Beginning of a relationship...
Replies
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Okay,now this will seem a contradiction and also a suck up...it is neither.
There is a general sex appeal that people can have which has nothing to do with a physical desire to have sex with them.
My previous post on this was for that situation and not the same as this although it is hard to explain the difference.
All the ladies here in this group that over the last year I have gotten to know in one degree or another has an inherent sex appeal and that is not an appearance only thing.
It stems from being able to stand up and be who they are and that doesn`t change when I disagree with one or we frustrate/anger each other.
There is no way to write it out where it will make complete logical sense because it is not a logical thing.
Christine,I don`t "pick on you" despite what you may think because I just want to make you feel bad or to be condescending.
It is because as a person who has lived most of their life sees you as a perfectly fine young lady that is imo sabotaging at every turn that which they do want to be and have.
Unless you stop that nothing is going to change. :frown:0 -
Yowzas!
Okay... First of, I'm not ruining men because of the way I approach men and dating. I know it was a question, not a statement so I'm answering. The fact is, I have turned guys off by being too hard to get or for not being so aggressive. And that fine. Next!!!
Just like some men rather be an active pursuer (they enjoy the chase) and get turned off by aggressive/ initiating women. As a matter of fact a lot of the men that I have dated have told me they didn't like when a woman would pursue them. They found me different and that's what they liked about me.
I could say to women who initiate etc that they're making men even lazier to pursue a woman like me. One who wants him to put effort.
We are all different. You're not going to make me feel bad for what I believe and how I choose to date. I'd never do that to you.
Maybe I'm old fashioned but the right guy for me will do what he needs to do to be with me and I'll do what I need to do to be with him.
Christine, I agree with you. I want a guy to call me because he wants to, I want a guy who will ask me out, who will miss me. I will reciprocate gladly if I'm interested but I want him to do the legwork in the beginning.0 -
Maybe I misunderstood, but I got the impression that you thought that I have to go after men because I have no sex appeal, but someone like Diana (just using you as an example, Diana, I always like your posts!) doesn't have be aggressive with men because she has sex appeal and men will naturally want her. Maybe I was confused? That is why I was a little upset.
That's how it read to me... and perhaps I am off base here, but I see that as true in my life. The women who ooze sex appeal (and a few at church who don't but are very beautiful) have no problem attracting men. The rest of us have to work a little harder with what we've got (make sure our appearance is the best it can be, smile at all guys, respond pleasantly when a man talks to us, look for ways to initiate chit-chat with random strangers).
This doesn't make me upset. It's just life.
It's like the racism I have to deal with on a constant basis here in the south. Getting upset, crossing your arms and stamping your foot about "it's not fair" does not make your life better. Figuring out ways to work around it may not change ignorant people, but it WILL make your life better.
Interesting that you've read it the same way JJ. I think the simple difference between Christine, you and any other woman that doesnt have sex, is that you're not going to naturally ooze sex appeal? I think that's what I meant when I sited Diana as having sex appeal. It just means that at some point she might be willing to have sex with the guy and will manipulate that decision to her own liking. That is what 'most' women do! They use their sex appeal to attract men. As a young guy recently said to me, he can tell if a woman is interested in sex, cos of the way she uses that sex appeal - in the way she dresses, smiles, flirts, touches etc........
I'd imagine that woman NOT interested in sex, or have never had sex, won't have it? Correct me if that is wrong........I'm just going by what men see really......0 -
Maybe I misunderstood, but I got the impression that you thought that I have to go after men because I have no sex appeal, but someone like Diana (just using you as an example, Diana, I always like your posts!) doesn't have be aggressive with men because she has sex appeal and men will naturally want her. Maybe I was confused? That is why I was a little upset.
That's how it read to me... and perhaps I am off base here, but I see that as true in my life. The women who ooze sex appeal (and a few at church who don't but are very beautiful) have no problem attracting men. The rest of us have to work a little harder with what we've got (make sure our appearance is the best it can be, smile at all guys, respond pleasantly when a man talks to us, look for ways to initiate chit-chat with random strangers).
This doesn't make me upset. It's just life.
It's like the racism I have to deal with on a constant basis here in the south. Getting upset, crossing your arms and stamping your foot about "it's not fair" does not make your life better. Figuring out ways to work around it may not change ignorant people, but it WILL make your life better.
Yeah,really...no way do you ooze sex appeal. :huh:
*tearing what is left of my hair out in exasperated frustration* :mad:0 -
Yowzas!
Okay... First of, I'm not ruining men because of the way I approach men and dating. I know it was a question, not a statement so I'm answering. The fact is, I have turned guys off by being too hard to get or for not being so aggressive. And that fine. Next!!!
Just like some men rather be an active pursuer (they enjoy the chase) and get turned off by aggressive/ initiating women. As a matter of fact a lot of the men that I have dated have told me they didn't like when a woman would pursue them. They found me different and that's what they liked about me.
I could say to women who initiate etc that they're making men even lazier to pursue a woman like me. One who wants him to put effort.
We are all different. You're not going to make me feel bad for what I believe and how I choose to date. I'd never do that to you.
Maybe I'm old fashioned but the right guy for me will do what he needs to do to be with me and I'll do what I need to do to be with him.
Christine, I agree with you. I want a guy to call me because he wants to, I want a guy who will ask me out, who will miss me. I will reciprocate gladly if I'm interested but I want him to do the legwork in the beginning.
You're right Diana, everyone is different. But let me ask you a question. You said earlier that you use your sex appeal to keep him interested/captivated. Do you think a guy would have much interest if that sex appeal wasn't there? And also, do you not think you are in control of what's going on here and thereby manipulating the situations?
I think its the norm for the woman to be deciding when and where sex takes place. This is what I mean by having control. And of course the guy is going to be towing the line, cos he knows he will have to wait until she decides. We all have ways of envcouraging a man we like. One is sex appeal. One is suggesting a date. One is cooking for him. One is showering him with pressies............etc etc. At the end of the day, it's all about encouraging a mate........(perhaps 'encouraging' is a better word than 'manipulating', but it means the same thing really..........)0 -
So because I have this "sex appeal", I will have sex with a guy?? I havent had sex with the guy I'm dating and don't plan to unless we are in a committed relationship. He knows this.
And what does having sex appeal mean? The way I dress? The way I talk? That's confidence. I feel good so I carry myself a certain way.0 -
Anna, what I meant by sex appeal is being sexy by the way I talk (flirt), the way I presen myself (like a lady but a sexy one!), by my femininity. I also said I used my grace. I'm a funny gal. I'm a goofy one. I am myself with men and have been told I have a great fun adventurous personality.
I'm aware that keeping a guy around dangling my vagina or the promise of my vagina isn't going to start anything real and of substance. But I also know that the type of man I'm attracted to wants a sexy woman. And I plan to keep myself maintained for my man.
Anyway, I'm rambling.
Anna, I'm nOt sure if the guy would stick around if I wasn't me. Maybe not because he was attracted to ME.0 -
So because I have this "sex appeal", I will have sex with a guy?? I havent had sex with the guy I'm dating and don't plan to unless we are in a committed relationship. He knows this.
And what does having sex appeal mean? The way I dress? The way I talk? That's confidence. I feel good so I carry myself a certain way.
No, sex appeal certainly does NOT mean you're going to have sex. It's just the appeal............define it however you wish. I guess each and every one of us will have a different definition. 'Sexy' to me, is probably different to your sexy in guys too!! :bigsmile:
But yes, to me, sex appeal is flirting, smiling, touching, how you dress, perfume, eye contact, innuendo, compliments, laughter.............etc etc0 -
Mesha, This wasn't meant as an either/or situation. And I have no 'feminist' agenda at all actually. The sex appeal and entitled attitude that I described were intended to be two different thoughts although I now realize I lumped them in the same sentence and might have sounded confusing.Anna & P are spot on here!
Kudos to anyone who wants to use their sex appeal to get a guy, but please don't ruin men for the rest of us ladies who are willing to be equal partners. Is it possible that some guys have been burned by this 'entitled' attitude and that's why they don't stick around or why they get lazy with future pursuits? Asking a question here, so please take it as a question and not a statement...
i dont understand these either/or dichotomies that these type topics seem to descend into. in fact i think it's a bit self-insulting to assume you can't be both sexually appealing AND "non entitled" (which assume is code for feminist) at the same time...
it's not either/or ladies.. you do yourselves (and the men around you) a disservice by limiting yourselves. as i've said before some women have been doing this for centuries. maybe it's a new idea to those groups who have only been relatively recently enlightened to feminist ideals, but jut because it's new to you and you havent figured out how to balance the two doesnt meant it's not possible to do
Again, Kudos to anyone who wants to use sex appeal...
But I honestly wonder if any woman who feels that she deserves (*deserves is a key word here) the man to pursue and give more, might in fact be exhausting to him?I just feel the beginning is his time to pursue and give more.
I thought we were talking about the beginning of a RELATIONSHIP too, where things are staring to gel (assuming you are past the first few dates). There seems to be some confusion between that time-frame and being the first one to ask someone on a date.
Carl, Yes, this is part of what I was wondering, but I'm also curious if it extends to future relationships I guess.While you may think it is wrapping a guy around your finger be aware that we may have also made a measured decision to tolerate a princess mindset as far as the benefit to us outweighs the headache you are.0 -
Carl, Yes, this is part of what I was wondering, but I'm also curious if it extends to future relationships I guess.While you may think it is wrapping a guy around your finger be aware that we may have also made a measured decision to tolerate a princess mindset as far as the benefit to us outweighs the headache you are.
I suppose everyone is looking at past experiences and the knowledge of life and situations they bring in how we react to future circumstances.
People cheated on will be keen on the signals of it or those they missed the first time for example.
It is nothing against Diana,just her words so using them,I am sure she cares not in the least how I would react since it is not real life but if a lady told me that or let it be known then with where I am at in life that would probably end anything no matter what sex appeal she had unless as I said,I decided to get what I could with the same amount of respect returned.I just feel the beginning is his time to pursue and give more.
Sorry again to sound harsh but such a one sided,my wants supersede yours attitude just to me is not a starting point for a partnership.0 -
I don't take it personal. I enjoy my dating life and understand we are different. This goes back to being "high maintenance" which I have admitted I am.
The guy knows I like him. The guy knows he's appreciated, he knows he makes me smile, etc. I also seem to fall more into traditional roles when it comes to home life. I prefer to serve my man, to let him do the manly things around the house, i like to be the domesticated type. I enjoy taking care of my home and my man. Sooo, again I really do think it's cultural here.0 -
I realize "manipulate" can carry a somewhat negative connotation, but this doesn't have to be the case:
manipulate (verb) 1. Handle or control (a tool, mechanism, etc.), typically in a skillful manner: "he manipulated the dials".
manipulation (noun) 1. Shrewd or devious management, especially for one's own advantage.
Focus on "shrewd," not "devious." :-)
I'm saying that women oftentimes know what's best for men. And when you spot an attractive, intelligent male, you need to ensure he understand that what's best for him is having you at his side. ;-)
I respect that you want the male to be the aggressor. I do think aggressive women have an advantage, but whatever. Even if you want to be "passive," you still need to send the right signals to ensure the male plays the role you want him to play. Or, put another way, you need to manipulate him into being the aggressor, with you as his prey.
This could be something as simple as a flirtatious smile, a nice outfit, eye contact, touching his shoulder when talking to him after being introduced with a group of friends. Whatever. But it definitely involves active participation on your part. And as I said previously, subtlety is not your friend. Outside of impressionist painters and avant garde jazz musicians, men just don't do subtle.
I don't typically like to call out particular posters here, but just look at La_Amazona's current profile pic. That has "please come talk to me" written all over it. The smile, the outfit, the confident posture, the friendliness... She doesn't have to come over and talk to anyone. Any male with a pulse can spot her from way across the room, and feel he has the green light to at least say hello, or try to buy her a drink. This is the kind of positive manipulation that can make a huge difference in your love life.
--P0 -
It's really not this complicated0
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Maybe I misunderstood, but I got the impression that you thought that I have to go after men because I have no sex appeal, but someone like Diana (just using you as an example, Diana, I always like your posts!) doesn't have be aggressive with men because she has sex appeal and men will naturally want her. Maybe I was confused? That is why I was a little upset.
That's how it read to me... and perhaps I am off base here, but I see that as true in my life. The women who ooze sex appeal (and a few at church who don't but are very beautiful) have no problem attracting men. The rest of us have to work a little harder with what we've got (make sure our appearance is the best it can be, smile at all guys, respond pleasantly when a man talks to us, look for ways to initiate chit-chat with random strangers).
This doesn't make me upset. It's just life.
It's like the racism I have to deal with on a constant basis here in the south. Getting upset, crossing your arms and stamping your foot about "it's not fair" does not make your life better. Figuring out ways to work around it may not change ignorant people, but it WILL make your life better.
Interesting that you've read it the same way JJ. I think the simple difference between Christine, you and any other woman that doesnt have sex, is that you're not going to naturally ooze sex appeal? I think that's what I meant when I sited Diana as having sex appeal. It just means that at some point she might be willing to have sex with the guy and will manipulate that decision to her own liking. That is what 'most' women do! They use their sex appeal to attract men. As a young guy recently said to me, he can tell if a woman is interested in sex, cos of the way she uses that sex appeal - in the way she dresses, smiles, flirts, touches etc........
I'd imagine that woman NOT interested in sex, or have never had sex, won't have it? Correct me if that is wrong........I'm just going by what men see really......
I disagree. One of my best friends didn't lose her virginity til we were seniors in college. But from the moment I met her freshman year, she was one of the sexiest people I know (I promise I don't mean that creepily lol). It's something about the way that she carried herself - über confident and happy. It didn't matter what jean size she wore or that she was a virgin. Having sex did not change that feeling for me.
I guess I think everyone's got sex appeal but its in different ways. I don't glance at every man and think "sexy." Some men you have to get to know before you think that. I know I'm one of those people whom that is true for. I know I haven't had sex but I am plenty active on my own lol. But I am definitely willing and excited to have sex when the time comes!!0 -
Yeah,really...no way do you ooze sex appeal. :huh:
*tearing what is left of my hair out in exasperated frustration* :mad:
Not sure how to take this... I've been told by both men AND women that my number 2 problem with men is not exhibiting enough sex appeal (the #1 problem being I'm too smart/intimidating). Thankfully I'm seeing someone who is more concerned with personality0 -
It's really not this complicated
Hi!!!! I've missed you Jon!!0 -
The women who ooze sex appeal (and a few at church who don't but are very beautiful) have no problem attracting men. The rest of us have to work a little harder with what we've got (make sure our appearance is the best it can be, smile at all guys, respond pleasantly when a man talks to us, look for ways to initiate chit-chat with random strangers).
This doesn't make me upset. It's just life.
It's like the racism I have to deal with on a constant basis here in the south. Getting upset, crossing your arms and stamping your foot about "it's not fair" does not make your life better. Figuring out ways to work around it may not change ignorant people, but it WILL make your life better.
Interesting that you've read it the same way JJ. I think the simple difference between Christine, you and any other woman that doesnt have sex, is that you're not going to naturally ooze sex appeal? I think that's what I meant when I sited Diana as having sex appeal.
I don't think I ooze sex appeal. And I'm not trying to. Because I don't believe in leading men on. Sex is very important to me in the context of a permanent relationship, but I'm not going to go out in short skirts and act *too* flirty because that kind of thing carries the expectation that if a man is on good behavior for enough dates he'll have a chance at the cookie. And with me he won't. So I don't carry myself that way. It's not fair to the guy, and it wastes my time if it draws in men who don't share my view on sex. I attract quite a bit of male attention (guys rushing to open doors for me, guys making chit chat) but rarely got asked out until I went on Match.com and I think that's because they can tell right away (without me even having to say it) my mindset about sex.
I hope that Diana isn't upset with this convo, but like P said with her profile pic you instantly think sexy hot mama. I guarantee you no man is going to look at her and expect that she waits for marriage. If she told someone that he wouldn't believe her, but figure she's just like every other woman who tries to pretend "I'm not that kind of girl." She looks like the kind of fun party girl who on occasion will get drunk, take her shirt off, and give current man a good time early in. Before anyone jumps on me, go back and read her posts about Friend Lover and Smiley. Those are things Diana herself wrote. At the same time, she is very confident in who she is and you never get the impression that she is doing these things in desperation or because she thinks it's the only way to snag a man or keep him around. She just likes to have fun.
This is the kind of woman who has men flocking to her left and right.
If I wanted to have men all over me, I could get a push up bra and hike up my skirt. But that's not who I am. And that's not the kind of guy I want.0 -
i agree with this line of thinking.
i have been told by many guys that i am "sexy." but, i haven't/ hadn't slept with them when they've said it.
whatever i am doing THEY think is sexy, i might not agree with them ;-) but, it doesn't change what they are thinking of me.
i don't know that i have "sex appeal." i'm not sure what exactly sex appeal is. i have had enough guys online that have been looking for something casual...... they are pretty forthcoming about that ;-) LOL!!!!
oh, and i don't dress sexy in the least bit! i do wear a lot of form fitting clothing, but nothing low cut, nothing sleeveless, no short skirts or short shorts. my pants/ shorts/ skirt all go below my knees. however, i do have huge boobs and they are obvious, lol! and i will wear things like fishnets and heels to places like church. i will flirt and talk with anyone. i am very comfortable with myself and with my sexuality.
i think my bigger issue is that i tend to play it safe by only being the real me with people that i KNOW are safe, LOL! i don't take risks when it comes to meeting guys. in 2013, my goal will be to take some risks when it comes to meeting men in person ;-)So because I have this "sex appeal", I will have sex with a guy?? I havent had sex with the guy I'm dating and don't plan to unless we are in a committed relationship. He knows this.
And what does having sex appeal mean? The way I dress? The way I talk? That's confidence. I feel good so I carry myself a certain way.0 -
Well I don't promise sex just because I wear a short skirt. That's ridiculous.
Anywho, like Jon said, it's not that complicated. I am me. I love me. I have no problem with my beliefs or the way I dress. I love short skirts. Sue me. I attract anywhere from *kitten* to decent guys. Just because they're interested in me because they're physically attracted, doesn't make them guys just after sex.
I enjoy the differences amongst us.
And yesterday, I was at a restaurant with my sister when I kept smiling at this gorgeous man ("out of me league" type) that walked by. Well we went downstairs to the gift shop and guy followed. He made small talk about the t shirt I was looking at. He was fiiiiiiiine! Turns out he's Brazilian, 27, tall, just a beautiful man. My younger very reserved sis was even blushing giving me the okay. I declined giving him my number (pilot), and just smiled and walked on the clouds for about 5 min after.
I was wearing workout capris (yoga), sneakers, an oversized GAP sweater, no make up and pig tail braids. Why do I think he came down??
My confident smile.0 -
that's my point :-) you don't have to dress a certain way to attract attention and be considered "sexy" :-)0
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No one is wrong. Do what works for you when trying to attract the type of person that is compatible to your ideal lifestyle. There are guys who want to go with women like Diana, Anna, PJ and even you Christine. There are women for Carl, Patrick and dare I say it, Mike and DM. We have different intentions, methods and desires and it is what it is. There's more than one way to skin a cat.0
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No one is wrong. Do what works for you when trying to attract the type of person that is compatible to your ideal lifestyle. There are guys who want to go with women like Diana, Anna, PJ and even you Christine. There are women for Carl, Patrick and dare I say it, Mike and DM. We have different intentions, methods and desires and it is what it is. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Haha somewhere out there there is a weirdo man perfect for me...0 -
I totally agree Kit Kat!
Christine, I'm told I'm weird and I wear my weirdness with pride. I purposely look for oddballs. Lol0 -
I totally agree Kit Kat!
Christine, I'm told I'm weird and I wear my weirdness with pride. I purposely look for oddballs. Lol
Hahaha I do the same! No normal folks for me!0 -
everyone is weird!!! if we were all the same the world would be a very boring place :-)0
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No one is wrong. Do what works for you when trying to attract the type of person that is compatible to your ideal lifestyle. There are guys who want to go with women like Diana, Anna, PJ and even you Christine. There are women for Carl, Patrick and dare I say it, Mike and DM. We have different intentions, methods and desires and it is what it is. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Oh absolutely!! There's a lid for every pot as the old saying goes... But isn't that why this forum is so interesting sometimes? I know I learn about perspectives I wouldn't otherwise.0 -
I know there are different perspectives and it is fascinating to hear how people do things differently. It just seemed there was an influx of people saying one was wrong, ruining it for other people or the increasingly common idea "the way I do things is the correct way" mentality. Fact is, Diana attracts different people than Jen. So if someone is doing something that attracts the wrong kind of man, change your methods.0
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Wow... this was an interesting read.
Everyone has their own way of doing things and their own perspectives on dating (very obvious in this thread) and there is nothing wrong with that! What might work for me, may not work for you. I was just curious as to how guys felt about receiving "just because" gifts; especially at the beginning of a relationship.
So far all is well with the bf. He's excited about his cigars and humidor coming to him by the end of this week. And guess what? I cleaned the bathroom yesterday! The house is a work in progress, but the bathroom is clean
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Wow... this was an interesting read.
Everyone has their own way of doing things and their own perspectives on dating (very obvious in this thread) and there is nothing wrong with that! What might work for me, may not work for you. I was just curious as to how guys felt about receiving "just because" gifts; especially at the beginning of a relationship.
So far all is well with the bf. He's excited about his cigars and humidor coming to him by the end of this week. And guess what? I cleaned the bathroom yesterday! The house is a work in progress, but the bathroom is clean
Good to hear!0
