Assessment please

Gapwedge01

I may not have your questions in order but here is my data:

Male
Age 60
Weight 232
Estimated BF% 25.5% (Omron Handheld)* *
** Since I am apple shaped and 90% of my BF is from the waist up I am guessing this would be in the ballpark at least identifying a trend.
Height 71 3/4"

Before officially beginning MFP I hit a peak weight of 268 in the spring of 2012. I began MFP on 7/1/12 with a weight of 260. I began like most starting MFP with a 2 pound per week loss goal and MFP had me starting out on 1440 calories. Between 7/1/12 and 10/24/12 I lost 29-30 pounds. I altered my calories from 1440 to 1660 to 1800 during that time so I did not stay at 1440. From 10/24/12 through 1/24/13 I did not gain a pound nor lose a pound. Stayed at 232.
I found the Scooby website and did the following calculations using the Katch-McArdle formula using 25.5%BF:
BMR 2067
TDEE 2481 Sedentary
TDEE 2843 Lightly Active

From 11/27/12 I upped my calories to 2200 and stayed there for a week. No weight gain nor loss. I upped it again 2 weeks later to 2400. Same results. Over the past 1 1/2 to 2 weeks I have increased my calories to 2700. For awhile no change. Then over the weekend and weighing on Monday 1/28 I weighed 238- up 6 pounds. Obviously, that is not a true weight gain from fat/muscle (BF% did not go up). I have since lost back to 237 on 1/29/13.
My activity level from early December through today has been mostly lifting 3-4 days a week and 1 day of power walking at 4.2 mph for 8-10 miles. The rest has been basically sedentary.
I am a cyclist so when the weather is permitting I am out riding and can burn up to and over 2000 calories a ride. But from December through today those rides have been restricted due to weather conditions.
I chose an activity level of 1.35 or an in-between Sedentary and Lightly active activity factor. Knowing this I will eat back the cycling burn (I don't use the gross calorie burn I use a net burn by backing out what I would have burned if I had not cycled.)

So, my question is do I really need to stay at TDEE maintenance for more than a week or can I begin to cut 15% again. I was never on a VLCD per se though I did eat below my BMR for 4 months. I cannot see myself at TDEE for 8-12 weeks as has been recommended. But the plateau is driving me insane. My goal weight is 200 so I still have 30 pounds to go. I will make this side bar remark that since I began lifting in early December I am seeing a body composition change and from early December through mid January my BF% has decreased about 1%.

My Macros are Carbs/Fat/Protein 40/30/30.

I would appreciate any feedback. My diary is open. Thanks.

SideSteel

I have some input on this. I'll get back to you later today.

lacurandera1

I hope I didn't just miss this information, but I didn't see it in your OP. What are you using to estimate calorie burns? Just MFP's estimates, or do you have a HRM?

Gapwedge01

I hope I didn't just miss this information, but I didn't see it in your OP. What are you using to estimate calorie burns? Just MFP's estimates, or do you have a HRM?

While cycling I use a Garmin 500 which has one of the best HRM methods. While lifting I typically don't count them since I consider that part of my lightly active factor in the TDEE. For my power walks I use a Polar FT7. My VO2max is in the upper 40s lower 50s, but the FT7 does not have that function so I am guessing if anything my HRM during my power walk is underestimating since Polar uses a standard 30% VO2Max.

lacurandera1

Ok, my next line of questioning regarding HRMs is invalid. : ) You'll get a better answer from SS, but I can attest to what eating at TDEE and taking a serious activity break for even as little as a week can do.

I'm only a couple pounds from goal, so I'm really not losing at any noticeable rate. But two weeks ago I ran 5 miles and had some severe shin splint-y pain. So I didn't run anymore that week or the next week. Took a break from some of the classes I take and only lifted twice over a two week period. Stuck with low impact lazy stuff like pilates. I am VISIBLY leaner after about 1.5 weeks of eating TDEE and being slightly active but not crazy active like I normally am. I don't have any fancy body fat measurers but this change in the mirror is obvious.

That said, i think as little as a week or two of a "diet break" can make a difference. it did for me, at any rate, as I hadn't seen or recorded any changes in months. I don't know which had more of an effect for me, though- the activity decline or the calorie increase, since I did both at the same time.

Sarauk2sf

Ok, my next line of questioning regarding HRMs is invalid. : ) You'll get a better answer from SS, but I can attest to what eating at TDEE and taking a serious activity break for even as little as a week can do.

I'm only a couple pounds from goal, so I'm really not losing at any noticeable rate. But two weeks ago I ran 5 miles and had some severe shin splint-y pain. So I didn't run anymore that week or the next week. Took a break from some of the classes I take and only lifted twice over a two week period. Stuck with low impact lazy stuff like pilates. I am VISIBLY leaner after about 1.5 weeks of eating TDEE and being slightly active but not crazy active like I normally am. I don't have any fancy body fat measurers but this change in the mirror is obvious.

That said, i think as little as a week or two of a "diet break" can make a difference. it did for me, at any rate, as I hadn't seen or recorded any changes in months. I don't know which had more of an effect for me, though- the activity decline or the calorie increase, since I did both at the same time.

Diet breaks need to be taken in context and if one is a good idea, 2 weeks is usually sufficient.

Gapwedge01

I have some input on this. I'll get back to you later today.

Thanks. Btw, I double checked and I had my diary open to friends only. It is now open for you to view if needed.

SideSteel

I'd like to see your intake at the following for the next 4 weeks. PM me if you have any issues with this in terms of performance/mood/etc.

2000kcal
170p
80f
150c

You would not eat back exercise calories on this intake.
Please note my thread on intake accuracy which you already replied to so I'm assuming you've read it and will apply some of the conjecture in that thread to your own tracking, just for the next few weeks so you can make doubly sure your recording is accurate.

Also please note: As you begin cycling again and your activity increases, my expectation would be that you might increase intake to accommodate, but lets see where this leads you in the course of the next 4 weeks.

Let me know if you have questions.

Gapwedge01

I'd like to see your intake at the following for the next 4 weeks. PM me if you have any issues with this in terms of performance/mood/etc.

2000kcal
170p
80f
150c

You would not eat back exercise calories on this intake.
Please note my thread on intake accuracy which you already replied to so I'm assuming you've read it and will apply some of the conjecture in that thread to your own tracking, just for the next few weeks so you can make doubly sure your recording is accurate.

Also please note: As you begin cycling again and your activity increases, my expectation would be that you might increase intake to accommodate, but lets see where this leads you in the course of the next 4 weeks.

Let me know if you have questions.

SS,
Even if that level puts me below my BMR? When I power walk for 8-10 miles @ 4.1 to 4.2 mph avg with elevation gains of 300-400 feet I burn around 1800 calories. So, on that particular workout I would assume you want me to treat that like my cycling activity? Other than my power walk and cycling I will not eat back my calories.
I guess I need to ask for clarification for myself why would you have me back eating below BMR? I thought the reason I plateaued was I was not eating enough. I am wondering if you are thinking I have been close enough long enough at TDEE maintenance that I am ready for a cut? If that is the case I tend to agree.
One thing I will do is monitor my calorie input better. I am getting a digital food scale after reading one of the posts here. I can already promise you I am underestimating my peanut butter calories. I will monitor my strength levels and endurance during this 4 week cut phase and keep you posted.
I am new to the group and I really like how this is structured. I also have to give a shout out to Heybales as he has been very helpful as well. Thanks again. ---Gary

SideSteel

I'd like to see your intake at the following for the next 4 weeks. PM me if you have any issues with this in terms of performance/mood/etc.

2000kcal
170p
80f
150c

You would not eat back exercise calories on this intake.
Please note my thread on intake accuracy which you already replied to so I'm assuming you've read it and will apply some of the conjecture in that thread to your own tracking, just for the next few weeks so you can make doubly sure your recording is accurate.

Also please note: As you begin cycling again and your activity increases, my expectation would be that you might increase intake to accommodate, but lets see where this leads you in the course of the next 4 weeks.

Let me know if you have questions.

SS,
Even if that level puts me below my BMR?

Yes.

When I power walk for 8-10 miles @ 4.1 to 4.2 mph avg with elevation gains of 300-400 feet I burn around 1800 calories. So, on that particular workout I would assume you want me to treat that like my cycling activity? Other than my power walk and cycling I will not eat back my calories.

Your choice. My recommendation is to average the above based on the information you've provided.

I guess I need to ask for clarification for myself why would you have me back eating below BMR?

All of this is estimation. You started gaining around the 2700 mark. Given your age and your stats I don't think it's outside of the realm of normal for your TDEE to be anywhere in the 2500-3000 range. Given your size I do not take issue with you eating at a slightly more aggressive cut at -25% TDEE which puts you around the 2k mark.


(Keep in mind, I'm factoring in that you are sedentary outside of your 3-4 exercise days per week and 1 walking day. If you were cycling regularly I would suggest a higher caloric intake).

I thought the reason I plateaued was I was not eating enough. I am wondering if you are thinking I have been close enough long enough at TDEE maintenance that I am ready for a cut? If that is the case I tend to agree.

Basically between November and now you've been increasing your intake from 2200 to 2700 and you finally saw weight gain from it. I consider this to be a long enough period of time to warrant eating at a deficit again.

In closing, my expectations are as follows:

If you eat at the above intake level and track carefully and consistently I expect weight loss at a reasonable pace. I expect you to monitor how you feel and PM me if you are having difficulties with energy levels or you have hunger outside of normal dieting. (A little hunger is ok. Feeling like you want to kill someone over a cheeseburger is not).

My suggestion is to just do this as I've listed and keep me informed. You can certainly add in exercise calories if you want, but I don't recommend it for now.

Gapwedge01

I'd like to see your intake at the following for the next 4 weeks. PM me if you have any issues with this in terms of performance/mood/etc.

2000kcal
170p
80f
150c

You would not eat back exercise calories on this intake.
Please note my thread on intake accuracy which you already replied to so I'm assuming you've read it and will apply some of the conjecture in that thread to your own tracking, just for the next few weeks so you can make doubly sure your recording is accurate.

Also please note: As you begin cycling again and your activity increases, my expectation would be that you might increase intake to accommodate, but lets see where this leads you in the course of the next 4 weeks.

Let me know if you have questions.

SS,
Even if that level puts me below my BMR?

Yes.

When I power walk for 8-10 miles @ 4.1 to 4.2 mph avg with elevation gains of 300-400 feet I burn around 1800 calories. So, on that particular workout I would assume you want me to treat that like my cycling activity? Other than my power walk and cycling I will not eat back my calories.

Your choice. My recommendation is to average the above based on the information you've provided.

I guess I need to ask for clarification for myself why would you have me back eating below BMR?

All of this is estimation. You started gaining around the 2700 mark. Given your age and your stats I don't think it's outside of the realm of normal for your TDEE to be anywhere in the 2500-3000 range. Given your size I do not take issue with you eating at a slightly more aggressive cut at -25% TDEE which puts you around the 2k mark.

I thought the reason I plateaued was I was not eating enough. I am wondering if you are thinking I have been close enough long enough at TDEE maintenance that I am ready for a cut? If that is the case I tend to agree.

Basically between November and now you've been increasing your intake from 2200 to 2700 and you finally saw weight gain from it. I consider this to be a long enough period of time to warrant eating at a deficit again.

In closing, my expectations are as follows:

If you eat at the above intake level and track carefully and consistently I expect weight loss at a reasonable pace. I expect you to monitor how you feel and PM me if you are having difficulties with energy levels or you have hunger outside of normal dieting. (A little hunger is ok. Feeling like you want to kill someone over a cheeseburger is not).

My suggestion is to just do this as I've listed and keep me informed. You can certainly add in exercise calories if you want, but I don't recommend it for now.

Thanks. I will report back here or by PM in a couple of weeks and then at the end of the 4 weeks. Much appreciated. This group was sorely needed on MFP.

Gapwedge01

An update for SS---

The 6 pounds I gained during my reset are gone. I am back to 232 and still have 2 more days to complete the first week of my cut. 2000 was too low for me so I have been at 2200 this week. No cardio this week and only 2 lift sessions. My food logging has been better as well. Week 2 starts Monday.

Sarauk2sf

An update for SS---

The 6 pounds I gained during my reset are gone. I am back to 232 and still have 2 more days to complete the first week of my cut. 2000 was too low for me so I have been at 2200 this week. No cardio this week and only 2 lift sessions. My food logging has been better as well. Week 2 starts Monday.

Great update - good luck with next week.