Do we end up like our parents?
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I'd much rather be a shallow single person than a potentially dead, loving husband.
This sounds like something that a rational economist would say. :laugh:
I like it!
Completely rational, yeah definitely. This sort of thing happens ALL THE TIME, I find it strange that people even bother with trying to find a mate because we just keep having schizophrenic episodes and slaughtering each other.
Oh man, and kids? I don't know if you know this but school shootings happen too. We should panic and assume the worst. Keep your kids home or they will DIE FOR SURE.
Quick, everyone panic! Always expect the worst! Hide in a bunker forever! PANIC PANIC PANIC.
The problem I see is that many people on this forum tend to cling to an idealised, romanticised, unforgiving and complete version of love.According to someone on here, people like you and I must not know what love is. lol
A little bit of hope never hurts but Human love can be as dirty, disgusting and pathetic, as it can be beautiful and grand... simply because it is human in the first place.
Well said.
A lot of this comes with experience though. Someone with little experience will view things differently than some of us relationship veterans on here.
Don't act like this was EVER about medical conditions when you first posted this thread, Mr. Experienced-and-wise-veteran.
"When you begin dating a partner and you meet their parents, do you think the man or woman you're dating will end up looking like their mother or father? If so, does this effect the way you view your current partner? "
You then went on to give an example about how you thought the girls mothers was unattractive and then not soon after you ended the relationship because of course. I'm sure that had EVERYTHING to do with her potential for bipolar disorder/depression/anxiety - which, for the record, BILLIONS of people survive with and function just fine.
It's all well and good to change your tune now guys, about how you're so deep and so much more realistic than us who "idealize" relationships and love. **** gets ugly, and I'm willing to bet everyone here understands that. Just because we say judging a person by the way her mother looks is F*cking shallow doesn't mean we don't "get it".
So while you guys all pat each other on the back thinking that you've figured it all out, the rest of us watch in bewildered shock as you backpedal, change your tune and seem to legitimately believe that you're somehow better.0 -
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A word to the wise...Knock it off,I am tired of this dosey doe.
If folks can`t disagree without long drawn out winner take all battles or one ups then find a private way to do it.
Is that clear?0 -
Hey guys,
Really original since most of you ignored the question for an entire day and then jumped on the bandwagon after one person referenced what appears to be an EXTREME example! I'm also very impressed with how you all disregarded every other type of hereditary physical illness just to focus on mental issues. How very brave to stick your necks out there and answer the question!
I'm assuming both of these snide remarks were aimed at me, and clearly neither of you have facts about my past to sling them accurately... I was in a 14 year relationship with a SO who had depression issues, so don't tell me that I don't know how dirty human love can be or that I don't have enough relationship experience....
Well said.The problem I see is that many people on this forum tend to cling to an idealised, romanticised, unforgiving and complete version of love.
A little bit of hope never hurts but Human love can be as dirty, disgusting and pathetic, as it can be beautiful and grand... simply because it is human in the first place.
A lot of this comes with experience though. Someone with little experience will view things differently than some of us relationship veterans on here.
Edit: Please go back to the shallow banter. I'll have adult discussions elsewhere.0 -
Hey guys,
Really original since most of you ignored the question for an entire day and then jumped on the bandwagon after one person referenced what appears to be an EXTREME example! I'm also very impressed with how you all disregarded every other type of hereditary physical illness just to focus on mental issues. How very brave to stick your necks out there and answer the question!
I'm assuming both of these snide remarks were aimed at me, and clearly neither of you have facts about my past to sling them accurately... I was in a 14 year relationship with a SO who had depression issues, so don't tell me that I don't know how dirty human love can be or that I don't have enough relationship experience....
Well said.The problem I see is that many people on this forum tend to cling to an idealised, romanticised, unforgiving and complete version of love.
A little bit of hope never hurts but Human love can be as dirty, disgusting and pathetic, as it can be beautiful and grand... simply because it is human in the first place.
A lot of this comes with experience though. Someone with little experience will view things differently than some of us relationship veterans on here.
Edit: Please go back to the shallow banter. I'll have adult discussions elsewhere.
My point was that there are circumstances where I would walk away from a relationship because of hereditary conditions. I don't see how this means I don't know how to love. There are plenty of people who walk away from spouses because of alcoholism or a drug addiction that becomes too much to handle. Does that mean they don't love the spouse or does it mean that at some point you have to take care of yourself first?
There are a few reasons I'd walk away. First, personal risk to myself. The woman I mentioned may be an extreme case but the point is that medication doesn't always work. I knew the woman since I was 9. We lived 3 blocks away, went to the same elementary school. i played sports with her brother and her dad coached a little league team. There are also circumstances where medication for some mental illness/ disorders can't be taken. I have a family member whose wife suffers from extreme anxiety. She couldn't take the meds while she was pregnant and still isn't taking them while she is nursing. From all accounts, his life is a living hell and she is bat**** crazy and has been for the past 18 months. Second, it can be passed on to your children (at my current age this isn't really a concern because I don't plan to have children.) If she has kids already, there is a chance that you will be dealing with the issues from mental illness for the rest of your life. If we stay together, I certainly am not going to abandon her kids once they reach 18 just because I didn't contribute genetic material. Even if I don't stay together with the lady, I can't see abandoning one of hers kids once I established a bond with him/her.
Overall, if i am in, I wouldn't leave because of the what ifs. If I am just getting to know someone and it looks like it will develop beyond someone to go out have fun with, then I would seriously consider long term health implications. Whether they be hereditary or from lifestyle. I don't view it any differently than I view looking at how they spend money or treat a server. It's part of the fundamental question: Will my life be better off with this person playing a significant role?0 -
It's all well and good to change your tune now guys, about how you're so deep and so much more realistic than us who "idealize" relationships and love. **** gets ugly, and I'm willing to bet everyone here understands that. Just because we say judging a person by the way her mother looks is F*cking shallow doesn't mean we don't "get it".
So while you guys all pat each other on the back thinking that you've figured it all out, the rest of us watch in bewildered shock as you backpedal, change your tune and seem to legitimately believe that you're somehow better.
I have at no point said anything other than:
- We judge our potential partners (whether you want it or not). We judge them on a variety of factors, visible actions, subconscious "vibes", physical aspects, their responses to our stimuli (physical, emotional), their interests, our past experiences, etc.
Nobody is even denying that. "Judging" or "evaluating" is at the basis of determining whether a partner is suitable for you or not. If you weren't "judging" or "evaluating", you wouldn't basically be choosing a partner.
- We all want to find the "optimal" long term relationship partner for us at a given time. It is easy to find and meet "sub-optimal" partners, but we all want the best.
I'm sure nobody is denying that either. We don't always find the best, and perfect doesn't exist, so we will have to use our own "deal breakers" and "preferences" here.
- Judging a person by the way her mother (parents) looks AND (I go further) behaves seems logical to me. Even desirable in the quest for our "optimal" partners.
Actually, I think this is a factor that can be of such importance and so influential in the life of someone (more than perhaps any other, or at least many other) that ignoring it would be dangerous and even a bit counter productive (in the quest for your optimal partner).
My conclusion is you are gimping yourself by ignoring one of the most important ways to evaluate your partner if you chose not to look at the persons' parents (and yes, I mean physical, attitude, etc.).
What would be "shallow" (and now we can agree) would be to limit your judgment to the parents of the partner and making your decision solely on that basis. Using the partner's parents as a factor to judge is fine.
However, exceptions are not the rule, and rules should make room for the few exceptions. But then, as the article said: "explain how you are different from your parents" if there is any issue here.
Pa_jorg: No, my comment wasn't snide at all actually.
I was merely stating that many people on this forum actually tend to be very vocal about uncompromising and absolute versions of love, something we probably all desire.
In the real world, when we are not simply typing "thoughts" but our @ss is actually on the line, I have seen people mentioning "red flags" which are far more insignificant than "the parents" (people have often reported minor red flags on here).
I guess it depends on your deal breakers, but if you accept that someone can want "big boobs" or "blond hair" or "intelligent" or "funny" or "blue eyes" or "tall" or "educated", then you have to accept that someone can want "stable parents" as part of the deal.
We are all fighting the same fight here, with different methodologies, of trying to find an optimal partner.
So, no, I don't accept to be told I'm "shallow".0 -
Overall, if i am in, I wouldn't leave because of the what ifs. If I am just getting to know someone and it looks like it will develop beyond someone to go out have fun with, then I would seriously consider long term health implications. Whether they be hereditary or from lifestyle. I don't view it any differently than I view looking at how they spend money or treat a server. It's part of the fundamental question: Will my life be better off with this person playing a significant role?
I agree with this. Health is absolutely something to consider. As someone with anxiety it is something that I take very seriously.
For the record, the issue I took was the singling out of one statement, it being blown out of proportion, and the smarmy bits.0 -
This thread is gold!0
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Hey thanks for letting me know I am unloveable since my mother has cancer. It doesn't mater that I don't smoke, watching my weight, and have an active lifestyle all things that combat pancreatic cancer. No go ahead and look at my mother and judge me.0
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This thread took a very interesting turn.
I will confess something I don't love about myself. Mental illness, in pretty much every form, scares me to no small amount.
I am highly (over) sensitive to other people's emotions..and tend to feed off them to some extent. I am pretty terrified of being pulled down into that spiral of other people's depression /other challenges. I don't have it or understand it, at all.
And yet..the funny thing is.. I can be attracted to people that deal with this. I haven't yet figured out whether I want to save them, identify a little with them, or just see the potential too greatly. Inevitably, I push for more emotional connection and vulnerability than they are ever comfortable to give..and am blunt about my own issues, which tends to not allow them to forget their own.
Perhaps if I was already in love with someone and the issue developed it would be different. But currently, as I am single.. I absolutely maintain the right to decide on whether or not I enter a relationship where I would have to deal with this. I have always joked with friends that I needed to be the most "messed up one" in my relationship (not trying to be derogatory here at all)..and that is still probably true.
Sure.. love is important.. but equally so is emotional/mental self-preservation, knowing your limits and loving yourself first and foremost.0 -
rantragesnip
I have at no point said anything other than:
snip
We are all fighting the same fight here, with different methodologies, of trying to find an optimal partner.
So, no, I don't accept to be told I'm "shallow".
Not much a surprise, but I wasn't really directing that whole tirade to you. Rather, the bandwagoners that thought to hop aboard your message for whatever reason.
I don't have a problem with deal breakers. I get it, I have my own. But breaking up with someone and judging them entirely based on their parentage is shallow, limited and silly. I'm certainly not saying that people should completely disregard family - but judge a person based on how her mom looks is different than worrying about health issues or not wanting to be around dysfunctional family members.
So yeah, we agree.0 -
With that slight modification we agree completely.I'm certainly not saying that people should completely disregard family - but for me to judge a person based on how her mom looks is different (for me) than worrying about health issues or not wanting to be around dysfunctional family members (for me).
Give to other people the possibility of choosing THEIR own deal breakers.
Look isn't one for you? Good.
Look is a deal breaker for this person over here? Good for him.
To add: not all deal breakers are born equal and will lead to the same number of relationships, admittedly.0 -
With that slight modification we agree completely.I'm certainly not saying that people should completely disregard family - but for me to judge a person based on how her mom looks is different (for me) than worrying about health issues or not wanting to be around dysfunctional family members (for me).
Give to other people the possibility of choosing THEIR own deal breakers.
Look isn't one for you? Good.
Look is a deal breaker for this person over here? Good for him.
SO CLOSE.
People can choose their own deal breakers. Some deal breakers are more shallow than others. Large amounts of primarily shallow deal breakers = shallow person. While I agree that anyone has the right to choose what they desire in another person, we all should understand that it also helps define who we are as a person. Them's the breaks.0 -
There is a big difference in breaking things off because of the way someone's parents look (how the thread started) vs. health issues.
Even so, I'm a bit shocked by some of the comments made on the health side as well.
Just because someone's parent or grandparent had cancer is not a reason to dismiss them. That person may never have cancer in their life and you could be missing out on a great person.
The same with other health issues....my father has heart disease and is bipolar. My 4 brothers and I are tested regularly for both, yet none of us have ever been diagnosed.
But, again. I suppose to each their own.0 -
Where did anyone say they wouldn't date someone with a history of cancer?0
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There is a big difference in breaking things off because of the way someone's parents look (how the thread started) vs. health issues.
Even so, I'm a bit shocked by some of the comments made on the health side as well.
Just because someone's parent or grandparent had cancer is not a reason to dismiss them. That person may never have cancer in their life and you could be missing out on a great person.
The same with other health issues....my father has heart disease and is bipolar. My 4 brothers and I are tested regularly for both, yet none of us have ever been diagnosed.
But, again. I suppose to each their own.
I must have missed the post that said that people should be dismissed because of issues like cancer. I remember someone saying it's something to be aware of and to consider, but not more than that?
I think the same is true for people who have family history of mental illness, the only one I saw is a couple people agreed that they don't have the desire or strength to be with someone that does have bipolar disorder (and similar). But that's unfair to expect everyone to be able to do that, isn't it?0 -
There is a big difference in breaking things off because of the way someone's parents look (how the thread started) vs. health issues.
Even so, I'm a bit shocked by some of the comments made on the health side as well.
Just because someone's parent or grandparent had cancer is not a reason to dismiss them. That person may never have cancer in their life and you could be missing out on a great person.
The same with other health issues....my father has heart disease and is bipolar. My 4 brothers and I are tested regularly for both, yet none of us have ever been diagnosed.
But, again. I suppose to each their own.
I must have missed the post that said that people should be dismissed because of issues like cancer. I remember someone saying it's something to be aware of and to consider, but not more than that?
I think the same is true for people who have family history of mental illness, the only one I saw is a couple people agreed that they don't have the desire or strength to be with someone that does have bipolar disorder (and similar). But that's unfair to expect everyone to be able to do that, isn't it?
Mental and physical health issues can be herditary. So saying you won't get involved with someone because their mother/father has a mental health issue because it would be too hard that to cope with hasn't dealt with people that have physical health issues. Both are long term issues that might or might not show up in someone just because they are related.0 -
There is a big difference in breaking things off because of the way someone's parents look (how the thread started) vs. health issues.
Even so, I'm a bit shocked by some of the comments made on the health side as well.
Just because someone's parent or grandparent had cancer is not a reason to dismiss them. That person may never have cancer in their life and you could be missing out on a great person.
The same with other health issues....my father has heart disease and is bipolar. My 4 brothers and I are tested regularly for both, yet none of us have ever been diagnosed.
But, again. I suppose to each their own.
I must have missed the post that said that people should be dismissed because of issues like cancer. I remember someone saying it's something to be aware of and to consider, but not more than that?
I think the same is true for people who have family history of mental illness, the only one I saw is a couple people agreed that they don't have the desire or strength to be with someone that does have bipolar disorder (and similar). But that's unfair to expect everyone to be able to do that, isn't it?
Mental and physical health issues can be herditary. So saying you won't get involved with someone because their mother/father has a mental health issue because it would be too hard that to cope with hasn't dealt with people that have physical health issues. Both are long term issues that might or might not show up in someone just because they are related.
To be fair though mental issues are more potentially dangerous the physical health issues...... Pscizophrenics in a psychotic break are much more likely to do there SO harm then say someone with a family history of HTN (hypertension)....
Personally after dealing with 1 chronically depressive BF I don't ever have the urge to do it again0 -
Just forget it, I'm pissed off today.0
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There is a big difference in breaking things off because of the way someone's parents look (how the thread started) vs. health issues.
Even so, I'm a bit shocked by some of the comments made on the health side as well.
Just because someone's parent or grandparent had cancer is not a reason to dismiss them. That person may never have cancer in their life and you could be missing out on a great person.
The same with other health issues....my father has heart disease and is bipolar. My 4 brothers and I are tested regularly for both, yet none of us have ever been diagnosed.
But, again. I suppose to each their own.
I must have missed the post that said that people should be dismissed because of issues like cancer. I remember someone saying it's something to be aware of and to consider, but not more than that?
I think the same is true for people who have family history of mental illness, the only one I saw is a couple people agreed that they don't have the desire or strength to be with someone that does have bipolar disorder (and similar). But that's unfair to expect everyone to be able to do that, isn't it?
Mental and physical health issues can be herditary. So saying you won't get involved with someone because their mother/father has a mental health issue because it would be too hard that to cope with hasn't dealt with people that have physical health issues. Both are long term issues that might or might not show up in someone just because they are related.
I didn't say that. I would date someone if they didn't have mental health issues even if their parents did, and I would also not eliminate someone if they had been diagnosed but had it managed and were receiving treatment. As I've said before I have anxiety and manage it - but if someone couldn't handle it when I have a panic attack because someone parked their shopping cart in the middle of the aisle at the grocery store, I wouldn't exactly be upset about that. Just means they need someone more even tempered to complement their own life preferences.0 -
Ruth, I was the one who originally posed the question for the same reason, but noted that no one really answered the physical issue...all the guys, however, jumped on the mental health side because it was easier to answer that someone was 'crazy' and might be wielding a knife...Mental and physical health issues can be herditary. So saying you won't get involved with someone because their mother/father has a mental health issue because it would be too hard that to cope with hasn't dealt with people that have physical health issues. Both are long term issues that might or might not show up in someone just because they are related.
Flim, I quite agree with you that many people use lesser red flags than the parents. And often I roll my eyes and think those are shallow too because I have been through enough to know the difference.In the real world, when we are not simply typing "thoughts" but our @ss is actually on the line, I have seen people mentioning "red flags" which are far more insignificant than "the parents" (people have often reported minor red flags on here).
This is a fair and reasonable statement.Overall, if i am in, I wouldn't leave because of the what ifs. If I am just getting to know someone and it looks like it will develop beyond someone to go out have fun with, then I would seriously consider long term health implications. Whether they be hereditary or from lifestyle.
But, my follow up question to it is: How far in would you most likely be before you learned some of the history? Or, if you had anything concerning in your family history, when would you feel it appropriate to mention?0 -
The beauty of it all is we each get to choose for ourselves. I dont care if anyone thinks I am a champion of the people or a shallow monster, still my choice.0
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Can I add to this that as a person who has been passed by due at least in part because of parent health issues (yeah,I know
) I can`t honestly blame any lady for that.
It is something to consider if a person is going to be committed to the everyday care of a person and I don`t see that as shallow at all.0 -
This is a fair and reasonable statement.Overall, if i am in, I wouldn't leave because of the what ifs. If I am just getting to know someone and it looks like it will develop beyond someone to go out have fun with, then I would seriously consider long term health implications. Whether they be hereditary or from lifestyle.
But, my follow up question to it is: How far in would you most likely be before you learned some of the history? Or, if you had anything concerning in your family history, when would you feel it appropriate to mention?
I think it depends on the relationship. There are phases in a relationship between the time of being a monogamous couple to thinking about getting married to actually proposing and eventually getting married. I would suspect conversations about long term implications to come about before proposing.0 -
I always heard that a guy will look more like his mother, and a girl looks more like her father. I don't think tihat's true though. It's completely random imo.0
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I always heard that a guy will look more like his mother, and a girl looks more like her father. I don't think tihat's true though. It's completely random imo.
It is completely random. Based on genes and which/how many manifest from each parent. My sister looks more like my mother, and I look more like my father... but I also have very Spanish traits which comes from my mothers side of the family... so I look like a Spanish version of my father. My sister and I both have my dads eyes.0
