Fitness: Cardio vs. Lifting

VelociMama

It seems most of the people I know here who are serious about lifting don't do any cardio (anything beyond low-impact workouts like walking or occasionally light jogging). There also seems to be a very anti-cardio mentality among some of these folks, and my question is why? Specifically, is it detrimental to do serious cardio training (intervals, HIIT, circuit training, etc.) when trying to preserve lean mass or increase strength? Obviously, people have preferences, but I'm asking more from a physiological standpoint than just a preference standpoint.

My point in asking is that I'm considering a more hybrid approach to my fitness program post-partum. What I did before was basically low-impact cardio (walking or leisurely cycling) combined with a modified Stronglifts program. I had a lot of success with this (lost over 30 lbs doing this combined with high protein diet and 250 calorie per day deficit - 1/2 lb per week average).

This time, however, I'm interested in getting not only stronger but also improving my overall fitness which includes cardiovascular fitness and flexibility/mobility work. I was doing Stronglifts 3x per week, and I'm thinking this time I'm going to add a day of cardio training and replace one of the Stronglifts workouts days with cardio training, so I'd be doing a 2/2 split during the week of weight training/cardio.

I'd love to get some feedback here if anyone has comments about this.

I'm 5'8" and will be starting at around 180 (assuming I end up close to my pre-baby weight post-delivery, which is very possible). My ultimate goal is to get down another approximately 35-40 lbs and take my body fat percentage down to <20% eventually.

Thanks in advance!

Sarauk2sf

I cannot speak for everyone obviously, but I only have two real anti-cardio isssues:

1) I personally hate it (but that is just whether I decide to do it, not anyone else) and can maintain a deficit without it
2) significant amounts of cardio can be counter productive

Other than that, I say go for it, as long as you are not creating very large deficits because of it.

One thing I would be careful of - while I *think* 2 days a week full body workout out is adequate for LBM maintenance, I would recommend 3 x a week as a 'safety net' so to speak. This way, if you had a bad workout or missed one, you still have the 2 days. Think of the 3rd day as insurance.

Could you not have 3 days of lifting and 2 days of cardio or would that be too busy of a schedule?

VelociMama

One thing I would be careful of - while I *think* 2 days a week full body workout out is adequate for LBM maintenance, I would recommend 3 x a week as a 'safety net' so to speak. This way, if you had a bad workout or missed one, you still have the 2 days. Think of the 3rd day as insurance.

Could you not have 3 days of lifting and 2 days of cardio or would that be too busy of a schedule?

This is a good point.

I am just thinking 5x per week schedule might be too much with a newborn to care for.

I'm trying to stick to something I can do for 45-60 mins 4x per week max.

DontStopB_Leakin

I cannot speak for everyone obviously, but I only have two real anti-cardio isssues:

1) I personally hate it (but that is just whether I decide to do it, not anyone else) and can maintain a deficit without it
2) significant amounts of cardio can be counter productive

Other than that, I say go for it, as long as you are not creating very large deficits because of it.

One thing I would be careful of - while I *think* 2 days a week full body workout out is adequate for LBM maintenance, I would recommend 3 x a week as a 'safety net' so to speak. This way, if you had a bad workout or missed one, you still have the 2 days. Think of the 3rd day as insurance.

Could you not have 3 days of lifting and 2 days of cardio or would that be too busy of a schedule?

This is what I do. I do SLs 3 days a week (M,W,F), and *try* to get in a run at least two days of the week (about 30 minutes), normally on Sunday and Thursday. If my schedule doesn't allow for it, I'll cut a run day.

From what I've gathered (I'm absolutely no expert), as long as you don't do excessive cardio, like Sara stated, it shouldn't impact your lifting at all. I've been doing cardio the entire time I've been lifting, and I'm seeing amazing progress, and pretty good strength gains.

I, like you, wish to improve my overall fitness. I lift because I wish to be strong, and it gets me the results I desire. However, I *do* enjoy cardio, and I wish to continue to improve my stamina.

As long as you don't overdo it on the cardio, it shouldn't have a negative impact on your LBM or strength.

mmapags

FWIW, currently I do 2 days of compound heavy lifts and one day of HIIT and metabolic weight training complexes. I'm am able to maintain and progress very slighty this way. The complexes get whole body. I bike ride in the warm weather. So, kind of a hybrid approach.

I generally dislike Steady State Cardio. I get bored!

VelociMama

Great feedback already. Thanks!

I generally dislike Steady State Cardio. I get bored!

I'm in the same boat with this. Being on a treadmill or elliptical for hours would drive me nuts.

I'm actually thinking of doing heavy bag boxing training for my cardio. There are a lot of beginner programs out there, and I think it would be kinda fun. I may combine that with some jogging or bike work though. I've not really decided on specifics yet.

DopeItUp

As I mentioned to you earlier, I just use an elliptical for my cardio on my off days (30 mins, average HR ~160). I found when I did HIIT 2 days a week and lifted 3 days a week that it was impacting my lifting in a negative manner. In a deficit, that's a lot of work/stress/impact. It's probably a lot more doable at maintenance or in a surplus. I think your plan is fine, just realize that overdoing it on one will probably impact the other, especially while trying to lose weight. Just doing this has put my resting heart rate in the very low 50s and my BP at 116/66 so I feel like I am getting some pretty good cardio benefits along with my lifting gains.

missym357

I'm curious about other people's opinions on this as well! I have always preferred cardio to weight lifting, but I do both. Doing both can be a real balancing act depending on what you are doing. I pay for it either way, but it is worth it to me. By pay for it, I mean, for a long time I had to give my cardio endeavors the top priority- weights came second. I was more likely to get hurt if my muscles were exhausted and depleted from lifting. My incline hike- which I was working on my speed- (up a mountain, 2000ft elevation gain in .9 mile, 4 miles back down) set the schedule for the rest of the week because it was so exhausting- no leg days 24-48 hours before and after. Depending on how much/what intensity of cardio I do, I will not see the sort of strength gains I would expect to see with my lifting. I have changed things up and put lifting first and brought my cardio down a few notches during the winter. This has been a nice change and I have enjoyed lifting more because of it. As soon as it warms up and summer comes (kids home), I will have to change things up again because my time will be limited and I will be out there enjoying things as much as I can (running, biking, hiking, dancing)! If cardio for me meant the treadmill/elliptical, I would have none of it.

I guess my point is, I do what I love and make it work. I lift to retain lbm, not because I actually love doing it. My best advice is to try things out, see how it goes and how you feel and continually reevaluate.

danasings

Great feedback already. Thanks!

I generally dislike Steady State Cardio. I get bored!

I'm in the same boat with this. Being on a treadmill or elliptical for hours would drive me nuts.

I'm actually thinking of doing heavy bag boxing training for my cardio. There are a lot of beginner programs out there, and I think it would be kinda fun. I may combine that with some jogging or bike work though. I've not really decided on specifics yet.

I find boxing to be one of the most addictive forms of cardio out there.

I do a lot of cardio...and I think it has impeded my strength gains. I am taking a break from lifting right now, but when I start up again I will be cutting back on cardio.

mmapags

Great feedback already. Thanks!

I generally dislike Steady State Cardio. I get bored!

I'm in the same boat with this. Being on a treadmill or elliptical for hours would drive me nuts.

I'm actually thinking of doing heavy bag boxing training for my cardio. There are a lot of beginner programs out there, and I think it would be kinda fun. I may combine that with some jogging or bike work though. I've not really decided on specifics yet.

That's why I do the HIIT and metabolic weight complexes. They are more interesting and give me a great cardio workout.

VelociMama

As I mentioned to you earlier, I just use an elliptical for my cardio on my off days (30 mins, average HR ~160). I found when I did HIIT 2 days a week and lifted 3 days a week that it was impacting my lifting in a negative manner. In a deficit, that's a lot of work/stress/impact. It's probably a lot more doable at maintenance or in a surplus. I think your plan is fine, just realize that overdoing it on one will probably impact the other, especially while trying to lose weight. Just doing this has put my resting heart rate in the very low 50s and my BP at 116/66 so I feel like I am getting some pretty good cardio benefits along with my lifting gains.

That is fantastic.

How big is your deficit (or was when you were doing the HIIT)?

I'm wondering if I should do the 1/2 lb per week deficit again or be a little more ambitious and go for closer 1 lb deficit this time also.

tameko2

I do not HATE cardio, but I also don't really enjoy it, AND I'm unwilling to give it any of my precious exercise time most days.

I usually use the strategy of "I will lift, and then if I feel like it I will do some random cardio" except this past month my husband has started lifting with me again, which is important to me and I want him to do it so I will not complain about it, but lets just say I prefer to lift alone and also he is a very impatient person who HATES waiting and also feels social embarrassment for many things like, if he is just standing in the gym waiting for me, strangers might judge him for not doing cardio, and that would be really awful for reasons I can not articulate.

So anyway. That hasn't been happening. He wants to be a better runner though so he's been dragging me out for 20-30 minute jogs.

TL;DR - I care about making lifting progress a lot, and I do not particularly care about improving in any cardio-heavy endeavors, so when I have to prioritize my exercise time, I don't do cardio. And also my husband is kind of a girl.

DopeItUp

As I mentioned to you earlier, I just use an elliptical for my cardio on my off days (30 mins, average HR ~160). I found when I did HIIT 2 days a week and lifted 3 days a week that it was impacting my lifting in a negative manner. In a deficit, that's a lot of work/stress/impact. It's probably a lot more doable at maintenance or in a surplus. I think your plan is fine, just realize that overdoing it on one will probably impact the other, especially while trying to lose weight. Just doing this has put my resting heart rate in the very low 50s and my BP at 116/66 so I feel like I am getting some pretty good cardio benefits along with my lifting gains.

That is fantastic.

How big is your deficit (or was when you were doing the HIIT)?

I'm wondering if I should do the 1/2 lb per week deficit again or be a little more ambitious and go for closer 1 lb deficit this time also.

Right around 500 a day. Having a smaller deficit and not drinking beer every day would probably help too. So your mileage may vary.

Sarauk2sf

As I mentioned to you earlier, I just use an elliptical for my cardio on my off days (30 mins, average HR ~160). I found when I did HIIT 2 days a week and lifted 3 days a week that it was impacting my lifting in a negative manner. In a deficit, that's a lot of work/stress/impact. It's probably a lot more doable at maintenance or in a surplus. I think your plan is fine, just realize that overdoing it on one will probably impact the other, especially while trying to lose weight. Just doing this has put my resting heart rate in the very low 50s and my BP at 116/66 so I feel like I am getting some pretty good cardio benefits along with my lifting gains.

That is fantastic.

How big is your deficit (or was when you were doing the HIIT)?

I'm wondering if I should do the 1/2 lb per week deficit again or be a little more ambitious and go for closer 1 lb deficit this time also.

Slightly off topic to your original question, but I do not see any reason why you should not start at a 1lb a week deficit if you want and then cut down to 1/2lb the nearer you get to goal.

vjohn04

I do around 3 hours of cardio per week, personally. :-) My lifting comes out to 2.5 hours per week.

I try to box for two hours and take an hour run on the weekend.

I enjoy my cardio activities.... especially the heavy bag class.

Gapwedge01

Good topic. I cycle mostly during the warmer months and log 350-500 miles a month with 2000 calorie burns per ride. However, this winter I started a strength training program lifting 3 times a week. Since I have not lifted during the warmer cycling season before I will have to make a decision on the amount of riding if I continue my lifting. I don't want to lose the LBM I have regained.

Sarauk2sf

One other thing to consider...and this is because I have seen the pics of the women you have as your goal..you could think about doing SL 2 x a week, a longer cardio session (like boxing) 1 x a week and then have the other day as a mix. Do iso/higher rep work for 30 - 40 minutes and do a higher intensity cardio type workout at the end for 20 minutes or so.

VelociMama

One other thing to consider...and this is because I have seen the pics of the women you have as your goal..you could think about doing SL 2 x a week, a longer cardio session (like boxing) 1 x a week and then have the other day as a mix. Do iso/higher rep work for 30 - 40 minutes and do a higher intensity cardio type workout at the end for 20 minutes or so.

What would be the benefit of doing higher rep work?

Also, I don't really expect to get to my goal physique for a long long time. I'd love to eventually, but I'm just not anywhere close.

Sarauk2sf

One other thing to consider...and this is because I have seen the pics of the women you have as your goal..you could think about doing SL 2 x a week, a longer cardio session (like boxing) 1 x a week and then have the other day as a mix. Do iso/higher rep work for 30 - 40 minutes and do a higher intensity cardio type workout at the end for 20 minutes or so.

What would be the benefit of doing higher rep work?

Also, I don't really expect to get to my goal physique for a long long time. I'd love to eventually, but I'm just not anywhere close.

Sorry - was not clear - in the hypertophy range and it would put slightly less strain on your CNS so a little less fatiguing (in theory).

a_vettestingray

Bumping.

I also love lifting; hate cardio (running, etc.). For work though, I have to maintain some semblance of cardio conditioning.

mustgetmuscles1

I just dont have reason to do much cardio. I can get the heart and lung benefits with short amounts of cardio and also from lifting. Calorie deficit by eating less/better. I am not training for any endurance/performance events.

Also the more cardio I do the better I get at it and the less benefit I get from it. IMO limiting it keeps the benefits, if that makes sense. When I first started over a year ago I would almost die going 7mph on the elliptical for 10 minutes. Now I can go flat out 12-14 mph for 20 minutes straight fairly easy. Not really burning much more than when I first started. To continue to get the calorie benefits I would need to go longer or add more resistance. Which is fine but I really have no reason. I would rather do sprints, complexes, calisthenics, plyometrics, circuits, HIIT or any other type of time efficient cardio.

I do 10-20 minutes of elliptical as a warm up before lifting 4-5 day a week. Thats it for gym exercises. I do go hiking and biking a lot though. Doing a sport or activity for cardio is awesome. Grinding away time on some machine or running is bad for my mental health. : )

psuLemon

It just depends what your goals are and what your preference is. I really stopped lifting to do an experiment on myself. I am doing Les Mills Combat for 60 days and then I will do 90 days of Tapout XT. They are about 75% HIIT training with 25% endurance lifting (low rep for 60-120 seconds intervals/ essentially interval lifting). Two reasons I chose to try this to see if it's an effective tool for fat loss/muscle retention and I am trying to give my wrist some break from lifting as my tendinitis was starting to flare up a bit too often and lastly but mainly to try something a bit different. After I complete both programs, I may go back to lifting but at that point, I know it will be like starting over. One thing I know HIIT isn't good at, is the ability to retain my strength that I built in previous programs. But my main goal is cutting to a low enough body fat to get abs.

The only type of cardio I have an issue with is steady state cardio/running. Unless you are training for a marathon or you just love to run, then it's not as effective as other method's to reach peoples goals. HIIT and weight training provide a much greater program is your goal is to retain muscle and look fit. Steady state will increase the chances of catabolizing lean body mass due to the deficit it can create which will make it harder to get the body you want. Outside of that, I think as long as you are doing a program you find interesting, it's a win/win situation. It's much easier for people to stay committed when they enjoy what they are doing.

Rayman79

This is a really interesting question, and finding the mix of cardio that is beneficial for muscle retention/building and fat loss is an interesting experiment.

Due to time constraints and a general lack of desire to do really long sessions of cardio I am currently doing tabata sessions on my non-lifting days. It takes a total of 15 mins including warmup, and is a killer! This will punish my lungs and has to be good for my CV fitness without (in theory) having any significant impact on my lifting routine. I also incorporate a couple of long walks each week, around 5k each - on my rest days.

Nataliaho

I think this article is a good read... not precisely what you were asking but food for thought nevertheless...

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/conditioning_is_a_sham&cr=

chris1816

Doop doop, bit of self promoting but I like sharing info:

http://www.theiflife.com/cardio-priority-fat-loss/

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/864211-why-f-ck-cardio

Sarauk2sf

This is a really interesting question, and finding the mix of cardio that is beneficial for muscle retention/building and fat loss is an interesting experiment.

Due to time constraints and a general lack of desire to do really long sessions of cardio I am currently doing tabata sessions on my non-lifting days. It takes a total of 15 mins including warmup, and is a killer! This will punish my lungs and has to be good for my CV fitness without (in theory) having any significant impact on my lifting routine. I also incorporate a couple of long walks each week, around 5k each - on my rest days.

To me, and I admit I have bias as I hate cardio, although not really, as I am too much of a lazy arsed bish to do this either, this, or some kind of HIIT'ish workout makes the most sense for those who are time constrained, and who do not have a specific endurance goal, from what I have seen and read. (Nice run on sentence there!)

NEAT, which I classify walking as, is often highly under-rated as well.

SideSteel

It seems most of the people I know here who are serious about lifting don't do any cardio (anything beyond low-impact workouts like walking or occasionally light jogging). There also seems to be a very anti-cardio mentality among some of these folks, and my question is why? Specifically, is it detrimental to do serious cardio training (intervals, HIIT, circuit training, etc.) when trying to preserve lean mass or increase strength? Obviously, people have preferences, but I'm asking more from a physiological standpoint than just a preference standpoint.

My point in asking is that I'm considering a more hybrid approach to my fitness program post-partum. What I did before was basically low-impact cardio (walking or leisurely cycling) combined with a modified Stronglifts program. I had a lot of success with this (lost over 30 lbs doing this combined with high protein diet and 250 calorie per day deficit - 1/2 lb per week average).

This time, however, I'm interested in getting not only stronger but also improving my overall fitness which includes cardiovascular fitness and flexibility/mobility work. I was doing Stronglifts 3x per week, and I'm thinking this time I'm going to add a day of cardio training and replace one of the Stronglifts workouts days with cardio training, so I'd be doing a 2/2 split during the week of weight training/cardio.

I'd love to get some feedback here if anyone has comments about this.

I'm 5'8" and will be starting at around 180 (assuming I end up close to my pre-baby weight post-delivery, which is very possible). My ultimate goal is to get down another approximately 35-40 lbs and take my body fat percentage down to <20% eventually.

Thanks in advance!

I have an opinion on this.

I think that the amount of cardio and type of cardio that you do should be dictated by your goals and your preferences.

If for example, your goal is body composition, and you have a high enough TDEE that you do not need to create additional energy expenditure in order to make nutritional ends meet (aside: very small women may actually be in a position that cardio is important) and say you don't really like cardio, then "fck cardio" is a perfectly fine motto to have and it's one that I believe in for my own situation.

It sounds to me like you have goals that are partially endurance based, and it sounds to me like you don't hate cardio. For both of these reasons I think it's perfectly acceptable for you to do some cardio in addition to your resistance training. For you, it seems to fit your goals and preferences.

I also think it's important, on some level, to quantify what constitutes "interference" in terms of development (note: I have not yet done this and it's something I should learn for when this question comes up). You may have heard that excessive cardio activity can impair recovery or interfere with hypertrophy. It's pretty easy to take this statement and make it into an all-or-nothing situation and conclude that you must avoid all cardio. I don't believe that, nor do I believe that this type of thinking is productive.

But to your original question about why people are so against it, I think it's a combination of factors. In no particular order:

1) Some bodybuilders now realize that they don't have to waste hours on a treadmill and they're probably overly excited and thus vocal about it.

2) Some people HATE cardio. I'm one of these people.

3) Depending on the goal of the trainee, cardio may not be necessary at all.

4) As mentioned above, I think it's really part of the all-or-nothing dogmatic approach that people may take. Knowing that X amount of cardio is counterproductive to a given population of trainees with a non cardio specific goal, they then take that and assume that ANY amount of cardio is therefore counterproductive to all people with all goals, and that's obviously just silliness.