Protein intake timing

faster_than_flash

I'm sure this has been asked before: When should I be eating what.

Simply put - at what points in my day should I eat my protein, fat and carbs (assuming a workout of lifting is done at night).

Also - should I be eating the same amount of protein on the day after a workout (where no lifting will be done) as the day of a workout?

SideSteel

I'm sure this has been asked before: When should I be eating what.

Simply put - at what points in my day should I eat my protein, fat and carbs (assuming a workout of lifting is done at night).

Also - should I be eating the same amount of protein on the day after a workout (where no lifting will be done) as the day of a workout?

Assuming you are getting in adequate total protein intake for your goals, I would let personal preference and gym performance dictate your nutrient timing.

EDIT: I would not go so far as to say that it is 100% irrelevant and makes zero difference. I am just saying that the timing related effects aren't likely to be very significant (again assuming your total intake is on point) especially if you're not doing anything extreme like eating 1 meal every 2 days as far away from the training bout as possible (ie things that only come up in internet arguments).

It's "probably" good insurance to ingest some food within a couple hours on either end of the training bout but I certainly wouldn't worry about any sort of anabolic window that supplement companies and bodybuilding magazines would like you to believe.

I hope this answer makes some sense.

faster_than_flash

Yep - the pre-edit was plenty haha. Just really wanted to know - do I need to eat RIGHT after the gym, or can I just eat when I'm hungry and be sure to get enough calories in the day.

Dead on ! Thanks again

psuLemon

Yep - the pre-edit was plenty haha. Just really wanted to know - do I need to eat RIGHT after the gym, or can I just eat when I'm hungry and be sure to get enough calories in the day.

Dead on ! Thanks again

Generally, it's suggested to eat within an hour post workout. And generally 3/4 parts carbs, 1 part protein. There also have been some studies that suggest a combination of whey/casein protein can be beneficial for recovery.

faster_than_flash

Interesting. And I'm a bit confused on the "parts". If it sounds like a simple question, I'm sorry, just not too familiar with the terminology.

If I'm reading this right - out of a total of 7/4 ths parts - I have 4/7 parts protein and 3/7 parts carbs?

SideSteel

Generally, it's suggested to eat within an hour post workout. And generally 3/4 parts carbs, 1 part protein. There also have been some studies that suggest a combination of whey/casein protein can be beneficial for recovery.

Interesting. And I'm a bit confused on the "parts". If it sounds like a simple question, I'm sorry, just not too familiar with the terminology.

If I'm reading this right - out of a total of 7/4 ths parts - I have 4/7 parts protein and 3/7 parts carbs?

For both of the above I think some context needs to be applied.

If you're not having performance issues in the gym and you are able to hit your calories and macronutrients by end of day, and you're eating a mixed meal somewhere near the training bout, I'm going to claim that it doesn't matter.

If you are not eating anywhere near the training bout and/or you are having performance issues that relate to recovery (I would argue that if you're not having performance issues then you don't need to worry about glycogen replenishment because lack of glycogen would show itself in the form of terrible training energy), then looking into something in shake form might be applicable, or alternatively you could eat a mixed meal somewhere near the training bout.

Edited for a nonsensical sentence that didn't convey my thoughts accurately.

Sarauk2sf

My 2c on this

Three issues for me:

1. meal timing for protein synthesis - there is absolutely no point trying to time this and in fact protein synthesis increases up to the 24 hour mark. With all the other things happening in your body, it is a crap shoot, especially as it is also dependent on your general meal composition prior to your work out and if you think about it, most muscle repair happens when you sleep, which throws another variable into the mix re timing. In other words, there *may* be an ideal time but no-one knows what that is and it will change if you change any of the other variables. So, in short, for all intense and purposes,trying to time protein intake is usually futile.
2. eating for recovery - this is useful but it does not need to be within an hour of a workout - the 'window' for this is longer and includes the period before your workout (three hours springs to mind but I need to pull the research - will include when I find it). The 'need' for post recovery nutrition really on how glycogen depleting the workout it.
3. energy levels - that is purely based on the individual


If you do want a recovery drink - chocolate milk is an effective one.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16676705

psuLemon

Interesting. And I'm a bit confused on the "parts". If it sounds like a simple question, I'm sorry, just not too familiar with the terminology.

If I'm reading this right - out of a total of 7/4 ths parts - I have 4/7 parts protein and 3/7 parts carbs?

So 40g of carbs, 10 g of protein. I haven't seen much science based around though. Most of the science I have seen suggest what sarauk and sidesteel mention. It's more about overall protein intake as opposed to specific windows. But you can always track reps and sets and do a test. I know protein shakes post workout help reduce residual soreness for me.

jacksonpt

Can I side track this conversation a bit and ask if the recommendations change when working out fasted in the morning?

jacksonpt

Yep - the pre-edit was plenty haha. Just really wanted to know - do I need to eat RIGHT after the gym, or can I just eat when I'm hungry and be sure to get enough calories in the day.

Dead on ! Thanks again

Generally, it's suggested to eat within an hour post workout. And generally 3/4 parts carbs, 1 part protein. There also have been some studies that suggest a combination of whey/casein protein can be beneficial for recovery.

What I've heard/read says that carbs are unnecessary as long as insulin levels are raised (as they do with the use of Whey). Agree/disagree?

Sarauk2sf

Can I side track this conversation a bit and ask if the recommendations change when working out fasted in the morning?

This is conjecture here as I have not seen any studies on fasted training, at least for lifting - not saying there aren't any but none springs to mind.

From the perspective of protein synthesis,I would say the same considerations apply as noted above with the caveat that there is some consideration that needs to happen of having intake too far apart in a day. With regard to recovery, I would suggest a post workout meal is more important due to depleted glycogen - which is why a post workout recovery meal/drink is more relevant to endurance athletes.

I could well be missing something though so would love to hear other thoughts. I will see if I can glean anything more concrete as well in the mean time.

SideSteel

Regarding fasted training, I haven't seen anything definitive but I would still suggest getting in some protein somewhere near the training bout.

Alan Aragon would too, apparently:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=150792623&p=1003924733#post1003924733

(See post 4 and 6 in that thread)

Sarauk2sf

Here is some nerdy stuff on recovery drinks:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21993044

Current evidence suggests that, to maximize glycogen resynthesis, athletes should consume about 1.2 g carbohydrate per kilogram body weight as glucose and sucrose immediately after exercise and each hour thereafter for 4-6 hours postexercise. Alternatively, they may consume 0.8 g·kg(-1)·h(-1) in combination with 0.4 g·kg(-1)·h(-1) amino acids or protein. Liquids provide valuable fluids for rehydration, and an ideal recovery beverage should not only contain carbohydrate and protein but also contain electrolytes, including about 0.3-0.7 g sodium·per liter fluid to help restore sodium lost through sweat. Commercial beverages with this type of nutrient composition are effective, and recent work indicates that chocolate milk may be as effective as or superior to these in promoting recovery.

Note: this is for recovery for endurance exercise and not re resistance training or for protein synthesis purposes.

psuLemon

Yep - the pre-edit was plenty haha. Just really wanted to know - do I need to eat RIGHT after the gym, or can I just eat when I'm hungry and be sure to get enough calories in the day.

Dead on ! Thanks again

Generally, it's suggested to eat within an hour post workout. And generally 3/4 parts carbs, 1 part protein. There also have been some studies that suggest a combination of whey/casein protein can be beneficial for recovery.

What I've heard/read says that carbs are unnecessary as long as insulin levels are raised (as they do with the use of Whey). Agree/disagree?

I would disagree, you want to optimize glycogen restoration and muscle synthesis to optimize endurance/performance gains. The links below suggest a combination of CHO and PRO provide both glucose improvements as well as insulin improvements as compared to only PRO. Although, you should keep in mind this is on endurance athletes after complete depletion of glycogen. To quote: "The results suggest that postexercise muscle glycogen storage can be enhanced with a carbohydrate-protein supplement as a result of the interaction of carbohydrate and protein on insulin secretion."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1601794

And confirmed by the below: "Ingestion of the CHO-PRO beverage resulted in a 17% greater plasma glucose response, a 92% greater insulin response, and a 128% greater storage of muscle glycogen (159 +/- 18 and 69 +/- 32 micromol.g(-1) dry weight for CHO-PRO and SB, respectively) compared with the SB (p < 0.05). These findings indicate that the rate of recovery is coupled with the rate of muscle glycogen replenishment and suggest that recovery supplements should be consumed to optimize muscle glycogen synthesis as well as fluid replacement."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12580650


A good write up on chocolate milk as a recovery drink... just thought it was interesting

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21904247

SideSteel

Yep - the pre-edit was plenty haha. Just really wanted to know - do I need to eat RIGHT after the gym, or can I just eat when I'm hungry and be sure to get enough calories in the day.

Dead on ! Thanks again

Generally, it's suggested to eat within an hour post workout. And generally 3/4 parts carbs, 1 part protein. There also have been some studies that suggest a combination of whey/casein protein can be beneficial for recovery.

What I've heard/read says that carbs are unnecessary as long as insulin levels are raised (as they do with the use of Whey). Agree/disagree?

I would disagree, you want to optimize glycogen restoration and muscle synthesis to optimize endurance/performance gains. The links below suggest a combination of CHO and PRO provide both glucose improvements as well as insulin improvements as compared to only PRO. Although, you should keep in mind this is on endurance athletes after complete depletion of glycogen. To quote: "The results suggest that postexercise muscle glycogen storage can be enhanced with a carbohydrate-protein supplement as a result of the interaction of carbohydrate and protein on insulin secretion."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1601794

And confirmed by the below: "Ingestion of the CHO-PRO beverage resulted in a 17% greater plasma glucose response, a 92% greater insulin response, and a 128% greater storage of muscle glycogen (159 +/- 18 and 69 +/- 32 micromol.g(-1) dry weight for CHO-PRO and SB, respectively) compared with the SB (p < 0.05). These findings indicate that the rate of recovery is coupled with the rate of muscle glycogen replenishment and suggest that recovery supplements should be consumed to optimize muscle glycogen synthesis as well as fluid replacement."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12580650


A good write up on chocolate milk as a recovery drink... just thought it was interesting

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21904247

I'm boldfacing a part of your above because there's a key difference between an endurance athlete who has a training demand for glycogen (meaning, they need rapid replenishment because they are going to deplete again soon), and a once-per-day gym goer. In the former situation, the recovery/glycogen aspects of nutrient timing and PWO carbohydrate intake are very important. In the latter, it usually isn't.

As long as you have replenished glycogen before your next training bout that demands glycogen, then you're fine. Normal mixed-meals (without any specific timing) tend to do this adequately for most once-per-day gym goers assuming they are eating a meal or two between training bouts, which most people do.

psuLemon

I completely agree sidesteel.

ironanimal

Just bumping to follow. I usually chug a protein shake after the gym. More because I feel like death and don't want to prepare food than anything else.