Is there a tendency to rush?
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DMZ_1
Posts: 2,889 Member
In a number of threads, I'm perceiving a tendency expressed of rushing, in the context of the early stages of a "relationship". Either some of us have rushed things (we've all done it) or there's been a reaction to someone else rushing it.
A good relationship needs time to develop. There really shouldn't be a set time frame, but I think there have been times where stages have been rushed. Have stages been rushed because the early stages of a relationship are generally unpleasant? The early stages of a relationship are a delicate ecosystem that can easily be trampled upon and destroyed before they can flourish. Is there a desire to get to the comfortable, stable section of a relationship as soon as possible to eliminate this feeling?
In a lot of ways, I perceive similarity between relationship and The Product Life Cycle (http://www.marketingteacher.com/lesson-store/lesson-plc.html#). Brand marketers wish to have the maturity stage last as long as possible. And I think that's the ultimate goal with relationships.
Some relationships outside the realm of romantic ones have a degree of applicability. I'm talking about plain old friendships. I moved to a new city about 16 months ago. In my first 6 months, I was making some new friends, but I was not entirely pleased with the way that certain friendships were developing. I felt that things with some friends weren't where I thought they should be. In the last 3-6 months, things have gotten to a point where I am happier. I was patient with these friendships and my friends were patient with me. Even friendships between generally low key guys can have their ups and downs.
I also think that in a romantic relationship, there could be a tendency to rush because one or both parties is missing something essential that the other person can provide. In essence, one or both parties is coming from a place of weakness. Perhaps the missing element is sexual fulfillment or emotional fulfillment.
Maybe being patient with people and trying to see the bigger picture is the correct approach, rather than wondering if specific, measurable outcomes in a regimented time frame is a right approach. The right outcomes could come in due time if the bigger picture and a looser time frame is considered.
These are all stream of consciousness, semi organized musings and I'd like to see what others think.
A good relationship needs time to develop. There really shouldn't be a set time frame, but I think there have been times where stages have been rushed. Have stages been rushed because the early stages of a relationship are generally unpleasant? The early stages of a relationship are a delicate ecosystem that can easily be trampled upon and destroyed before they can flourish. Is there a desire to get to the comfortable, stable section of a relationship as soon as possible to eliminate this feeling?
In a lot of ways, I perceive similarity between relationship and The Product Life Cycle (http://www.marketingteacher.com/lesson-store/lesson-plc.html#). Brand marketers wish to have the maturity stage last as long as possible. And I think that's the ultimate goal with relationships.
Some relationships outside the realm of romantic ones have a degree of applicability. I'm talking about plain old friendships. I moved to a new city about 16 months ago. In my first 6 months, I was making some new friends, but I was not entirely pleased with the way that certain friendships were developing. I felt that things with some friends weren't where I thought they should be. In the last 3-6 months, things have gotten to a point where I am happier. I was patient with these friendships and my friends were patient with me. Even friendships between generally low key guys can have their ups and downs.
I also think that in a romantic relationship, there could be a tendency to rush because one or both parties is missing something essential that the other person can provide. In essence, one or both parties is coming from a place of weakness. Perhaps the missing element is sexual fulfillment or emotional fulfillment.
Maybe being patient with people and trying to see the bigger picture is the correct approach, rather than wondering if specific, measurable outcomes in a regimented time frame is a right approach. The right outcomes could come in due time if the bigger picture and a looser time frame is considered.
These are all stream of consciousness, semi organized musings and I'd like to see what others think.
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I really really really wish i had taken things slower with Jersey boy. It would have saved me a lot of "feelings". ... lol0
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Yes, we all rush.
My friend met a guy this weekend and invited him over to hang out that night. When he left in the AM she was talking about how he is going to have to trim his beard if they date, etc. My friends and I were like "slow down, you met 6 hours ago."0 -
I have "rushed" things in the past, but have never felt rushed. I go at a pace that feels natural, normal and comfortable. So while I may have had my last boyfriend come home with me for turkey day within a few weeks of knowing each other, not once did either of us feel strange about it and therefore it didn't feel rushed. Though several people have expressed that they think it's too soon...
My advice to my friends that worry about going "too fast" has always been go at the rate that feels good for both of you. Do what feels natural and normal TO YOU and it will be fine. There's no set times when things should or should not happen and if you don't go with the vibe and feelings of them time, that's when you are making things uncomfortable.0 -
What is "rushed" or "too fast"?
There are couples who met and got married within a few months and are still happily married 25 years later, and those that take their time and then break up.
I will always be someone who approaches new things, new people, and new situations with speed, enthusiasm and optimism. What feels rushed for someone else will be a regular or slow pace for me. I believe in trusting my gut, going with my feelings and then overthinking the heck out of stuff later, mostly when in the shower.. (hey I'm not saying this is the BEST way to be..).
Life is too short (for me), to adhere to rules, someone else's pace or ideas on what is correct and proper. Will I make mistakes? Sure. Will I potentially get hurt? Possibly. But taking chances is one of the greatest feelings I know of.. and my only regrets in life have ever been NOT taking a chance, or taking too long to make a decision.0 -
What is "rushed" or "too fast"?
There are couples who met and got married within a few months and are still happily married 25 years later, and those that take their time and then break up.
I will always be someone who approaches new things, new people, and new situations with speed, enthusiasm and optimism. What feels rushed for someone else will be a regular or slow pace for me. I believe in trusting my gut, going with my feelings and then overthinking the heck out of stuff later, mostly when in the shower.. (hey I'm not saying this is the BEST way to be..).
Life is too short (for me), to adhere to rules, someone else's pace or ideas on what is correct and proper. Will I make mistakes? Sure. Will I potentially get hurt? Possibly. But taking chances is one of the greatest feelings I know of.. and my only regrets in life have ever been NOT taking a chance, or taking too long to make a decision.
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It could also be argued that a good relationship is one where you can rush things, because the people forming the relationship are compatible on many levels (aka as "I feel like I've known you for years!!!").A good relationship needs time to develop. There really shouldn't be a set time frame, but I think there have been times where stages have been rushed. Have stages been rushed because the early stages of a relationship are generally unpleasant? The early stages of a relationship are a delicate ecosystem that can easily be trampled upon and destroyed before they can flourish. Is there a desire to get to the comfortable, stable section of a relationship as soon as possible to eliminate this feeling?
I know I've screwed up with people (friends, girlfriends) in the past by doing things I shouldn't be doing too early... So I agree with you that things are fragile at this stage.
I'm however generally happier with people who have the same threshold/interests/mindset as me, where I feel I can be more myself from the get go and don't have to apologise for it - so I would pretty much always go for it and leave people on the side if the "relationship" is too chaotic for them.
Yes, but maybe not... You can take these chances with some people but if there are people available around you with who you don't have to "wait" and "take chances", then logic would dictate that you should focus on those people instead. Although when it's about relationships, we don't always act logically.Maybe being patient with people and trying to see the bigger picture is the correct approach, rather than wondering if specific, measurable outcomes in a regimented time frame is a right approach. The right outcomes could come in due time if the bigger picture and a looser time frame is considered.0 -
Yes, we all rush.
My friend met a guy this weekend and invited him over to hang out that night. When he left in the AM she was talking about how he is going to have to trim his beard if they date, etc. My friends and I were like "slow down, you met 6 hours ago."
This is like my friend... She will go out with a guy and be trying to change him the next day. She gets SO emotionally invested after seeing a guy once or twice.0 -
I've been going through these thoughts lately because I'm taking it super slow with pilot unlike my past endeavors that I've been infamous for on the boards. And because it's slower, the problem I'm running into is that the butterflies are down to 2-3 instead of a whole bunch. I think because the rush (literally) equals intensity for me which is nothing but lust, anxiety, stress and pheromones. :bigsmile: So I'm trying a patient, calm, happy, method and things are going more smooth (obviously as he keeps asking me out) but the fire isn't as hot as it was 1.5 weeks ago.
Dating is fun, but complicated sometimes! Or maybe substitute "fun" with "la Amazona"... Hehe
Btw DM, I kept to my sisters challenge and no more boyfriends for 2012!!! Woohoo!0 -
I rushed relationships in the past, and especially so right after the divorce (thinking I had a "shelf life"). In the last few years I've come to more of a realization that each relationship needs to go at it's own speed. You can't plan them. Just go with the flow and enjoy.0
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I'm not really sure what you mean by rushing. Rushing what? First kiss, first sex, first intro to friends, first shopping trip, first cooking together., living together, marraige..........???
I kinda feel the same as Kits and SB, if it feels right, then do it! :bigsmile:
If one of you isn't comfortable with the pace, then you're not on the same page, and it's probably not going to work out long term. :brokenheart:
A question to you DM - do you think that any particular relationship you've had would have lasted longer had you (or she) not rushed it??0 -
Yes, we all rush.
My friend met a guy this weekend and invited him over to hang out that night. When he left in the AM she was talking about how he is going to have to trim his beard if they date, etc. My friends and I were like "slow down, you met 6 hours ago."
This is like my friend... She will go out with a guy and be trying to change him the next day. She gets SO emotionally invested after seeing a guy once or twice.
Your mate sounds like she's got bigger problems than going too fast Sammy. Perhaps she needs to work on her co dependency and neediness?? And changing a guy, is pretty impossible, so....hmmm!0 -
Yes, but maybe not... You can take these chances with some people but if there are people available around you with who you don't have to "wait" and "take chances", then logic would dictate that you should focus on those people instead. Although when it's about relationships, we don't always act logically.Maybe being patient with people and trying to see the bigger picture is the correct approach, rather than wondering if specific, measurable outcomes in a regimented time frame is a right approach. The right outcomes could come in due time if the bigger picture and a looser time frame is considered.
I suspect different approaches apply to different types of relationship. I'd say it's worth relaxing and going with the flow in the early stages of a relationship that has potential to be longer-term or emotionally meaningful. Sometimes that pace will be 'quick', other times, 'slow'. If, however, it's a relationship that is intended/expected to be primarily physical but emotionally uninvolved, and both of you are on that page, then in that mode, I can understand having a 'timetable' you want to have achieved certain 'goals' by.
I think we are inclined to rush things in the early stages, in general. Maybe that's because many of us have absorbed certain expectations of when certain life events should have taken place by that possibly haven't kept pace with a rapidly-evolving, and changed society. Even in my own fairly-short lifetime, the changes in societal standards and expectations have been astonishing, and I'm not sure the 'timeline' I absorbed as a child from what I saw around me is really applicable any more. I also wonder if our priorities in finding a partner have shifted from emphasising intellectual and emotional compatibility to placing more emphasis on physical compatibility, which is often easier/faster to determine, which leads us to move forward faster (the expectation of sex on the third date...really?! N.B.Please note I'm not querying those who feel ready to be physically intimate on the third or even first date, just the idea that there is apparently an expectation now of physical intimacy at what seems like a very early stage of a relationship).
By the way - really interesting post, DM :flowerforyou:0 -
I will say that yes..I have "rushed romantic situations and friendships in the past.
Now my issue is more of not giving things a chance....I feel my biological clock ticking and if I meet someone who I know might be "fun" to hang with..or a good friend but I'm guessing would go no where else I don't even bother.
I don't have time to waste on something non long term is what my head tells me.
But I'm still lonely and frustrated so..my snap judgments aren't getting me anywhere yet again.0 -
WALL OF TEXT incoming
I guess it's all about the nuances , what each and everyone of us means when they use "coarse" words such as "relationship" or "rushing".
Well... I think once you have experienced mental and physical "fusion" with someone (to the extent it is possible, of course!) you realise that all relationships aren't born equal. It's a FACT that everyone is more compatible with some individuals (males or females) to a degree.I suspect different approaches apply to different types of relationship. Sometimes that pace will be 'quick', other times, 'slow'.
It's also a fact that some relationships can form quicker with some people than with others, because you are more "in the same place", give the same meaning to things.
Now, my experience has been that I'm normally able to tell pretty quickly when a relationship isn't going to have a bright future, and so in this case (no bright future) I will keep the pace "slow" from the start and even let go of the "partner" after a while.
On the other hand, if the relationship is going well (some people would call it "The One", I'd be more tempted to call these relationships "one of the ones"), then a quick pace will feel natural (there is no discomfort in doing so).
What I mean is:
what is the point in taking a potentially "not as good" relationship slowly to reach the same stage in 3 years you could have reached in another "good" relationship in 6 months? The quicker I can see if a relationship ends up as a failure or a success, the better.
Now, most people who have experience with relationships are "picky" because they'd rather go quickly. Been there, done that.
Yes, no relationships (short term or long term, meaningful or not) benefits from the participants being "stressed" (as opposed to "relaxed"), but the stakes are higher in a potential LTR so it's more difficult to act this way sometimes.I'd say it's worth relaxing and going with the flow in the early stages of a relationship that has potential to be longer-term or emotionally meaningful.
Of course it depends on what kind of "relationships" you are talking about here. I feel that you're switching at will between "purely sexual relationship (sexual)" and "love relationship (sexual and emotional)" to make your point, this isn't fair.If, however, it's a relationship that is intended/expected to be primarily physical but emotionally uninvolved, and both of you are on that page, then in that mode, I can understand having a 'timetable' you want to have achieved certain 'goals' by.[...]
I also wonder if our priorities in finding a partner have shifted from emphasising intellectual and emotional compatibility to placing more emphasis on physical compatibility, which is often easier/faster to determine, which leads us to move forward faster (the expectation of sex on the third date...really?![...]
N.B.Please note I'm not querying those who feel ready to be physically intimate on the third or even first date, just the idea that there is apparently an expectation now of physical intimacy at what seems like a very early stage of a relationship).
I hope you agree that a "love relationship" is both "sexual and emotional" (physical and mental).
With that clarified, I will reply to the points in your paragraph:
- Sexual relationships: There is no need for a timetable at all in a primarily physical relationship (which I would describe as a "sexual relationship"), as you will in this case just try to pack as much in as little time as possible. You don't have any real intent for a future, so it doesn't matter.
- Love relationships: You are right that there is a change in expectations (NOT priorities, the word is wrong as it gives more precedence to one thing as opposed to the other one which is simply not true in love relationships) in that finding a partner with who one is "sexually/physically compatible" is now considered as important as finding a partner with who you are "emotionally/mentally compatible".
What I mean by the word now is: people/society is now more open about this, women's pleasure is now not a taboo anymore, religion has now lost its grip on society (for which the physical sex is not for pleasure but for procreation), as you age and get some experience you now realise that good sex can make or break a relationship (and if you accept bad sex, then you are enduring a life of frustration).
The last thing I wanted to say is that, yes, there is an early expectation from me in "early-ish sex" in "Love relationships" for the following reasons:
- Sexual compatibility : for me sexual compatibility is as important as emotional compatibility in a "love relationship". Yes, sex and emotions are two pillars of a successful relationship for me.
The earlier I can decide if the relationship is going to be a "love relationship" the better. If the sex is bad, I can tell after (let's say, arbitrary...) 3 dates that the relationship is NOT going to be a "love relationship", which is as early as you can know probably. If I was using purely "emotional/mental" information, it would take me months perhaps... The quicker I can gauge the relationship, the better.
Also, sex is normally NOT an unpleasant physical and mental experience either in my case, so why wait?
Now I get that for other people sex too early can be an unpleasant mental (as in: against what you want) and maybe physical experience... Fine, that just mean we don't really have (what is coming next):
- Mental compatibility : sometimes, I disagree with women on something as fundamental as "how early should we have sex". It's completely fine.
This clearly is such a massive indicator of mental/social compatibility (education, religion, experience with relationships, beliefs, possibility of trusting others, ...) and physical compatibility (comfortable with their own body, virgin, ...), so in the case a woman doesn't want to have "early sex", we just aren't on the same page.
With my current situation in life (age, experience), I have an expectation for "early sex" which (I have seen so far) doesn't unreasonable either (in our society, I'm pretty sure that in Saoudi Arabia things would be different).
In my "belief system", having sex within the first month (with or without the desire for a LTR) isn't a big deal at all and there is a good proportion of people who think like me, so I am actually surprised you are surprised by this expectation ("the expectation of sex on the third date...really?!").
Yes, many people have that expectation, and many people don't also. But it's not a marginal part of the population (male or female) who have this expectation either (depends on the people who you hang out with thought).0 -
I think the older we get the more we know what we want, but also scared to waste time so we rush into things. Rushing into my current relationship was the best thing I ever did.
It was rough at first, my brain telling me it would all end up like every other relationship I've ever had (in the gutter). But for some reason this one felt different. And yes, it's not all kitties and roses ALL the time, but I'm not sure I could be much happier with things at this moment if I tried.
We've been together for a bit over 5 months. In 5 months I went from single, living alone, no pets - just me, my couch and my TV to last night, cuddling on the couch with the best man I think I could ever find and his dog on the side of me. These things are what make my place a home. I thought I was happy before - no responsibilities but my own, no one to answer to. But I didn't realize just how lonely all that was.
Now, my stances on marriage and kids are still the same - NO, NO, NO. But I could see being happy if every day was like last night. I know I'm good single, so if it does crash and burn, I'll be fine.0 -
Yes, but maybe not... You can take these chances with some people but if there are people available around you with who you don't have to "wait" and "take chances", then logic would dictate that you should focus on those people instead. Although when it's about relationships, we don't always act logically.Maybe being patient with people and trying to see the bigger picture is the correct approach, rather than wondering if specific, measurable outcomes in a regimented time frame is a right approach. The right outcomes could come in due time if the bigger picture and a looser time frame is considered.
I suspect different approaches apply to different types of relationship. I'd say it's worth relaxing and going with the flow in the early stages of a relationship that has potential to be longer-term or emotionally meaningful. Sometimes that pace will be 'quick', other times, 'slow'. If, however, it's a relationship that is intended/expected to be primarily physical but emotionally uninvolved, and both of you are on that page, then in that mode, I can understand having a 'timetable' you want to have achieved certain 'goals' by.
I think we are inclined to rush things in the early stages, in general. Maybe that's because many of us have absorbed certain expectations of when certain life events should have taken place by that possibly haven't kept pace with a rapidly-evolving, and changed society. Even in my own fairly-short lifetime, the changes in societal standards and expectations have been astonishing, and I'm not sure the 'timeline' I absorbed as a child from what I saw around me is really applicable any more. I also wonder if our priorities in finding a partner have shifted from emphasising intellectual and emotional compatibility to placing more emphasis on physical compatibility, which is often easier/faster to determine, which leads us to move forward faster (the expectation of sex on the third date...really?! N.B.Please note I'm not querying those who feel ready to be physically intimate on the third or even first date, just the idea that there is apparently an expectation now of physical intimacy at what seems like a very early stage of a relationship).
By the way - really interesting post, DM :flowerforyou:
I agree it's an interesting topic!
If a guy thought we were gonna have sex on the third date I'd legit laugh my *kitten* off! Maybe three months but three dates? Haha talk about rushing0 -
WALL OF TEXT incoming
I guess it's all about the nuances , what each and everyone of us means when they use "coarse" words such as "relationship" or "rushing".
Well... I think once you have experienced mental and physical "fusion" with someone (to the extent it is possible, of course!) you realise that all relationships aren't born equal. It's a FACT that everyone is more compatible with some individuals (males or females) to a degree.I suspect different approaches apply to different types of relationship. Sometimes that pace will be 'quick', other times, 'slow'.
It's also a fact that some relationships can form quicker with some people than with others, because you are more "in the same place", give the same meaning to things.
Look, if you're going to cherry-pick bits of my posts, and quote things out of context, please make it clear that you are doing so. You can use ... between sentences or put the separate sentences from a chunk of text on different lines.
Of course different relationships form at different paces. Friendships as well as romantic/physical pairings. Did I imply otherwise?Now, my experience has been that I'm normally able to tell pretty quickly when a relationship isn't going to have a bright future, and so in this case (no bright future) I will keep the pace "slow" from the start and even let go of the "partner" after a while.
On the other hand, if the relationship is going well (some people would call it "The One", I'd be more tempted to call these relationships "one of the ones"), then a quick pace will feel natural (there is no discomfort in doing so).
What I mean is:
what is the point in taking a potentially "not as good" relationship slowly to reach the same stage in 3 years you could have reached in another "good" relationship in 6 months? The quicker I can see if a relationship ends up as a failure or a success, the better.
Now, most people who have experience with relationships are "picky" because they'd rather go quickly. Been there, done that.
The point is that different relationships, as noted above, have a different pace of evolution. What's the point of applying a standardised 'timetable' to that process or forcing them to develop at a speed you think they 'ought' to have? There are people you have an instant strong connection with; some of these relationships are short, intense and then fizzle out, others last a lifetime. Other relationships start slow, and either develop into closeness or remain merely nodding acquaintances, or indeed fall out of your life altogether. If you only value the quick starters, you'd lose out on a lot of good relationships - friendships, romances, business or otherwise - which is really the point I was making in the second line of my opening paragraph, which you quote below.
Yes, no relationships (short term or long term, meaningful or not) benefits from the participants being "stressed" (as opposed to "relaxed"), but the stakes are higher in a potential LTR so it's more difficult to act this way sometimes.I'd say it's worth relaxing and going with the flow in the early stages of a relationship that has potential to be longer-term or emotionally meaningful.
Of course it depends on what kind of "relationships" you are talking about here. I feel that you're switching at will between "purely sexual relationship (sexual)" and "love relationship (sexual and emotional)" to make your point, this isn't fair.If, however, it's a relationship that is intended/expected to be primarily physical but emotionally uninvolved, and both of you are on that page, then in that mode, I can understand having a 'timetable' you want to have achieved certain 'goals' by.[...]
I also wonder if our priorities in finding a partner have shifted from emphasising intellectual and emotional compatibility to placing more emphasis on physical compatibility, which is often easier/faster to determine, which leads us to move forward faster (the expectation of sex on the third date...really?![...]
N.B.Please note I'm not querying those who feel ready to be physically intimate on the third or even first date, just the idea that there is apparently an expectation now of physical intimacy at what seems like a very early stage of a relationship).
I hope you agree that a "love relationship" is both "sexual and emotional" (physical and mental).
Actually, I was aiming to compare and contrast two differing types of relationships with differing priorities, which has nothing to do with 'fair' or not. I think the paragraph in toto makes that clear. Do I really need to spell out that most people looking for a long term romantic partnership or"love relationship" are looking for emotional, intellectual and physical intimacy with their partner in the current era?
No, but you might be less than tolerant of any delays to gratification beyond what you think is 'reasonable' if what you are looking for is solely a physical connection. If that's not happening when you think it should, you'd walk away, in all likelihood, because you have no investment in a longer-term future, as you say. That is the 'timetable' I mean in this case.With that clarified, I will reply to the points in your paragraph:
- Sexual relationships: There is no need for a timetable at all in a primarily physical relationship (which I would describe as a "sexual relationship"), as you will in this case just try to pack as much in as little time as possible. You don't have any real intent for a future, so it doesn't matter.- Love relationships: You are right that there is a change in expectations (NOT priorities, the word is wrong as it gives more precedence to one thing as opposed to the other one which is simply not true in love relationships) in that finding a partner with who one is "sexually/physically compatible" is now considered as important as finding a partner with who you are "emotionally/mentally compatible".
What I mean by the word now is: people/society is now more open about this, women's pleasure is now not a taboo anymore, religion has now lost its grip on society (for which the physical sex is not for pleasure but for procreation), as you age and get some experience you now realise that good sex can make or break a relationship (and if you accept bad sex, then you are enduring a life of frustration).
All of which actually agrees with my point - that we are now much more interested in physical compatibility than we previously were. Our priorities - and that is the right word in this context - in looking for a life partner to have a loving relationship with, have changed. The expectation that husband and wife, or their equivalents, might have a mutually-satisfying sexual relationship simply was not a primary consideration, if it was considered at all, in choosing a spouse, prior to the late 20th Century, in most strata of society. Ever heard the phrase "Lie back and think of England"? There's a reason that phrase entered the vernacular! What was generally considered, and held to be of importance, at least in successful matches, was a meeting of minds, and an ability to get on with each other civilly for a very, very long time - the intellectual and emotional match.
I don't believe I said anything about sex being an unpleasant experience, just that the expectation of physical intimacy at date three (and I'm assuming, perhaps ill-advisedly, that those dates are in fairly quick succession, so you might have known each other only a few weeks) seems very fast/presumptuous to me. Clearly this is a personal preference on both our parts. I don't personally wish to separate the emotional or intellectual from the physical - the idea of sex with someone I don't feel I fully know is anathema to me.The last thing I wanted to say is that, yes, there is an early expectation from me in "early-ish sex" in "Love relationships" for the following reasons:
- Sexual compatibility : for me sexual compatibility is as important as emotional compatibility in a "love relationship". Yes, sex and emotions are two pillars of a successful relationship for me.
The earlier I can decide if the relationship is going to be a "love relationship" the better. If the sex is bad, I can tell after (let's say, arbitrary...) 3 dates that the relationship is NOT going to be a "love relationship", which is as early as you can know probably. If I was using purely "emotional/mental" information, it would take me months perhaps... The quicker I can gauge the relationship, the better.
Also, sex is normally NOT an unpleasant physical and mental experience either in my case, so why wait?
Now I get that for other people sex too early can be an unpleasant mental (as in: against what you want) and maybe physical experience... Fine, that just mean we don't really have (what is coming next):- Mental compatibility : sometimes, I disagree with women on something as fundamental as "how early should we have sex". It's completely fine.
This clearly is such a massive indicator of mental/social compatibility (education, religion, experience with relationships, beliefs, possibility of trusting others, ...) and physical compatibility (comfortable with their own body, virgin, ...), so in the case a woman doesn't want to have "early sex", we just aren't on the same page.
With my current situation in life (age, experience), I have an expectation for "early sex" which (I have seen so far) doesn't unreasonable either (in our society, I'm pretty sure that in Saoudi Arabia things would be different).
In my "belief system", having sex within the first month (with or without the desire for a LTR) isn't a big deal at all and there is a good proportion of people who think like me, so I am actually surprised you are surprised by this expectation ("the expectation of sex on the third date...really?!").
Yes, many people have that expectation, and many people don't also. But it's not a marginal part of the population (male or female) who have this expectation either (depends on the people who you hang out with thought).
I'm a reasonably observant adult, so I'm less surprised by the expectation, given the intense sexualisation of much of our society, than by the percentage of the population who purportedly go along with it. Contrary to what you seem to think, it is not necessary to be Saudi Arabian - or even ultra-conservative - to have a personal belief system that treats sex as important enough to treat with care, and to prefer to align physical with emotional and intellectual intimacy, though of course, as noted above, that stage may be reached more or less quickly with different pairings. But we've been down that road several dozen times before, and we will never agree, I'm afraid, so perhaps we could agree to disagree, and leave it at that.0 -
Maybe not quite what the op intended but I have noticed in my real life there has over time been what seems like a rush for young couples to get married a lot quicker then often seems to be wise from an outside looking standpoint.0
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@ Christine...3 months? Wow. Well I guess it just goes to show you how different people are and how important it is to be on the same page about these things.
I was with my ex for nearly 6 years. Think we had sex on our second date... lol.
I was the one who didn't want to wait!
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WALL OF TEXT incoming
I guess it's all about the nuances , what each and everyone of us means when they use "coarse" words such as "relationship" or "rushing".
Well... I think once you have experienced mental and physical "fusion" with someone (to the extent it is possible, of course!) you realise that all relationships aren't born equal. It's a FACT that everyone is more compatible with some individuals (males or females) to a degree.I suspect different approaches apply to different types of relationship. Sometimes that pace will be 'quick', other times, 'slow'.
It's also a fact that some relationships can form quicker with some people than with others, because you are more "in the same place", give the same meaning to things.
Look, if you're going to cherry-pick bits of my posts, and quote things out of context, please make it clear that you are doing so. You can use ... between sentences or put the separate sentences from a chunk of text on different lines.
Of course different relationships form at different paces. Friendships as well as romantic/physical pairings. Did I imply otherwise?Now, my experience has been that I'm normally able to tell pretty quickly when a relationship isn't going to have a bright future, and so in this case (no bright future) I will keep the pace "slow" from the start and even let go of the "partner" after a while.
On the other hand, if the relationship is going well (some people would call it "The One", I'd be more tempted to call these relationships "one of the ones"), then a quick pace will feel natural (there is no discomfort in doing so).
What I mean is:
what is the point in taking a potentially "not as good" relationship slowly to reach the same stage in 3 years you could have reached in another "good" relationship in 6 months? The quicker I can see if a relationship ends up as a failure or a success, the better.
Now, most people who have experience with relationships are "picky" because they'd rather go quickly. Been there, done that.
The point is that different relationships, as noted above, have a different pace of evolution. What's the point of applying a standardised 'timetable' to that process or forcing them to develop at a speed you think they 'ought' to have? There are people you have an instant strong connection with; some of these relationships are short, intense and then fizzle out, others last a lifetime. Other relationships start slow, and either develop into closeness or remain merely nodding acquaintances, or indeed fall out of your life altogether. If you only value the quick starters, you'd lose out on a lot of good relationships - friendships, romances, business or otherwise - which is really the point I was making in the second line of my opening paragraph, which you quote below.
Yes, no relationships (short term or long term, meaningful or not) benefits from the participants being "stressed" (as opposed to "relaxed"), but the stakes are higher in a potential LTR so it's more difficult to act this way sometimes.I'd say it's worth relaxing and going with the flow in the early stages of a relationship that has potential to be longer-term or emotionally meaningful.
Of course it depends on what kind of "relationships" you are talking about here. I feel that you're switching at will between "purely sexual relationship (sexual)" and "love relationship (sexual and emotional)" to make your point, this isn't fair.If, however, it's a relationship that is intended/expected to be primarily physical but emotionally uninvolved, and both of you are on that page, then in that mode, I can understand having a 'timetable' you want to have achieved certain 'goals' by.[...]
I also wonder if our priorities in finding a partner have shifted from emphasising intellectual and emotional compatibility to placing more emphasis on physical compatibility, which is often easier/faster to determine, which leads us to move forward faster (the expectation of sex on the third date...really?![...]
N.B.Please note I'm not querying those who feel ready to be physically intimate on the third or even first date, just the idea that there is apparently an expectation now of physical intimacy at what seems like a very early stage of a relationship).
I hope you agree that a "love relationship" is both "sexual and emotional" (physical and mental).
Actually, I was aiming to compare and contrast two differing types of relationships with differing priorities, which has nothing to do with 'fair' or not. I think the paragraph in toto makes that clear. Do I really need to spell out that most people looking for a long term romantic partnership or"love relationship" are looking for emotional, intellectual and physical intimacy with their partner in the current era?
No, but you might be less than tolerant of any delays to gratification beyond what you think is 'reasonable' if what you are looking for is solely a physical connection. If that's not happening when you think it should, you'd walk away, in all likelihood, because you have no investment in a longer-term future, as you say. That is the 'timetable' I mean in this case.With that clarified, I will reply to the points in your paragraph:
- Sexual relationships: There is no need for a timetable at all in a primarily physical relationship (which I would describe as a "sexual relationship"), as you will in this case just try to pack as much in as little time as possible. You don't have any real intent for a future, so it doesn't matter.- Love relationships: You are right that there is a change in expectations (NOT priorities, the word is wrong as it gives more precedence to one thing as opposed to the other one which is simply not true in love relationships) in that finding a partner with who one is "sexually/physically compatible" is now considered as important as finding a partner with who you are "emotionally/mentally compatible".
What I mean by the word now is: people/society is now more open about this, women's pleasure is now not a taboo anymore, religion has now lost its grip on society (for which the physical sex is not for pleasure but for procreation), as you age and get some experience you now realise that good sex can make or break a relationship (and if you accept bad sex, then you are enduring a life of frustration).
All of which actually agrees with my point - that we are now much more interested in physical compatibility than we previously were. Our priorities - and that is the right word in this context - in looking for a life partner to have a loving relationship with, have changed. The expectation that husband and wife, or their equivalents, might have a mutually-satisfying sexual relationship simply was not a primary consideration, if it was considered at all, in choosing a spouse, prior to the late 20th Century, in most strata of society. Ever heard the phrase "Lie back and think of England"? There's a reason that phrase entered the vernacular! What was generally considered, and held to be of importance, at least in successful matches, was a meeting of minds, and an ability to get on with each other civilly for a very, very long time - the intellectual and emotional match.
I don't believe I said anything about sex being an unpleasant experience, just that the expectation of physical intimacy at date three (and I'm assuming, perhaps ill-advisedly, that those dates are in fairly quick succession, so you might have known each other only a few weeks) seems very fast/presumptuous to me. Clearly this is a personal preference on both our parts. I don't personally wish to separate the emotional or intellectual from the physical - the idea of sex with someone I don't feel I fully know is anathema to me.The last thing I wanted to say is that, yes, there is an early expectation from me in "early-ish sex" in "Love relationships" for the following reasons:
- Sexual compatibility : for me sexual compatibility is as important as emotional compatibility in a "love relationship". Yes, sex and emotions are two pillars of a successful relationship for me.
The earlier I can decide if the relationship is going to be a "love relationship" the better. If the sex is bad, I can tell after (let's say, arbitrary...) 3 dates that the relationship is NOT going to be a "love relationship", which is as early as you can know probably. If I was using purely "emotional/mental" information, it would take me months perhaps... The quicker I can gauge the relationship, the better.
Also, sex is normally NOT an unpleasant physical and mental experience either in my case, so why wait?
Now I get that for other people sex too early can be an unpleasant mental (as in: against what you want) and maybe physical experience... Fine, that just mean we don't really have (what is coming next):- Mental compatibility : sometimes, I disagree with women on something as fundamental as "how early should we have sex". It's completely fine.
This clearly is such a massive indicator of mental/social compatibility (education, religion, experience with relationships, beliefs, possibility of trusting others, ...) and physical compatibility (comfortable with their own body, virgin, ...), so in the case a woman doesn't want to have "early sex", we just aren't on the same page.
With my current situation in life (age, experience), I have an expectation for "early sex" which (I have seen so far) doesn't unreasonable either (in our society, I'm pretty sure that in Saoudi Arabia things would be different).
In my "belief system", having sex within the first month (with or without the desire for a LTR) isn't a big deal at all and there is a good proportion of people who think like me, so I am actually surprised you are surprised by this expectation ("the expectation of sex on the third date...really?!").
Yes, many people have that expectation, and many people don't also. But it's not a marginal part of the population (male or female) who have this expectation either (depends on the people who you hang out with thought).
I'm a reasonably observant adult, so I'm less surprised by the expectation, given the intense sexualisation of much of our society, than by the percentage of the population who purportedly go along with it. Contrary to what you seem to think, it is not necessary to be Saudi Arabian - or even ultra-conservative - to have a personal belief system that treats sex as important enough to treat with care, and to prefer to align physical with emotional and intellectual intimacy, though of course, as noted above, that stage may be reached more or less quickly with different pairings. But we've been down that road several dozen times before, and we will never agree, I'm afraid, so perhaps we could agree to disagree, and leave it at that.
And the prize for the longest posts goes to............................:laugh: :flowerforyou:0
