chase...
I do not believe that my wife could pull the trigger knowing that the person on the other end could probably die.

Today, she called me in a panic. She said that she looked outside and the gate was open and the shed door was open.
I told her to call the police and get the pistol.
The problem is that she is not comfortable with the magnum for a few reasons:

1: It is big. Physically, it is a large frame.
2: It is loud: That also frightens her.
3: It is unloaded: She runs a day care so weapons must be locked and unloaded.

So, my idea was to go out today and buy one of those palm print safes.
But, according to the way the rules work, the weapon still needs to be unloaded so I was thinking about getting a 380 or a small 9mm for her.
It is easy to load in a hurry.

Now we are talking about rounds.
In the magnum, my first round is snake shot.
Has anyone fired snakeshot out of a semi automatic before? If so, is there enough force to automatically load the second round?

Before I start I preface my answers to threads like this by saying take anything I or anyone else says and put it through your bull**** detector. If it doesnt seem right to you then throw it away- I have taken hundreds of hours of training in lethal force encounters and use my BS detector a lot.

Ok- let's put this in perspective. If you need to pull a gun on a two or four legged predator snake shot wont do anything. Put solid self-defense ammo in the weapon. If you have to pull the trigger you want the threat dead or rendered inoperative as fast as possible. In a fight for your life every fraction of a second risks more harm to you- and fights, especially gun fights, are measured in fractions of a second. As such every round must have the ability to be lethal- if your or her mindset cant get around that fact I recommend Massad Ayoobs book "In the Gravest Extreme".

As stated do not put snakeshot in a semi. The chance of failure to feed (FTF) is too great. Purchase high quality, no bull **** self defense ammo. A am not talking ball, wadcutter, etc- get high end hollow points. I personally carry Wilson combat ammo optimized for my various handguns. Yes at $30+ a box for 25 its expensive but these arent my range rounds. These are my "give myself every chance to come out alive" rounds in a lethal encounter. I mean how much is your life worth (this applies to the gun too- buy what you can afford but a solid self defense weapon will be in the $400 - $600 range)?

For a handgun- get whatever your wife is comfortable shooting. I personally wont go below a 9mm- if your wife can handle a 380 she can handle a 9. I have a 5" 1" friend who carries an HK in 45- women CAN handle a 45. However, go gun shopping with her- dont you buy what you thinks she needs! Have her handle the firearm and make sure it feels good in her hand. Find 3 or 4 that feel good then see if you can find a rental range or someone that has what feels good and run some rounds through it. Too often what feels good in ones hand doesnt feel right when you fire it (ask me about the $600 Sig my wife liked, we bought it, she fired 3 rounds through it, put it down and said "it hurts my wrist too shoot"- that sucker is now a safe queen). Botom line- bring enough gun to the fight.

Why does it have to be unloaded? Is running a daycare a requirement that it be unloaded? If not then safe it up but keep it loaded- again if you need it that is NOT the time to be fumbling with ammo. If you get an auto make sure she can rack the slide if you do keep it unloaded- for women I find teaching them the slingshot method versus the "pinch" works best. With the slingshot they can put their whole weight into it (just dont be timid- I tell them try to rip the slide off. If the weapon can cycle a live round you sure cant damage it by forcefully racking it). Below is the slingshot method- hand fully over the back of the slide and use your back muscles/body weight. This is my preferred method since in a lethal force encounter ones fine motor control goes to **** - add in sweat, blood and adrenaline and the "pinch" method means you may miss the rack. And forget using the slide lock to make the slide go forward.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/images/e25-6.jpg

If its a revolver for her get speed loaders. In any case invest in dummy rounds and have her practice magazine reloading or speed loader reloading.

Dont let a salesman say that women cant handle an auto as there are too many controls- if they can handle an car with an average of 27 controls they can handle an auto with like 4. And for gods sake dont let a gun store commando talk her into a 12 ga with the standard "rack the slide and they willt ake off running" bull****. Get a decent gun and get her into a one day defensive handgun class if you can (and since you are in FL look into getting her carry permit too). However, unless your wife wants to put some range time in to learn how to change mags, clear jams, etc then a revolver may be the way to go - much simpler gun to run. A nice J-frame works.

I would have your wife read/peruse "The Cornered Cat" website. Kathy Jackson runs a FANTASTIC web site for women by women as it relates to guns. Everything from picking your first handgun, to how to dress/carry, articles on mindset in a shooting and so on. kathy is also very responsive to questions on her site- HIGHLY recommend!

http://www.corneredcat.com/

FInally have her read this that I posted- this is the type of two legged animal you will deal with. The below thread can be translated to a home invasion or residential robbery- more so since they are usually prepped to meet a homeowner, They dont care about you, your feelings, or anything else. To them you are a "thing" that has "stuff" they want- if one is lucky its just material things. If unlucky it could be her body or her/your life (look up Dr Petite murders here in Connecticut- it started as a robbery and escalated):

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/479703-street-robberies-and-you-the-basics

If any other questions you can contact me direct or through here.

swordsmith

If snake shot is the same as rat shot and bird shot then No, every semi auto I have shot it from it will not cycle. Also, have you looked at a Bersa Thunder .380 for her? It is a larger frame .380 than the pocket pistols and doesn't pack much recoil at all, I know 100 pound girls that shoot them with no problems. They are also quite affordable. A sig 2022 in 9mm is another good full size that is relatively cheap and low recoil but is quite a bit larger.

The issue is the non lethal rounds.
Even a 22 loaded with a traditional round is off limits for her because of the whole "killing" thing.
It is the way she was raised.
As far as I am concerned, the thing that makes her a wonderful wife and mother is the same thing that could get her killed.
I am hoping the next best thing would be rat shot/shake shot/salt shot.

The idea is that she fires off the shot and the bad guy flees.
I am also stuck with hand guns since a shotgun is simply too unsafe around all the kids.

You posted this up as I was typing.

My wife is also a peaceful loving mom- but God forbid you threaten her or her family. She runs a vicious gun.

There are no non-lethal rounds. You are not cops and dont have to take a suicidal teen in for help so there is zero reason to to use less lethal rounds. COps use less lethal rounds for specific purposes and when there are a LOT of them around with the others ready to go to full lethal if required.

However, even snakeshot can kill (the chance is remote but its there). If she can pull the trigger with snakeshot she can pull it with hollowpoints. If she cant then dont bother with a gun- seriously. Look at tazers, pepper spray, etc. The worse thing you can do is present a lethal option to a threat and fail to follow through- the bad guy will be pissed off that you scared him (if he sticks around- most DGU's the bad guy DOES run at the sight of a gun but some wont). If he sticks around and calls your bluff one may be in real serious trouble as the BG will take out that rage and frustration on you.

Snakeshot will piss off a would be attacker. Those rounds are typically underpowered as they have a specific use- and its not taking a meth head down. The shot itself is too light to penetrate very far into the body (and if they are wearing leather or multiple layers of clothing the energy bleed off will be significant). A head shot will bleed and if you are very lucky blind him but unless its a contact shot to the side of the head or through the eye you have almost no chance stopping the threat with snakeshot.

You may have to have a real heart to heart with the wife. I have carried a weapon for 25+ years, train intensely and pulled twice in all of those years. I am prepped mentally and physically to respond to a lethal force encounter yet I actively seek to avoid confrontation and will happily go to my grave never having shot anyone. But for those 6 seconds where I may need too I want to come out on top.

digitalbill

While I understand where you are coming from and I actually agree, my wife doesn't and quite frankly, there is no convincing her otherwise.
As a combat veteran with countless hours of training, I totally agree that when you shoot, the idea is to make the threat no longer a threat.
I understand.

First, the basics:
She does run a daycare and one of the requirements is that and and all "weapons" (firearms, arrows, mace, ect) be in a secure location. Because of this, a bio safe is the most obvious choice. It is secure however, it can be opened in a second if needed.

My fear is not that an intruder will enter the house with the intention of harming her. My fear is that an intruder will enter the house thinking it is unoccupied and decide he would rather harm or kill her instead of going to jail.

I understand you have a lot of training but, I am here to tell you from experience that when the barrel is pointed towards you and that bang goes off, it is very scary. Even scarier when you feel pain associated with it.

The "hope" is that if this happenes to a bad guy he will flee instead of standing around deciding what he just got hit with. I am far from saying that this is a perfect situation but, under the circumstances, I am trying to make the best of a bad situation.

My wife using lethal force is non-debatable therefore, a suggestion of weapons is a moot point. If it were up to me, she would get a .38 however, it isn't my call. I am looking for the next best thing.

swordsmith

Then that's a tough one.

Yeah- I have had the barrel pointed at me before but luckily no bang. I was an 11B.

I wish you luck then and hope she never has to use it. I had a friend who was similar- then her house got burglarized, she heard the noise, got up to go looking and ended up raped and in the hospital from the beating for over a week. She now carries all the time. Barn/horse/door.